So I'm probably buying a used Fadal mill. It is currently wired for
480 volts. The shop it is in uses an inverter to convert the incoming
240 single phase to 3 phase which is then sent to a step up xmfr and
then to the mill. The RPC maker is no longer in business so I can't
ask them if the RPC I have can be connected to the xmfr. Can this be
done? I think I can re-configure the mill to run on 240 volts but I'm
not sure. Furthermore, there are already wires in my shop that can
supply power to the Fadal but I think the gauge might be too small for
the amperage draw if the Fadal is wired for 240. Adding wire would be
kind of a pain as I would need to pull wire through about 40 feet of
conduit. I can do it but it's a pain plus I would need to buy 180 feet
of wire because the machine is 3 phase and there is another 15 feet of
wireway the wire needs to go in. The wireway is the kind where you
just remove the covers and lay the wire in. The conduit goes from the
wireway up the wall 18 feet up, across the building, and then down
the wall to the wireway on the opposite wall.
Thanks,
Eric

wrote in message
...
So I'm probably buying a used Fadal mill. It is currently wired for
480 volts. The shop it is in uses an inverter to convert the incoming
240 single phase to 3 phase which is then sent to a step up xmfr and
then to the mill. The RPC maker is no longer in business so I can't
ask them if the RPC I have can be connected to the xmfr. Can this be
done? I think I can re-configure the mill to run on 240 volts but I'm
not sure. Furthermore, there are already wires in my shop that can
supply power to the Fadal but I think the gauge might be too small for
the amperage draw if the Fadal is wired for 240. Adding wire would be
kind of a pain as I would need to pull wire through about 40 feet of
conduit. I can do it but it's a pain plus I would need to buy 180 feet
of wire because the machine is 3 phase and there is another 15 feet of
wireway the wire needs to go in. The wireway is the kind where you
just remove the covers and lay the wire in. The conduit goes from the
wireway up the wall 18 feet up, across the building, and then down
the wall to the wireway on the opposite wall.
Thanks,


Every Fadal I've ever seen except for thew single-phase models has a
built-in multi-tap transformer inside of the rear cabinet which allows
connection to any mains voltage between 190 and 510 volts.

That said, unless your phase/phase voltages are all within 5% or so of each
other, you may need to rotate your phases so that the 100v AC bus isn't low
because this may cause problems with relay chatter, sluggish carousel
rotation and so forth.

Other thing is IF it has rigid tapping, and your wild leg is more than 5%
above /below the others, then there is parameter setting you need to take a
look at and correct if necessary...otherwise it will affect the spindle
accel /decel time constant possibly causing breakage of small diameter taps
and overly loose fits on the larger ones.

Sounds like PM is pretty sure you can change your Fadal. That's the
better way to go.

You can also use a three phase transformer to step up to 480. I do it
for my plasma cutter. I had to play with the taps the get the voltages
right.

Karl

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:V9mdnb2LPYSnUjPTnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@scnresearch. com...

wrote in message
...
So I'm probably buying a used Fadal mill. It is currently wired for
480 volts. The shop it is in uses an inverter to convert the incoming
240 single phase to 3 phase which is then sent to a step up xmfr and
then to the mill. The RPC maker is no longer in business so I can't
ask them if the RPC I have can be connected to the xmfr. Can this be
done? I think I can re-configure the mill to run on 240 volts but I'm
not sure. Furthermore, there are already wires in my shop that can
supply power to the Fadal but I think the gauge might be too small for
the amperage draw if the Fadal is wired for 240. Adding wire would be
kind of a pain as I would need to pull wire through about 40 feet of
conduit. I can do it but it's a pain plus I would need to buy 180 feet
of wire because the machine is 3 phase and there is another 15 feet of
wireway the wire needs to go in. The wireway is the kind where you
just remove the covers and lay the wire in. The conduit goes from the
wireway up the wall 18 feet up, across the building, and then down
the wall to the wireway on the opposite wall.
Thanks,


Every Fadal I've ever seen except for thew single-phase models has a
built-in multi-tap transformer inside of the rear cabinet which allows
connection to any mains voltage between 190 and 510 volts.

That said, unless your phase/phase voltages are all within 5% or so of
each other, you may need to rotate your phases so that the 100v AC bus
isn't low because this may cause problems with relay chatter, sluggish
carousel rotation and so forth.

Other thing is IF it has rigid tapping, and your wild leg is more than 5%
above /below the others, then there is parameter setting you need to take
a look at and correct if necessary...otherwise it will affect the spindle
accel /decel time constant possibly causing breakage of small diameter
taps and overly loose fits on the larger ones.


I guess I should add that I have 3 fadals here, two are 3ph I run both of
those pretty much all day 5 days a week off of an RPC and only rarely is
there a problem.

In any event, you want to make absolutely sure that in the event of a
momentary power outage, your rotary unit will shut down and that it will NOT
try and restart by itself

--otherwise, you are risking serious damage to the equipment...and even so,
you will still want keep set of spare mains fuses and a backup surge
supressor card and / or some 250vac rated varisters on hand.

The proper fuses are class RK1, ( fast acting ) and if you replace them with
a different variety or if you permanently remove your surge supressor card
then you are a blithering idiot.

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
Sounds like PM is pretty sure you can change your Fadal. That's the
better way to go.

You can also use a three phase transformer to step up to 480. I do it
for my plasma cutter. I had to play with the taps the get the voltages
right.


I step up here also, with a 30kva dry type delta/delta and also with an old
400amp welding transformer that Iv'e reconfigured to operate as a wye
autotransformer..

But depending on exact winding configuration and conection, issues can arise
with isolation, detection of load-side ground fault detection at the supply
side, loss of one phase, so forth and so on...

As such, it's probably the topic for a different discussion.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:14:09 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:V9mdnb2LPYSnUjPTnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@scnresearch .com...

wrote in message
...
So I'm probably buying a used Fadal mill. It is currently wired for
480 volts. The shop it is in uses an inverter to convert the incoming
240 single phase to 3 phase which is then sent to a step up xmfr and
then to the mill. The RPC maker is no longer in business so I can't
ask them if the RPC I have can be connected to the xmfr. Can this be
done? I think I can re-configure the mill to run on 240 volts but I'm
not sure. Furthermore, there are already wires in my shop that can
supply power to the Fadal but I think the gauge might be too small for
the amperage draw if the Fadal is wired for 240. Adding wire would be
kind of a pain as I would need to pull wire through about 40 feet of
conduit. I can do it but it's a pain plus I would need to buy 180 feet
of wire because the machine is 3 phase and there is another 15 feet of
wireway the wire needs to go in. The wireway is the kind where you
just remove the covers and lay the wire in. The conduit goes from the
wireway up the wall 18 feet up, across the building, and then down
the wall to the wireway on the opposite wall.
Thanks,


Every Fadal I've ever seen except for thew single-phase models has a
built-in multi-tap transformer inside of the rear cabinet which allows
connection to any mains voltage between 190 and 510 volts.

That said, unless your phase/phase voltages are all within 5% or so of
each other, you may need to rotate your phases so that the 100v AC bus
isn't low because this may cause problems with relay chatter, sluggish
carousel rotation and so forth.

Other thing is IF it has rigid tapping, and your wild leg is more than 5%
above /below the others, then there is parameter setting you need to take
a look at and correct if necessary...otherwise it will affect the spindle
accel /decel time constant possibly causing breakage of small diameter
taps and overly loose fits on the larger ones.


I guess I should add that I have 3 fadals here, two are 3ph I run both of
those pretty much all day 5 days a week off of an RPC and only rarely is
there a problem.

In any event, you want to make absolutely sure that in the event of a
momentary power outage, your rotary unit will shut down and that it will NOT
try and restart by itself

--otherwise, you are risking serious damage to the equipment...and even so,
you will still want keep set of spare mains fuses and a backup surge
supressor card and / or some 250vac rated varisters on hand.

The proper fuses are class RK1, ( fast acting ) and if you replace them with
a different variety or if you permanently remove your surge supressor card
then you are a blithering idiot.

Greetings Karl and PM,
Thanks both for your speedy replies. After reading your posts and the
installation manual it looks like I may need to run the XMFR. Even
though the machine can be adjusted to run on 240 volts I think the
surge suppressor board in the machine is the one for over 240 volts.
If that's the case then maybe I need to supply the higher voltage.
Since the machine comes with the xmfr it's up to me whether to wire it
in. The manual says to use 10 gauge wire if running at 480 volts less
than 100 feet. And I'm really happy to see that Fadals are being run
of an RPC. My RPC has been trouble free for 12 years or so and runs
two machines with Fanuc controls. And it will not re-start after a
power outage. Which is good since here on Whidbey Island we get
several power outages or brownouts every time it gets windy.
Cheers,
Eric

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:14:09 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:V9mdnb2LPYSnUjPTnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@scnresearc h.com...

wrote in message
...
So I'm probably buying a used Fadal mill. It is currently wired for
480 volts. The shop it is in uses an inverter to convert the incoming
240 single phase to 3 phase which is then sent to a step up xmfr and
then to the mill. The RPC maker is no longer in business so I can't
ask them if the RPC I have can be connected to the xmfr. Can this be
done? I think I can re-configure the mill to run on 240 volts but I'm
not sure. Furthermore, there are already wires in my shop that can
supply power to the Fadal but I think the gauge might be too small for
the amperage draw if the Fadal is wired for 240. Adding wire would be
kind of a pain as I would need to pull wire through about 40 feet of
conduit. I can do it but it's a pain plus I would need to buy 180 feet
of wire because the machine is 3 phase and there is another 15 feet of
wireway the wire needs to go in. The wireway is the kind where you
just remove the covers and lay the wire in. The conduit goes from the
wireway up the wall 18 feet up, across the building, and then down
the wall to the wireway on the opposite wall.
Thanks,


Every Fadal I've ever seen except for thew single-phase models has a
built-in multi-tap transformer inside of the rear cabinet which allows
connection to any mains voltage between 190 and 510 volts.

That said, unless your phase/phase voltages are all within 5% or so of
each other, you may need to rotate your phases so that the 100v AC bus
isn't low because this may cause problems with relay chatter, sluggish
carousel rotation and so forth.

Other thing is IF it has rigid tapping, and your wild leg is more than
5%
above /below the others, then there is parameter setting you need to
take
a look at and correct if necessary...otherwise it will affect the
spindle
accel /decel time constant possibly causing breakage of small diameter
taps and overly loose fits on the larger ones.


I guess I should add that I have 3 fadals here, two are 3ph I run both of
those pretty much all day 5 days a week off of an RPC and only rarely is
there a problem.

In any event, you want to make absolutely sure that in the event of a
momentary power outage, your rotary unit will shut down and that it will
NOT
try and restart by itself

--otherwise, you are risking serious damage to the equipment...and even
so,
you will still want keep set of spare mains fuses and a backup surge
supressor card and / or some 250vac rated varisters on hand.

The proper fuses are class RK1, ( fast acting ) and if you replace them
with
a different variety or if you permanently remove your surge supressor card
then you are a blithering idiot.

Greetings Karl and PM,
Thanks both for your speedy replies. After reading your posts and the
installation manual it looks like I may need to run the XMFR. Even
though the machine can be adjusted to run on 240 volts I think the
surge suppressor board in the machine is the one for over 240 volts.
If that's the case then maybe I need to supply the higher voltage.
Since the machine comes with the xmfr it's up to me whether to wire it
in. The manual says to use 10 gauge wire if running at 480 volts less
than 100 feet. And I'm really happy to see that Fadals are being run
of an RPC. My RPC has been trouble free for 12 years or so and runs
two machines with Fanuc controls. And it will not re-start after a
power outage. Which is good since here on Whidbey Island we get
several power outages or brownouts every time it gets windy.
Cheers,


Well I'd probably just change the surge supressor to 250 volts and sell the
transformer on Craigslist but I guess that's just me.

Just curious...what is the model and serial number ( year ) on your Fadal--I
can probably provide a lot of help /information...

Oh and here's a "heads up" for you--(if it's a box way machine) the first
thing to do is put an indicator in the spindle, touch the table with it and
set a zero, then you move the table all the way left, all the way right and
all the way in and out...any rise /fall seen in this test means that the
turcite is worn out and you probably want to look at buying a different
machine.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:46:26 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

So I'm probably buying a used Fadal mill. It is currently wired for
480 volts. The shop it is in uses an inverter to convert the incoming
240 single phase to 3 phase which is then sent to a step up xmfr and
then to the mill. The RPC maker is no longer in business so I can't
ask them if the RPC I have can be connected to the xmfr. Can this be
done?

Yes, you can hook a 3-phase step-up transformer to the output of the
RPC, but you get the loss of the transformer in the circuit. See
below.

I think I can re-configure the mill to run on 240 volts but I'm
not sure. Furthermore, there are already wires in my shop that can
supply power to the Fadal but I think the gauge might be too small for
the amperage draw if the Fadal is wired for 240. Adding wire would be
kind of a pain as I would need to pull wire through about 40 feet of
conduit.

You have to repull the wires if they will be operating at 240V.

Even if you put the Rotary Converter and the step-up transformer right
at the power panel and send 480V down those wires that are now
miraculously large enough, you _still_ have to run new wire - you need
to add a third hot leg to send the 3-phase to the machine.

Either way, it has to be done.

I can do it but it's a pain plus I would need to buy 180 feet
of wire because the machine is 3 phase and there is another 15 feet of
wireway the wire needs to go in. The wireway is the kind where you
just remove the covers and lay the wire in. The conduit goes from the
wireway up the wall 18 feet up, across the building, and then down
the wall to the wireway on the opposite wall.
Thanks,
Eric

Watts Is Watts - when you double the voltage you cut the amperage in
half and can use smaller wires, but the Watts remain the same.

If you run the RPC and Step-up transformer the Mill draws the same
watts either way. But you have the losses from running the
transformer too,you lose some power in the conversion, you put in 110%
to get 100% out.

And it wastes a significant number of watts energizing the transformer
even when it sits idle - feel it, it's warm...

Pulling new wire to beef up the 240V power at the machine location is
by far cheaper than any other solution.

Adding a proper 240V 3-Ph or 480V 3-Ph service is not cheap and darned
near impossible in a residential area. And if you don't have all
three phases of the 4KV or 15KV or 35KV distribution power already at
your pole, and they have to extend the third leg a few miles to get it
to your location that could easily hit six figures.

The mill most likely has dual-wound motors, that's the standard. If
it does, you're not too far away from making chips. Install the
bigger breaker and the bigger wire, install the RPC next to the
machine, wire the 240V 3-Ph straight to the machine, and go.

-- Bruce --

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:10:33 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:46:26 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

So I'm probably buying a used Fadal mill. It is currently wired for
480 volts. The shop it is in uses an inverter to convert the incoming
240 single phase to 3 phase which is then sent to a step up xmfr and
then to the mill. The RPC maker is no longer in business so I can't
ask them if the RPC I have can be connected to the xmfr. Can this be
done?

Yes, you can hook a 3-phase step-up transformer to the output of the
RPC, but you get the loss of the transformer in the circuit. See
below.

I think I can re-configure the mill to run on 240 volts but I'm
not sure. Furthermore, there are already wires in my shop that can
supply power to the Fadal but I think the gauge might be too small for
the amperage draw if the Fadal is wired for 240. Adding wire would be
kind of a pain as I would need to pull wire through about 40 feet of
conduit.

You have to repull the wires if they will be operating at 240V.

Even if you put the Rotary Converter and the step-up transformer right
at the power panel and send 480V down those wires that are now
miraculously large enough, you _still_ have to run new wire - you need
to add a third hot leg to send the 3-phase to the machine.

Either way, it has to be done.

I can do it but it's a pain plus I would need to buy 180 feet
of wire because the machine is 3 phase and there is another 15 feet of
wireway the wire needs to go in. The wireway is the kind where you
just remove the covers and lay the wire in. The conduit goes from the
wireway up the wall 18 feet up, across the building, and then down
the wall to the wireway on the opposite wall.
Thanks,
Eric

Watts Is Watts - when you double the voltage you cut the amperage in
half and can use smaller wires, but the Watts remain the same.

If you run the RPC and Step-up transformer the Mill draws the same
watts either way. But you have the losses from running the
transformer too,you lose some power in the conversion, you put in 110%
to get 100% out.

And it wastes a significant number of watts energizing the transformer
even when it sits idle - feel it, it's warm...

Pulling new wire to beef up the 240V power at the machine location is
by far cheaper than any other solution.

Adding a proper 240V 3-Ph or 480V 3-Ph service is not cheap and darned
near impossible in a residential area. And if you don't have all
three phases of the 4KV or 15KV or 35KV distribution power already at
your pole, and they have to extend the third leg a few miles to get it
to your location that could easily hit six figures.

The mill most likely has dual-wound motors, that's the standard. If
it does, you're not too far away from making chips. Install the
bigger breaker and the bigger wire, install the RPC next to the
machine, wire the 240V 3-Ph straight to the machine, and go.

-- Bruce --
Greetings Bruce,
I already have # 8 or # 6 wires in the conduit for a machine that's
leaving. I just don't remember what gauge and it's probably the
lighter gauge. If I have the heavier gauge then that's great and I may
be able to get rid of the xmfr. If not then I'll connect the machine
with the xmfr and when I have some time and some help and some more
money pull some new wire and get rid of the xmfr.
Thanks,
Eric

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:45:21 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:14:09 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:V9mdnb2LPYSnUjPTnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@scnresear ch.com...

wrote in message
...
So I'm probably buying a used Fadal mill. It is currently wired for
480 volts. The shop it is in uses an inverter to convert the incoming
240 single phase to 3 phase which is then sent to a step up xmfr and
then to the mill. The RPC maker is no longer in business so I can't
ask them if the RPC I have can be connected to the xmfr. Can this be
done? I think I can re-configure the mill to run on 240 volts but I'm
not sure. Furthermore, there are already wires in my shop that can
supply power to the Fadal but I think the gauge might be too small for
the amperage draw if the Fadal is wired for 240. Adding wire would be
kind of a pain as I would need to pull wire through about 40 feet of
conduit. I can do it but it's a pain plus I would need to buy 180 feet
of wire because the machine is 3 phase and there is another 15 feet of
wireway the wire needs to go in. The wireway is the kind where you
just remove the covers and lay the wire in. The conduit goes from the
wireway up the wall 18 feet up, across the building, and then down
the wall to the wireway on the opposite wall.
Thanks,


Every Fadal I've ever seen except for thew single-phase models has a
built-in multi-tap transformer inside of the rear cabinet which allows
connection to any mains voltage between 190 and 510 volts.

That said, unless your phase/phase voltages are all within 5% or so of
each other, you may need to rotate your phases so that the 100v AC bus
isn't low because this may cause problems with relay chatter, sluggish
carousel rotation and so forth.

Other thing is IF it has rigid tapping, and your wild leg is more than
5%
above /below the others, then there is parameter setting you need to
take
a look at and correct if necessary...otherwise it will affect the
spindle
accel /decel time constant possibly causing breakage of small diameter
taps and overly loose fits on the larger ones.


I guess I should add that I have 3 fadals here, two are 3ph I run both of
those pretty much all day 5 days a week off of an RPC and only rarely is
there a problem.

In any event, you want to make absolutely sure that in the event of a
momentary power outage, your rotary unit will shut down and that it will
NOT
try and restart by itself

--otherwise, you are risking serious damage to the equipment...and even
so,
you will still want keep set of spare mains fuses and a backup surge
supressor card and / or some 250vac rated varisters on hand.

The proper fuses are class RK1, ( fast acting ) and if you replace them
with
a different variety or if you permanently remove your surge supressor card
then you are a blithering idiot.

Greetings Karl and PM,
Thanks both for your speedy replies. After reading your posts and the
installation manual it looks like I may need to run the XMFR. Even
though the machine can be adjusted to run on 240 volts I think the
surge suppressor board in the machine is the one for over 240 volts.
If that's the case then maybe I need to supply the higher voltage.
Since the machine comes with the xmfr it's up to me whether to wire it
in. The manual says to use 10 gauge wire if running at 480 volts less
than 100 feet. And I'm really happy to see that Fadals are being run
of an RPC. My RPC has been trouble free for 12 years or so and runs
two machines with Fanuc controls. And it will not re-start after a
power outage. Which is good since here on Whidbey Island we get
several power outages or brownouts every time it gets windy.
Cheers,


Well I'd probably just change the surge supressor to 250 volts and sell the
transformer on Craigslist but I guess that's just me.

Just curious...what is the model and serial number ( year ) on your Fadal--I
can probably provide a lot of help /information...

Oh and here's a "heads up" for you--(if it's a box way machine) the first
thing to do is put an indicator in the spindle, touch the table with it and
set a zero, then you move the table all the way left, all the way right and
all the way in and out...any rise /fall seen in this test means that the
turcite is worn out and you probably want to look at buying a different
machine.

The machine is a linear way machine. It's in a shop where I've been
working mostly for the last year or so. So I know the recent history
of the machine and how well it runs. The shop owner is closing the
shop which is why the machine is even up for sale. The model # is
914-15, the date is 1996, serial # 9603340. So, since I can feed the
xmfr with the RPC I'll do that for now because it is working that way
now and the machine comes with the xmfr. Then down the road get the
250 volt suppressor, pull wire if need be, and sell the xmfr to cover
the cost of the change. Thanks for the offer of help.
Eric

wrote in message
...

The machine is a linear way machine.

That's probably a good thing, more than likely it has no central lube system
and uses grease instead--make sure and use the proper grease and give it a
squirt or two every couple weeks whether you've been running it or
not...this is definately a case where a little bit fairly often is much
better than a whole lot every once in a while.

It's in a shop where I've been
working mostly for the last year or so. So I know the recent history
of the machine and how well it runs. The shop owner is closing the
shop which is why the machine is even up for sale. The model # is
914-15, the date is 1996, serial # 9603340.

Then it's a vmc-15, and was made in same year as my smallest Fadal which is
happens to be serial #9603180

In all likelyhood you will have the 1400-4 cpu--I STRONGLY suggest don't
upgrade to the -5 cpu athough if the module 1610-xx exec card that's
attached onto the 1400-xx card is any earlier than ver94.1 p4-3, (which was
the final revision available for the -4 cpu ) then you probably should get
the program update, if you have problem sourcing one let me know I have
several extras you can have


So, since I can feed the
xmfr with the RPC I'll do that for now because it is working that way
now and the machine comes with the xmfr. Then down the road get the
250 volt suppressor, pull wire if need be, and sell the xmfr to cover
the cost of the change. Thanks for the offer of help.

Hey whatever works...

--and if it turns out your phase converter isn't quite big enough to cover
all of your machines at the same time well you'll probably know it before
too long and most likely no actual harm will be done.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:47:13 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

The machine is a linear way machine.

That's probably a good thing, more than likely it has no central lube system
and uses grease instead--make sure and use the proper grease and give it a
squirt or two every couple weeks whether you've been running it or
not...this is definately a case where a little bit fairly often is much
better than a whole lot every once in a while.

It's in a shop where I've been
working mostly for the last year or so. So I know the recent history
of the machine and how well it runs. The shop owner is closing the
shop which is why the machine is even up for sale. The model # is
914-15, the date is 1996, serial # 9603340.

Then it's a vmc-15, and was made in same year as my smallest Fadal which is
happens to be serial #9603180

In all likelyhood you will have the 1400-4 cpu--I STRONGLY suggest don't
upgrade to the -5 cpu athough if the module 1610-xx exec card that's
attached onto the 1400-xx card is any earlier than ver94.1 p4-3, (which was
the final revision available for the -4 cpu ) then you probably should get
the program update, if you have problem sourcing one let me know I have
several extras you can have


So, since I can feed the
xmfr with the RPC I'll do that for now because it is working that way
now and the machine comes with the xmfr. Then down the road get the
250 volt suppressor, pull wire if need be, and sell the xmfr to cover
the cost of the change. Thanks for the offer of help.

Hey whatever works...

--and if it turns out your phase converter isn't quite big enough to cover
all of your machines at the same time well you'll probably know it before
too long and most likely no actual harm will be done.

It will start 15hp and run 60. And it will start the CNC lathe with a
10hp DC spindle drive and the CNC mill with a 5hp induction motor
spindle at the same time. But that hardly ever happens. The new to me
lathe has a 15 hp spindle so I'll need to be careful when its spindle
is programmed flat out so that it won't start the spindle when
something else is trying to start. If it becomes a problem then it
means I'm busy enough to afford buying a solid state three phase
solution.
Eric

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 19:38:46 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

-- Bruce --
Greetings Bruce,
I already have # 8 or # 6 wires in the conduit for a machine that's
leaving. I just don't remember what gauge and it's probably the
lighter gauge. If I have the heavier gauge then that's great and I may
be able to get rid of the xmfr. If not then I'll connect the machine
with the xmfr and when I have some time and some help and some more
money pull some new wire and get rid of the xmfr.
Thanks,
Eric

Before you start all the work on the install at 240V 1-Ph and the RPC
and step-up transformer and all the associated garbage...

Call the Utility wonks on your island and ask them what the hoops are
to get a second transformer set and run an Open Delta 3-phase 240V
line - they do that a LOT for smaller loads like well pumps and
elevator machines. If you don't ask, you'll never know.

Better, they place two more small transformers so you can have Delta
240V. Best, a separate rack of transformers for 277/480V Wye or 480V
Delta 3-Ph service - and if you mess up Real Bad you won't knock out
your lights too.

You might get lucky and they won't charge a ton for the service
transformer rack and the hookup. Helps if you let them know where to
go and get a custom part machined up in a hurry, too.

If they'll hook you up for a reasonable fee, you can always get a
slightly used 240V or 480V "Instant Service Switchboard" from a used
equipment broker and you can be up with Real 3-Phase fairly quickly,
and for not all that much.

And like PM said, changing out the surge arrestor boards is cheap if
that's all you need to run it native at 240V. Keep It Simple, Son!

-- Bruce --

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 23:19:22 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 19:38:46 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

-- Bruce --
Greetings Bruce,
I already have # 8 or # 6 wires in the conduit for a machine that's
leaving. I just don't remember what gauge and it's probably the
lighter gauge. If I have the heavier gauge then that's great and I may
be able to get rid of the xmfr. If not then I'll connect the machine
with the xmfr and when I have some time and some help and some more
money pull some new wire and get rid of the xmfr.
Thanks,
Eric

Before you start all the work on the install at 240V 1-Ph and the RPC
and step-up transformer and all the associated garbage...

Call the Utility wonks on your island and ask them what the hoops are
to get a second transformer set and run an Open Delta 3-phase 240V
line - they do that a LOT for smaller loads like well pumps and
elevator machines. If you don't ask, you'll never know.

Better, they place two more small transformers so you can have Delta
240V. Best, a separate rack of transformers for 277/480V Wye or 480V
Delta 3-Ph service - and if you mess up Real Bad you won't knock out
your lights too.

You might get lucky and they won't charge a ton for the service
transformer rack and the hookup. Helps if you let them know where to
go and get a custom part machined up in a hurry, too.

If they'll hook you up for a reasonable fee, you can always get a
slightly used 240V or 480V "Instant Service Switchboard" from a used
equipment broker and you can be up with Real 3-Phase fairly quickly,
and for not all that much.

And like PM said, changing out the surge arrestor boards is cheap if
that's all you need to run it native at 240V. Keep It Simple, Son!

-- Bruce --
Greetings Bruce,
The nearest 3 phase is a little over 1000 feet from my shop. Back in
1997 I was quoted $15,000 just for the wire. Then $1800 per pole
because the poles carring 3 phase have to be taller than the ones
carrying single phase. I guess that was their way of saying no. They
did however push under the road from the pole across from my place for
what amounted to no charge. So I have 600 amps available. Thanks for
the advice though. It never hurts to ask in these tyoes of situations.
Since I already have a shop all powered up it's no hassle now dealing
with the RPC because it's been running for years.
Eric