On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 11:36:03 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"rangerssuck" wrote in message
news:ce9e907c-6d1b-4531-9f5d-

Well, for starters, $1.16 per kWh? Where does this guy live?

After separating the fixed and proportional costs, I pay $0.159 per
KWH. If I simply divide the bill by the consumption it looks like
$0.25. I can run a gas generator for considerably less than $1.16 /
KWH.
http://www.p3international.com/products/p4460.html

Much more significant is the cost of the battery divided by its
capacity times cycle life, to give dollars per KWH. With lead-acids,
solar power doesn't break even for me if the panels are free.

I wonder how far a quiet li'l Honda EU generator would take an EV. The
Hondas run 8+ hours per tank of gas. Pop that puppy in the trunk,
route the exhaust out the bottom/back, and drive nonstop to Vegas from
anywhere! (Well, not from Australia.)

--
Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before
which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.
-- John Quincy Adams

Easier just to drive a Honda automobile.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

I wonder how far a quiet li'l Honda EU generator would take an EV. The
Hondas run 8+ hours per tank of gas. Pop that puppy in the trunk,
route the exhaust out the bottom/back, and drive nonstop to Vegas from
anywhere! (Well, not from Australia.)

--
Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before
which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.
-- John Quincy Adams

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
.. .
Easier just to drive a Honda automobile.
Christopher A. Young .

"Larry Jaques" wrote
I wonder how far a quiet li'l Honda EU generator would take an EV.
The
Hondas run 8+ hours per tank of gas. Pop that puppy in the trunk,
route the exhaust out the bottom/back, and drive nonstop to Vegas
from
anywhere! (Well, not from Australia.)

To put this in numerical perspective, a 3KW generator needs a 5HP
engine. Ever drive a 40HP Volkswagen on long trips?

I had a 1978 Accord with 68 HP (51KW)
http://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/10/16/...age-1978-2007/

It really would give the mileage shown on the graph. I averaged 36 to
38 locally and up to 44 on a trip from NH to Georgia. I was satisfied
with its horsepower but it wouldn't sell now.

jsw

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:50:13 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
. ..
Easier just to drive a Honda automobile.
Christopher A. Young .

"Larry Jaques" wrote
I wonder how far a quiet li'l Honda EU generator would take an EV.
The
Hondas run 8+ hours per tank of gas. Pop that puppy in the trunk,
route the exhaust out the bottom/back, and drive nonstop to Vegas
from
anywhere! (Well, not from Australia.)

To put this in numerical perspective, a 3KW generator needs a 5HP

I seem to have missed that 3KV figure/requirement, but Honda does make
a 3000EU...


engine. Ever drive a 40HP Volkswagen on long trips?

I have been in VW bugs half a dozen times in my life, never for more
than ten minutes. I took a trip across the Oakland(?) Bay Bridge in
1968 in a VW ban when there were 40mph gusts at 90 degrees to us. We
were anywhere from 30-45 degrees tilted the whole trip across. It
scared the absolute crap out of me. I have never been in another VW
van since then and don't intend to. Oh, I was hit by a low flying VW
bug in '90 or so. It gave me a nastyass whiplash, dented my nose and
forehead (even with the seatbelt on) and I've never forgiven the
damned things or the people who drive VWs. They're just OFF. Feh!

So, no. I've never been in any VW for a long trip. But the gearing
and torque are totally different in an EV.


I had a 1978 Accord with 68 HP (51KW)
http://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/10/16/...age-1978-2007/

It really would give the mileage shown on the graph. I averaged 36 to
38 locally and up to 44 on a trip from NH to Georgia. I was satisfied
with its horsepower but it wouldn't sell now.

Accords have always been spirited little beauts. Nice cars, Honda. I
wouldn't buy a used one, though. Once they start on the downhill
slide, they go like a rockslide.

--
Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before
which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.
-- John Quincy Adams

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:50:13 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

To put this in numerical perspective, a 3KW generator needs a 5HP

I seem to have missed that 3KV figure/requirement, but Honda does
make
a 3000EU...

3KW is not a requirement, it shows how completely inadequate a
portable generator is for the task.

Logical analysis isn't one of your strong points, is it?

jsw

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:44:39 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:50:13 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

To put this in numerical perspective, a 3KW generator needs a 5HP

I seem to have missed that 3KV figure/requirement, but Honda does
make
a 3000EU...

3KW is not a requirement, it shows how completely inadequate a
portable generator is for the task.

I don't have the figures for the vehicle in front of me. shrug


Logical analysis isn't one of your strong points, is it?

KMA,H.

--
Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before
which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.
-- John Quincy Adams

Larry Jaques wrote:



I wonder how far a quiet li'l Honda EU generator would take an EV. The
Hondas run 8+ hours per tank of gas. Pop that puppy in the trunk,
route the exhaust out the bottom/back, and drive nonstop to Vegas from
anywhere! (Well, not from Australia.)
Won't quite work. The typical US passenger car (presumably a smaller
model) takes somewhere between 12 - 15 Hp to propel it at highway
speed. Wind resistance goes up at the cube of speed, so slowing down
even a little helps a lot. Our university did an extended-range
hybrid some years ago with an 18-HP v-twin B&S lawnmower engine.
The team leader installed electronic fuel injection on the engine
to clean it up and reduce fuel consumption. The car was a donated
Ford Taurus station wagon with manual transmission. After trying
to figure out how to make a parallel hybrid for a while, they gave
up and made it a serial hybrid, with the engine electrically
coupled to the battery bus. The rules required 40 mile range on
electric only, and able to run 40 MPH, I think, on the gas engine.
I would have liked to get more test data on it, but they did achieve
those requirements.

So, a little gas generator in the 2 - 3 KW class won't do it.
Somewhere around 15 KW is going to be needed for continuous
highway driving, assuming some losses here and there.

Of course, Honda with the Civic and Insight hybrids and Toyota
with the Prius and clones have a BUNCH of tricks to help
out. The use 0W5 oil for low engine losses, low rolling
resistance tires, plastic panels under the entire car to
cut wind drag on the underside, and so on.

The original 2-seat Insight got GREAT gas mileage with a
950 CC 3-cyl engine. I saw one on eBay that had a lifetime
average of 87 MPG over 113K miles. They just photographed
the dashboard display. So, IT CAN be done!

Jon

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 22:37:07 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:



I wonder how far a quiet li'l Honda EU generator would take an EV. The
Hondas run 8+ hours per tank of gas. Pop that puppy in the trunk,
route the exhaust out the bottom/back, and drive nonstop to Vegas from
anywhere! (Well, not from Australia.)
Won't quite work. The typical US passenger car (presumably a smaller
model) takes somewhere between 12 - 15 Hp to propel it at highway
speed. Wind resistance goes up at the cube of speed,

Ah, I believe that's the square of speed, Jon:

D = Cd pV^2A/2

(Drag equals coefficient of drag times gas density times velocity
squared times frontal area over two)

Where the cube factor comes into play is in the *power* required as
velocity increases. This is because you're moving farther in a given
amount of time, which requires more work in that amount of time. So
the drag is the relative velocities squared, and you multiply that
result by the relative rate of doing work, and you wind up with a cube
relationship.

I'm never very good at explaining these things. I hope that gets
through the static.

An example: Neglecting other forms of drag, if a car requires 10 hp at
40 mph, it will require 80 hp at 80 mph.

--
Ed Huntress

slowing down
even a little helps a lot. Our university did an extended-range
hybrid some years ago with an 18-HP v-twin B&S lawnmower engine.
The team leader installed electronic fuel injection on the engine
to clean it up and reduce fuel consumption. The car was a donated
Ford Taurus station wagon with manual transmission. After trying
to figure out how to make a parallel hybrid for a while, they gave
up and made it a serial hybrid, with the engine electrically
coupled to the battery bus. The rules required 40 mile range on
electric only, and able to run 40 MPH, I think, on the gas engine.
I would have liked to get more test data on it, but they did achieve
those requirements.

So, a little gas generator in the 2 - 3 KW class won't do it.
Somewhere around 15 KW is going to be needed for continuous
highway driving, assuming some losses here and there.

Of course, Honda with the Civic and Insight hybrids and Toyota
with the Prius and clones have a BUNCH of tricks to help
out. The use 0W5 oil for low engine losses, low rolling
resistance tires, plastic panels under the entire car to
cut wind drag on the underside, and so on.

The original 2-seat Insight got GREAT gas mileage with a
950 CC 3-cyl engine. I saw one on eBay that had a lifetime
average of 87 MPG over 113K miles. They just photographed
the dashboard display. So, IT CAN be done!

Jon

Ed Huntress wrote:


Ah, I believe that's the square of speed, Jon:

D = Cd pV^2A/2

(Drag equals coefficient of drag times gas density times velocity
squared times frontal area over two)

Where the cube factor comes into play is in the *power* required as
velocity increases.
Whoops, you're right!

Jon