I brought home a Blackhawk "Porto Power" hydraulic hand pump with a set
of spreading jaws from yesterday's Cabin Fever. I would place the
manufacturing date as perhaps the 40's.
The rehab process brings up some questions:

The pump output port is connected to a 4" length of what appears to be
plain 3/8" iron pipe. This pipe connects to what appears to be a plain
iron union (?), with a reducing bushing for the hose on the other side
of the union. Are plain iron pipe fittings acceptable for high pressure
hydraulic use, or is this a kluge? (For my uses the pipe/union are
coming off.)

This style of pump is sold as a "10 Ton" pump. The piston on the jaws
appears to have an internal diameter of 1.5", so it would appear that I
would have to put 11000+ pounds of pressure on the fluid to get 10 Tons
at the piston. Pressure fittings and hoses for this use do not have that
high of a pressure rating. What am I missing?

thanks,

Kevin Gallimore

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:13:39 -0500, axolotl
wrote:


I brought home a Blackhawk "Porto Power" hydraulic hand pump with a set
of spreading jaws from yesterday's Cabin Fever. I would place the
manufacturing date as perhaps the 40's.
The rehab process brings up some questions:

The pump output port is connected to a 4" length of what appears to be
plain 3/8" iron pipe. This pipe connects to what appears to be a plain
iron union (?), with a reducing bushing for the hose on the other side
of the union. Are plain iron pipe fittings acceptable for high pressure
hydraulic use, or is this a kluge? (For my uses the pipe/union are
coming off.)

This style of pump is sold as a "10 Ton" pump. The piston on the jaws
appears to have an internal diameter of 1.5", so it would appear that I
would have to put 11000+ pounds of pressure on the fluid to get 10 Tons
at the piston. Pressure fittings and hoses for this use do not have that
high of a pressure rating. What am I missing?

thanks,

Kevin Gallimore

I don't know if things have changed since the 40s, but the usual pumps
and rams are rated for 10,000 psi.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ENE...480?Pid=search

The spreading jaws I'm familiar with are not rated for that much
pressure, but some may be.

You can buy 10,000 psi hose and quick connect fittings from Enerpac.
The hoses are expensive, the QDs aren't too bad. If you need other
fittings, McMaster should have hydraulic fittings rated to match, and
they carry generic QDs that are compatible with but less expensive
than Enerpac brand fittings.

--
Ned Simmons

axolotl wrote:

I brought home a Blackhawk "Porto Power" hydraulic hand pump with a set
of spreading jaws from yesterday's Cabin Fever. I would place the
manufacturing date as perhaps the 40's.
The rehab process brings up some questions:

The pump output port is connected to a 4" length of what appears to be
plain 3/8" iron pipe. This pipe connects to what appears to be a plain
iron union (?), with a reducing bushing for the hose on the other side
of the union. Are plain iron pipe fittings acceptable for high pressure
hydraulic use, or is this a kluge? (For my uses the pipe/union are
coming off.)

This style of pump is sold as a "10 Ton" pump. The piston on the jaws
appears to have an internal diameter of 1.5", so it would appear that I
would have to put 11000+ pounds of pressure on the fluid to get 10 Tons
at the piston. Pressure fittings and hoses for this use do not have that
high of a pressure rating. What am I missing?

thanks,

Kevin Gallimore

No, plain iron pipe is not suitable for 10,000 PSI hydraulic use. The
normal configuration of these units has a 10,000 PSI WP rates hose
coming directly off the hand pump, and they have high pressure rated
screw type hydraulic QD couplings for the attachments.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_491_491

"Pete C." wrote

axolotl wrote:....

No, plain iron pipe is not suitable for 10,000 PSI hydraulic use. The
normal configuration of these units has a 10,000 PSI WP rates hose
coming directly off the hand pump, and they have high pressure rated
screw type hydraulic QD couplings for the attachments.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_491_491

The quaint little specialty shops in MY kind of shopping mall:
http://www.theparkerstore.com/

They are behind Fastenal and the electronics surplus store.
http://www.fastenal.com/web/home.ex

jsw

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:13:39 -0500, axolotl
wrote:


I brought home a Blackhawk "Porto Power" hydraulic hand pump with a set
of spreading jaws from yesterday's Cabin Fever. I would place the
manufacturing date as perhaps the 40's.
The rehab process brings up some questions:

The pump output port is connected to a 4" length of what appears to be
plain 3/8" iron pipe. This pipe connects to what appears to be a plain
iron union (?), with a reducing bushing for the hose on the other side
of the union. Are plain iron pipe fittings acceptable for high pressure
hydraulic use, or is this a kluge? (For my uses the pipe/union are
coming off.)

This style of pump is sold as a "10 Ton" pump. The piston on the jaws
appears to have an internal diameter of 1.5", so it would appear that I
would have to put 11000+ pounds of pressure on the fluid to get 10 Tons
at the piston. Pressure fittings and hoses for this use do not have that
high of a pressure rating. What am I missing?

Hydraulic pressure in the line is much less than total at the piston.
Area of the piston divided by area of the line is the ratio.
http://www.capetronics.com/images/basics6.gif
Pressure hose we used on autos was usually rated at 3-6kpsi and run at
1.8-3kpsi.

Here ya go. Plug in your known numbers:
http://www.engineersedge.com/fluid_f...ssure_pipe.htm

I can't find burst pressure for black iron pipe or fittings.

--
I merely took the energy it takes to pout and wrote some blues.
--Duke Ellington

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:13:39 -0500, axolotl
wrote:


I brought home a Blackhawk "Porto Power" hydraulic hand pump with a set
of spreading jaws from yesterday's Cabin Fever. I would place the
manufacturing date as perhaps the 40's.
The rehab process brings up some questions:

The pump output port is connected to a 4" length of what appears to be
plain 3/8" iron pipe. This pipe connects to what appears to be a plain
iron union (?), with a reducing bushing for the hose on the other side
of the union. Are plain iron pipe fittings acceptable for high pressure
hydraulic use, or is this a kluge? (For my uses the pipe/union are
coming off.)

This style of pump is sold as a "10 Ton" pump. The piston on the jaws
appears to have an internal diameter of 1.5", so it would appear that I
would have to put 11000+ pounds of pressure on the fluid to get 10 Tons
at the piston. Pressure fittings and hoses for this use do not have that
high of a pressure rating. What am I missing?

Hydraulic pressure in the line is much less than total at the piston.
Area of the piston divided by area of the line is the ratio.
http://www.capetronics.com/images/basics6.gif
Pressure hose we used on autos was usually rated at 3-6kpsi and run at
1.8-3kpsi.

Here ya go. Plug in your known numbers:
http://www.engineersedge.com/fluid_f...ssure_pipe.htm

I can't find burst pressure for black iron pipe or fittings.

The hand pumped porta-power and enerpak hydraulic stuff is generally
considered 10,000 PSI hydraulics. The hand pumped stuff operates at much
higher pressures than most mobile equipment, in part because hand pumped
stuff is non-shock hydraulics that doesn't see the pressure spikes
common to mobile equipment. The safe operating pressures for small dia
*quality* black pipe are going to be more like 1,500 PSI at best.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
I can't find burst pressure for black iron pipe or fittings.

http://www.indpipe.com/images/PDF/ma...ifications.pdf

I've seen some survive 2000 PSI in hydraulics, and others crack while being
assembled. Personally I buy hydraulic fittings that don't look at all like
water pipe and store them separately. Reducing bushings that look kinda
similar stay on more obvious fittings. The chromate finish is a good
indication for new parts but it doesn't survive rough use.

Spare porta power couplers are handy, to patch in a temporary pressure gauge
for instance:
http://www.toolcentral.com/ecommerce.../product/25998
That's not where I bought mine, just a Google hit, but the price looks good.

jsw

The capacity of spreader jaws has always been significantly lower than a
straight cylinder, mainly for keeping that accessory compact, I suspect.
The pulling cylinder accessory capacity ratings are typically also lower
rated.

The Blackhawks and similar models have been used for generations in autobody
collision repair and heavy equipment/industrial maintenance/service areas.
The spreader jaws are definitely handy because they're compact, and
generally more versatile than prybars or other methods of separating parts.

Spreader jaws' lower capacity is generally acceptable where working space
may be very limited.. and will generally cause little collateral damage,
unlike much higher capacity jaws-of-life emergency equipment, which
typically isn't intended to minimize damage.

Fittings machined from bar stock are the usual construction for the
hydraulics and also the mechanical extension tube couplers.

--
WB
..........


"axolotl" wrote in message
...

I brought home a Blackhawk "Porto Power" hydraulic hand pump with a set of
spreading jaws from yesterday's Cabin Fever. I would place the
manufacturing date as perhaps the 40's.
The rehab process brings up some questions:

The pump output port is connected to a 4" length of what appears to be
plain 3/8" iron pipe. This pipe connects to what appears to be a plain
iron union (?), with a reducing bushing for the hose on the other side of
the union. Are plain iron pipe fittings acceptable for high pressure
hydraulic use, or is this a kluge? (For my uses the pipe/union are coming
off.)

This style of pump is sold as a "10 Ton" pump. The piston on the jaws
appears to have an internal diameter of 1.5", so it would appear that I
would have to put 11000+ pounds of pressure on the fluid to get 10 Tons at
the piston. Pressure fittings and hoses for this use do not have that high
of a pressure rating. What am I missing?

thanks,

Kevin Gallimore

On 1/15/2012 6:57 PM, Pete C. wrote:


Hydraulic pressure in the line is much less than total at the piston.
Area of the piston divided by area of the line is the ratio.
http://www.capetronics.com/images/basics6.gif
Pressure hose we used on autos was usually rated at 3-6kpsi and run at
1.8-3kpsi.

Here ya go. Plug in your known numbers:
http://www.engineersedge.com/fluid_f...ssure_pipe.htm

I can't find burst pressure for black iron pipe or fittings.

The hand pumped porta-power and enerpak hydraulic stuff is generally
considered 10,000 PSI hydraulics. The hand pumped stuff operates at much
higher pressures than most mobile equipment, in part because hand pumped
stuff is non-shock hydraulics that doesn't see the pressure spikes
common to mobile equipment. The safe operating pressures for small dia
*quality* black pipe are going to be more like 1,500 PSI at best.

When I got the thing apart, it was evident that the pipe was a kluge to
replace an elongated coupler/bushing shown in the patent drawings. I
will make a replacement out of honest steel, and it should be good to go.
It would seem that the system could be rated for all kinds of power
depending on the diameter of the slave cylinder.

Thanks,

Kevin Gallimore

On 1/15/2012 5:06 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
....

Hydraulic pressure in the line is much less than total at the piston.
Area of the piston divided by area of the line is the ratio.
http://www.capetronics.com/images/basics6.gif
....

No, the _pressure_ is the same throughout the system--it's the
longitudinal _force_ that is proportional to the area perpendicular to
the unconstrained dimension.

That's what the link illustrates--the to forces are proportional to
their relative areas; the fluid pressure is constant and uniform.

--

On 1/21/2012 11:45 AM, dpb wrote:
On 1/15/2012 5:06 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

Hydraulic pressure in the line is much less than total at the piston.
Area of the piston divided by area of the line is the ratio.
http://www.capetronics.com/images/basics6.gif
...

No, the _pressure_ is the same throughout the system--it's the
longitudinal _force_ that is proportional to the area perpendicular to
the unconstrained dimension.

That's what the link illustrates--the to forces are proportional to
their relative areas; the fluid pressure is constant and uniform.

....the tWo forces...

--