What do those of you with horizontal mills do for swarf? I finally
got the Hardinge TM mill cranked up and cutting, and have found the
swarf much more obnoxious than lathe stuff. I probably need to
increase feeds to make bigger chunks, but a shield might contain some
of the mess, too.

Made an AR-15 style sight wrench, used the mill for the teeth. Cool
to finally get it going. Next project will probably be cutting
keyways in its new x-axis screw.

Pete Keillor

On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 14:34:22 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote:

What do those of you with horizontal mills do for swarf? I finally
got the Hardinge TM mill cranked up and cutting, and have found the
swarf much more obnoxious than lathe stuff. I probably need to
increase feeds to make bigger chunks, but a shield might contain some
of the mess, too.

Made an AR-15 style sight wrench, used the mill for the teeth. Cool
to finally get it going. Next project will probably be cutting
keyways in its new x-axis screw.

Pete Keillor

What do we do for swarf? Make cuts. Need some swarf? Ive got barrels
full of it. Cheap too!!
VBG

Fortunately...G its pretty easy to deal with if you are cutting dry. A
bit of sheetmetal..a shop vac and voila..it takes care of the swarf.
On the other hand..cutting with coolant..that takes a bit more
invention. Generally ever horizontal mill Ive run required a guard that
was funnel shaped from above and was adjustable to account for the spray
of chips. All you need to do is block the rain of chips and keep em on
the table and periodically sweep them out of the T slots.
Sometimes..that can be a significant amount of the machine time.

Its easier to guard than a verticle mill as you only need to cover one
direction..rather than 360 degrees with a vertical.


Btw..Tom Gardner makes a Marvelous line of steel chip brushes for this
sort of thing.

http://ohiobrush.com/Pages/misc.html

The "loop brushes" work quite well for chip cleaning/control

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 2012-01-04, Pete Keillor wrote:
What do those of you with horizontal mills do for swarf?

Don't need to go looking for it -- the mill generates plenty for
me without me asking. :-)

I finally
got the Hardinge TM mill cranked up and cutting, and have found the
swarf much more obnoxious than lathe stuff. I probably need to
increase feeds to make bigger chunks, but a shield might contain some
of the mess, too.

What speed and what size cutters -- on what material? I tend to
use low enough RPMs so the swarf all goes away from me, and run a shop
vac after every pass or two (this for example with a 6" diameter cutter
stack adding up to 1-3/8" wide, in 6061-T6 aluminum.

Normally, at a sane speed for standard milling cutters for
horizontal mill arbors, the chips will be flying away from you (at least
where I stand with a lever feed on a Nichols horizontal mill). Same if
I've switched to the leadscrew. Feeding the work towards me,
conventional milling.

Now -- if you're using an end mill in a holder instead of
standard cutters on an arbor, your best bet is to stand there with a
shop vac sucking it up as it is created.

Made an AR-15 style sight wrench, used the mill for the teeth. Cool
to finally get it going. Next project will probably be cutting
keyways in its new x-axis screw.

Not familiar with the AR-15 sight wrench, so I don't have a feel
for the amount of swarf which will be created, but I suspect that it is
fairly small compared to what I have been doing mostly.

Of course, in commercial operations, there is usually a coolant
pump, and the coolant carries away the swarf, at least until the screen
to separate the swarf from the coolant gets full. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 5 Jan 2012 04:24:00 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2012-01-04, Pete Keillor wrote:
What do those of you with horizontal mills do for swarf?

Don't need to go looking for it -- the mill generates plenty for
me without me asking. :-)

Heh, heh.
I finally
got the Hardinge TM mill cranked up and cutting, and have found the
swarf much more obnoxious than lathe stuff. I probably need to
increase feeds to make bigger chunks, but a shield might contain some
of the mess, too.

What speed and what size cutters -- on what material? I tend to
use low enough RPMs so the swarf all goes away from me, and run a shop
vac after every pass or two (this for example with a 6" diameter cutter
stack adding up to 1-3/8" wide, in 6061-T6 aluminum.

Normally, at a sane speed for standard milling cutters for
horizontal mill arbors, the chips will be flying away from you (at least
where I stand with a lever feed on a Nichols horizontal mill). Same if
I've switched to the leadscrew. Feeding the work towards me,
conventional milling.

I need to look at the normal rotation direction again. I may have it
backwards. And measure the speed, although the chips aren't too hot,
so seems reasonable. But the chips are definitely going the wrong
way. I based it on the left handed nut on the end of the arbor, but
sometimes have trouble with that sort of thing, better with analog
than binary.

I've just done conventional. I'm guessing climb milling for finish is
more of a concern with an end mill. Also, this lead screw is way to
worn to try it. I've got the materials for a new lead screw plus
nuts, just need to pull the old one, measure it again, and get to
work.

Now -- if you're using an end mill in a holder instead of
standard cutters on an arbor, your best bet is to stand there with a
shop vac sucking it up as it is created.

Made an AR-15 style sight wrench, used the mill for the teeth. Cool
to finally get it going. Next project will probably be cutting
keyways in its new x-axis screw.

Not familiar with the AR-15 sight wrench, so I don't have a feel
for the amount of swarf which will be created, but I suspect that it is
fairly small compared to what I have been doing mostly.

Actually tiny for the wrench. I used a 0.062" wide cutter for the
wrench, just 4 prongs about 0.070" wide x .030" thick on 3/8" diameter
drill rod, drilled and bored to leave the .030" ring. Had the stock in
a 5C collet in the Hardinge dividing head, same collet as in the lathe
to do the turning. One of the nice things about this mill, 5C spindle
too.

Test cuts with a 1" wide 3" diameter helical cutter on steel scrap
generated a fair amount.

Of course, in commercial operations, there is usually a coolant
pump, and the coolant carries away the swarf, at least until the screen
to separate the swarf from the coolant gets full. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

Thanks, DoN. This mill has a pump, but I suspect it used oil, sump
isn't very large, probably about a gallon. I doubt I'll use it. I
will use the old x-axis feed gearbox, just need the right belt.

Pete Keillor

On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 23:12:29 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote:


I've just done conventional. I'm guessing climb milling for finish is
more of a concern with an end mill.

Actually...no. Its of concern with horizontal mill cutters as well.


Also, this lead screw is way to
worn to try it. I've got the materials for a new lead screw plus
nuts, just need to pull the old one, measure it again, and get to
work.

Ayup..climb milling certainly doent work very well with worn nuts and
screws.

I was marvelously fortunate when I snagged my old Larios Horizontal.
Damned old girl is tight as can be. I love it!!!!

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...6802602/Larios

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink

Gimmer

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Pete Keillor wrote:

What do those of you with horizontal mills do for swarf? I finally
got the Hardinge TM mill cranked up and cutting, and have found the
swarf much more obnoxious than lathe stuff. I probably need to
increase feeds to make bigger chunks, but a shield might contain some
of the mess, too.
I don;'t have a horizontal mill, just vertical, but sometimes use
side milling cutters typical on a horizontal. They DO produce a LOT
of chips quickly! I have made two plexiglas shields that fit around the
table to contain the chips. You have to literally shovel them out after
a while.

Jon

Pete Keillor wrote:


I've just done conventional. I'm guessing climb milling for finish is
more of a concern with an end mill.
Oh, no! If a large side mill digs in and pushes the table, it can easily
bend the arbor or cause other disasters. I think the larger the diameter
or the wider the width of the cut, the more dangerous a climb mill pass
can be. Id say ONLY if you have near zero-backlash screws should you
try climb milling on any heavy cut.



Thanks, DoN. This mill has a pump, but I suspect it used oil, sump
isn't very large, probably about a gallon. I doubt I'll use it. I
will use the old x-axis feed gearbox, just need the right belt.
If you do aluminum, coolant is great! The main aim is to keep the
workpiece cool. If aluminum heats up even a little, it becomes much
more tricky to cut. Not far at all between oil smoking a little and
the cutter becoming a huge glob of (workpiece) metal. And, of course,
DAMHIKT!

Jon

On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 14:31:44 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

Pete Keillor wrote:


I've just done conventional. I'm guessing climb milling for finish is
more of a concern with an end mill.
Oh, no! If a large side mill digs in and pushes the table, it can easily
bend the arbor or cause other disasters. I think the larger the diameter
or the wider the width of the cut, the more dangerous a climb mill pass
can be. Id say ONLY if you have near zero-backlash screws should you
try climb milling on any heavy cut.

Thanks for the input, Jon. I was trying to say conventional doesn't
seem to recut chips on a horizontal as much as I'd suspect an end mill
in a pocket would. Gunner disagreed. I also said I wouldn't try climb
milling on a bet on this mill, because the leadscrew is way too worn.
As a matter of fact, the acme thread looks like a sharp v on top in
the middle of the screw. Screw and nuts need replacing bad, and will
be.

Pete


Thanks, DoN. This mill has a pump, but I suspect it used oil, sump
isn't very large, probably about a gallon. I doubt I'll use it. I
will use the old x-axis feed gearbox, just need the right belt.
If you do aluminum, coolant is great! The main aim is to keep the
workpiece cool. If aluminum heats up even a little, it becomes much
more tricky to cut. Not far at all between oil smoking a little and
the cutter becoming a huge glob of (workpiece) metal. And, of course,
DAMHIKT!

Jon

Pete Keillor wrote:


Thanks for the input, Jon. I was trying to say conventional doesn't
seem to recut chips on a horizontal as much as I'd suspect an end mill
in a pocket would. Gunner disagreed. I also said I wouldn't try climb
milling on a bet on this mill, because the leadscrew is way too worn.
As a matter of fact, the acme thread looks like a sharp v on top in
the middle of the screw. Screw and nuts need replacing bad, and will
be.
Oh, MY! Yes, that's pretty bad wear. Also, a lot of differential
wear makes measuring off the screw pretty inaccurate, less a problem
on the X axis of a horizontal, but sometimes you need to stop at a
particular spot.

Yes, I pretty much agree with Gunner, climb really improves surface finish,
especially on Aluminum, and also helps protect the cutting edges.
With conventional, the tooth slides across the just-cut surface until
the pressure increases enough to punch through and start cutting.
With climb, the tooth hits the un-cut edge and immediately plunges
into the cut. This causes less wear. It also cleanly slices any
chips that spun around on the cutter.

Jon

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Pete Keillor wrote:


Thanks for the input, Jon. I was trying to say conventional doesn't
seem to recut chips on a horizontal as much as I'd suspect an end mill
in a pocket would. Gunner disagreed. I also said I wouldn't try climb
milling on a bet on this mill, because the leadscrew is way too worn.
As a matter of fact, the acme thread looks like a sharp v on top in
the middle of the screw. Screw and nuts need replacing bad, and will
be.
Oh, MY! Yes, that's pretty bad wear. Also, a lot of differential
wear makes measuring off the screw pretty inaccurate, less a problem
on the X axis of a horizontal, but sometimes you need to stop at a
particular spot.

Yes, I pretty much agree with Gunner, climb really improves surface
finish,
especially on Aluminum, and also helps protect the cutting edges.
With conventional, the tooth slides across the just-cut surface until
the pressure increases enough to punch through and start cutting.
With climb, the tooth hits the un-cut edge and immediately plunges
into the cut. This causes less wear. It also cleanly slices any
chips that spun around on the cutter.



Take rounging cuts conventional then snug your table lock and lightly climb
cut for a finish pass.