I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius. Like
2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but can't find
either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime what's the best
way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand. If I do that, do I
bend it around something round, or just bend it slowly and cautiously?

Steve

I have a similiar dilema. Refrigeration units that store salads and foods
with high acid content, eat up the condensate line (condenser high side line
that dissipates the drain water in a pan). The radius is like you say about
two inches and all the benders I can find are larger radius than that. Oh
and I need 180 degree bends to get as much surface area as possible. If I
lose a complete pass, due to space, it will not get rid of the water and we
now have a water leak to worry about. Harbor Freight has one that
works........but mine leaves a pretty good scar on the tubing on a 180
degree bend, and all the others on the shelf look identical with no
difference in quality. It seems the guide is too loose and crimps the
tubing, For the money it is not bad. I am half tempted to fashion a bender
out of some heavy wood using a 3/8" core box bit and woodworking router
(cutting the flutes as deep as possible). Another posibility is to stack
large flat washers between two flat pieces of steel and bend away. This may
require dissasembly for each bend but get you out of a bind. Good luck and
tell me what you came up with.
Lyndell


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve B"
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 9:35 PM
Subject: Bending copper tubing


I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius. Like
2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but can't find
either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime what's the best
way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand. If I do that, do I
bend it around something round, or just bend it slowly and cautiously?

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in message
.. .
I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius. Like
2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but can't find
either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime what's the best
way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand. If I do that, do I
bend it around something round, or just bend it slowly and cautiously?

Steve

I have tried the sand method and it did not work well for me. The classic
way to make the sharp bends on trumpets and such is to fill the pipe with
melted pitch and let cool. Another method is to fill with a water-detergent
mixture and freeze it. The detergent keeps the ice from becoming hard enough
to burst the pipe. Don't ask me what the right detergent concentration might
be.

"Lyndell Thompson" wrote in message
m...

I have a similiar dilema. Refrigeration units that store salads and foods
with high acid content, eat up the condensate line (condenser high side line
that dissipates the drain water in a pan). The radius is like you say about
two inches and all the benders I can find are larger radius than that. Oh
and I need 180 degree bends to get as much surface area as possible. If I
lose a complete pass, due to space, it will not get rid of the water and we
now have a water leak to worry about. Harbor Freight has one that
works........but mine leaves a pretty good scar on the tubing on a 180
degree bend, and all the others on the shelf look identical with no
difference in quality. It seems the guide is too loose and crimps the
tubing, For the money it is not bad. I am half tempted to fashion a bender
out of some heavy wood using a 3/8" core box bit and woodworking router
(cutting the flutes as deep as possible). Another posibility is to stack
large flat washers between two flat pieces of steel and bend away. This may
require dissasembly for each bend but get you out of a bind. Good luck and
tell me what you came up with.
Lyndell


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve B"
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 9:35 PM
Subject: Bending copper tubing


I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius. Like
2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but can't find
either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime what's the best
way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand. If I do that, do I
bend it around something round, or just bend it slowly and cautiously?

Steve

I have bent 3/8" and 1/4" copper tube to some tight radii by wrapping the
area to be bent closely with small copper wire and bending by hand.
Carefully.

Garrett Fulton

anorton wrote:

"Steve B" wrote in message
.. .
I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius.
Like 2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but
can't find either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime
what's the best way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of
sand. If I do that, do I bend it around something round, or just bend
it slowly and cautiously?

Steve

I have tried the sand method and it did not work well for me. The
classic way to make the sharp bends on trumpets and such is to fill the
pipe with melted pitch and let cool. Another method is to fill with a
water-detergent mixture and freeze it. The detergent keeps the ice from
becoming hard enough to burst the pipe. Don't ask me what the right
detergent concentration might be.

probably find it in this

http://www.copper.org/publications/p...e_handbook.pdf
--
Steve W.

Steve B wrote:
I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius. Like
2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but can't find
either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime what's the best
way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand. If I do that, do I
bend it around something round, or just bend it slowly and cautiously?

Steve



I bent some 10mm copper tube recently into a tighter radius and used
some nylon rod I had about inside the tube. I do have Cerrobend but
didn't want to use it at the time. The nylon was just slightly smaller
than the ID of the tube and after bending I could grip the rod in a vise
and twist the rod out without too much trouble, the subsequent bends I
lubricated the nylon which eased removal.

"Garrett Fulton" wrote in message
...


"Lyndell Thompson" wrote in message
m...

I have a similiar dilema. Refrigeration units that store salads and foods
with high acid content, eat up the condensate line (condenser high side
line
that dissipates the drain water in a pan). The radius is like you say
about
two inches and all the benders I can find are larger radius than that. Oh
and I need 180 degree bends to get as much surface area as possible. If I
lose a complete pass, due to space, it will not get rid of the water and
we
now have a water leak to worry about. Harbor Freight has one that
works........but mine leaves a pretty good scar on the tubing on a 180
degree bend, and all the others on the shelf look identical with no
difference in quality. It seems the guide is too loose and crimps the
tubing, For the money it is not bad. I am half tempted to fashion a
bender
out of some heavy wood using a 3/8" core box bit and woodworking router
(cutting the flutes as deep as possible). Another posibility is to stack
large flat washers between two flat pieces of steel and bend away. This
may
require dissasembly for each bend but get you out of a bind. Good luck and
tell me what you came up with.
Lyndell


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve B"
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 9:35 PM
Subject: Bending copper tubing


I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius.
Like 2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but
can't find either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime
what's the best way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand.
If I do that, do I bend it around something round, or just bend it slowly
and cautiously?

Steve

I have bent 3/8" and 1/4" copper tube to some tight radii by wrapping the
area to be bent closely with small copper wire and bending by hand.
Carefully.

Garrett Fulton


Good idea, I will try it. I could leave the wire on it for extra protection
and wear resistance. 14 guage solid wire?

Garrett Fulton wrote:

I have bent 3/8" and 1/4" copper tube to some tight radii by wrapping the
area to be bent closely with small copper wire and bending by hand.


Amateur radio types used to bend copper tubing by filling it with
sand to keep it from collapsing while bending.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Lyndell Thompson" fired this volley in
m:

Good idea, I will try it. I could leave the wire on it for extra
protection and wear resistance. 14 guage solid wire?

Steel wire will work better. Have you ever seen "spring benders"?

They're a little bit of a chore to get back off a tight bend, but they work
very well. I have a nice full set in my refrigeration kit. Just expect to
spend longer getting the bender back off the tubing than it took to put it
on and make the bend. Spin the bender in a direction to UNwind the spring,
and it will slowly screw itself off the tubing.

LLoyd

On Sat, 8 Oct 2011 23:50:36 -0700, "anorton"
wrote:


"Steve B" wrote in message
. ..
I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius. Like
2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but can't find
either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime what's the best
way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand. If I do that, do I
bend it around something round, or just bend it slowly and cautiously?

Steve

I have tried the sand method and it did not work well for me. The classic
way to make the sharp bends on trumpets and such is to fill the pipe with
melted pitch and let cool. Another method is to fill with a water-detergent
mixture and freeze it. The detergent keeps the ice from becoming hard enough
to burst the pipe. Don't ask me what the right detergent concentration might
be.
How about filling with melted paraffin wax and then just melt it out
after bending?

On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 08:59:17 +0200, "Garrett Fulton"
wrote:



"Lyndell Thompson" wrote in message
om...

I have a similiar dilema. Refrigeration units that store salads and foods
with high acid content, eat up the condensate line (condenser high side line
that dissipates the drain water in a pan). The radius is like you say about
two inches and all the benders I can find are larger radius than that. Oh
and I need 180 degree bends to get as much surface area as possible. If I
lose a complete pass, due to space, it will not get rid of the water and we
now have a water leak to worry about. Harbor Freight has one that
works........but mine leaves a pretty good scar on the tubing on a 180
degree bend, and all the others on the shelf look identical with no
difference in quality. It seems the guide is too loose and crimps the
tubing, For the money it is not bad. I am half tempted to fashion a bender
out of some heavy wood using a 3/8" core box bit and woodworking router
(cutting the flutes as deep as possible). Another posibility is to stack
large flat washers between two flat pieces of steel and bend away. This may
require dissasembly for each bend but get you out of a bind. Good luck and
tell me what you came up with.
Lyndell


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve B"
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 9:35 PM
Subject: Bending copper tubing


I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius. Like
2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but can't find
either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime what's the best
way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand. If I do that, do I
bend it around something round, or just bend it slowly and cautiously?

Steve

I have bent 3/8" and 1/4" copper tube to some tight radii by wrapping the
area to be bent closely with small copper wire and bending by hand.
Carefully.

Garrett Fulton
You may want to make sure the tubing is fully annealed first too.

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

They're usually a PITA to use, though,
and you can't use them on complete tubes, with flared connectors
already installed. I have several handheld benders for those.


So, don't flare the "U"s until you have them bent. This is a homebrew.

LLoyd

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 10:40:45 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 10:31:50 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Lyndell Thompson" fired this volley in
news:gPidnZKgyONQJQzTnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@insightbb. com:

Good idea, I will try it. I could leave the wire on it for extra
protection and wear resistance. 14 guage solid wire?

Steel wire will work better. Have you ever seen "spring benders"?

They're a little bit of a chore to get back off a tight bend, but they work
very well. I have a nice full set in my refrigeration kit. Just expect to
spend longer getting the bender back off the tubing than it took to put it
on and make the bend. Spin the bender in a direction to UNwind the spring,
and it will slowly screw itself off the tubing.

Or secure one end with lightly applied visegrips and unwind the spring
enough to pull it right off. They're usually a PITA to use, though,
and you can't use them on complete tubes, with flared connectors
already installed. I have several handheld benders for those.

"open coil" benders can be used on already flared tubes, you
justunwind the spring off the tube. Closed end coils CAN be used this
way as well, but a lot harder to get the end started unwinding without
damaging the spring.

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 20:46:47 +0100, Newshound
wrote:

On 09/10/2011 16:59, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Oct 2011 23:50:36 -0700, "anorton"
wrote:


"Steve wrote in message
.. .
I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius. Like
2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but can't find
either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime what's the best
way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand. If I do that, do I
bend it around something round, or just bend it slowly and cautiously?

Steve

I have tried the sand method and it did not work well for me. The classic
way to make the sharp bends on trumpets and such is to fill the pipe with
melted pitch and let cool. Another method is to fill with a water-detergent
mixture and freeze it. The detergent keeps the ice from becoming hard enough
to burst the pipe. Don't ask me what the right detergent concentration might
be.
How about filling with melted paraffin wax and then just melt it out
after bending?

I don't think that would be strong enough, I think it will just extrude
and the pipe will flatten. Molten lead is another option; there used to
be low melting point alloys specially for this (Cerrobend, in the UK).
Non-trade name is Woods Metal.
works just fine if you start with tube a bit longer than you need,
fill 1t 100", and crimp both ends of the tube shut before bending.
Also works best if the tube is at temp where the wax is still
"Plastic" - not totally hard.

Full of grease works too, but it is a lot harder to clean out.
Tallow would likely work too, and it never gets as hard as Paraffin. -
again, perhaps not as easy to totally clean out??

"Lyndell Thompson" wrote in message
m...


"Garrett Fulton" wrote in message
...


"Lyndell Thompson" wrote in message
m...

I have a similiar dilema. Refrigeration units that store salads and foods
with high acid content, eat up the condensate line (condenser high side
line
that dissipates the drain water in a pan). The radius is like you say
about
two inches and all the benders I can find are larger radius than that. Oh
and I need 180 degree bends to get as much surface area as possible. If I
lose a complete pass, due to space, it will not get rid of the water and
we
now have a water leak to worry about. Harbor Freight has one that
works........but mine leaves a pretty good scar on the tubing on a 180
degree bend, and all the others on the shelf look identical with no
difference in quality. It seems the guide is too loose and crimps the
tubing, For the money it is not bad. I am half tempted to fashion a
bender
out of some heavy wood using a 3/8" core box bit and woodworking router
(cutting the flutes as deep as possible). Another posibility is to stack
large flat washers between two flat pieces of steel and bend away. This
may
require dissasembly for each bend but get you out of a bind. Good luck and
tell me what you came up with.
Lyndell


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve B"
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 9:35 PM
Subject: Bending copper tubing


I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius. Like
2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but can't
find either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime what's
the best way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand. If I do
that, do I bend it around something round, or just bend it slowly and
cautiously?

Steve

I have bent 3/8" and 1/4" copper tube to some tight radii by wrapping the
area to be bent closely with small copper wire and bending by hand.
Carefully.

Garrett Fulton


Good idea, I will try it. I could leave the wire on it for extra protection
and wear resistance. 14 guage solid wire?

I always used .040 stainless lockwire. Don't see why the 14 guage copper
wouldn't work, but haven't tried it.

Garrett Fulton

On Oct 9, 12:50*am, "anorton"
wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message

.. .

I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius. *Like
2". * *I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but can't find
either. *Next week, I gotta get organized. *In the meantime what's the best
way to bend it? *I've heard of putting it full of sand. *If I do that, do I
bend it around something round, or just bend it slowly and cautiously?

Steve

I have tried the sand method and it did not work well for me. *The classic
way to make the sharp bends on trumpets and such is to fill the pipe with
melted pitch and let cool. *Another method is to fill with a water-detergent
mixture and freeze it. The detergent keeps the ice from becoming hard enough
to burst the pipe. Don't ask me what the right detergent concentration might
be.

I saw the program where they were making trombones, they used the soap
and water mixture there. I think sand has to be finer stuff than
playground sand, probably more like some grades of molding sand. The
classic production method for small tubing is Cerrobend as a filler,
melts in hot water. Wall thickness will have a lot to do with how
sharp a bend can be made, tubing is available in a lot of different
wall thicknesses. And I'd definitely run the stuff through a torch to
anneal it to dead soft before starting anything. Doesn't need to be
red heat, just enough to discolor it. It DOES make a difference.
Will probably take a number of tries before you get the right
combination.

Stan

Seems like a Delrin rod that was cut to 1/2 diameter with a
cutoff tool - every 1/2" or more or less - would provide some
give in a bend but would hold diameter. Pulling out from each
end might be logical - perhaps breaking a joint and freeing
the curvy bend. The smaller diameter is a temper fuse :-)

Martin

On 10/9/2011 4:08 AM, David Billington wrote:
Steve B wrote:
I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius.
Like 2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but
can't find either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime
what's the best way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand.
If I do that, do I bend it around something round, or just bend it
slowly and cautiously?

Steve

I bent some 10mm copper tube recently into a tighter radius and used
some nylon rod I had about inside the tube. I do have Cerrobend but
didn't want to use it at the time. The nylon was just slightly smaller
than the ID of the tube and after bending I could grip the rod in a vise
and twist the rod out without too much trouble, the subsequent bends I
lubricated the nylon which eased removal.

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:21:54 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Garrett Fulton wrote:

I have bent 3/8" and 1/4" copper tube to some tight radii by wrapping the
area to be bent closely with small copper wire and bending by hand.

Amateur radio types used to bend copper tubing by filling it with
sand to keep it from collapsing while bending.

I did some research on this question some months back when I wanted
to wind copper and aluminum coils to power a "putt-putt" ("pop-pop")
boat. "Spring coil" benders/winders are helpful up to a point (about
270deg), but with really tight turns it's hard to remove the spring
coil from the finished tubing coil.

Through some oversight I actually saved the links to a couple of
sources that I found useful:

Home Distiller: How to wind a perfect coil condenser
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewt...hp?f=2&t=11554

MetalGeek: How to Bend Tubing and Pipe by Hand
http://metalgeek.com/archives/2005/05/01/000047.php

Hope these are helpful.


Frank McKenney
--
"The true rule, in determining to embrace or reject any thing, is
not whether it has any evil in it; but whether it has more of
evil than of good. There are few things wholly evil or wholly
good. Almost every thing ... is an inseparable compound of the
two; so that our best judgment of the preponderance between them
is continually demanded." -- Abraham Lincoln
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com

On Sat, 8 Oct 2011 23:50:36 -0700, "anorton"
wrote:


"Steve B" wrote in message
. ..
I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius. Like
2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but can't find
either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime what's the best
way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand. If I do that, do I
bend it around something round, or just bend it slowly and cautiously?

Steve

I have tried the sand method and it did not work well for me. The classic
way to make the sharp bends on trumpets and such is to fill the pipe with
melted pitch and let cool. Another method is to fill with a water-detergent
mixture and freeze it. The detergent keeps the ice from becoming hard enough
to burst the pipe. Don't ask me what the right detergent concentration might
be.
Instead of sand I read about brown sugar used for bending. I tried it
and it worked well. Hard to get it into the 1/4 OD tubing though. It
took a really long time pounding it in with a 1/8 dia rod. But removal
was easy, just soaked in warm water.
Eric

How about filling with melted paraffin wax and then just melt it out
after bending?

I don't think that would be strong enough, I think it will just extrude
and the pipe will flatten. Molten lead is another option; there used to
be low melting point alloys specially for this (Cerrobend, in the UK).
Non-trade name is Woods Metal.

works just fine if you start with tube a bit longer than you need,
fill 1t 100", and crimp both ends of the tube shut before bending.
Also works best if the tube is at temp where the wax is still
"Plastic" - not totally hard.

Full of grease works too, but it is a lot harder to clean out.
Tallow would likely work too, and it never gets as hard as Paraffin. -
again, perhaps not as easy to totally clean out??

Fair enough if you have spare tube to play with.

Instead of sand I read about brown sugar used for bending. I tried it
and it worked well. Hard to get it into the 1/4 OD tubing though. It
took a really long time pounding it in with a 1/8 dia rod. But removal
was easy, just soaked in warm water.
Eric

Nice idea!

Martin Eastburn wrote:
Seems like a Delrin rod that was cut to 1/2 diameter with a
cutoff tool - every 1/2" or more or less - would provide some
give in a bend but would hold diameter. Pulling out from each
end might be logical - perhaps breaking a joint and freeing
the curvy bend. The smaller diameter is a temper fuse :-)

Martin

I was using a home made rotary draw bender for the job I did and was
bending the tubing to a fairly tight radius using a former I already had
made for some solid bar. I found the solid nylon worked fine without any
cuts and was fairly easy to remove when pre-lubricated. I think cutting
it might make the bending a bit easier but might also lead to the nylon
breaking on removal and making removing the remainder a bit of a pig. In
my case I just grabbed the nylon bar in the vise and grabbed the bent
copper tube and twisted and pulled and the nylon eased out of the bend.

On 10/9/2011 4:08 AM, David Billington wrote:
Steve B wrote:
I have some 3/8" copper tubing that I need to bend at a tight radius.
Like 2". I have the spiral bender, and another hand held type, but
can't find either. Next week, I gotta get organized. In the meantime
what's the best way to bend it? I've heard of putting it full of sand.
If I do that, do I bend it around something round, or just bend it
slowly and cautiously?

Steve

I bent some 10mm copper tube recently into a tighter radius and used
some nylon rod I had about inside the tube. I do have Cerrobend but
didn't want to use it at the time. The nylon was just slightly smaller
than the ID of the tube and after bending I could grip the rod in a vise
and twist the rod out without too much trouble, the subsequent bends I
lubricated the nylon which eased removal.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:38:47 +0100, Newshound
wrote:


How about filling with melted paraffin wax and then just melt it out
after bending?

I don't think that would be strong enough, I think it will just extrude
and the pipe will flatten. Molten lead is another option; there used to
be low melting point alloys specially for this (Cerrobend, in the UK).
Non-trade name is Woods Metal.

works just fine if you start with tube a bit longer than you need,
fill 1t 100", and crimp both ends of the tube shut before bending.
Also works best if the tube is at temp where the wax is still
"Plastic" - not totally hard.

Full of grease works too, but it is a lot harder to clean out.
Tallow would likely work too, and it never gets as hard as Paraffin. -
again, perhaps not as easy to totally clean out??

Fair enough if you have spare tube to play with.
2 inches is a problem for you?