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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
If you recall, I had a Detroit Diesel 3-53 in my trailer.
After I cleaned up my yard a little bit, I dragged it out, so it sits on a cart (properly tied down). I tried starting it again. Just as in winter, it started VERY strong and fast. It also would not respond much to the controls. To stop it, I covered the air intake with a wooden board. The first time, it stopped. Then I opened the valve cover to see if controls move anything under the valve cover. One kind of did move something. Then I started it again a second time. (with the valve cover off a mistake). The second time, believe it or not, it did NOT stop. It kept going, slowly, but it just would NOT stop. I pulled the fuel line, and finally, after a minute, it did stop. My question is WTF? How exactly can it run, with the air intake closed? The board seems soft and smooth, and it is not likely (but I am open to anything) that it let any air into the engine. Since it was outside the trailer, unlike in winter, I was not in danger of ruining my underwear, but it was freaky and unsettling to have an unstoppable diesel engine. i |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
"Ignoramus31413" wrote in message
... If you recall, I had a Detroit Diesel 3-53 in my trailer. After I cleaned up my yard a little bit, I dragged it out, so it sits on a cart (properly tied down). I tried starting it again. Just as in winter, it started VERY strong and fast. It also would not respond much to the controls. To stop it, I covered the air intake with a wooden board. The first time, it stopped. Then I opened the valve cover to see if controls move anything under the valve cover. One kind of did move something. Then I started it again a second time. (with the valve cover off a mistake). The second time, believe it or not, it did NOT stop. It kept going, slowly, but it just would NOT stop. I pulled the fuel line, and finally, after a minute, it did stop. My question is WTF? How exactly can it run, with the air intake closed? The board seems soft and smooth, and it is not likely (but I am open to anything) that it let any air into the engine. Since it was outside the trailer, unlike in winter, I was not in danger of ruining my underwear, but it was freaky and unsettling to have an unstoppable diesel engine. i I would guess that with the valve cover off, the engine is breathing through the "breather" hose on the valve cover? Normally the breather would be applying vacuum to the valve area & crankcase and only "breathing" the limited amount of blowby from past the rings... but with the valve cover off it's "breathing" fresh air? |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
David Courtney wrote: "Ignoramus31413" wrote in message ... If you recall, I had a Detroit Diesel 3-53 in my trailer. After I cleaned up my yard a little bit, I dragged it out, so it sits on a cart (properly tied down). I tried starting it again. Just as in winter, it started VERY strong and fast. It also would not respond much to the controls. To stop it, I covered the air intake with a wooden board. The first time, it stopped. Then I opened the valve cover to see if controls move anything under the valve cover. One kind of did move something. Then I started it again a second time. (with the valve cover off a mistake). The second time, believe it or not, it did NOT stop. It kept going, slowly, but it just would NOT stop. I pulled the fuel line, and finally, after a minute, it did stop. My question is WTF? How exactly can it run, with the air intake closed? The board seems soft and smooth, and it is not likely (but I am open to anything) that it let any air into the engine. Since it was outside the trailer, unlike in winter, I was not in danger of ruining my underwear, but it was freaky and unsettling to have an unstoppable diesel engine. i I would guess that with the valve cover off, the engine is breathing through the "breather" hose on the valve cover? Normally the breather would be applying vacuum to the valve area & crankcase and only "breathing" the limited amount of blowby from past the rings... but with the valve cover off it's "breathing" fresh air? That sounds plausible. Also wondering why he isn't using a fuel shutoff to shutdown like every diesel I've operated uses. |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On 2011-06-21, Pete C. wrote:
David Courtney wrote: "Ignoramus31413" wrote in message ... If you recall, I had a Detroit Diesel 3-53 in my trailer. After I cleaned up my yard a little bit, I dragged it out, so it sits on a cart (properly tied down). I tried starting it again. Just as in winter, it started VERY strong and fast. It also would not respond much to the controls. To stop it, I covered the air intake with a wooden board. The first time, it stopped. Then I opened the valve cover to see if controls move anything under the valve cover. One kind of did move something. Then I started it again a second time. (with the valve cover off a mistake). The second time, believe it or not, it did NOT stop. It kept going, slowly, but it just would NOT stop. I pulled the fuel line, and finally, after a minute, it did stop. My question is WTF? How exactly can it run, with the air intake closed? The board seems soft and smooth, and it is not likely (but I am open to anything) that it let any air into the engine. Since it was outside the trailer, unlike in winter, I was not in danger of ruining my underwear, but it was freaky and unsettling to have an unstoppable diesel engine. i I would guess that with the valve cover off, the engine is breathing through the "breather" hose on the valve cover? Normally the breather would be applying vacuum to the valve area & crankcase and only "breathing" the limited amount of blowby from past the rings... but with the valve cover off it's "breathing" fresh air? That sounds plausible. Also wondering why he isn't using a fuel shutoff to shutdown like every diesel I've operated uses. Great idea. Thanks. I have added a fuel shutoff just 5 minutes ago. It helps in getting the situation under control. |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:04:26 -0500, Ignoramus31413
wrote: On 2011-06-21, Pete C. wrote: David Courtney wrote: "Ignoramus31413" wrote in message ... If you recall, I had a Detroit Diesel 3-53 in my trailer. After I cleaned up my yard a little bit, I dragged it out, so it sits on a cart (properly tied down). I tried starting it again. Just as in winter, it started VERY strong and fast. It also would not respond much to the controls. To stop it, I covered the air intake with a wooden board. The first time, it stopped. Then I opened the valve cover to see if controls move anything under the valve cover. One kind of did move something. Then I started it again a second time. (with the valve cover off a mistake). The second time, believe it or not, it did NOT stop. It kept going, slowly, but it just would NOT stop. I pulled the fuel line, and finally, after a minute, it did stop. My question is WTF? How exactly can it run, with the air intake closed? The board seems soft and smooth, and it is not likely (but I am open to anything) that it let any air into the engine. Since it was outside the trailer, unlike in winter, I was not in danger of ruining my underwear, but it was freaky and unsettling to have an unstoppable diesel engine. i I would guess that with the valve cover off, the engine is breathing through the "breather" hose on the valve cover? Normally the breather would be applying vacuum to the valve area & crankcase and only "breathing" the limited amount of blowby from past the rings... but with the valve cover off it's "breathing" fresh air? That sounds plausible. Also wondering why he isn't using a fuel shutoff to shutdown like every diesel I've operated uses. Great idea. Thanks. I have added a fuel shutoff just 5 minutes ago. It helps in getting the situation under control. Didn't the engine have a spring loaded "damper" in the intake when you got it? |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On 2011-06-22, john B wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:04:26 -0500, Ignoramus31413 wrote: On 2011-06-21, Pete C. wrote: David Courtney wrote: "Ignoramus31413" wrote in message ... If you recall, I had a Detroit Diesel 3-53 in my trailer. After I cleaned up my yard a little bit, I dragged it out, so it sits on a cart (properly tied down). I tried starting it again. Just as in winter, it started VERY strong and fast. It also would not respond much to the controls. To stop it, I covered the air intake with a wooden board. The first time, it stopped. Then I opened the valve cover to see if controls move anything under the valve cover. One kind of did move something. Then I started it again a second time. (with the valve cover off a mistake). The second time, believe it or not, it did NOT stop. It kept going, slowly, but it just would NOT stop. I pulled the fuel line, and finally, after a minute, it did stop. My question is WTF? How exactly can it run, with the air intake closed? The board seems soft and smooth, and it is not likely (but I am open to anything) that it let any air into the engine. Since it was outside the trailer, unlike in winter, I was not in danger of ruining my underwear, but it was freaky and unsettling to have an unstoppable diesel engine. i I would guess that with the valve cover off, the engine is breathing through the "breather" hose on the valve cover? Normally the breather would be applying vacuum to the valve area & crankcase and only "breathing" the limited amount of blowby from past the rings... but with the valve cover off it's "breathing" fresh air? That sounds plausible. Also wondering why he isn't using a fuel shutoff to shutdown like every diesel I've operated uses. Great idea. Thanks. I have added a fuel shutoff just 5 minutes ago. It helps in getting the situation under control. Didn't the engine have a spring loaded "damper" in the intake when you got it? yes, it does. |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:37:20 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote: David Courtney wrote: "Ignoramus31413" wrote in message ... If you recall, I had a Detroit Diesel 3-53 in my trailer. After I cleaned up my yard a little bit, I dragged it out, so it sits on a cart (properly tied down). I tried starting it again. Just as in winter, it started VERY strong and fast. It also would not respond much to the controls. To stop it, I covered the air intake with a wooden board. The first time, it stopped. Then I opened the valve cover to see if controls move anything under the valve cover. One kind of did move something. Then I started it again a second time. (with the valve cover off a mistake). The second time, believe it or not, it did NOT stop. It kept going, slowly, but it just would NOT stop. I pulled the fuel line, and finally, after a minute, it did stop. My question is WTF? How exactly can it run, with the air intake closed? The board seems soft and smooth, and it is not likely (but I am open to anything) that it let any air into the engine. Since it was outside the trailer, unlike in winter, I was not in danger of ruining my underwear, but it was freaky and unsettling to have an unstoppable diesel engine. i I would guess that with the valve cover off, the engine is breathing through the "breather" hose on the valve cover? Normally the breather would be applying vacuum to the valve area & crankcase and only "breathing" the limited amount of blowby from past the rings... but with the valve cover off it's "breathing" fresh air? That sounds plausible. Also wondering why he isn't using a fuel shutoff to shutdown like every diesel I've operated uses. The GMC engines are two stroke and use a roots blower to provide scavenging pressure. As the blowers are lubricated by engine oil pressure if a shaft seal fails it injects lube under normal operating pressure into the incoming air stream. If you shut off the fuel under this condition the engine won't stop; if you shut off the air it will. |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On 06/21/2011 12:37 PM, Pete C. wrote:
I would guess that with the valve cover off, the engine is breathing through the "breather" hose on the valve cover? Normally the breather would be applying vacuum to the valve area& crankcase and only "breathing" the limited amount of blowby from past the rings... but with the valve cover off it's "breathing" fresh air? That sounds plausible. Also wondering why he isn't using a fuel shutoff to shutdown like every diesel I've operated uses. Many Detroit Diesels from that period had an emergency shutdown that moved little arms into the path of the valve spring retainers, jamming one valve per cylinder partly open , and in so doing, killing the compression. That may be what Iggy was referring to as something moving in the valve cover area. Taking off the valve cover on those engines definitely would defeat that mechanism. Jon |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 17:17:29 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote: On 06/21/2011 12:37 PM, Pete C. wrote: I would guess that with the valve cover off, the engine is breathing through the "breather" hose on the valve cover? Normally the breather would be applying vacuum to the valve area& crankcase and only "breathing" the limited amount of blowby from past the rings... but with the valve cover off it's "breathing" fresh air? That sounds plausible. Also wondering why he isn't using a fuel shutoff to shutdown like every diesel I've operated uses. Many Detroit Diesels from that period had an emergency shutdown that moved little arms into the path of the valve spring retainers, jamming one valve per cylinder partly open , and in so doing, killing the compression. That may be what Iggy was referring to as something moving in the valve cover area. Taking off the valve cover on those engines definitely would defeat that mechanism. Jon I believe that the spring loaded rack system was made as a substitute for the inlet damper which DD recommended be disconnected. However engines used in the oil industry are still required to have inlet air damper type shutdowns. Cheers, John B. |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On 2011-06-30, john B wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 17:17:29 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: On 06/21/2011 12:37 PM, Pete C. wrote: I would guess that with the valve cover off, the engine is breathing through the "breather" hose on the valve cover? Normally the breather would be applying vacuum to the valve area& crankcase and only "breathing" the limited amount of blowby from past the rings... but with the valve cover off it's "breathing" fresh air? That sounds plausible. Also wondering why he isn't using a fuel shutoff to shutdown like every diesel I've operated uses. Many Detroit Diesels from that period had an emergency shutdown that moved little arms into the path of the valve spring retainers, jamming one valve per cylinder partly open , and in so doing, killing the compression. That may be what Iggy was referring to as something moving in the valve cover area. Taking off the valve cover on those engines definitely would defeat that mechanism. Jon I believe that the spring loaded rack system was made as a substitute for the inlet damper which DD recommended be disconnected. However engines used in the oil industry are still required to have inlet air damper type shutdowns. Cheers, I have both the rack and air damper. The cause of my trouble was that one injector was stuck and the rack could not pull the arms out of the injectors. i |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On 06/21/2011 09:20 AM, Ignoramus31413 wrote:
If you recall, I had a Detroit Diesel 3-53 in my trailer. After I cleaned up my yard a little bit, I dragged it out, so it sits on a cart (properly tied down). I tried starting it again. Just as in winter, it started VERY strong and fast. It also would not respond much to the controls. To stop it, I covered the air intake with a wooden board. The first time, it stopped. Then I opened the valve cover to see if controls move anything under the valve cover. One kind of did move something. Then I started it again a second time. (with the valve cover off a mistake). The second time, believe it or not, it did NOT stop. It kept going, slowly, but it just would NOT stop. I pulled the fuel line, and finally, after a minute, it did stop. My question is WTF? How exactly can it run, with the air intake closed? The board seems soft and smooth, and it is not likely (but I am open to anything) that it let any air into the engine. Since it was outside the trailer, unlike in winter, I was not in danger of ruining my underwear, but it was freaky and unsettling to have an unstoppable diesel engine. Either you have a leak in your intake manifold, or leaky intake valves, or it's sucking air past the rings from the crank case. Or I have my head up my ass -- I'm no diesel mechanic, nor a truck driver. I thought diesel engines were supposed to cut off fuel to stop, and only cut off the air as an emergency stopping measure? I was told, a long time ago by someone who wasn't a diesel mechanic (but did drive them quite a bit, and pay for them when they broke) that a diesel can 'run away' by sucking both air and crankcase oil past the rings, and be unstoppable until it has seriously depleted the lubricating oil. I: 1: don't know how often that happened. 2: don't know if it's true at all (but it was my dad, who didn't usually exaggerate, and who was in a position to know) 3: don't know if it's common now, as opposed to the mid 1970's when I heard it. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
Tim Wescott wrote:
I was told, a long time ago by someone who wasn't a diesel mechanic (but did drive them quite a bit, and pay for them when they broke) that a diesel can 'run away' by sucking both air and crankcase oil past the rings, and be unstoppable until it has seriously depleted the lubricating oil. I owned a Volkswagan Rabbit diesel for a little while. The rings were worn and after a few weeks about an inch of crankcase oil would build up in the air box. Hitting a bump or going around a tight curve would slosh the oil into the intakes and give you a very exciting 5 seconds of about 150% full throttle. Especially if you were in that tight turn at the time. I learned to pop the airbox open and mop out the oil about once a month. I: 1: don't know how often that happened. 2: don't know if it's true at all (but it was my dad, who didn't usually exaggerate, and who was in a position to know) 3: don't know if it's common now, as opposed to the mid 1970's when I heard it. |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On 2011-06-21, Tim Wescott wrote:
On 06/21/2011 09:20 AM, Ignoramus31413 wrote: If you recall, I had a Detroit Diesel 3-53 in my trailer. After I cleaned up my yard a little bit, I dragged it out, so it sits on a cart (properly tied down). I tried starting it again. Just as in winter, it started VERY strong and fast. It also would not respond much to the controls. To stop it, I covered the air intake with a wooden board. The first time, it stopped. Then I opened the valve cover to see if controls move anything under the valve cover. One kind of did move something. Then I started it again a second time. (with the valve cover off a mistake). The second time, believe it or not, it did NOT stop. It kept going, slowly, but it just would NOT stop. I pulled the fuel line, and finally, after a minute, it did stop. My question is WTF? How exactly can it run, with the air intake closed? The board seems soft and smooth, and it is not likely (but I am open to anything) that it let any air into the engine. Since it was outside the trailer, unlike in winter, I was not in danger of ruining my underwear, but it was freaky and unsettling to have an unstoppable diesel engine. Either you have a leak in your intake manifold, or leaky intake valves, or it's sucking air past the rings from the crank case. Or I have my head up my ass -- I'm no diesel mechanic, nor a truck driver. Maybe I have my head up my ass too. I thought diesel engines were supposed to cut off fuel to stop, and only cut off the air as an emergency stopping measure? I have added a fuel cutoff valve. I was told, a long time ago by someone who wasn't a diesel mechanic (but did drive them quite a bit, and pay for them when they broke) that a diesel can 'run away' by sucking both air and crankcase oil past the rings, and be unstoppable until it has seriously depleted the lubricating oil. I thought that it was all about just sucking oil, not air. That is a very scary possibility. i I: 1: don't know how often that happened. 2: don't know if it's true at all (but it was my dad, who didn't usually exaggerate, and who was in a position to know) 3: don't know if it's common now, as opposed to the mid 1970's when I heard it. |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
Ignoramus31413 wrote:
On 2011-06-21, Tim Wescott wrote: On 06/21/2011 09:20 AM, Ignoramus31413 wrote: If you recall, I had a Detroit Diesel 3-53 in my trailer. After I cleaned up my yard a little bit, I dragged it out, so it sits on a cart (properly tied down). I tried starting it again. Just as in winter, it started VERY strong and fast. It also would not respond much to the controls. To stop it, I covered the air intake with a wooden board. The first time, it stopped. Then I opened the valve cover to see if controls move anything under the valve cover. One kind of did move something. Then I started it again a second time. (with the valve cover off a mistake). The second time, believe it or not, it did NOT stop. It kept going, slowly, but it just would NOT stop. I pulled the fuel line, and finally, after a minute, it did stop. My question is WTF? How exactly can it run, with the air intake closed? The board seems soft and smooth, and it is not likely (but I am open to anything) that it let any air into the engine. Since it was outside the trailer, unlike in winter, I was not in danger of ruining my underwear, but it was freaky and unsettling to have an unstoppable diesel engine. Either you have a leak in your intake manifold, or leaky intake valves, or it's sucking air past the rings from the crank case. Or I have my head up my ass -- I'm no diesel mechanic, nor a truck driver. Maybe I have my head up my ass too. I thought diesel engines were supposed to cut off fuel to stop, and only cut off the air as an emergency stopping measure? I have added a fuel cutoff valve. I was told, a long time ago by someone who wasn't a diesel mechanic (but did drive them quite a bit, and pay for them when they broke) that a diesel can 'run away' by sucking both air and crankcase oil past the rings, and be unstoppable until it has seriously depleted the lubricating oil. I thought that it was all about just sucking oil, not air. That is a very scary possibility. A chap I used to know, now dead, told me lots of interesting stories from when he worked in construction and some of those included large earth moving machinery where the diesel engines ran away. In one case the operator realised what was happening and drove the machine into the tunnel wall to stall it before any serious problems occurred. Those big machines in question had oil bath air filters IIRC and in some cases the engine would start to run on the oil in those. The chap had an interesting life, he said on another occasion he was almost killed by shrapnel from a generator donkey engine exploding when someone used compressed oxygen to start the genset rather than compressed air, that was when he was working on the Aswan dam. i I: 1: don't know how often that happened. 2: don't know if it's true at all (but it was my dad, who didn't usually exaggerate, and who was in a position to know) 3: don't know if it's common now, as opposed to the mid 1970's when I heard it. |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:37:40 +0100, David Billington
wrote: I thought that it was all about just sucking oil, not air. That is a very scary possibility. A chap I used to know, now dead, told me lots of interesting stories from when he worked in construction and some of those included large earth moving machinery where the diesel engines ran away. In one case the operator realised what was happening and drove the machine into the tunnel wall to stall it before any serious problems occurred. Those big machines in question had oil bath air filters IIRC and in some cases the engine would start to run on the oil in those. The chap had an interesting life, he said on another occasion he was almost killed by shrapnel from a generator donkey engine exploding when someone used compressed oxygen to start the genset rather than compressed air, that was when he was working on the Aswan dam. I had a 398 Cat run away when a guy left a propane line too close to the intake and it wore a nice big hole in the hose....that big ol kitty cat was purring..and it started roaring in a very very short amount of time. That 398 ran all the running gear on an oil rig I was working derrick on. -- Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head. |
#16
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 02:27:37 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:37:40 +0100, David Billington wrote: I thought that it was all about just sucking oil, not air. That is a very scary possibility. A chap I used to know, now dead, told me lots of interesting stories from when he worked in construction and some of those included large earth moving machinery where the diesel engines ran away. In one case the operator realised what was happening and drove the machine into the tunnel wall to stall it before any serious problems occurred. Those big machines in question had oil bath air filters IIRC and in some cases the engine would start to run on the oil in those. The chap had an interesting life, he said on another occasion he was almost killed by shrapnel from a generator donkey engine exploding when someone used compressed oxygen to start the genset rather than compressed air, that was when he was working on the Aswan dam. I had a 398 Cat run away when a guy left a propane line too close to the intake and it wore a nice big hole in the hose....that big ol kitty cat was purring..and it started roaring in a very very short amount of time. That 398 ran all the running gear on an oil rig I was working derrick on. A drilling rig? No compound? |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
Here's a little update. This is sort of a "reply to all", I am reading
everything that you guys post, and this is my update. I have learned to run this diesel a little more safely, so that I do not freak out. First, I added a ball valve on fuel intake, so I can easily shut off or restrict fuel at any moment. Second, I start the engine with intake mostly blocked by that infamous board. This way, the engine does not run frighteningly fast. It runs relatively slowly, is starved for air, smokes a lot, and I can shut it off by simply shutting off my ball valve on the fuel filter. While it runs slowly, I can afford to experiment a little bit. Neither of the two controls does anything that I can perceive. My feeling is that I need to read up the manual on how the governor functions in this engine. Lastly, even when the engine ran too fast and too loud, the output pulleys seemed to rotate at a fairly reasonable speed. So perhaps I am just a little bit too girly and too sensitive to the noise of a two stroke diesel. But I do not want to take chances on this. i |
#18
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
Ignoramus31413 wrote:
Here's a little update. This is sort of a "reply to all", I am reading everything that you guys post, and this is my update. I have learned to run this diesel a little more safely, so that I do not freak out. First, I added a ball valve on fuel intake, so I can easily shut off or restrict fuel at any moment. Second, I start the engine with intake mostly blocked by that infamous board. NOT a good idea. That WILL damage the engine, you control the engine speed using the fuel throttle NOT air. This way, the engine does not run frighteningly fast. It runs relatively slowly, is starved for air, smokes a lot, and I can shut it off by simply shutting off my ball valve on the fuel filter. While it runs slowly, I can afford to experiment a little bit. Neither of the two controls does anything that I can perceive. My feeling is that I need to read up the manual on how the governor functions in this engine. Gee ya think!!! Lastly, even when the engine ran too fast and too loud, the output pulleys seemed to rotate at a fairly reasonable speed. So perhaps I am just a little bit too girly and too sensitive to the noise of a two stroke diesel. But I do not want to take chances on this. Detroits run normally at 1900-2100 rpm. Much over 2400 and they start to destroy themselves. They are THE NOISIEST diesel out there. They also can be set up to make more power than any other engine of the same size due to being a two stroke. i -- Steve W. |
#19
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
Ignoramus31413 wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:01:38 -0500: First, I added a ball valve on fuel intake, so I can easily shut off or restrict fuel at any moment. That's good. But figure out how it's supposed to be shut off. Cutting off the fuel before the injector pump starves the injector pump of its only source of lubricant. At slow speeds you can get away with it, but if you had it at high RPMs and did it too often, you might kill the injector pump. More of an issue with a truck or something if you were to run the tank dry and coast down a hill. You should be able to hold the throttle (linkage to the injector pump?) closed, to stop the engine. -- Dan H. northshore MA. |
#20
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On 2011-06-22, dan wrote:
Ignoramus31413 wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:01:38 -0500: First, I added a ball valve on fuel intake, so I can easily shut off or restrict fuel at any moment. That's good. But figure out how it's supposed to be shut off. Cutting off the fuel before the injector pump starves the injector pump of its only source of lubricant. At slow speeds you can get away with it, but if you had it at high RPMs and did it too often, you might kill the injector pump. More of an issue with a truck or something if you were to run the tank dry and coast down a hill. You should be able to hold the throttle (linkage to the injector pump?) closed, to stop the engine. The issue is that one injector was stuck. I will probably just get a new one if I cannot take care of this one easily. i |
#21
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On 06/21/2011 01:01 PM, Ignoramus31413 wrote:
Lastly, even when the engine ran too fast and too loud, the output pulleys seemed to rotate at a fairly reasonable speed. So perhaps I am just a little bit too girly and too sensitive to the noise of a two stroke diesel. But I do not want to take chances on this. i Oh, yes, if you are not a DD devotee, they sound WAYYY different from conventional 4-stroke Diesels. The Roots blower is an integral part of the engine, and has a distinctive and high sound. The engine is running twice as many power strokes as a 4-stroke, and thus sounds twice as fast. So, full power at near rated RPM sounds to the unexperienced to be an engine well into a runaway when it is just running fine. (Your neighbors are just going to LOVE you.....) Jon |
#22
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On 2011-06-29, Jon Elson wrote:
On 06/21/2011 01:01 PM, Ignoramus31413 wrote: Lastly, even when the engine ran too fast and too loud, the output pulleys seemed to rotate at a fairly reasonable speed. So perhaps I am just a little bit too girly and too sensitive to the noise of a two stroke diesel. But I do not want to take chances on this. i Oh, yes, if you are not a DD devotee, they sound WAYYY different from conventional 4-stroke Diesels. The Roots blower is an integral part of the engine, and has a distinctive and high sound. The engine is running twice as many power strokes as a 4-stroke, and thus sounds twice as fast. So, full power at near rated RPM sounds to the unexperienced to be an engine well into a runaway when it is just running fine. (Your neighbors are just going to LOVE you.....) Jon I am now a DD devotee. It is a very beautiful engine. I always had a love for diesel engines in general. If I had a farm or a lot of room, I would keep the DD and would make it do something. I would pay to have it rebuilt. i |
#23
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
Ignoramus20088 wrote:
On 2011-06-29, Jon Elson wrote: On 06/21/2011 01:01 PM, Ignoramus31413 wrote: Lastly, even when the engine ran too fast and too loud, the output pulleys seemed to rotate at a fairly reasonable speed. So perhaps I am just a little bit too girly and too sensitive to the noise of a two stroke diesel. But I do not want to take chances on this. i Oh, yes, if you are not a DD devotee, they sound WAYYY different from conventional 4-stroke Diesels. The Roots blower is an integral part of the engine, and has a distinctive and high sound. The engine is running twice as many power strokes as a 4-stroke, and thus sounds twice as fast. So, full power at near rated RPM sounds to the unexperienced to be an engine well into a runaway when it is just running fine. (Your neighbors are just going to LOVE you.....) Jon I am now a DD devotee. It is a very beautiful engine. I always had a love for diesel engines in general. If I had a farm or a lot of room, I would keep the DD and would make it do something. I would pay to have it rebuilt. i Is it new enough to be an aluminum block? If so go find a mid 70's GMC P/U and install it. Would make a great hauler. -- Steve W. |
#24
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 02:59:53 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote: Ignoramus20088 wrote: On 2011-06-29, Jon Elson wrote: On 06/21/2011 01:01 PM, Ignoramus31413 wrote: Lastly, even when the engine ran too fast and too loud, the output pulleys seemed to rotate at a fairly reasonable speed. So perhaps I am just a little bit too girly and too sensitive to the noise of a two stroke diesel. But I do not want to take chances on this. i Oh, yes, if you are not a DD devotee, they sound WAYYY different from conventional 4-stroke Diesels. The Roots blower is an integral part of the engine, and has a distinctive and high sound. The engine is running twice as many power strokes as a 4-stroke, and thus sounds twice as fast. So, full power at near rated RPM sounds to the unexperienced to be an engine well into a runaway when it is just running fine. (Your neighbors are just going to LOVE you.....) Jon I am now a DD devotee. It is a very beautiful engine. I always had a love for diesel engines in general. If I had a farm or a lot of room, I would keep the DD and would make it do something. I would pay to have it rebuilt. i Is it new enough to be an aluminum block? If so go find a mid 70's GMC P/U and install it. Would make a great hauler. I've seen them installed in F100 FORD P/U trucks too. Then there was an F350 with a 6-71 in it. |
#25
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
Ignoramus31413 wrote:
If you recall, I had a Detroit Diesel 3-53 in my trailer. After I cleaned up my yard a little bit, I dragged it out, so it sits on a cart (properly tied down). I tried starting it again. Just as in winter, it started VERY strong and fast. It also would not respond much to the controls. To stop it, I covered the air intake with a wooden board. The first time, it stopped. Then I opened the valve cover to see if controls move anything under the valve cover. One kind of did move something. Then I started it again a second time. (with the valve cover off a mistake). Yep BIG mistake. With the VC off the engine now has an intake path for air. Through the crankcase via the oil drains and crankcase vent lines. Detroits are two strokes. They pass the intake air through the crankcase to vent any vapors (this is also why they like oil, they suck out any oil misting in the crankcase) and then it gets run into the engine through the separator. The second time, believe it or not, it did NOT stop. It kept going, slowly, but it just would NOT stop. I pulled the fuel line, and finally, after a minute, it did stop. My question is WTF? How exactly can it run, with the air intake closed? The board seems soft and smooth, and it is not likely (but I am open to anything) that it let any air into the engine. Since it was outside the trailer, unlike in winter, I was not in danger of ruining my underwear, but it was freaky and unsettling to have an unstoppable diesel engine. BTDT with a couple Detroits. The BEST way to shut ANY diesel down is with a fuel shut-off. Shutting off the air intake is the last option. That is because the high vacuum that it creates can damage seals in the scavenging pump and intake. i -- Steve W. |
#26
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STUCK INJECTOR -- was Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after airintake closed? WTF?
I think that I got it, thanks to you and Phil P from SmokStak. The cause of this runaway condition is that a rod that is supposed to regulate the injector, failed on one of the three cylinders. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Detr...tuck-Injector/ See just one picture he http://goo.gl/3d5xV Any idea how to get it "unstuck". thanks i |
#27
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STUCK INJECTOR -- was Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop afterair intake closed? WTF?
Ignoramus31413 wrote:
I think that I got it, thanks to you and Phil P from SmokStak. The cause of this runaway condition is that a rod that is supposed to regulate the injector, failed on one of the three cylinders. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Detr...tuck-Injector/ See just one picture he http://goo.gl/3d5xV Any idea how to get it "unstuck". thanks i http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqQVk3WV2PU -- Steve W. |
#28
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STUCK INJECTOR -- was Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop afterair intake closed? WTF?
On 2011-06-22, Steve W. wrote:
Ignoramus31413 wrote: I think that I got it, thanks to you and Phil P from SmokStak. The cause of this runaway condition is that a rod that is supposed to regulate the injector, failed on one of the three cylinders. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Detr...tuck-Injector/ See just one picture he http://goo.gl/3d5xV Any idea how to get it "unstuck". thanks i http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqQVk3WV2PU I just watched it 10 minutes ago. Sad i |
#29
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
Maybe valve seals are shot?
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#30
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
You commented about how fast the engine seems to run, even tho pulleys, etc,
don't seem to be going so fast. As one guy said, this is a 2 stroke, so it makes twice as many power pulses as what may sound normal to you. We still have some of them around in farm tractors. You can hear them 2 miles away, sounding like they are running 10K rpms. I see that you found a bad part. Good. But just in case, my Case 800 Diesel's fuel pump-distributor/governor are two separate machines within a more or less common box. The governor connects to the distributor with a little link. Once, while out in the woods bringing home firewood, the link came off inside the thing. I totally lost rpm control. I shut off the fuel, but the thing kept going, winding up as it went. Exhaust manifold glowed red. I finally clamped a vise grip on a flexible part of the fuel line to stop it. Scary. It was 8 or 10 years ago. Engine still runs fine with rebuilt distributor system. The moral: make sure the governor is connected where it can do some good. Pete Stanaitis ---------------- |
#31
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On 2011-06-22, Pete S wrote:
You commented about how fast the engine seems to run, even tho pulleys, etc, don't seem to be going so fast. As one guy said, this is a 2 stroke, so it makes twice as many power pulses as what may sound normal to you. We still have some of them around in farm tractors. You can hear them 2 miles away, sounding like they are running 10K rpms. I see that you found a bad part. Good. But just in case, my Case 800 Diesel's fuel pump-distributor/governor are two separate machines within a more or less common box. The governor connects to the distributor with a little link. Once, while out in the woods bringing home firewood, the link came off inside the thing. I totally lost rpm control. I shut off the fuel, but the thing kept going, winding up as it went. Exhaust manifold glowed red. I finally clamped a vise grip on a flexible part of the fuel line to stop it. Scary. It was 8 or 10 years ago. Engine still runs fine with rebuilt distributor system. The moral: make sure the governor is connected where it can do some good. A very scary story. Thanks for sharing. I will work on it, when time and weather permits, which may be a while from now. |
#32
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Detroit Diesel 3-53 would not stop after air intake closed? WTF?
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:20:51 -0500, Ignoramus31413
wrote: If you recall, I had a Detroit Diesel 3-53 in my trailer. After I cleaned up my yard a little bit, I dragged it out, so it sits on a cart (properly tied down). I tried starting it again. Just as in winter, it started VERY strong and fast. It also would not respond much to the controls. To stop it, I covered the air intake with a wooden board. The first time, it stopped. Then I opened the valve cover to see if controls move anything under the valve cover. One kind of did move something. Then I started it again a second time. (with the valve cover off a mistake). The second time, believe it or not, it did NOT stop. It kept going, slowly, but it just would NOT stop. I pulled the fuel line, and finally, after a minute, it did stop. My question is WTF? How exactly can it run, with the air intake closed? The board seems soft and smooth, and it is not likely (but I am open to anything) that it let any air into the engine. Since it was outside the trailer, unlike in winter, I was not in danger of ruining my underwear, but it was freaky and unsettling to have an unstoppable diesel engine. i Bad gasket between the intake and the blower, for example. |
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