I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

Ignoramus6107 wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

I'd recommend tracking down one of the "rent our truck for your CDL
test" places that has a semi with one of the automatic (really
semi-automatic) transmissions for your road test. They will have the
proper insurance for everything and having the auto truck will make
things less stressful as well as giving you more points available to
potentially miss on the test and still pass. You can't grind gears (or
run over curbs) on the test, but once you have your license you can
grind the gears on your truck all you want (and everyone runs over curbs
it seems). The test truck rental places also know the test routes and
will guide you through the actual test route for practice before you
take the test. It's well worth the $500 or so they typically charge for
what is typically half a day of their truck and driver's time.

On 2012-03-02, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus6107 wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

I'd recommend tracking down one of the "rent our truck for your CDL
test" places that has a semi with one of the automatic (really
semi-automatic) transmissions for your road test. They will have the
proper insurance for everything and having the auto truck will make
things less stressful as well as giving you more points available to
potentially miss on the test and still pass. You can't grind gears (or
run over curbs) on the test, but once you have your license you can
grind the gears on your truck all you want (and everyone runs over curbs
it seems). The test truck rental places also know the test routes and
will guide you through the actual test route for practice before you
take the test. It's well worth the $500 or so they typically charge for
what is typically half a day of their truck and driver's time.

Pete, what are those semi-automatic transmissions, exactly?

I do agree with you, as a matter of fact, about renting something like
that.

i

Ignoramus22470 wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus6107 wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

I'd recommend tracking down one of the "rent our truck for your CDL
test" places that has a semi with one of the automatic (really
semi-automatic) transmissions for your road test. They will have the
proper insurance for everything and having the auto truck will make
things less stressful as well as giving you more points available to
potentially miss on the test and still pass. You can't grind gears (or
run over curbs) on the test, but once you have your license you can
grind the gears on your truck all you want (and everyone runs over curbs
it seems). The test truck rental places also know the test routes and
will guide you through the actual test route for practice before you
take the test. It's well worth the $500 or so they typically charge for
what is typically half a day of their truck and driver's time.

Pete, what are those semi-automatic transmissions, exactly?

I do agree with you, as a matter of fact, about renting something like
that.

i

I only have direct knowledge of the Eaton that was on the Kenworth T2000
I tested on, but essentially they are a regular manual semi transmission
(like 14+ gears) that is under computer control.

There is a clutch that you use when starting and stopping the truck, but
outside of that the computer handles the shifting. There is a
transmission shift that looks a bit like an automatic, but has no PARK
mode and has up/down buttons on the handle as well. Park is handled with
the normal air brake controls which is why there is no PARK on the
shift.

Basically you press in the clutch and shift the lever to D (drive). The
computer will clunk the transmission into gear for you (normally second
gear) and you start moving with the clutch and accelerator like normal.
After you have let the clutch out you just forget about it until you are
coming to a stop. The computer will cut power (electronic throttle) and
power shift for you as you accelerate. There is a display that shows the
current gear it's in. The up down buttons on the shift lever can be used
to force it up or down much like some "sport" cars with automatics.

When you are coming to a stop you brake normally and let the computer
downshift for you as you slow down. When it is down to low gear (second)
you finally push in the clutch as you come to a stop and hold the clutch
down as normal if waiting at a light, or if you are parking you shift to
N (neutral) and set your air brake park control.

They are really quite nice and remove that extra bit of distraction
while trying to merge into traffic on an entrance or exit ramp.
Certainly after you have been driving a manual for a few years that
isn't much distraction, but it is still some and certainly more for new
drivers. From what I read the autos are becoming more common in the big
fleets too.

Ignoramus22470 wrote:
On 2012-03-02, Pete C. wrote:
Ignoramus6107 wrote:
I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i
I'd recommend tracking down one of the "rent our truck for your CDL
test" places that has a semi with one of the automatic (really
semi-automatic) transmissions for your road test. They will have the
proper insurance for everything and having the auto truck will make
things less stressful as well as giving you more points available to
potentially miss on the test and still pass. You can't grind gears (or
run over curbs) on the test, but once you have your license you can
grind the gears on your truck all you want (and everyone runs over curbs
it seems). The test truck rental places also know the test routes and
will guide you through the actual test route for practice before you
take the test. It's well worth the $500 or so they typically charge for
what is typically half a day of their truck and driver's time.

Pete, what are those semi-automatic transmissions, exactly?

I do agree with you, as a matter of fact, about renting something like
that.

i

Just check VERY carefully. Many states put restrictions on for various
items (glasses, hand controls and such) I know one of those used to be
Automatic transmission ONLY. IE if you couldn't drive a stick you got a
restriction saying that you could only drive automatics.

--
Steve W.

On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.

Karl

On 2012-03-02, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus22470 wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus6107 wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

I'd recommend tracking down one of the "rent our truck for your CDL
test" places that has a semi with one of the automatic (really
semi-automatic) transmissions for your road test. They will have the
proper insurance for everything and having the auto truck will make
things less stressful as well as giving you more points available to
potentially miss on the test and still pass. You can't grind gears (or
run over curbs) on the test, but once you have your license you can
grind the gears on your truck all you want (and everyone runs over curbs
it seems). The test truck rental places also know the test routes and
will guide you through the actual test route for practice before you
take the test. It's well worth the $500 or so they typically charge for
what is typically half a day of their truck and driver's time.

Pete, what are those semi-automatic transmissions, exactly?

I do agree with you, as a matter of fact, about renting something like
that.

i

I only have direct knowledge of the Eaton that was on the Kenworth T2000
I tested on, but essentially they are a regular manual semi transmission
(like 14+ gears) that is under computer control.

There is a clutch that you use when starting and stopping the truck, but
outside of that the computer handles the shifting. There is a
transmission shift that looks a bit like an automatic, but has no PARK
mode and has up/down buttons on the handle as well. Park is handled with
the normal air brake controls which is why there is no PARK on the
shift.

Basically you press in the clutch and shift the lever to D (drive). The
computer will clunk the transmission into gear for you (normally second
gear) and you start moving with the clutch and accelerator like normal.
After you have let the clutch out you just forget about it until you are
coming to a stop. The computer will cut power (electronic throttle) and
power shift for you as you accelerate. There is a display that shows the
current gear it's in. The up down buttons on the shift lever can be used
to force it up or down much like some "sport" cars with automatics.

When you are coming to a stop you brake normally and let the computer
downshift for you as you slow down. When it is down to low gear (second)
you finally push in the clutch as you come to a stop and hold the clutch
down as normal if waiting at a light, or if you are parking you shift to
N (neutral) and set your air brake park control.

They are really quite nice and remove that extra bit of distraction
while trying to merge into traffic on an entrance or exit ramp.
Certainly after you have been driving a manual for a few years that
isn't much distraction, but it is still some and certainly more for new
drivers. From what I read the autos are becoming more common in the big
fleets too.

Just about time, I would say. Thanks for a great explanation.

i

On 2012-03-02, Steve W. wrote:
Ignoramus22470 wrote:
On 2012-03-02, Pete C. wrote:
Ignoramus6107 wrote:
I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i
I'd recommend tracking down one of the "rent our truck for your CDL
test" places that has a semi with one of the automatic (really
semi-automatic) transmissions for your road test. They will have the
proper insurance for everything and having the auto truck will make
things less stressful as well as giving you more points available to
potentially miss on the test and still pass. You can't grind gears (or
run over curbs) on the test, but once you have your license you can
grind the gears on your truck all you want (and everyone runs over curbs
it seems). The test truck rental places also know the test routes and
will guide you through the actual test route for practice before you
take the test. It's well worth the $500 or so they typically charge for
what is typically half a day of their truck and driver's time.

Pete, what are those semi-automatic transmissions, exactly?

I do agree with you, as a matter of fact, about renting something like
that.

i

Just check VERY carefully. Many states put restrictions on for various
items (glasses, hand controls and such) I know one of those used to be
Automatic transmission ONLY. IE if you couldn't drive a stick you got a
restriction saying that you could only drive automatics.


As far as I know, it only applies to air brakes.

i

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.


I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.


I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i

Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

Karl

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 22:19:17 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:
On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.

I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

And the same lesson will kill you in a car, too. I ALWAYS downshift
one notch on hills and stay off the brakes as much as possible, even
if I'm not overloaded or towing and the brakes are minty-fresh.

You have to keep the brakes cool enough to get stopped when you need
to. If you were riding them down the hill to scrub off speed there
may not be enough reserve brake power left to get stopped before they
heat-fade into nothing-ness - then you are well and truly screwed.

Young dumb kid in a 1962 International Scout 4X4 (maybe a half-ton)
with the 152-CID Four and the stock Girling drum brakes towing WAY too
much unbraked trailer over a moderate canyon grade - Malibu Canyon
from US-101 to Pacific Coast Highway.

Got way dicey getting it stopped going down the hill, and that's with
pulling over several times for the brakes to cool down after I could
feel them fading away - more than once with Both Feet mashing that one
poor little pedal Fred Flintstone style.

Couldn't get enough engine braking out of it in Second without
grenading the engine, and I had a line of honking cars behind me when
I tried it in First. And that was the flattest route to the beach.

The trip home was after dark and traffic was lighter. First gear all
the way down the backside and SCREW 'EM - Honk all you want, I'm
getting this rig back to the barn in one piece and Never Again. I'll
hug the shoulder, you go around.

If I'd have tried that same trick on Kanan Road (and this was long
before they put in the Runaway Truck gravel pit in the median) there
wouldn't be any graceful recovery - I'd have been a splat on the
Hillside at the Tee intersection with Pacific Coast Hwy...

.... For about two seconds max, then *(if by some miracle I made it
across the intersection unscathed the first time) I'd get T-Boned by
the 4-lane 55-MPH through traffic on PCH. If one didn't kill ya, the
other one certainly would.

-- Bruce --

On 2012-03-03, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.


I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i

Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

Karl


Karl, I am aware of this, yes. I think that proper brakes are enough
to slow down downhill and to switch to low gear, but I am aware of the
brake fade phenomenon.

I am studying that stuff and will take theoretical CDL exam as soon as
practicable.

I will use this dump truck and the 15k trailer, in lieu of a bigger
semi tractor/trailer setup, since I already have this dump truck and a
15k trailer, and do not yet have a suitable semi trailer.

i

i

Ignoramus20398 wrote:

On 2012-03-03, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.


I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i

Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

Karl


Karl, I am aware of this, yes. I think that proper brakes are enough
to slow down downhill and to switch to low gear, but I am aware of the
brake fade phenomenon.

The problem is not the brake fade, the problem is if you do not do your
downshift before you go over the crest of the hill, you have very poor
odds of being able to successfully complete the downshift on the
downgrade. What happens is you get it out of gear and then you are
unable to get it into the lower gear and often you can't get it back
into the previous gear as well. This leaves you on a downgrade in
neutral with *no* engine braking at all and your service brakes won't do
the job. It's runaway truck ramp time if you are lucky enough to find
one.

On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus20398 wrote:

On 2012-03-03, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.


I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i

Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

Karl


Karl, I am aware of this, yes. I think that proper brakes are enough
to slow down downhill and to switch to low gear, but I am aware of the
brake fade phenomenon.

The problem is not the brake fade, the problem is if you do not do your
downshift before you go over the crest of the hill, you have very poor
odds of being able to successfully complete the downshift on the
downgrade. What happens is you get it out of gear and then you are
unable to get it into the lower gear and often you can't get it back
into the previous gear as well. This leaves you on a downgrade in
neutral with *no* engine braking at all and your service brakes won't do
the job. It's runaway truck ramp time if you are lucky enough to find
one.

OK, I will bite, why would the service brakes not do the job and stop
the truck, at least once?

i

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 22:28:29 -0600, Ignoramus20398
wrote:

On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus20398 wrote:

On 2012-03-03, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.


I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i

Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

Karl


Karl, I am aware of this, yes. I think that proper brakes are enough
to slow down downhill and to switch to low gear, but I am aware of the
brake fade phenomenon.

The problem is not the brake fade, the problem is if you do not do your
downshift before you go over the crest of the hill, you have very poor
odds of being able to successfully complete the downshift on the
downgrade. What happens is you get it out of gear and then you are
unable to get it into the lower gear and often you can't get it back
into the previous gear as well. This leaves you on a downgrade in
neutral with *no* engine braking at all and your service brakes won't do
the job. It's runaway truck ramp time if you are lucky enough to find
one.

OK, I will bite, why would the service brakes not do the job and stop
the truck, at least once?

i
They MIGHT - under ideal conditions - if applied and held. Let off
once and re-apply and all bets are off. Are you willing to take the
chance????? Engine compression braking - and better yet a Jake or
exhaust brake, are the much safer "bet".

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 22:28:29 -0600, Ignoramus20398
wrote:

On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus20398 wrote:

On 2012-03-03, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.


I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i

Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

Karl


Karl, I am aware of this, yes. I think that proper brakes are enough
to slow down downhill and to switch to low gear, but I am aware of the
brake fade phenomenon.

The problem is not the brake fade, the problem is if you do not do your
downshift before you go over the crest of the hill, you have very poor
odds of being able to successfully complete the downshift on the
downgrade. What happens is you get it out of gear and then you are
unable to get it into the lower gear and often you can't get it back
into the previous gear as well. This leaves you on a downgrade in
neutral with *no* engine braking at all and your service brakes won't do
the job. It's runaway truck ramp time if you are lucky enough to find
one.

OK, I will bite, why would the service brakes not do the job and stop
the truck, at least once?

i

Of course they will stop the truck when they are cold. The problem
arises when you use them on a long hill to control speed, rather then
the engine. In a surprisingly short time the brakes get hot and
braking efficiency drops, amazingly.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2012-03-04, wrote:
On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 22:28:29 -0600, Ignoramus20398
wrote:

On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus20398 wrote:

On 2012-03-03, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.


I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i

Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

Karl


Karl, I am aware of this, yes. I think that proper brakes are enough
to slow down downhill and to switch to low gear, but I am aware of the
brake fade phenomenon.

The problem is not the brake fade, the problem is if you do not do your
downshift before you go over the crest of the hill, you have very poor
odds of being able to successfully complete the downshift on the
downgrade. What happens is you get it out of gear and then you are
unable to get it into the lower gear and often you can't get it back
into the previous gear as well. This leaves you on a downgrade in
neutral with *no* engine braking at all and your service brakes won't do
the job. It's runaway truck ramp time if you are lucky enough to find
one.

OK, I will bite, why would the service brakes not do the job and stop
the truck, at least once?

i
They MIGHT - under ideal conditions - if applied and held. Let off
once and re-apply and all bets are off. Are you willing to take the
chance????? Engine compression braking - and better yet a Jake or
exhaust brake, are the much safer "bet".

I do not think that I have a Jake brake. Thanks. What you say makes
sense.

i

Ignoramus20398 wrote:
On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:
Ignoramus20398 wrote:
On 2012-03-03, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i
You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.

I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i
Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

Karl

Karl, I am aware of this, yes. I think that proper brakes are enough
to slow down downhill and to switch to low gear, but I am aware of the
brake fade phenomenon.
The problem is not the brake fade, the problem is if you do not do your
downshift before you go over the crest of the hill, you have very poor
odds of being able to successfully complete the downshift on the
downgrade. What happens is you get it out of gear and then you are
unable to get it into the lower gear and often you can't get it back
into the previous gear as well. This leaves you on a downgrade in
neutral with *no* engine braking at all and your service brakes won't do
the job. It's runaway truck ramp time if you are lucky enough to find
one.

OK, I will bite, why would the service brakes not do the job and stop
the truck, at least once?

i

Mainly because by the time you realize that your NEVER going to get back
into gear you have already stabbed the brakes a half dozen times trying
to slow down and they are now HOT.
If they were stone cold when you hit them they would probably stop you
once, they would likely burn up from the heat and maybe set your rig on
fire but they would stop you.
When they are HOT, you may as well head for the wall/bank/run off ramp.
They lose a LOT of braking power once they heat up and start out gassing
then they start glazing over then it's game over. Glazed brakes are
about as effective at stopping as a block of jelly is at stopping a
chainsaw.

--
Steve W.

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 22:28:29 -0600, Ignoramus20398
wrote:

On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus20398 wrote:

On 2012-03-03, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.


I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i

Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

Karl


Karl, I am aware of this, yes. I think that proper brakes are enough
to slow down downhill and to switch to low gear, but I am aware of the
brake fade phenomenon.

The problem is not the brake fade, the problem is if you do not do your
downshift before you go over the crest of the hill, you have very poor
odds of being able to successfully complete the downshift on the
downgrade. What happens is you get it out of gear and then you are
unable to get it into the lower gear and often you can't get it back
into the previous gear as well. This leaves you on a downgrade in
neutral with *no* engine braking at all and your service brakes won't do
the job. It's runaway truck ramp time if you are lucky enough to find
one.

OK, I will bite, why would the service brakes not do the job and stop
the truck, at least once?

With an unloaded truck, they probably would.
With a semi-loaded truck, they might.
With a fully-loaded truck, they would burn up in the process.
Think power-to-weight ratio. The weight requires so much force to be
put on the shoes/drums that they can't release the heat in time to
work effectively.

First you experience brake fade, where it takes more and more force on
the pedal to slow you down. Then you feel as if you've lost the brakes
altogether. About this time, you usually see smoke coming from your
axles and you occasionally lose a tire to bursting from the heat
generated by the brakes, transmitted through the wheels. (Retreads are
the quickest to do this, and I've seen/heard dozens pop on I-5 where
I'm living now, on a mild downgrade!) Then you see actual flames
coming from the axles, where the brake shoes have caught fire inside
the drums. I've seen all of this on the road, which I'm sure many
will now attest to. My buddy Phil has been driving portable TV
stations around to the sports events and has told me some real WOW!
stories. He survived losing his brakes; his truck (tractor) didn't.

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

Ignoramus20398 wrote:

On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus20398 wrote:

On 2012-03-03, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.


I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i

Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

Karl


Karl, I am aware of this, yes. I think that proper brakes are enough
to slow down downhill and to switch to low gear, but I am aware of the
brake fade phenomenon.

The problem is not the brake fade, the problem is if you do not do your
downshift before you go over the crest of the hill, you have very poor
odds of being able to successfully complete the downshift on the
downgrade. What happens is you get it out of gear and then you are
unable to get it into the lower gear and often you can't get it back
into the previous gear as well. This leaves you on a downgrade in
neutral with *no* engine braking at all and your service brakes won't do
the job. It's runaway truck ramp time if you are lucky enough to find
one.

OK, I will bite, why would the service brakes not do the job and stop
the truck, at least once?

i

They might... if you have not picked up too much speed before you
realize you are in deep doo-doo and you apply them solidly in one
emergency stop.

On 3/3/2012 10:28 PM, Ignoramus20398 wrote:
....

OK, I will bite, why would the service brakes not do the job and stop
the truck, at least once?

All depends on how heavily loaded, how steep a grade and what head of
steam you've gotten built up before you try as well as how good your
brakes actually are...

I spent 30+ years down that way and have never gone over I40 east from
K-town heading to Raleigh w/o either seeing a rig still sitting in one
of the runaway ramps or at the least very recent tracks--seems many of
those guys just don't get that it's steeper coming down those "little"
hills in the Smokies than it was where they came across the Rockies or
Sierra-Nevadas.

--

Gunner Asch wrote:

"he multi-vehicle collision on Interstate 5 began when an 18-wheeler was
traveling through a tunnel. As the driver traveled at more than 65 mph,
the truck jackknifed, crashing into a wall. Vehicles behind the truck
were able to slow down and avoid hitting the 18-wheeler. Further down
the tunnel, however, other big rigs, pickup trucks, and cars were not as
lucky. Several vehicles crashed into one another and fuel from large
trucks set off a raging fire. Motorists were forced to abandon their
cars and run for safety. The tunnel instantly became an inferno, killing
3 people. One was a 6-year-old boy who managed to survive the crash, but
burned to death. In all, the accident included 33 trucks, 26 of which
were consumed by flames."


This is why licensing is more stringent for big rigs. In a normal car or
pickup there is a limit to the amount of collateral damage you can do,
in an 80,000# semi with 150+ gal of diesel and who knows what cargo on
board the potential casualties are substantially greater.

"Pete C." wrote:

This is why licensing is more stringent for big rigs. In a normal car or
pickup there is a limit to the amount of collateral damage you can do,
in an 80,000# semi with 150+ gal of diesel and who knows what cargo on
board the potential casualties are substantially greater.


You should see what happens when some idiot in a car runs a stopsign
and hits a tanker full of JP4.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

"he multi-vehicle collision on Interstate 5 began when an 18-wheeler was
traveling through a tunnel. As the driver traveled at more than 65 mph,
the truck jackknifed, crashing into a wall. Vehicles behind the truck
were able to slow down and avoid hitting the 18-wheeler. Further down
the tunnel, however, other big rigs, pickup trucks, and cars were not as
lucky. Several vehicles crashed into one another and fuel from large
trucks set off a raging fire. Motorists were forced to abandon their
cars and run for safety. The tunnel instantly became an inferno, killing
3 people. One was a 6-year-old boy who managed to survive the crash, but
burned to death. In all, the accident included 33 trucks, 26 of which
were consumed by flames."


This is why licensing is more stringent for big rigs. In a normal car or
pickup there is a limit to the amount of collateral damage you can do,
in an 80,000# semi with 150+ gal of diesel and who knows what cargo on
board the potential casualties are substantially greater.

I think that my truck may have 200 gallons fuel capacity.

i

On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus20398 wrote:

On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus20398 wrote:

On 2012-03-03, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.


I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i

Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

Karl


Karl, I am aware of this, yes. I think that proper brakes are enough
to slow down downhill and to switch to low gear, but I am aware of the
brake fade phenomenon.

The problem is not the brake fade, the problem is if you do not do your
downshift before you go over the crest of the hill, you have very poor
odds of being able to successfully complete the downshift on the
downgrade. What happens is you get it out of gear and then you are
unable to get it into the lower gear and often you can't get it back
into the previous gear as well. This leaves you on a downgrade in
neutral with *no* engine braking at all and your service brakes won't do
the job. It's runaway truck ramp time if you are lucky enough to find
one.

OK, I will bite, why would the service brakes not do the job and stop
the truck, at least once?

i

They might... if you have not picked up too much speed before you
realize you are in deep doo-doo and you apply them solidly in one
emergency stop.

OK, I think that I get the picture.

I now know one honest mobile truck mechanic (!), he will look and
adjust all my brakes, making whatever repairs may be necessary.

i

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 14:02:21 -0600, Ignoramus28705
wrote:

On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus20398 wrote:

On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:

The problem is not the brake fade, the problem is if you do not do your
downshift before you go over the crest of the hill, you have very poor
odds of being able to successfully complete the downshift on the
downgrade. What happens is you get it out of gear and then you are
unable to get it into the lower gear and often you can't get it back
into the previous gear as well. This leaves you on a downgrade in
neutral with *no* engine braking at all and your service brakes won't do
the job. It's runaway truck ramp time if you are lucky enough to find
one.

OK, I will bite, why would the service brakes not do the job and stop
the truck, at least once?

i

They might... if you have not picked up too much speed before you
realize you are in deep doo-doo and you apply them solidly in one
emergency stop.

OK, I think that I get the picture.

I now know one honest mobile truck mechanic (!), he will look and
adjust all my brakes, making whatever repairs may be necessary.

And he should be able to teach you the right way to treat them,
because he's the one that sees what people do wrong. If you ride the
brakes and pre-heat them, you might not even get the one full stop out
of them on a steep hill.

It's all in heat buildup and transfer - You can get that one good stop
out of the brakes because they were cold - but when you are done, the
drums and shoes (or front discs and pads if you've got them) are
pushing 500F to 700F - dull red hot to Bright red hot.

Look at today's NASCAR racing on TV, Darlington chews up brakes.
Beautiful In-Car-Camera shots of glowing red rotors through the wheel
spoke holes. And they already had a pileup from a driver losing the
front brakes,the rears locked up, and he pirouetted and backed it into
the wall HARD.

Once you release the brake pedal the drums start cooling slowly, but
the shoes are now sealed up inside the drum and backing plate, and
they release heat really even slower - and worse, starts radiating the
heat into the hubs and wheel bearings and wheels. The tires catch on
fire if the wheels get too hot, and the grease in the bearings too.

And above maybe 800F the friction materials of the shoes starts
glazing over and losing it's stopping abilities.

Get them REALLY hot (I'll guess over 1000 - 1200F) and the glue
bonding the lining to the shoe can fail and then you're truly screwed.
But this is mostly cars that have bonded linings, trucks usually use
riveted shoes.

If you can do it, ask the mechanic about converting the dump truck
and/or the Semi Tractor over to Air or Air/Hydraulic Disc Brakes -
they make them for all positions, but even the front axles would be a
great help. It's a good sized chunk of change for the pieces, but it
could easily save your life if you start running around in the
mountains a lot.

-- Bruce --

On 3/4/2012 4:50 PM, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
....

... It's a good sized chunk of change for the pieces, but it
could easily save your life if you start running around in the
mountains a lot.

Yeah, they're a lot of them around the Chicago area Iggy'll be certain
to run into...

--

"Pete C." on Sat, 03 Mar 2012 22:00:41 -0600
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Ignoramus20398 wrote:

On 2012-03-03, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:28:21 -0600, Ignoramus22470
wrote:

On 2012-03-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:03:30 -0600, Ignoramus6107
wrote:

I have been practicing and driving my semi tractor almost every day
recently. Not much time every day, but I usually manage to find at
least some time every day. At my age and after 17 years of driving
auto transmission, the skills to drive a truck with an unsynchronized
manual transmission do not come easily, but I am making progress. I
can now shift up and down, and by now, it works well most of the time.

I will soon try to pass a theoretical exam to get a CDL learner's
permit.

i

You're learning at a better age than myself. I started driving
truckloads of wheat to the elevator at 14. Dad told me to never go on
the highway. Of course, I ignored that. I forgot to down shift at the
top of pleasant grove hill. When the brakes wore out, I tried to down
shift and missed it. That old truck was doing 80 at the bottom of the
hill. I was lucky to see 15. But, I've never forgot to down shift
again.


I have found a golden guy, an honest mobile mechanic, I will have him
check my brakes out.

i

Iggy, just in case you don't alread know, NEVER go down a hill in a
gear higher than you go up it. Downshift at the top. No matter how
good the brakes are, it won't stop 80,000 lbs. I just told you how i
learned this.

Karl


Karl, I am aware of this, yes. I think that proper brakes are enough
to slow down downhill and to switch to low gear, but I am aware of the
brake fade phenomenon.

The problem is not the brake fade, the problem is if you do not do your
downshift before you go over the crest of the hill, you have very poor
odds of being able to successfully complete the downshift on the
downgrade. What happens is you get it out of gear and then you are
unable to get it into the lower gear and often you can't get it back
into the previous gear as well. This leaves you on a downgrade in
neutral with *no* engine braking at all and your service brakes won't do
the job. It's runaway truck ramp time if you are lucky enough to find
one.

It ain't so much "brake fade" as "brake fire". And if you miss
the gears on the downshift, you may not be able to get it into _any_
gear. You are now along for the ride. Google "30,000 Pounds of
Bananas" for a song about what happens.
"side swiped six parked cars
... and that's when he lost his head.
not to mention several other body parts .."


My Dad knew the CHP who had his patrol car floored, with siren and
lights wailing, and had just hit 105 miles per hour, when the truck
went by him, going much faster. I don't recall if that guy made it
all the way down, shiny side up. But if he did, he would not have
been stopping before Bakersfield - no brakes, no luck.
Now that was the old Grapevine, but the experience remains -
there are not enough brakes on a truck to stop one headed downhill
with a load.
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

Ignoramus28705 on Sun, 04 Mar
2012 14:02:21 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

They might... if you have not picked up too much speed before you
realize you are in deep doo-doo and you apply them solidly in one
emergency stop.

OK, I think that I get the picture.

I now know one honest mobile truck mechanic (!), he will look and
adjust all my brakes, making whatever repairs may be necessary.

i

And then remember, "You go down a hill slow, a lot. You go down
fast - once." If you are going "over a hill" (a pass) stop at the
top, check brakes, load, stretch legs, then do not get in a hurry to
get down the hill. Better to "creep down the hill" thinking you could
shift up a gear and make it, than to arrive at the bottom wishing you
hadn't, and wind up on the six o clock news.
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

Ignoramus28705 on Sun, 04 Mar
2012 14:00:58 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 2012-03-04, Pete C. wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

"he multi-vehicle collision on Interstate 5 began when an 18-wheeler was
traveling through a tunnel. As the driver traveled at more than 65 mph,
the truck jackknifed, crashing into a wall. Vehicles behind the truck
were able to slow down and avoid hitting the 18-wheeler. Further down
the tunnel, however, other big rigs, pickup trucks, and cars were not as
lucky. Several vehicles crashed into one another and fuel from large
trucks set off a raging fire. Motorists were forced to abandon their
cars and run for safety. The tunnel instantly became an inferno, killing
3 people. One was a 6-year-old boy who managed to survive the crash, but
burned to death. In all, the accident included 33 trucks, 26 of which
were consumed by flames."


This is why licensing is more stringent for big rigs. In a normal car or
pickup there is a limit to the amount of collateral damage you can do,
in an 80,000# semi with 150+ gal of diesel and who knows what cargo on
board the potential casualties are substantially greater.

I think that my truck may have 200 gallons fuel capacity.

Even money you can't get the bottom 20 gallons, but that's a side
point.

i
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Ignoramus28705 on Sun, 04 Mar
2012 14:02:21 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

They might... if you have not picked up too much speed before you
realize you are in deep doo-doo and you apply them solidly in one
emergency stop.

OK, I think that I get the picture.

I now know one honest mobile truck mechanic (!), he will look and
adjust all my brakes, making whatever repairs may be necessary.

i

And then remember, "You go down a hill slow, a lot. You go down
fast - once." If you are going "over a hill" (a pass) stop at the
top, check brakes, load, stretch legs, then do not get in a hurry to
get down the hill. Better to "creep down the hill" thinking you could
shift up a gear and make it, than to arrive at the bottom wishing you
hadn't, and wind up on the six o clock news.

In CT there were two fairly recent incidents of trucks loosing brakes on
Avon mountain (not very big or steep really). One incident was a large
dump truck the ended up plowing into cars stopped at the traffic light
at the bottom killing a number of people. The second was a flatbed semi
with a load of asphalt shingles, on this one the driver somehow managed
to weave through traffic on the opposite side of the road, get through
the intersection at the bottom, over a hundred yards of grass or so and
take out the corner of a building without hitting anyone. The driver got
a broken leg if I recall but that was the only injury. Last I recall
they were widening the road and building a runaway truck ramp.

In article ,
says...

Ignoramus28705 on Sun, 04 Mar
2012 14:02:21 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

They might... if you have not picked up too much speed before you
realize you are in deep doo-doo and you apply them solidly in one
emergency stop.

OK, I think that I get the picture.

I now know one honest mobile truck mechanic (!), he will look and
adjust all my brakes, making whatever repairs may be necessary.

i

And then remember, "You go down a hill slow, a lot. You go down
fast - once." If you are going "over a hill" (a pass) stop at the
top, check brakes, load, stretch legs, then do not get in a hurry to
get down the hill. Better to "creep down the hill" thinking you could
shift up a gear and make it, than to arrive at the bottom wishing you
hadn't, and wind up on the six o clock news.

I'm wondering how long it will be before the Federal government starts
requiring "TruckStop", a huge solid fuel rocket motor that stops the
truck once, no matter what, slagging it down in the process.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

I'm wondering how long it will be before the Federal government
starts
requiring "TruckStop", a huge solid fuel rocket motor that stops the
truck once, no matter what, slagging it down in the process.

Several of us worked on the implementation of air brake ABS that the
government mandated in 1975, and learned how unwise it is to trust a
lawyer to fix your brakes.

Better to send a good mechanic to Congress:
http://bass.house.gov/index.php?opti... Itemid=400197
"rebuilding old cars in his barn"

His father Perkins was known in Congress as "small-mouthed Bass", to
distinguish him from Tennessee's flamboyant Rep. Ross Bass.

jsw

I don't know if they still do this but twenty years ago when I lived
in the Colorado rockies there was a weigh station on I-70 at the town
of Idaho Springs. They asked all the truckers who were headed west if
they had ever driven over that section of highway before. From Idaho
Springs it is a loooong uphill grade to the Eisenhour Tunnel and then
an even loooooooonger very steep down hill grade on the other side
till you get down to Silver Plume. If a trucker had not been that way
before he was required to park his rig and go inside and watch a video
explaining how to drive on that stretch of road and handle the grades
before he was premitted to leave.


pyotr filipivich wrote:

Ignoramus28705 on Sun, 04 Mar
2012 14:02:21 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

They might... if you have not picked up too much speed before you
realize you are in deep doo-doo and you apply them solidly in one
emergency stop.

OK, I think that I get the picture.

I now know one honest mobile truck mechanic (!), he will look and
adjust all my brakes, making whatever repairs may be necessary.

i

And then remember, "You go down a hill slow, a lot. You go down
fast - once." If you are going "over a hill" (a pass) stop at the
top, check brakes, load, stretch legs, then do not get in a hurry to
get down the hill. Better to "creep down the hill" thinking you could
shift up a gear and make it, than to arrive at the bottom wishing you
hadn't, and wind up on the six o clock news.

In CT there were two fairly recent incidents of trucks loosing brakes on
Avon mountain (not very big or steep really). One incident was a large
dump truck the ended up plowing into cars stopped at the traffic light
at the bottom killing a number of people. The second was a flatbed semi
with a load of asphalt shingles, on this one the driver somehow managed
to weave through traffic on the opposite side of the road, get through
the intersection at the bottom, over a hundred yards of grass or so and
take out the corner of a building without hitting anyone. The driver got
a broken leg if I recall but that was the only injury. Last I recall
they were widening the road and building a runaway truck ramp.

On 2012-03-07, MTBSW wrote:
I don't know if they still do this but twenty years ago when I lived
in the Colorado rockies there was a weigh station on I-70 at the town
of Idaho Springs. They asked all the truckers who were headed west if
they had ever driven over that section of highway before. From Idaho
Springs it is a loooong uphill grade to the Eisenhour Tunnel and then
an even loooooooonger very steep down hill grade on the other side
till you get down to Silver Plume. If a trucker had not been that way
before he was required to park his rig and go inside and watch a video
explaining how to drive on that stretch of road and handle the grades
before he was premitted to leave.

Are you a trucker?

I am wondering, about those long downgrades. How do you decide which
lower gear to choose? Would you pick one that would give you something
like 1,500 RPM at your desired safe speed?

By the way, I found a great mobile mechanic. For just $90 and a heavy
duty C clamp, he fully checked and adjusted my truck's brakes,
lubricated everything, and did a lot of other maintenance and checked
everything. He said that the brakes are 3/4 new, and it is generally
good to drive.

I will try to get a DOT medical card, and will then take the written
exam.

thanks

i

Ignoramus2617 wrote:
On 2012-03-07, MTBSW wrote:
I don't know if they still do this but twenty years ago when I lived
in the Colorado rockies there was a weigh station on I-70 at the town
of Idaho Springs. They asked all the truckers who were headed west if
they had ever driven over that section of highway before. From Idaho
Springs it is a loooong uphill grade to the Eisenhour Tunnel and then
an even loooooooonger very steep down hill grade on the other side
till you get down to Silver Plume. If a trucker had not been that way
before he was required to park his rig and go inside and watch a video
explaining how to drive on that stretch of road and handle the grades
before he was premitted to leave.

Are you a trucker?

I am wondering, about those long downgrades. How do you decide which
lower gear to choose? Would you pick one that would give you something
like 1,500 RPM at your desired safe speed?

Experience. Really. What gear you will use all depends on what the load
is, how the rig is loaded, what the road surface is, day/night, single
screw/twin screw, what the grade is, what your gearing is, what items
you have to slow you (Jake brake/exhaust retarder) plus some more.

The old rule of thumb is to use one gear lower than what it took you to
climb the hill. IE if you made it up using 9th then drop to 8th to go
down. This works IF both sides have the same grade, not usually the
case. It also doesn't work well on high HP rigs since you probably used
a gear much higher coming up than the ROT covers. IE: a 525 powered KW
will climb a pretty steep grade.



By the way, I found a great mobile mechanic. For just $90 and a heavy
duty C clamp, he fully checked and adjusted my truck's brakes,
lubricated everything, and did a lot of other maintenance and checked
everything. He said that the brakes are 3/4 new, and it is generally
good to drive.

I will try to get a DOT medical card, and will then take the written
exam.

thanks

i

DOT physical isn't hard. The written exam isn't hard either. The actual
driving test can be interesting depending on the brownie.
The usual routine for the driving test is, Show up with your driving
partner (someone who has a license to drive whatever you bring and has
all the paperwork)
Next you will do a pre-trip and verify that everything is OK. Then it
depends on their test. But you will need to do some actual road driving,
paying attention to EVERYTHING. Check the gauges/mirrors/lane
position/gearing (no shifting in intersections)and all the rest. Lane
position is interesting because most auto drivers don't bother with it.
Then you will be doing a straight line backing maneuver and parallel
parking. They may ask you to do a blind side backing into a dock or
something like that as well.

I would try to get as much practice in the actual vehicle you will be
using for the test that you can. Driving with a trailer behind you will
REALLY get your attention....


--
Steve W.

On 2012-03-08, Steve W. wrote:
Ignoramus2617 wrote:
On 2012-03-07, MTBSW wrote:
I don't know if they still do this but twenty years ago when I lived
in the Colorado rockies there was a weigh station on I-70 at the town
of Idaho Springs. They asked all the truckers who were headed west if
they had ever driven over that section of highway before. From Idaho
Springs it is a loooong uphill grade to the Eisenhour Tunnel and then
an even loooooooonger very steep down hill grade on the other side
till you get down to Silver Plume. If a trucker had not been that way
before he was required to park his rig and go inside and watch a video
explaining how to drive on that stretch of road and handle the grades
before he was premitted to leave.

Are you a trucker?

I am wondering, about those long downgrades. How do you decide which
lower gear to choose? Would you pick one that would give you something
like 1,500 RPM at your desired safe speed?

Experience. Really. What gear you will use all depends on what the load
is, how the rig is loaded, what the road surface is, day/night, single
screw/twin screw, what the grade is, what your gearing is, what items
you have to slow you (Jake brake/exhaust retarder) plus some more.

The old rule of thumb is to use one gear lower than what it took you to
climb the hill. IE if you made it up using 9th then drop to 8th to go
down. This works IF both sides have the same grade, not usually the
case. It also doesn't work well on high HP rigs since you probably used
a gear much higher coming up than the ROT covers. IE: a 525 powered KW
will climb a pretty steep grade.

Yes, lots of variables.

By the way, I found a great mobile mechanic. For just $90 and a heavy
duty C clamp, he fully checked and adjusted my truck's brakes,
lubricated everything, and did a lot of other maintenance and checked
everything. He said that the brakes are 3/4 new, and it is generally
good to drive.

I will try to get a DOT medical card, and will then take the written
exam.

DOT physical isn't hard. The written exam isn't hard either. The actual
driving test can be interesting depending on the brownie.
The usual routine for the driving test is, Show up with your driving
partner (someone who has a license to drive whatever you bring and has
all the paperwork)
Next you will do a pre-trip and verify that everything is OK. Then it
depends on their test. But you will need to do some actual road driving,
paying attention to EVERYTHING. Check the gauges/mirrors/lane
position/gearing (no shifting in intersections)and all the rest. Lane
position is interesting because most auto drivers don't bother with it.
Then you will be doing a straight line backing maneuver and parallel
parking. They may ask you to do a blind side backing into a dock or
something like that as well.

I would try to get as much practice in the actual vehicle you will be
using for the test that you can. Driving with a trailer behind you will
REALLY get your attention....

I think that I will go the route that Pete C suggested, and will rent
a truck with an auto transmission, for the purposes of the skills test. Less
distraction when driving and less points to be taken off, for grinding
gears. I have been driving with trailers for a while.

i

Ignoramus2617 wrote:
On 2012-03-08, Steve W. wrote:
Ignoramus2617 wrote:
On 2012-03-07, MTBSW wrote:
I don't know if they still do this but twenty years ago when I lived
in the Colorado rockies there was a weigh station on I-70 at the town
of Idaho Springs. They asked all the truckers who were headed west if
they had ever driven over that section of highway before. From Idaho
Springs it is a loooong uphill grade to the Eisenhour Tunnel and then
an even loooooooonger very steep down hill grade on the other side
till you get down to Silver Plume. If a trucker had not been that way
before he was required to park his rig and go inside and watch a video
explaining how to drive on that stretch of road and handle the grades
before he was premitted to leave.
Are you a trucker?

I am wondering, about those long downgrades. How do you decide which
lower gear to choose? Would you pick one that would give you something
like 1,500 RPM at your desired safe speed?
Experience. Really. What gear you will use all depends on what the load
is, how the rig is loaded, what the road surface is, day/night, single
screw/twin screw, what the grade is, what your gearing is, what items
you have to slow you (Jake brake/exhaust retarder) plus some more.

The old rule of thumb is to use one gear lower than what it took you to
climb the hill. IE if you made it up using 9th then drop to 8th to go
down. This works IF both sides have the same grade, not usually the
case. It also doesn't work well on high HP rigs since you probably used
a gear much higher coming up than the ROT covers. IE: a 525 powered KW
will climb a pretty steep grade.

Yes, lots of variables.

That is why saying that "Use this gear for this hill" doesn't work. What
you end up doing usually is trying to pick the gear that gives you a
legal speed descent with the engine in the middle of the power band for
the engine. The trick is to add all the variables up to find that gear...


By the way, I found a great mobile mechanic. For just $90 and a heavy
duty C clamp, he fully checked and adjusted my truck's brakes,
lubricated everything, and did a lot of other maintenance and checked
everything. He said that the brakes are 3/4 new, and it is generally
good to drive.

I will try to get a DOT medical card, and will then take the written
exam.
DOT physical isn't hard. The written exam isn't hard either. The actual
driving test can be interesting depending on the brownie.
The usual routine for the driving test is, Show up with your driving
partner (someone who has a license to drive whatever you bring and has
all the paperwork)
Next you will do a pre-trip and verify that everything is OK. Then it
depends on their test. But you will need to do some actual road driving,
paying attention to EVERYTHING. Check the gauges/mirrors/lane
position/gearing (no shifting in intersections)and all the rest. Lane
position is interesting because most auto drivers don't bother with it.
Then you will be doing a straight line backing maneuver and parallel
parking. They may ask you to do a blind side backing into a dock or
something like that as well.

I would try to get as much practice in the actual vehicle you will be
using for the test that you can. Driving with a trailer behind you will
REALLY get your attention....

I think that I will go the route that Pete C suggested, and will rent
a truck with an auto transmission, for the purposes of the skills test. Less
distraction when driving and less points to be taken off, for grinding
gears. I have been driving with trailers for a while.

i


Trust me driving a P/U with a trailer is NOTHING compared to a tractor
trailer with a 102" wide 48-53 foot long trailer behind you.
Especially if it's a bumper tow unit. Everything is different.

--
Steve W.

On 3/7/2012 9:13 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Ignoramus2617 wrote:
On 2012-03-08, Steve W. wrote:
Ignoramus2617 wrote:
On 2012-03-07, MTBSW wrote:
I don't know if they still do this but twenty years ago when I lived
in the Colorado rockies there was a weigh station on I-70 at the town
of Idaho Springs. They asked all the truckers who were headed west if
they had ever driven over that section of highway before. From Idaho
Springs it is a loooong uphill grade to the Eisenhour Tunnel and then
an even loooooooonger very steep down hill grade on the other side
till you get down to Silver Plume. If a trucker had not been that way
before he was required to park his rig and go inside and watch a video
explaining how to drive on that stretch of road and handle the grades
before he was premitted to leave.
Are you a trucker?

I am wondering, about those long downgrades. How do you decide which
lower gear to choose? Would you pick one that would give you something
like 1,500 RPM at your desired safe speed?
Experience. Really. What gear you will use all depends on what the
load is, how the rig is loaded, what the road surface is, day/night,
single screw/twin screw, what the grade is, what your gearing is,
what items you have to slow you (Jake brake/exhaust retarder) plus
some more.

The old rule of thumb is to use one gear lower than what it took you
to climb the hill. IE if you made it up using 9th then drop to 8th to
go down. This works IF both sides have the same grade, not usually
the case. It also doesn't work well on high HP rigs since you
probably used a gear much higher coming up than the ROT covers. IE: a
525 powered KW will climb a pretty steep grade.

Yes, lots of variables.

That is why saying that "Use this gear for this hill" doesn't work. What
you end up doing usually is trying to pick the gear that gives you a
legal speed descent with the engine in the middle of the power band for
the engine. The trick is to add all the variables up to find that gear...

So, is the calculation involved in adding up all those variables based
on science, or is it an art?




By the way, I found a great mobile mechanic. For just $90 and a heavy
duty C clamp, he fully checked and adjusted my truck's brakes,
lubricated everything, and did a lot of other maintenance and checked
everything. He said that the brakes are 3/4 new, and it is generally
good to drive.
I will try to get a DOT medical card, and will then take the written
exam.
DOT physical isn't hard. The written exam isn't hard either. The
actual driving test can be interesting depending on the brownie.
The usual routine for the driving test is, Show up with your driving
partner (someone who has a license to drive whatever you bring and
has all the paperwork)
Next you will do a pre-trip and verify that everything is OK. Then it
depends on their test. But you will need to do some actual road
driving, paying attention to EVERYTHING. Check the
gauges/mirrors/lane position/gearing (no shifting in
intersections)and all the rest. Lane position is interesting because
most auto drivers don't bother with it. Then you will be doing a
straight line backing maneuver and parallel parking. They may ask you
to do a blind side backing into a dock or something like that as well.

I would try to get as much practice in the actual vehicle you will be
using for the test that you can. Driving with a trailer behind you
will REALLY get your attention....

I think that I will go the route that Pete C suggested, and will rent
a truck with an auto transmission, for the purposes of the skills
test. Less
distraction when driving and less points to be taken off, for grinding
gears. I have been driving with trailers for a while.
i


Trust me driving a P/U with a trailer is NOTHING compared to a tractor
trailer with a 102" wide 48-53 foot long trailer behind you.
Especially if it's a bumper tow unit. Everything is different.



--
Räy Fîscher | Mendacrisy (n.) government by lying
| The new DNC ideal

Räy Fischer wrote:
That is why saying that "Use this gear for this hill" doesn't work. What
you end up doing usually is trying to pick the gear that gives you a
legal speed descent with the engine in the middle of the power band for
the engine. The trick is to add all the variables up to find that gear...

So, is the calculation involved in adding up all those variables based
on science, or is it an art?

Both. While you could set there and calculate out the gear ratio using
the weight of the vehicle, contact patch friction available, amount of
available engine braking, amount of wind drag, degree of grade, and the
rest and probably come up with it, folks with experience driving can
look at the situation and decide, "Well for this hill 10th should do
it", shift and be down the hill...

Just takes practice and knowing what your rig will do with the given
load. Most of the time a good driver will have an idea about how the
load will handle after about the first mile or so pulling it. Just in
the way it feels through the wheel and the way you shift to get moving.
Every load will act different depending on overall weight, center mass,
center of gravity, wheel spacing, number of drive axles 5th wheel
location, road conditions even the wind resistance and drag under the
trailer all make profound differences.

Now add in people tailgating, cutting you off, erratic speeds, long
hours, and all the rest and it gets a bit stressful in that rockin'
chair. It's one of the reasons there is a shortfall of drivers out there.

--
Steve W.