Hi Gunner,
I looked at the link that you provided and am totally confused.
Quote:
"Suppose you want to impress a diamond knurl on a 1"-dia. shaft and the distance between each tooth of the knurling tool measured, with calipers, along the roller's axis is 0.060"

How do you measure the distance between each tooth "along the rollers axis"? The teeth are on the rollers circumference aren't they? What am I missing?

Thanks,
Ivan Vegvary

On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 17:35:21 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary
wrote:

Hi Gunner,
I looked at the link that you provided and am totally confused.
Quote:
"Suppose you want to impress a diamond knurl on a 1"-dia. shaft and the distance between each tooth of the knurling tool measured, with calipers, along the roller's axis is 0.060"

How do you measure the distance between each tooth "along the rollers axis"? The teeth are on the rollers circumference aren't they? What am I missing?

Thanks,
Ivan Vegvary

Which link was it? As far as I know..the distance between rollers
really doesnt mean ****e.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
...
Hi Gunner,
I looked at the link that you provided and am totally confused.
Quote:
"Suppose you want to impress a diamond knurl on a 1"-dia. shaft and the
distance between each tooth of the knurling tool measured, with calipers,
along the roller's axis is 0.060"

How do you measure the distance between each tooth "along the rollers
axis"? The teeth are on the rollers circumference aren't they? What am I
missing?

Thanks,
Ivan Vegvary

In spite of anything you may read, any diameter can be successfully knurled,
assuming you're not using a straight knurl. ANY DIAMETER!

Secret to success is all in how you start the knurl. I've written an
article on that subject in the distant past. Pick up on the technique and
you can start a successful knurl virtually 100% of the time.

While it's true that a knurl is, in a sense, a gear of sorts, it is also
true that it can wander side to side, which compensates for pitch anomalies.

Harold

....
In spite of anything you may read, any diameter can be successfully knurled,
assuming you're not using a straight knurl. ANY DIAMETER!

Secret to success is all in how you start the knurl. I've written an
article on that subject in the distant past. Pick up on the technique and
you can start a successful knurl virtually 100% of the time.

While it's true that a knurl is, in a sense, a gear of sorts, it is also
true that it can wander side to side, which compensates for pitch anomalies.

Harold

I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really.

Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what
was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't
provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still
comes out double tracked and I don't know why.

Care to look up or repeat your advice?

Karl

On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 05:56:48 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

...
In spite of anything you may read, any diameter can be successfully knurled,
assuming you're not using a straight knurl. ANY DIAMETER!

Secret to success is all in how you start the knurl. I've written an
article on that subject in the distant past. Pick up on the technique and
you can start a successful knurl virtually 100% of the time.

While it's true that a knurl is, in a sense, a gear of sorts, it is also
true that it can wander side to side, which compensates for pitch anomalies.

Harold

I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really.

Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what
was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't
provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still
comes out double tracked and I don't know why.

Care to look up or repeat your advice?

Karl


Straight or diamond knurl?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 05:19:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 05:56:48 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

...
In spite of anything you may read, any diameter can be successfully knurled,
assuming you're not using a straight knurl. ANY DIAMETER!

Secret to success is all in how you start the knurl. I've written an
article on that subject in the distant past. Pick up on the technique and
you can start a successful knurl virtually 100% of the time.

While it's true that a knurl is, in a sense, a gear of sorts, it is also
true that it can wander side to side, which compensates for pitch anomalies.

Harold

I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really.

Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what
was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't
provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still
comes out double tracked and I don't know why.

Care to look up or repeat your advice?

Karl


Straight or diamond knurl?

Gunner

The straight knurls are way more troublesome. I have managed to fark
up both. One of the threads you reference talked about making it a
multiple of the knurl distance. I've never done this.

On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 17:35:21 -0700, Ivan Vegvary wrote:

I looked at the link that you provided and am totally confused. Quote:
"Suppose you want to impress a diamond knurl on a 1"-dia. shaft and the
distance between each tooth of the knurling tool measured, with
calipers, along the roller's axis is 0.060"

How do you measure the distance between each tooth "along the rollers
axis"? The teeth are on the rollers circumference aren't they? What am
I missing?

Suppose the axis of the diamond-pattern knurl wheel is parallel to the
lathe's x axis. The teeth of the knurl are at some angle to that axis,
say 35 degrees. If you orient your caliper at 35 degrees when you
measure tooth separation and you measure 0.0344", then along x the
tooth distance is 0.0344/sin(35) ~ 0.060", which apparently is what J.
A. Harvey in http://www.proshoppublishing.com/articles_knurling.html
is talking about measuring.

However, in the articles about straight knurls, the pitch used in the
calculations is tooth separation measured along the x-axis, and it
seems to me that's the relevant pitch for diamond knurling too. For
both straight and diamond knurls you can get that number by dividing
(pi*D) by the number of teeth, where D is a diameter of the knurl wheel.

--
jiw

In article ,
Karl Townsend wrote:

...
In spite of anything you may read, any diameter can be successfully knurled,
assuming you're not using a straight knurl. ANY DIAMETER!

Secret to success is all in how you start the knurl. I've written an
article on that subject in the distant past. Pick up on the technique and
you can start a successful knurl virtually 100% of the time.

While it's true that a knurl is, in a sense, a gear of sorts, it is also
true that it can wander side to side, which compensates for pitch anomalies.

Harold

I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really.

Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what
was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't
provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still
comes out double tracked and I don't know why.

The math is simple, and does parallel that for gears.

Let's start with a straight knurl (where the ridges are parallel to the
knurl wheel rotation axis).

If we have a knurl wheel in a holder with wheel axis parallel to the
rotation axis of the lathe spindle and bring the knurl wheel into
contact with the spinning workpiece, the knurl will impress a series of
parallel lines into the workpiece.

After a bit more than one rotation of the workpiece, the parallel knurl
lines will be all the way around the workpiece, plus a little overlap.
Ideally, the later knurl lines will land exactly on top of the early
knurl lines. If this is achieved, then as the knurl deepens, the knurl
wheel will by gear action be kept in exact step with the workpiece, and
there will be no double knurling.

For this to happen, the circumference of the work piece must be an exact
multiple of the spacing between knurl lines, and thus of the spacing
between ridges on the knurl wheel.

Said in math, (Pi*Dwork)/m = (Pi*Dknurl)/n

Simplifying the math and cancelling the factor of Pi, allowed workpiece
diameters are Dwork=(m/n)*Dknurl, where m is the integer number of
ridges to be pressed into the workpiece and n is the integer number of
ridges on the knurl wheel, and Dknurl is the outside diameter of the
knurl wheel.

The same formula works with angled-line knurl wheels where the axis of
rotation is parallel to that of the workpiece, so long as one always
uses the number of ridges in the circumference of the knurl wheel; this
does not change with line angle.

If the axis of rotation of the knurl wheel is not parallel to that of
the workpiece rotation axis, the optimum workpiece diameter will change
from that computed above; this allows one to adjust to a non-optimum
workpiece diameter, so long as the workpiece is securely clamped so it
won't creep under the resulting axial force. Lubrication is likely
necessary as well.

Joe Gwinn

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
snip-

I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really.

Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what
was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't
provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still
comes out double tracked and I don't know why.

Care to look up or repeat your advice?

Kar

Karl,
It's all in how you start the knurl. There's generally two scenarios---one
whereby you knurl from the end of a piece to some predetermined width, and
the other is starting a knurl anywhere but the end of a part. The technique
is similar in that depth is critical.

For starting a knurl on the end of a piece of stock, try this. Follow the
instructions exactly as I present them---it almost never fails, and when it
does you can try a second time. Be advised that this method has the
potential to go too deep, so it's not a bad idea to have a little extra
stock on the part that can be faced off, or you can chamfer the piece to
eliminate the undersized area. It's always nice to chamfer the end of a
knurl, anyway, to avoid getting cut.

I read your comment about the scissor type of tool I'm almost embarrassed
to say, I started in the shop back in '57, and I've never used one.
They're good. In fact, damned good, but I have no experience with them, so
I can't address how it would work for these instructions. I expect not too
good.

Ok, lets get started. I'm going to assume you'd use the conventional
knurling tool, one that mounts in the tool post, and is not a scissor type.

Align the tool so it is parallel to the part, and on center. Start the
spindle, and move the knurling tool to the very end of the part, so only
about 1/16" of the knurls will contact the rotating piece. Oil the tool
and work piece, then rapidly plunge the knurling tool in to the rotating
part (which should be rotating at a modest speed). Try for full depth of
the knurl immediately. This generally doesn't permit the knurl to split.
If it does, chamfer the knurl so it can't guide the next attempt, then
rotate one of the wheels slightly and move over another 1/16". Repeat. If
the knurl starts successfully, back off slightly (don't try for full depth
with one pass) and run the knurl to length, using a coarse feed (.010" or
greater). If the tool is square with the part, you can knurl in either
direction with equal success. When you hit the length desired, reverse the
machine if you have that capability. Otherwise reverse the feed. Take as
many passes as are required to achieve the depth that pleases you. I'm a
full depth kind of guy, like to see the knurl pointed. YMMV. My
experience with this method, and I've pressed hundreds of knurls, is
virtually 100% successful.

If you must start a knurl away from the edge of the part, make a couple
pencils marks on the rotating material that define the boundaries of the
knurl. With the spindle running at a modest speed, locate the wheels
between the two lines, but favor one side or the other, for you're going to
move the carriage as you engage the wheels. I like to move the carriage
towards the headstock, so I generally pick near the left hand line to start
the knurl. Oil the tool and part, then rapidly crank the cross slide in
as you move the carriage to the side. Insure that you've cranked deep
enough that the knurl is well defined. If you don't, it can split. Take
note if the knurl is proper as it comes around. If it has split, pull out
and move over and repeat, after nudging one of the wheels. When the knurl
is acceptable, you can track right over the other one, which it will
correct, assuming you have the proper knurl to an acceptable depth.
Using the same method as above, feed side to side and deepen the knurl to
your satisfaction.

The above applies to a diamond knurl only. A straight knurl won't respond
in kind, although if you have poor spacing, you can generally knurl again
and again until the metal has cold flowed to yield a proper knurl. It does
that by shedding metal until it's the proper diameter. Much easier to start
with the right diameter.

Hope this helps.

Trust me---it works! ;-)

Harold

On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 05:56:48 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

...
In spite of anything you may read, any diameter can be successfully knurled,
assuming you're not using a straight knurl. ANY DIAMETER!

Secret to success is all in how you start the knurl. I've written an
article on that subject in the distant past. Pick up on the technique and
you can start a successful knurl virtually 100% of the time.

While it's true that a knurl is, in a sense, a gear of sorts, it is also
true that it can wander side to side, which compensates for pitch anomalies.

Harold

I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really.

Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what
was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't
provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still
comes out double tracked and I don't know why.

Care to look up or repeat your advice?

Karl


Try:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...g-work-110664/

Bob
rgentry at oz dot net

On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 04:22:28 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
.. .
snip-

I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really.

Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what
was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't
provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still
comes out double tracked and I don't know why.

Care to look up or repeat your advice?

Kar

Karl,
It's all in how you start the knurl. There's generally two scenarios---one
whereby you knurl from the end of a piece to some predetermined width, and
the other is starting a knurl anywhere but the end of a part. The technique
is similar in that depth is critical.

For starting a knurl on the end of a piece of stock, try this. Follow the
instructions exactly as I present them---it almost never fails, and when it
does you can try a second time. Be advised that this method has the
potential to go too deep, so it's not a bad idea to have a little extra
stock on the part that can be faced off, or you can chamfer the piece to
eliminate the undersized area. It's always nice to chamfer the end of a
knurl, anyway, to avoid getting cut.

I read your comment about the scissor type of tool I'm almost embarrassed
to say, I started in the shop back in '57, and I've never used one.
They're good. In fact, damned good, but I have no experience with them, so
I can't address how it would work for these instructions. I expect not too
good.

Ok, lets get started. I'm going to assume you'd use the conventional
knurling tool, one that mounts in the tool post, and is not a scissor type.

Align the tool so it is parallel to the part, and on center. Start the
spindle, and move the knurling tool to the very end of the part, so only
about 1/16" of the knurls will contact the rotating piece. Oil the tool
and work piece, then rapidly plunge the knurling tool in to the rotating
part (which should be rotating at a modest speed). Try for full depth of
the knurl immediately. This generally doesn't permit the knurl to split.
If it does, chamfer the knurl so it can't guide the next attempt, then
rotate one of the wheels slightly and move over another 1/16". Repeat. If
the knurl starts successfully, back off slightly (don't try for full depth
with one pass) and run the knurl to length, using a coarse feed (.010" or
greater). If the tool is square with the part, you can knurl in either
direction with equal success. When you hit the length desired, reverse the
machine if you have that capability. Otherwise reverse the feed. Take as
many passes as are required to achieve the depth that pleases you. I'm a
full depth kind of guy, like to see the knurl pointed. YMMV. My
experience with this method, and I've pressed hundreds of knurls, is
virtually 100% successful.

If you must start a knurl away from the edge of the part, make a couple
pencils marks on the rotating material that define the boundaries of the
knurl. With the spindle running at a modest speed, locate the wheels
between the two lines, but favor one side or the other, for you're going to
move the carriage as you engage the wheels. I like to move the carriage
towards the headstock, so I generally pick near the left hand line to start
the knurl. Oil the tool and part, then rapidly crank the cross slide in
as you move the carriage to the side. Insure that you've cranked deep
enough that the knurl is well defined. If you don't, it can split. Take
note if the knurl is proper as it comes around. If it has split, pull out
and move over and repeat, after nudging one of the wheels. When the knurl
is acceptable, you can track right over the other one, which it will
correct, assuming you have the proper knurl to an acceptable depth.
Using the same method as above, feed side to side and deepen the knurl to
your satisfaction.

The above applies to a diamond knurl only. A straight knurl won't respond
in kind, although if you have poor spacing, you can generally knurl again
and again until the metal has cold flowed to yield a proper knurl. It does
that by shedding metal until it's the proper diameter. Much easier to start
with the right diameter.

Hope this helps.

Trust me---it works! ;-)

Harold


Thanks for the tips. I saved a copy to my "Machining" folder and will
bring it up next time I have the need.

The key item for me was trying a small bit and then flicking the wheel
if its not right.

The scissor tool actually makes it easier to quickly plunge to depth.
I got mine at an auction for peanuts along with a lifetime supply of
every possible knurl wheel.

Karl