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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Has anyone tried knurling on a CNC milling machine
Hi Gunner,
I looked at the link that you provided and am totally confused. Quote: "Suppose you want to impress a diamond knurl on a 1"-dia. shaft and the distance between each tooth of the knurling tool measured, with calipers, along the roller's axis is 0.060" How do you measure the distance between each tooth "along the rollers axis"? The teeth are on the rollers circumference aren't they? What am I missing? Thanks, Ivan Vegvary |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Has anyone tried knurling on a CNC milling machine
On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 17:35:21 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary
wrote: Hi Gunner, I looked at the link that you provided and am totally confused. Quote: "Suppose you want to impress a diamond knurl on a 1"-dia. shaft and the distance between each tooth of the knurling tool measured, with calipers, along the roller's axis is 0.060" How do you measure the distance between each tooth "along the rollers axis"? The teeth are on the rollers circumference aren't they? What am I missing? Thanks, Ivan Vegvary Which link was it? As far as I know..the distance between rollers really doesnt mean ****e. Gunner -- Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head. |
#3
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Has anyone tried knurling on a CNC milling machine
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message ... Hi Gunner, I looked at the link that you provided and am totally confused. Quote: "Suppose you want to impress a diamond knurl on a 1"-dia. shaft and the distance between each tooth of the knurling tool measured, with calipers, along the roller's axis is 0.060" How do you measure the distance between each tooth "along the rollers axis"? The teeth are on the rollers circumference aren't they? What am I missing? Thanks, Ivan Vegvary In spite of anything you may read, any diameter can be successfully knurled, assuming you're not using a straight knurl. ANY DIAMETER! Secret to success is all in how you start the knurl. I've written an article on that subject in the distant past. Pick up on the technique and you can start a successful knurl virtually 100% of the time. While it's true that a knurl is, in a sense, a gear of sorts, it is also true that it can wander side to side, which compensates for pitch anomalies. Harold |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Has anyone tried knurling on a CNC milling machine
....
In spite of anything you may read, any diameter can be successfully knurled, assuming you're not using a straight knurl. ANY DIAMETER! Secret to success is all in how you start the knurl. I've written an article on that subject in the distant past. Pick up on the technique and you can start a successful knurl virtually 100% of the time. While it's true that a knurl is, in a sense, a gear of sorts, it is also true that it can wander side to side, which compensates for pitch anomalies. Harold I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really. Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still comes out double tracked and I don't know why. Care to look up or repeat your advice? Karl |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Has anyone tried knurling on a CNC milling machine
On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 05:56:48 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote: ... In spite of anything you may read, any diameter can be successfully knurled, assuming you're not using a straight knurl. ANY DIAMETER! Secret to success is all in how you start the knurl. I've written an article on that subject in the distant past. Pick up on the technique and you can start a successful knurl virtually 100% of the time. While it's true that a knurl is, in a sense, a gear of sorts, it is also true that it can wander side to side, which compensates for pitch anomalies. Harold I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really. Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still comes out double tracked and I don't know why. Care to look up or repeat your advice? Karl Straight or diamond knurl? Gunner -- Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head. |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Has anyone tried knurling on a CNC milling machine
On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 05:19:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 05:56:48 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote: ... In spite of anything you may read, any diameter can be successfully knurled, assuming you're not using a straight knurl. ANY DIAMETER! Secret to success is all in how you start the knurl. I've written an article on that subject in the distant past. Pick up on the technique and you can start a successful knurl virtually 100% of the time. While it's true that a knurl is, in a sense, a gear of sorts, it is also true that it can wander side to side, which compensates for pitch anomalies. Harold I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really. Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still comes out double tracked and I don't know why. Care to look up or repeat your advice? Karl Straight or diamond knurl? Gunner The straight knurls are way more troublesome. I have managed to fark up both. One of the threads you reference talked about making it a multiple of the knurl distance. I've never done this. |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Has anyone tried knurling on a CNC milling machine
In article ,
Karl Townsend wrote: ... In spite of anything you may read, any diameter can be successfully knurled, assuming you're not using a straight knurl. ANY DIAMETER! Secret to success is all in how you start the knurl. I've written an article on that subject in the distant past. Pick up on the technique and you can start a successful knurl virtually 100% of the time. While it's true that a knurl is, in a sense, a gear of sorts, it is also true that it can wander side to side, which compensates for pitch anomalies. Harold I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really. Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still comes out double tracked and I don't know why. The math is simple, and does parallel that for gears. Let's start with a straight knurl (where the ridges are parallel to the knurl wheel rotation axis). If we have a knurl wheel in a holder with wheel axis parallel to the rotation axis of the lathe spindle and bring the knurl wheel into contact with the spinning workpiece, the knurl will impress a series of parallel lines into the workpiece. After a bit more than one rotation of the workpiece, the parallel knurl lines will be all the way around the workpiece, plus a little overlap. Ideally, the later knurl lines will land exactly on top of the early knurl lines. If this is achieved, then as the knurl deepens, the knurl wheel will by gear action be kept in exact step with the workpiece, and there will be no double knurling. For this to happen, the circumference of the work piece must be an exact multiple of the spacing between knurl lines, and thus of the spacing between ridges on the knurl wheel. Said in math, (Pi*Dwork)/m = (Pi*Dknurl)/n Simplifying the math and cancelling the factor of Pi, allowed workpiece diameters are Dwork=(m/n)*Dknurl, where m is the integer number of ridges to be pressed into the workpiece and n is the integer number of ridges on the knurl wheel, and Dknurl is the outside diameter of the knurl wheel. The same formula works with angled-line knurl wheels where the axis of rotation is parallel to that of the workpiece, so long as one always uses the number of ridges in the circumference of the knurl wheel; this does not change with line angle. If the axis of rotation of the knurl wheel is not parallel to that of the workpiece rotation axis, the optimum workpiece diameter will change from that computed above; this allows one to adjust to a non-optimum workpiece diameter, so long as the workpiece is securely clamped so it won't creep under the resulting axial force. Lubrication is likely necessary as well. Joe Gwinn |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Has anyone tried knurling on a CNC milling machine
"Karl Townsend" wrote in message ... snip- I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really. Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still comes out double tracked and I don't know why. Care to look up or repeat your advice? Kar Karl, It's all in how you start the knurl. There's generally two scenarios---one whereby you knurl from the end of a piece to some predetermined width, and the other is starting a knurl anywhere but the end of a part. The technique is similar in that depth is critical. For starting a knurl on the end of a piece of stock, try this. Follow the instructions exactly as I present them---it almost never fails, and when it does you can try a second time. Be advised that this method has the potential to go too deep, so it's not a bad idea to have a little extra stock on the part that can be faced off, or you can chamfer the piece to eliminate the undersized area. It's always nice to chamfer the end of a knurl, anyway, to avoid getting cut. I read your comment about the scissor type of tool I'm almost embarrassed to say, I started in the shop back in '57, and I've never used one. They're good. In fact, damned good, but I have no experience with them, so I can't address how it would work for these instructions. I expect not too good. Ok, lets get started. I'm going to assume you'd use the conventional knurling tool, one that mounts in the tool post, and is not a scissor type. Align the tool so it is parallel to the part, and on center. Start the spindle, and move the knurling tool to the very end of the part, so only about 1/16" of the knurls will contact the rotating piece. Oil the tool and work piece, then rapidly plunge the knurling tool in to the rotating part (which should be rotating at a modest speed). Try for full depth of the knurl immediately. This generally doesn't permit the knurl to split. If it does, chamfer the knurl so it can't guide the next attempt, then rotate one of the wheels slightly and move over another 1/16". Repeat. If the knurl starts successfully, back off slightly (don't try for full depth with one pass) and run the knurl to length, using a coarse feed (.010" or greater). If the tool is square with the part, you can knurl in either direction with equal success. When you hit the length desired, reverse the machine if you have that capability. Otherwise reverse the feed. Take as many passes as are required to achieve the depth that pleases you. I'm a full depth kind of guy, like to see the knurl pointed. YMMV. My experience with this method, and I've pressed hundreds of knurls, is virtually 100% successful. If you must start a knurl away from the edge of the part, make a couple pencils marks on the rotating material that define the boundaries of the knurl. With the spindle running at a modest speed, locate the wheels between the two lines, but favor one side or the other, for you're going to move the carriage as you engage the wheels. I like to move the carriage towards the headstock, so I generally pick near the left hand line to start the knurl. Oil the tool and part, then rapidly crank the cross slide in as you move the carriage to the side. Insure that you've cranked deep enough that the knurl is well defined. If you don't, it can split. Take note if the knurl is proper as it comes around. If it has split, pull out and move over and repeat, after nudging one of the wheels. When the knurl is acceptable, you can track right over the other one, which it will correct, assuming you have the proper knurl to an acceptable depth. Using the same method as above, feed side to side and deepen the knurl to your satisfaction. The above applies to a diamond knurl only. A straight knurl won't respond in kind, although if you have poor spacing, you can generally knurl again and again until the metal has cold flowed to yield a proper knurl. It does that by shedding metal until it's the proper diameter. Much easier to start with the right diameter. Hope this helps. Trust me---it works! ;-) Harold |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Has anyone tried knurling on a CNC milling machine
On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 04:22:28 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote: "Karl Townsend" wrote in message .. . snip- I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really. Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still comes out double tracked and I don't know why. Care to look up or repeat your advice? Kar Karl, It's all in how you start the knurl. There's generally two scenarios---one whereby you knurl from the end of a piece to some predetermined width, and the other is starting a knurl anywhere but the end of a part. The technique is similar in that depth is critical. For starting a knurl on the end of a piece of stock, try this. Follow the instructions exactly as I present them---it almost never fails, and when it does you can try a second time. Be advised that this method has the potential to go too deep, so it's not a bad idea to have a little extra stock on the part that can be faced off, or you can chamfer the piece to eliminate the undersized area. It's always nice to chamfer the end of a knurl, anyway, to avoid getting cut. I read your comment about the scissor type of tool I'm almost embarrassed to say, I started in the shop back in '57, and I've never used one. They're good. In fact, damned good, but I have no experience with them, so I can't address how it would work for these instructions. I expect not too good. Ok, lets get started. I'm going to assume you'd use the conventional knurling tool, one that mounts in the tool post, and is not a scissor type. Align the tool so it is parallel to the part, and on center. Start the spindle, and move the knurling tool to the very end of the part, so only about 1/16" of the knurls will contact the rotating piece. Oil the tool and work piece, then rapidly plunge the knurling tool in to the rotating part (which should be rotating at a modest speed). Try for full depth of the knurl immediately. This generally doesn't permit the knurl to split. If it does, chamfer the knurl so it can't guide the next attempt, then rotate one of the wheels slightly and move over another 1/16". Repeat. If the knurl starts successfully, back off slightly (don't try for full depth with one pass) and run the knurl to length, using a coarse feed (.010" or greater). If the tool is square with the part, you can knurl in either direction with equal success. When you hit the length desired, reverse the machine if you have that capability. Otherwise reverse the feed. Take as many passes as are required to achieve the depth that pleases you. I'm a full depth kind of guy, like to see the knurl pointed. YMMV. My experience with this method, and I've pressed hundreds of knurls, is virtually 100% successful. If you must start a knurl away from the edge of the part, make a couple pencils marks on the rotating material that define the boundaries of the knurl. With the spindle running at a modest speed, locate the wheels between the two lines, but favor one side or the other, for you're going to move the carriage as you engage the wheels. I like to move the carriage towards the headstock, so I generally pick near the left hand line to start the knurl. Oil the tool and part, then rapidly crank the cross slide in as you move the carriage to the side. Insure that you've cranked deep enough that the knurl is well defined. If you don't, it can split. Take note if the knurl is proper as it comes around. If it has split, pull out and move over and repeat, after nudging one of the wheels. When the knurl is acceptable, you can track right over the other one, which it will correct, assuming you have the proper knurl to an acceptable depth. Using the same method as above, feed side to side and deepen the knurl to your satisfaction. The above applies to a diamond knurl only. A straight knurl won't respond in kind, although if you have poor spacing, you can generally knurl again and again until the metal has cold flowed to yield a proper knurl. It does that by shedding metal until it's the proper diameter. Much easier to start with the right diameter. Hope this helps. Trust me---it works! ;-) Harold Thanks for the tips. I saved a copy to my "Machining" folder and will bring it up next time I have the need. The key item for me was trying a small bit and then flicking the wheel if its not right. The scissor tool actually makes it easier to quickly plunge to depth. I got mine at an auction for peanuts along with a lifetime supply of every possible knurl wheel. Karl |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Has anyone tried knurling on a CNC milling machine
On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 05:56:48 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote: ... In spite of anything you may read, any diameter can be successfully knurled, assuming you're not using a straight knurl. ANY DIAMETER! Secret to success is all in how you start the knurl. I've written an article on that subject in the distant past. Pick up on the technique and you can start a successful knurl virtually 100% of the time. While it's true that a knurl is, in a sense, a gear of sorts, it is also true that it can wander side to side, which compensates for pitch anomalies. Harold I hate to hihack iggy's thread. Well,not really. Knurling is one lathe operation I still F$%^ up and don't know what was wrong. I did go to a scissor type tool so the machine doesn't provide the force and its balanced on forces. But sometime it still comes out double tracked and I don't know why. Care to look up or repeat your advice? Karl Try: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...g-work-110664/ Bob rgentry at oz dot net |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Has anyone tried knurling on a CNC milling machine
On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 17:35:21 -0700, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
I looked at the link that you provided and am totally confused. Quote: "Suppose you want to impress a diamond knurl on a 1"-dia. shaft and the distance between each tooth of the knurling tool measured, with calipers, along the roller's axis is 0.060" How do you measure the distance between each tooth "along the rollers axis"? The teeth are on the rollers circumference aren't they? What am I missing? Suppose the axis of the diamond-pattern knurl wheel is parallel to the lathe's x axis. The teeth of the knurl are at some angle to that axis, say 35 degrees. If you orient your caliper at 35 degrees when you measure tooth separation and you measure 0.0344", then along x the tooth distance is 0.0344/sin(35) ~ 0.060", which apparently is what J. A. Harvey in http://www.proshoppublishing.com/articles_knurling.html is talking about measuring. However, in the articles about straight knurls, the pitch used in the calculations is tooth separation measured along the x-axis, and it seems to me that's the relevant pitch for diamond knurling too. For both straight and diamond knurls you can get that number by dividing (pi*D) by the number of teeth, where D is a diameter of the knurl wheel. -- jiw |
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