Me and my employee could not agree on something. He said that for
forklift batteries, the charger has to exactly match the battery and
be special made to fit the battery.

I said, no, any proper voltage source with a timer, capable of proper
current to put the amps, should be enough.

We could not agree and I decided to ask here. Who is right?

Specifically, we bought a walkie stacker, older but fnuctionally
similar to this one: http://goo.gl/Lrrsz

We bought it for resale. It powers up and down, as well as forward and
back.

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.

i

Ignoramus8579 fired this volley in
:

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.

An automotive style charger rated to charge at about 50 amps should be
about right. I'd get the automatic "switch to float mode" type, if it
were mine. But for resale, ehh...

Thing about lead acid batteries is, their capacity tracks their weight
pretty closely. That weighs _about_ 5 times what a normal automotive
battery would, so it needs to be charged at about 5 times the amperage of
an ordinary automotive battery.

You can charge them more rapidly, but about C/10 to C/20 is nice and
gentle, and won't heat them like the faster chargers will.

Really big lead acid batteries do require special charging cycles to keep
their loooonnng plates de-sulfated and charging uniformly over their
whole area. So, for a real forklift battery (one of those 2300lb monster
batteries in the steel case), you really do need a special charger.

LLoyd

On 2012-05-12, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus8579 fired this volley in
:

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.

An automotive style charger rated to charge at about 50 amps should be
about right. I'd get the automatic "switch to float mode" type, if it
were mine. But for resale, ehh...

Thing about lead acid batteries is, their capacity tracks their weight
pretty closely. That weighs _about_ 5 times what a normal automotive
battery would, so it needs to be charged at about 5 times the amperage of
an ordinary automotive battery.

You can charge them more rapidly, but about C/10 to C/20 is nice and
gentle, and won't heat them like the faster chargers will.

Really big lead acid batteries do require special charging cycles to keep
their loooonnng plates de-sulfated and charging uniformly over their
whole area. So, for a real forklift battery (one of those 2300lb monster
batteries in the steel case), you really do need a special charger.

LLoyd

Lloyd, thanks, I get a little better picture.

i

"Ignoramus8579" wrote in message

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.
i

My automatic charger fails on older batteries that require increased
voltage to equalize one or more weak cells. I use a home-made manual
charger with a current meter and a Variac that efficiently adjusts
output voltage. Sometimes "12V" batteries need as much as 16V-17V to
fully charge all cells.

jsw

On Sat, 12 May 2012 20:06:28 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Fri, 11 May 2012 20:29:57 -0500, Ignoramus8579
wrote:

Me and my employee could not agree on something. He said that for
forklift batteries, the charger has to exactly match the battery and
be special made to fit the battery.

I said, no, any proper voltage source with a timer, capable of proper
current to put the amps, should be enough.

We could not agree and I decided to ask here. Who is right?

Specifically, we bought a walkie stacker, older but fnuctionally
similar to this one: http://goo.gl/Lrrsz

We bought it for resale. It powers up and down, as well as forward and
back.

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.

i

If your battery charger supplies enough power to charge the battery to
about 14 volts then it will work providing it is manually controlled.
If it is one of these modern automatic chargers then it probably needs
to know the capacity of the battery in Amp/hours.

Have a look at the Trojan web site for charging instructions as, while
it is a 12 volt battery, 12.5 volts is only about 50% charged.
Depends on the chemistry of the battery. Calcium augmented batteries
like the crappy Delco Freedom 2 batteries require a higher charge
voltage,with GM cars of the '70s having regulators set to 14.8 volts,
while older antimony augmented batteries ran at 14.6, and the newer
"hybric" batteries with calcium negative plates and antimony positive
plates are happier with a 14.3 volt setting.

I'm sure this has some effect also on the voltave vs state of charge
curve.

On Sat, 12 May 2012 10:34:48 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 12 May 2012 20:06:28 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Fri, 11 May 2012 20:29:57 -0500, Ignoramus8579
wrote:

Me and my employee could not agree on something. He said that for
forklift batteries, the charger has to exactly match the battery and
be special made to fit the battery.

I said, no, any proper voltage source with a timer, capable of proper
current to put the amps, should be enough.

We could not agree and I decided to ask here. Who is right?

Specifically, we bought a walkie stacker, older but fnuctionally
similar to this one: http://goo.gl/Lrrsz

We bought it for resale. It powers up and down, as well as forward and
back.

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.

i

If your battery charger supplies enough power to charge the battery to
about 14 volts then it will work providing it is manually controlled.
If it is one of these modern automatic chargers then it probably needs
to know the capacity of the battery in Amp/hours.

Have a look at the Trojan web site for charging instructions as, while
it is a 12 volt battery, 12.5 volts is only about 50% charged.
Depends on the chemistry of the battery. Calcium augmented batteries
like the crappy Delco Freedom 2 batteries require a higher charge
voltage,with GM cars of the '70s having regulators set to 14.8 volts,
while older antimony augmented batteries ran at 14.6, and the newer
"hybric" batteries with calcium negative plates and antimony positive
plates are happier with a 14.3 volt setting.

I'm sure this has some effect also on the voltave vs state of charge
curve.

Why are these huge prime-mover batteries 12 V? I'd think they would
use much higher voltage battery packs, like electric cars, and for the
same reasons.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress fired this volley in
:

Why are these huge prime-mover batteries 12 V? I'd think they would
use much higher voltage battery packs, like electric cars, and for the
same reasons.

Walkie-stackers aren't "huge", and neither are the batteries. They're
about the same size as a semi-tractor's batteries.

The bigger forklift batteries are typically 36V or 48V.

LLoyd

On Sat, 12 May 2012 10:08:44 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ed Huntress fired this volley in
:

Why are these huge prime-mover batteries 12 V? I'd think they would
use much higher voltage battery packs, like electric cars, and for the
same reasons.

Walkie-stackers aren't "huge", and neither are the batteries. They're
about the same size as a semi-tractor's batteries.

The bigger forklift batteries are typically 36V or 48V.

LLoyd

Oh, I had the impression they were talking about really big ones, and
probably a lot of wattage for the motors.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2012-05-12, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ed Huntress fired this volley in
:

Why are these huge prime-mover batteries 12 V? I'd think they would
use much higher voltage battery packs, like electric cars, and for the
same reasons.

Walkie-stackers aren't "huge", and neither are the batteries. They're
about the same size as a semi-tractor's batteries.

The bigger forklift batteries are typically 36V or 48V.

LLoyd

Yes, this is a 6 cell, 12v battery. It is not huge, but it is not
super small either, in a steel case. I am guessing weighs 300+ lbs.

I am at work right now and I am charging the battery at 14.3 volts
from a voltage source.

i

On 2012-05-12, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Ignoramus8579" wrote in message

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.
i

My automatic charger fails on older batteries that require increased
voltage to equalize one or more weak cells. I use a home-made manual
charger with a current meter and a Variac that efficiently adjusts
output voltage. Sometimes "12V" batteries need as much as 16V-17V to
fully charge all cells.

jsw



I have a variable voltage source (military battery charger)

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/PP-1...-Power-Supply/

So, what you are suggesting, is kind of like this

1) Charge it at 14.3 volts until current falls off.
2) At the end of the charge, increase the voltage to 16v and charge
some more, like 30 min.

Right?

i

In article ,
Ignoramus29935 wrote:

On 2012-05-12, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Ignoramus8579" wrote in message

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.
i

My automatic charger fails on older batteries that require increased
voltage to equalize one or more weak cells. I use a home-made manual
charger with a current meter and a Variac that efficiently adjusts
output voltage. Sometimes "12V" batteries need as much as 16V-17V to
fully charge all cells.

jsw



I have a variable voltage source (military battery charger)

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/PP-1...-Power-Supply/

So, what you are suggesting, is kind of like this

1) Charge it at 14.3 volts until current falls off.
2) At the end of the charge, increase the voltage to 16v and charge
some more, like 30 min.

In general, for wet lead-acid batteries, but I bet the battery maker has
a datasheet and app note, for free.

Forklift makers often also have such data.

Then there is a bible:
http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Of-Batteries-David-Linden/dp/0071359788.
University libraries usually have this.

Joe Gwinn

"Ignoramus8579" wrote in message
...

Me and my employee could not agree on something. He said that for
forklift batteries, the charger has to exactly match the battery and
be special made to fit the battery.

I said, no, any proper voltage source with a timer, capable of proper
current to put the amps, should be enough.

We could not agree and I decided to ask here. Who is right?

Specifically, we bought a walkie stacker, older but fnuctionally
similar to this one: http://goo.gl/Lrrsz

We bought it for resale. It powers up and down, as well as forward and
back.

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.

i

Is this a single 12V battery or multiple 12V batteries connected in series?

If it works with 12V then an automotive battery charger should be good, the
more amps, the faster it will be able to charge (to a point, I wouldn't
recommend trying to charge it in 15 minutes from your welder).

Notice for automotive batteries you can buy chargers from a couple of amps
to many amps. An automotive 15A charger should work but might take a couple
of days to fully charge, a 50 amp charger might charge it in less than 1/3rd
(15/50ths) of that time. The smart chargers with maintainers will charge up
to a higher voltage and then let the voltage drop to a maintenance level to
prevent overcharging.

A good source for information is the Battery Tender website. The charge to
voltage is temperature dependent too.

RogerN

On Sat, 12 May 2012 10:39:03 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 12 May 2012 10:34:48 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 12 May 2012 20:06:28 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Fri, 11 May 2012 20:29:57 -0500, Ignoramus8579
wrote:

Me and my employee could not agree on something. He said that for
forklift batteries, the charger has to exactly match the battery and
be special made to fit the battery.

I said, no, any proper voltage source with a timer, capable of proper
current to put the amps, should be enough.

We could not agree and I decided to ask here. Who is right?

Specifically, we bought a walkie stacker, older but fnuctionally
similar to this one: http://goo.gl/Lrrsz

We bought it for resale. It powers up and down, as well as forward and
back.

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.

i

If your battery charger supplies enough power to charge the battery to
about 14 volts then it will work providing it is manually controlled.
If it is one of these modern automatic chargers then it probably needs
to know the capacity of the battery in Amp/hours.

Have a look at the Trojan web site for charging instructions as, while
it is a 12 volt battery, 12.5 volts is only about 50% charged.
Depends on the chemistry of the battery. Calcium augmented batteries
like the crappy Delco Freedom 2 batteries require a higher charge
voltage,with GM cars of the '70s having regulators set to 14.8 volts,
while older antimony augmented batteries ran at 14.6, and the newer
"hybric" batteries with calcium negative plates and antimony positive
plates are happier with a 14.3 volt setting.

I'm sure this has some effect also on the voltave vs state of charge
curve.

Why are these huge prime-mover batteries 12 V? I'd think they would
use much higher voltage battery packs, like electric cars, and for the
same reasons.
Who's talking about "huge prime mover batteries"? I'm not talking
batteries for hybrid vehicles - just hybrid lead acid batteries.

On Sat, 12 May 2012 10:08:44 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ed Huntress fired this volley in
:

Why are these huge prime-mover batteries 12 V? I'd think they would
use much higher voltage battery packs, like electric cars, and for the
same reasons.

Walkie-stackers aren't "huge", and neither are the batteries. They're
about the same size as a semi-tractor's batteries.

The bigger forklift batteries are typically 36V or 48V.
Or 60, 72, 0r 96

LLoyd

On Sat, 12 May 2012 17:02:51 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 12 May 2012 10:39:03 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 12 May 2012 10:34:48 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 12 May 2012 20:06:28 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Fri, 11 May 2012 20:29:57 -0500, Ignoramus8579
wrote:

Me and my employee could not agree on something. He said that for
forklift batteries, the charger has to exactly match the battery and
be special made to fit the battery.

I said, no, any proper voltage source with a timer, capable of proper
current to put the amps, should be enough.

We could not agree and I decided to ask here. Who is right?

Specifically, we bought a walkie stacker, older but fnuctionally
similar to this one: http://goo.gl/Lrrsz

We bought it for resale. It powers up and down, as well as forward and
back.

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.

i

If your battery charger supplies enough power to charge the battery to
about 14 volts then it will work providing it is manually controlled.
If it is one of these modern automatic chargers then it probably needs
to know the capacity of the battery in Amp/hours.

Have a look at the Trojan web site for charging instructions as, while
it is a 12 volt battery, 12.5 volts is only about 50% charged.
Depends on the chemistry of the battery. Calcium augmented batteries
like the crappy Delco Freedom 2 batteries require a higher charge
voltage,with GM cars of the '70s having regulators set to 14.8 volts,
while older antimony augmented batteries ran at 14.6, and the newer
"hybric" batteries with calcium negative plates and antimony positive
plates are happier with a 14.3 volt setting.

I'm sure this has some effect also on the voltave vs state of charge
curve.

Why are these huge prime-mover batteries 12 V? I'd think they would
use much higher voltage battery packs, like electric cars, and for the
same reasons.
Who's talking about "huge prime mover batteries"? I'm not talking
batteries for hybrid vehicles - just hybrid lead acid batteries.

I didn't read the thread carefully, not having a forklift, but I saw
Lloyd mention 2300-lb. batteries "for real forklifts." And the
discussion was about 12 V batteries. So I was curious.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ignoramus29935" wrote in
message ...
On 2012-05-12, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Ignoramus8579" wrote in
message

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.
i

My automatic charger fails on older batteries that require
increased
voltage to equalize one or more weak cells. I use a home-made
manual
charger with a current meter and a Variac that efficiently adjusts
output voltage. Sometimes "12V" batteries need as much as 16V-17V
to
fully charge all cells.

jsw



I have a variable voltage source (military battery charger)

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/PP-1...-Power-Supply/

So, what you are suggesting, is kind of like this

1) Charge it at 14.3 volts until current falls off.
2) At the end of the charge, increase the voltage to 16v and charge
some more, like 30 min.

Right?

i

I follow these general rules:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...d_acid_battery

and the temperature compensation chart he
http://www.batteryfaq.org/

If the cell caps come off I charge until all are bubbling, which may
take 14.8V. Higher voltages force current into weak high-impedance
cells and sometimes restore or "equalize" them, sometimes not. I added
three more years to the life of the dead battery that came with my
tractor that way.

Battery makers don't quite agree on the details but I don't think a
tenth of a volt difference matters much for short-term charging.

What do you think of the skill level the manual assumes for the Army
repairman? That was the sort of equipment I was expected to fix
without ever having seen it before, along with trucks, Teletypes,
modems and IBM card readers.

jsw

On Sat, 12 May 2012 17:06:21 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 12 May 2012 17:02:51 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 12 May 2012 10:39:03 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 12 May 2012 10:34:48 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 12 May 2012 20:06:28 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Fri, 11 May 2012 20:29:57 -0500, Ignoramus8579
wrote:

Me and my employee could not agree on something. He said that for
forklift batteries, the charger has to exactly match the battery and
be special made to fit the battery.

I said, no, any proper voltage source with a timer, capable of proper
current to put the amps, should be enough.

We could not agree and I decided to ask here. Who is right?

Specifically, we bought a walkie stacker, older but fnuctionally
similar to this one: http://goo.gl/Lrrsz

We bought it for resale. It powers up and down, as well as forward and
back.

The stacker comes with a weakened battery, and without a battery
charger. The previous owner charger it with a "car charger". I am
wondering, what should one get to charge this one. It has a 12v
Deka battery that weights, perhaps, 300 lbs.

i

If your battery charger supplies enough power to charge the battery to
about 14 volts then it will work providing it is manually controlled.
If it is one of these modern automatic chargers then it probably needs
to know the capacity of the battery in Amp/hours.

Have a look at the Trojan web site for charging instructions as, while
it is a 12 volt battery, 12.5 volts is only about 50% charged.
Depends on the chemistry of the battery. Calcium augmented batteries
like the crappy Delco Freedom 2 batteries require a higher charge
voltage,with GM cars of the '70s having regulators set to 14.8 volts,
while older antimony augmented batteries ran at 14.6, and the newer
"hybric" batteries with calcium negative plates and antimony positive
plates are happier with a 14.3 volt setting.

I'm sure this has some effect also on the voltave vs state of charge
curve.

Why are these huge prime-mover batteries 12 V? I'd think they would
use much higher voltage battery packs, like electric cars, and for the
same reasons.
Who's talking about "huge prime mover batteries"? I'm not talking
batteries for hybrid vehicles - just hybrid lead acid batteries.

I didn't read the thread carefully, not having a forklift, but I saw
Lloyd mention 2300-lb. batteries "for real forklifts." And the
discussion was about 12 V batteries. So I was curious.
And I thought you were replying to my "hybrid bvatteries"

The bigger forklift batteries are typically 36V or 48V.
Or 60, 72, 0r 96

Depends on how you define the term "battery"...

The battery may be any such voltage, but said battery is built from
many cells; and those may well be bundled into groups of 3 or 6.
Each bundle is ~6 or ~12 volts...

There are 28V trucks, with two 12V {well 13.8v} batteries in series.


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On Sun, 13 May 2012 14:30:38 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:



The bigger forklift batteries are typically 36V or 48V.
Or 60, 72, 0r 96

Depends on how you define the term "battery"...

The battery may be any such voltage, but said battery is built from
many cells; and those may well be bundled into groups of 3 or 6.
Each bundle is ~6 or ~12 volts...

There are 28V trucks, with two 12V {well 13.8v} batteries in series.
Each "bundle" is a battery - and the "whole battery" is a "battery
of batteries" instead of a "battery of cells"