SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's
a Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new
year begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out
of its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention
"stone" and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open
to suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

I would use 3M 5200 or 4200.

i

On 2011-09-25, jeff_wisnia wrote:
SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's
a Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new
year begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out
of its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention
"stone" and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open
to suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
...

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention "stone"
and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open to
suggestions.


Construction adhesive

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
...
SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's a
Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new year
begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out of
its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention "stone"
and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open to
suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.


Maybe consider SIKA-291. It slightly flexible when cured and seems to stick
very very well to just about anything, its also water proof. The down side
is once its stuck on there is little chance of getting it off. Comes in
black & white.

http://www.sika.com.au/cmi/pdfs/TDS_Sikaflex291.pdf

On 2011-09-25, Dennis wrote:

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
...
SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's a
Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new year
begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out of
its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention "stone"
and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open to
suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff



Maybe consider SIKA-291. It slightly flexible when cured and seems to stick
very very well to just about anything, its also water proof. The down side
is once its stuck on there is little chance of getting it off. Comes in
black & white.

http://www.sika.com.au/cmi/pdfs/TDS_Sikaflex291.pdf




Seems about similar to 3M 4200.

i

On Sep 24, 8:35*pm, jeff_wisnia
wrote:
SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's
a Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new
year begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out
of its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.


Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

I would talk to these folks. They may not be the right choice, but I
think they might be the best for granite to ceramic.

www.sauereisen.com/

Dan

On 9/24/2011 7:35 PM, jeff_wisnia wrote:
SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's
a Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new
year begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out
of its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention
"stone" and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the
like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open
to suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff


Epoxies tend not to stick well to metals. Oh, sure they can stick
but often pop loose at inopportune times.

No funnies intended, but I would highly recommend Goo in any of the
various packages. Shoe Goo, Goop, E6000, etc.

They stick tenaciously and remain flexible, an important point
when dissimilar expansion rates are involved.

On 9/24/2011 9:49 PM, Ignoramus18868 wrote:
On 2011-09-25, wrote:

wrote in message
...
SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's a
Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new year
begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out of
its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention "stone"
and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open to
suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff



Maybe consider SIKA-291. It slightly flexible when cured and seems to stick
very very well to just about anything, its also water proof. The down side
is once its stuck on there is little chance of getting it off. Comes in
black& white.

http://www.sika.com.au/cmi/pdfs/TDS_Sikaflex291.pdf




Seems about similar to 3M 4200.

i

Short term, yes, but in the long term Sikaflex is the stuff.
It never hardens - remains flexible forever.
Only down side is the price!

jeff_wisnia wrote:
SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's
a Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new
year begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out
of its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention
"stone" and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the
like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open
to suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff


I went through this a few years ago when I first started doing cemetery
grounds keeping. Talked to all of the stone crews about it and they all
told be the same thing. 3M block and stone adhesive (you can buy it in a
caulk tube at the most home supply places.
Works real well. You CLEAN the surface real well. Apply a small layer
(like you would doing tile) Now place the tile and clamp it in place.
Let it set about 8 hours and pull the clamps. It sets up weatherproof,
slightly flexible and TOUGH. Clean up any extra before it starts to set up.

--
Steve W.

"Richard" wrote in message
m...
On 9/24/2011 9:49 PM, Ignoramus18868 wrote:
On 2011-09-25, wrote:

wrote in message
...
SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today
(It's a
Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new year
begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out
of
its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave
up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface
it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention
"stone"
and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open
to
suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff



Maybe consider SIKA-291. It slightly flexible when cured and seems to
stick
very very well to just about anything, its also water proof. The down
side
is once its stuck on there is little chance of getting it off. Comes in
black& white.

http://www.sika.com.au/cmi/pdfs/TDS_Sikaflex291.pdf




Seems about similar to 3M 4200.

i

Short term, yes, but in the long term Sikaflex is the stuff.
It never hardens - remains flexible forever.
Only down side is the price!




Yeah, the Sika is great stuff.

It's costly but not over the top her in Oz. About $10 for a tube or $18 for
a cartridge.
I just hate it when the second half of the cartridge goes off before I get
to use it!

Sounds like a tube might do the OP's job.

Hey Jeff,

I can't speak for you area, but here the "monument companies" have
what I consider to be very reasonable rates. Maybe give one of them a
call and see what they would do it for. Sometimes there is a "marque"
somwhere to identify the company, or look at some more current stones
nearby to get a name.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:35:29 -0400, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's
a Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new
year begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out
of its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention
"stone" and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open
to suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff

On 9/24/2011 7:35 PM, jeff_wisnia wrote:
SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's
a Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new
year begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out
of its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention
"stone" and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the
like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open
to suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff



Jeff, the original was probably Plaster of Paris. It was and sometimes
still is the normal installation for marble and granite wall slabs. I
would contact a local monument company for their recommendation, but
would guess that construction adhesive, silicone, or polyurethane caulk
will be the reply.

On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 14:10:26 +0800, "Dennis"
wrote:


Yeah, the Sika is great stuff.

It's costly but not over the top her in Oz. About $10 for a tube or $18 for
a cartridge.
I just hate it when the second half of the cartridge goes off before I get
to use it!

Don't you use caulking condoms, boy? I swear by 'em.
http://littleredcap.com/ About $5 for a plastic "tin" of 25 at Ace.


Sounds like a tube might do the OP's job.

Ditto.

--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 14:10:26 +0800, "Dennis"
wrote:


Yeah, the Sika is great stuff.

It's costly but not over the top her in Oz. About $10 for a tube or $18
for
a cartridge.
I just hate it when the second half of the cartridge goes off before I get
to use it!

Don't you use caulking condoms, boy? I swear by 'em.
http://littleredcap.com/ About $5 for a plastic "tin" of 25 at Ace.



They look neat. I've never seen them here (Oz). I'll have to ask my hardware
guy about them.

cheers.




Sounds like a tube might do the OP's job.

Ditto.

--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:35:29 -0400, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's
a Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new
year begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out
of its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention
"stone" and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open
to suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff

They make a stuff for putting tile on stainless steel fireplaces.
Its is a bit drippy and pricey, but it an't coming back off.

I used the last of it fixing numerous holes in my simi trailer with
pennies and quarters. I tryed to get the lid off the gallon paint can
to the point of having the rolled edge of the lid straight and the
channel of the can sticking straight up. Should have taken a picture
of that, looked like someone was starving without a can opener and the
can won. Had to cut the side wall at the top of the can off. PX-85 or
something like that, would have to ask in a big city or good net
searching to find it.


SW

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 23:55:49 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 9/24/2011 7:35 PM, jeff_wisnia wrote:
SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's
a Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new
year begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out
of its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention
"stone" and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the
like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open
to suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff


Epoxies tend not to stick well to metals. Oh, sure they can stick
but often pop loose at inopportune times.

No funnies intended, but I would highly recommend Goo in any of the
various packages. Shoe Goo, Goop, E6000, etc.

They stick tenaciously and remain flexible, an important point
when dissimilar expansion rates are involved.


Or use urethane windsheild mounting adhesive - it will stick to
ANYTHING.

On Sep 24, 11:12*pm, " wrote:

I would talk to these folks. *They may not be the right choice, but I
think they might be the best for granite to ceramic.

www.sauereisen.com/

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Dan

There are lots of adhesives that will work. My recommendation is not
based on the strength of the connection, but because a non organic
adhesive may age better than an organic adhesive. But I do not have
any experience with this. So contact the companies.

Is there anyway to use anchor bolts?

Dan

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:35:29 -0400, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's
a Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new
year begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out
of its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention
"stone" and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open
to suggestions.

Thanks guys,

In the early stages of my new career I experimented a lot with gluing
stones together and to metal. This is what I found:

1) Epoxy worked just fine (West system, JB Weld) until you exposed the
structure to sun. Then the whole thing got heated and the epoxy bond
weakened considerably.

2) The one adhesive I found satisfactory was this one:

http://www.lepageproducts.com/Produc...l.aspx?pid=84#

Not sure if you can get it where you are. They do make an "advanced"
formula now.

The only thing I found to be a bit of a pain about it was the high
viscosity. Spreading it on the surfaces was a bit difficult.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:18:18 -0700, wrote:

In the early stages of my new career I experimented a lot with gluing
stones together and to metal. This is what I found:

1) Epoxy worked just fine (West system, JB Weld) until you exposed the
structure to sun. Then the whole thing got heated and the epoxy bond
weakened considerably.

2) The one adhesive I found satisfactory was this one:

http://www.lepageproducts.com/Produc...l.aspx?pid=84#

Not sure if you can get it where you are. They do make an "advanced"
formula now.

Did you try Goop's E6000? I love the stuff but don't recall if I've
glued metal and exposed it to the sun.


The only thing I found to be a bit of a pain about it was the high
viscosity. Spreading it on the surfaces was a bit difficult.

Most adhesives respond to heat, relaxing their viscosity in warmer
temperatures.

Next time, try soaking a cartridge (protected by a plastic bag) in a
pan of 45C water for half an hour. It should help that aspect quite a
bit.

Caulk responds very nicely to that, and it finishes much better and
smoother when warm.

--
[Television is] the triumph of machine over people.
-- Fred Allen

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
...
SWMBO and I were visiting family graves at a nearby cemetary today (It's a
Jewish tradition to pay such visits the week before the Jewish new year
begins.)

The oval ceramic tile with her grandmother's photo on it had fallen out of
its recess in her granite tombstone and fortunately I found it in the
grass alongside the stone.

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention "stone"
and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the like.

http://www.thistothat.com/

I'm thinking some type of epoxy would probably work best, but I'm open to
suggestions.

Thanks guys,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

I would be wary of organic-based adhesives. It is hard to predict how they
might hold up in a 100 years with sun and weather exposure.

Since essentially you are bonding a ceramic tile onto the stone, I would
look into something like thinset cement that is used for laying tile. You
could ask on tile-laying forums how well this holds up in outdoor conditions
and if there are any issues bonding to granite.

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:46:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

[...]

Did you try Goop's E6000? I love the stuff but don't recall if I've
glued metal and exposed it to the sun.

Yes, but not on stones. I found it under performed in other apps
compared with other glues. For instance for gluing brass to steel it
was consistently inferior to Houshold Goop (the only one that works
well in that app for me).

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On 9/27/2011 11:31 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:46:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

[...]

Did you try Goop's E6000? I love the stuff but don't recall if I've
glued metal and exposed it to the sun.

Yes, but not on stones. I found it under performed in other apps
compared with other glues. For instance for gluing brass to steel it
was consistently inferior to Houshold Goop (the only one that works
well in that app for me).

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC


Same results here. Goop is da stuff!

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 21:31:41 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:46:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

[...]

Did you try Goop's E6000? I love the stuff but don't recall if I've
glued metal and exposed it to the sun.

Yes, but not on stones. I found it under performed in other apps
compared with other glues. For instance for gluing brass to steel it
was consistently inferior to Houshold Goop (the only one that works
well in that app for me).

Interesting! I'm a Goop believer and have a drawer full of each of
their types. E6000 is a bit less viscous and easier to work with than
the others, and I've never had a failure with it. I'll note your info.
Brass and steel expand at way different rates, so I'm surprised
anything short of solder/brazing works there at all. Do you have to
use a thick layer of adhesive to allow that large movement? Does the
adhesive decouple them, and limit some of the differential?

Most of my use is on broken paperback book spines, shoes, plastic, and
leather. Shoe Goop works so well it outlasted the sole.

--
Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air…
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

jeff_wisnia wrote:

The back surface of the oval ceramic tile is unglazed and the surface it
will be attached to is smooth granite.

The "This to That" website isn't very helpfull, they don't mention
"stone" and their references to ceramic refer to broken dishes and the like.

Epoxy, RTV adhesive, and polyurethane adhesives come to mind.

Wes

On Sep 24, 7:35*pm, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".


could have been grout.

Before WWI, melted Sulphur was used to attach Iron and Bronze
to stone, it expands as it cools, and seems last a _long_ time,
given examples are still attached.

But as others point out, Goop is the stuff for today, and my goto
choice.

**
mike
**

In article
,
mike wrote:

On Sep 24, 7:35*pm, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

Whatever had been holding it in place for about 60 years finally gave up
and let go. The remains of it in the recess are frangible and feel like
some sort of "plaster".

Burn some and smell the smoke. If it's sulfur, you will know.


could have been grout.

Before WWI, melted Sulphur was used to attach Iron and Bronze
to stone, it expands as it cools, and seems last a _long_ time,
given examples are still attached.

But as others point out, Goop is the stuff for today, and my goto
choice.

Melted Sulfur. I think it's still used. In 1974 I lived a year in
Sweden. The Swedes build for the Ages - I think they plan to stay.

At a summer house near Stockholm, there was a galvanized iron ring
attached firmly to a large granite boulder, used to tie small boats up.

The construction details were simple. The ring was loose, being
interlinked with the eye of a forged eyebolt. The other end of the
eyebolt was split, and the entire assembly was galvanized.

A deep hole was drilled into the granite bolder, a foot above the
high-water mark. An iron wedge was pushed into the split end, and the
eyebolt was inserted into the drilled hole, and hammered home with a
sledge, so the wedge forced the split end to expand until it clinched
against the sides of the drilled hole. This mechanically fixed the
eyebolt into the rock. (I don't know if they made the hole wider near
the bottom, but I wouldn't put it past the Swedes, if they thought it
useful.) Then the eyebolt was slowly heated with a torch, thus also
heating the nearby rock, until all was very hot, and then molten sulfur
was poured in until no more would go in. A day later, it had all cooled.

The sulfur wetted both rock and iron, and formed a robust waterproof
seal. I was told that this is the traditional method for attaching iron
hardware to stone.

With a piece this size (I recall that the eyebolt rod was about 0.5" in
diameter), thermal mismatch won't make much difference, but for larger
pieces it will matter a lot, and no rigid adhesive will work for long
outdoors, between thermal cycling (and freeze-thaw in cold wet areas).

Joe Gwinn

On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 06:19:24 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 21:31:41 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:46:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

[...]

Did you try Goop's E6000? I love the stuff but don't recall if I've
glued metal and exposed it to the sun.

Yes, but not on stones. I found it under performed in other apps
compared with other glues. For instance for gluing brass to steel it
was consistently inferior to Houshold Goop (the only one that works
well in that app for me).

Interesting! I'm a Goop believer and have a drawer full of each of
their types. E6000 is a bit less viscous and easier to work with than
the others, and I've never had a failure with it. I'll note your info.
Brass and steel expand at way different rates, so I'm surprised
anything short of solder/brazing works there at all. Do you have to
use a thick layer of adhesive to allow that large movement? Does the
adhesive decouple them, and limit some of the differential?

Most of my use is on broken paperback book spines, shoes, plastic, and
leather. Shoe Goop works so well it outlasted the sole.

Agree that E6000 is much more pleasant to work with due to its low
viscosity. I was disappointed that it did not perform as well as the
Goop.

I asked the manufacturer if it is possible to thin the Goop but they
were not encouraging. I am guessing toluene would be the stuff to use
but I have not tried it.

By the nature of the application I am trying for as thin a layer of
Goop as I can possibly achieve which is not easy.

With all the other glues (epoxies - 4 of them, polyurethane, E6000, CA
etc.) I got initially good adhesion (I do 0.020" brass to appx 3/16"
steel) but if a corner separated the whole piece would literally pop
off. I turn the pieces to clean up the edges and sometimes the brass
would pop off on the lathe. Not so with the Goop. Even if I can get a
corner to peel off a bit I have to yank at it quite hard if I want the
brass to peel off the steel.

I have not met anyone who can explain this, vendors, manufacturers,
other enthusiasts.

I would love to know what is the chemistry of Goop and how it differs
from. e.g. E6000.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:34:28 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 06:19:24 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 21:31:41 -0700, wrote:

Agree that E6000 is much more pleasant to work with due to its low
viscosity. I was disappointed that it did not perform as well as the
Goop.

I asked the manufacturer if it is possible to thin the Goop but they
were not encouraging. I am guessing toluene would be the stuff to use
but I have not tried it.

I'd guess the same. Maybe put an ounce of toluene in a jar, drizzle
some anyGoop over it, and close it up overnight. See what damage it
did the next morning, and if the solvent did thin it, see if it still
works as an adhesive. Let's have another one of your wonderfully
documented tests, like the Rust Chronicles.


By the nature of the application I am trying for as thin a layer of
Goop as I can possibly achieve which is not easy.

Back in the day, when I was wrenching for a living, I used Gorilla
Snot (our fave name for 3M Super Weatherstrip Adhesive.) It worked on
everything in temps icy or steamy.


With all the other glues (epoxies - 4 of them, polyurethane, E6000, CA
etc.) I got initially good adhesion (I do 0.020" brass to appx 3/16"
steel) but if a corner separated the whole piece would literally pop
off. I turn the pieces to clean up the edges and sometimes the brass
would pop off on the lathe. Not so with the Goop. Even if I can get a
corner to peel off a bit I have to yank at it quite hard if I want the
brass to peel off the steel.

I haven't had good luck with brass, either. One of my wooden planes
had a brass sole epoxied to it. After a year in my shop, which is air
conditioned and heated, it fell off. That could have been the bubinga,
an oily wood, but I think it was the expansion differential between
the metal and wood.


I have not met anyone who can explain this, vendors, manufacturers,
other enthusiasts.

Do you leave a coarse finish on the mating parts so you get a good
tooth for the adhesive to grab onto?


I would love to know what is the chemistry of Goop and how it differs
from. e.g. E6000.

I'm sure Eclectic would be happy not to tell you.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

On Sep 30, 10:57*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:


I haven't had good luck with brass, either. One of my wooden planes
had a brass sole epoxied to it. After a year in my shop, which is air
conditioned and heated, it fell off. That could have been the bubinga,
an oily wood, but I think it was the expansion differential between
the metal and wood.

I have not met anyone who can explain this, vendors, manufacturers,
other enthusiasts.

Try searching on adhesives for Copper. I vaguely remember something
like copper inhibits the usual catalysts used with epoxy. Anyway you
can buy epoxy for use with copper pipes and fittings at the Home Depot
or Lowes.

Dan

On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 14:39:44 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sep 30, 10:57*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:


I haven't had good luck with brass, either. One of my wooden planes
had a brass sole epoxied to it. After a year in my shop, which is air
conditioned and heated, it fell off. That could have been the bubinga,
an oily wood, but I think it was the expansion differential between
the metal and wood.

I have not met anyone who can explain this, vendors, manufacturers,
other enthusiasts.

Try searching on adhesives for Copper. I vaguely remember something
like copper inhibits the usual catalysts used with epoxy. Anyway you
can buy epoxy for use with copper pipes and fittings at the Home Depot
or Lowes.



I did. The reviews by people who actually used it were less than
enthusiastic. I stayed away from it.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Larry Jaques sed

One of my wooden planes
had a brass sole epoxied to it. After a year in my shop, which is air
conditioned and heated, it fell off. That could have been the
bubinga,
an oily wood, but I think it was the expansion differential between
the metal and wood.



Larry, it's because it wasn't built right. Sole plates (whether on
jointers, smoothes, or end planes [or wooden golf clubs, for that
mattter]) are held on with screws, with the heads countersunk flush and
ground off perfectly smooth.

(Relatively) thick metal and wood don't get along well without mechanical
fasteners. Wood "breathes". Metal wheezes.

LLoyd

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 19:57:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:34:28 -0700, wrote:

[...]

I asked the manufacturer if it is possible to thin the Goop but they
were not encouraging. I am guessing toluene would be the stuff to use
but I have not tried it.

I'd guess the same. Maybe put an ounce of toluene in a jar, drizzle
some anyGoop over it, and close it up overnight. See what damage it
did the next morning, and if the solvent did thin it, see if it still
works as an adhesive. Let's have another one of your wonderfully
documented tests, like the Rust Chronicles.

There is only so many hours in the day :-)


[...]

I haven't had good luck with brass, either. One of my wooden planes
had a brass sole epoxied to it. After a year in my shop, which is air
conditioned and heated, it fell off. That could have been the bubinga,
an oily wood, but I think it was the expansion differential between
the metal and wood.

This is the explanation which is often advanced for the failure of
adhesives. I have not done the math to see how much movement there is
between the parts per degree of temp. I would have thought you would
have to have a fairly large part and fairly large temperature
difference for it to be a factor. But like I said I have not done the
work to support it.


I have not met anyone who can explain this, vendors, manufacturers,
other enthusiasts.

Do you leave a coarse finish on the mating parts so you get a good
tooth for the adhesive to grab onto?

I tried several finishes without much difference. On principle I tend
to make the surfaces coarse.


I would love to know what is the chemistry of Goop and how it differs
from. e.g. E6000.

I'm sure Eclectic would be happy not to tell you.

Who dat?

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 19:15:42 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques sed

One of my wooden planes
had a brass sole epoxied to it. After a year in my shop, which is air
conditioned and heated, it fell off. That could have been the
bubinga,
an oily wood, but I think it was the expansion differential between
the metal and wood.



Larry, it's because it wasn't built right. Sole plates (whether on
jointers, smoothes, or end planes [or wooden golf clubs, for that
mattter]) are held on with screws, with the heads countersunk flush and
ground off perfectly smooth.

Pass that along to Steve Knight, builder of said plane. He
started laminating harder sole wood instead of brass from then on.


(Relatively) thick metal and wood don't get along well without mechanical
fasteners. Wood "breathes". Metal wheezes.

g

--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra

On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 17:17:59 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 19:57:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:34:28 -0700, wrote:

[...]

I asked the manufacturer if it is possible to thin the Goop but they
were not encouraging. I am guessing toluene would be the stuff to use
but I have not tried it.

I'd guess the same. Maybe put an ounce of toluene in a jar, drizzle
some anyGoop over it, and close it up overnight. See what damage it
did the next morning, and if the solvent did thin it, see if it still
works as an adhesive. Let's have another one of your wonderfully
documented tests, like the Rust Chronicles.

There is only so many hours in the day :-)

There "is", Doc? /shameful


I would love to know what is the chemistry of Goop and how it differs
from. e.g. E6000.

I'm sure Eclectic would be happy not to tell you.

Who dat?

The makers of all Goops.
http://www.eclecticproducts.com/

--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra