Thanks all for the remote troubleshooting! The cap has leads for the
fan, compressor and a common. I can't find my VTVM or any analog
meter but a DVM shown infinite resistance between all terminals at all
settings from milliohms to megohms. I do believe it's safe to say the
cap is caput. To bad all the parts stores are closed today.

Good luck, hope that works out for you. Five or six bucks is
a good wholesale price for a cap. Shipping will be more than
the cost of the part.

Some good VOM will measure farads, to check caps. A ten
dollar "swing needle" VOM can give you a quick Go, or No Go
reading.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...

"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...
Thanks all for the remote troubleshooting! The cap has
leads for
the fan, compressor and a common. I can't find my VTVM or
any
analog meter but a DVM shown infinite resistance between
all
terminals at all settings from milliohms to megohms. I do
believe
it's safe to say the cap is caput. To bad all the parts
stores are
closed today.


A little looking on the web found the cap for $5.30, I bet I
pay $40
locally! Also, it has a "Physical interrupter for safety".
I never
heard of that in a cap.

"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...

"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...
Thanks all for the remote troubleshooting! The cap has leads for
the fan, compressor and a common. I can't find my VTVM or any
analog meter but a DVM shown infinite resistance between all
terminals at all settings from milliohms to megohms. I do believe
it's safe to say the cap is caput. To bad all the parts stores are
closed today.


A little looking on the web found the cap for $5.30, I bet I pay $40
locally! Also, it has a "Physical interrupter for safety". I never
heard of that in a cap.



Government speak for a fuse?
Art

Artemus wrote:

"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...

"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...
Thanks all for the remote troubleshooting! The cap has leads for
the fan, compressor and a common. I can't find my VTVM or any
analog meter but a DVM shown infinite resistance between all
terminals at all settings from milliohms to megohms. I do believe
it's safe to say the cap is caput. To bad all the parts stores are
closed today.


A little looking on the web found the cap for $5.30, I bet I pay $40
locally! Also, it has a "Physical interrupter for safety". I never
heard of that in a cap.



Government speak for a fuse?
Art

sort of- the idea is if the cap overheats and the can lid swells outwards
the leads rip out of the cap and it disconnects.

After the cap charges (it's thin layers of foil separated by
plastic), it will show infinite resistance. You need either
a capacitance scale on your VOM, or use a swing meter VOM on
ohms scale. With the swing needle meter, you put the ohms
leads on, and then reverse the leads. A good cap, the needle
jumps a bit, and then goes to infinity.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...
Thanks all for the remote troubleshooting! The cap has
leads for the
fan, compressor and a common. I can't find my VTVM or any
analog
meter but a DVM shown infinite resistance between all
terminals at all
settings from milliohms to megohms. I do believe it's safe
to say the
cap is caput. To bad all the parts stores are closed
today.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Stormin Mormon wrote:

After the cap charges (it's thin layers of foil separated by
plastic), it will show infinite resistance. You need either
a capacitance scale on your VOM, or use a swing meter VOM on
ohms scale. With the swing needle meter, you put the ohms
leads on, and then reverse the leads. A good cap, the needle
jumps a bit, and then goes to infinity.


That only shows that it has some capacitance, not that it is good.
Some run capacitors are non polarized electrolytics which slowly dry
out, and their capacitance drops.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-AidT on it, because
it's
Teflon coated.

When in doubt, replace!

I agree with your observation. In my simple life as a repair
tech, capacitors are usually either go, or no-go. So, the
swing needle jump test has been very useful.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
message
...

Stormin Mormon wrote:

After the cap charges (it's thin layers of foil separated
by
plastic), it will show infinite resistance. You need
either
a capacitance scale on your VOM, or use a swing meter VOM
on
ohms scale. With the swing needle meter, you put the ohms
leads on, and then reverse the leads. A good cap, the
needle
jumps a bit, and then goes to infinity.


That only shows that it has some capacitance, not that it
is good.
Some run capacitors are non polarized electrolytics which
slowly dry
out, and their capacitance drops.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-AidT on it,
because it's
Teflon coated.

Surgeon's wisdom: when in doubt, rip it out.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...

When in doubt, replace!

Tom Gardner wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" ? wrote in message
...
?
? Stormin Mormon wrote:
??
?? After the cap charges (it's thin layers of foil separated by
?? plastic), it will show infinite resistance. You need either
?? a capacitance scale on your VOM, or use a swing meter VOM on
?? ohms scale. With the swing needle meter, you put the ohms
?? leads on, and then reverse the leads. A good cap, the needle
?? jumps a bit, and then goes to infinity.
?
?
? That only shows that it has some capacitance, not that it is good.
? Some run capacitors are non polarized electrolytics which slowly dry
? out, and their capacitance drops.

When in doubt, replace!


When in doubt, troubleshoot and do a proper repair.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I agree with your observation. In my simple life as a repair
tech, capacitors are usually either go, or no-go. So, the
swing needle jump test has been very useful.


Whatever, but I prefer to know wht really failed rather than throw
parts at a problem. In electronic repair that is called Shot gunning.
Most of the techs at my last job worked that way. I found the problem
and fixed it. I did three to seven times their work each day, by doing
it my way and used about 5% of the parts.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:

I agree with your observation. In my simple life as a repair
tech, capacitors are usually either go, or no-go. So, the
swing needle jump test has been very useful.

Whatever, but I prefer to know wht really failed rather than throw
parts at a problem. In electronic repair that is called Shot gunning.
Most of the techs at my last job worked that way. I found the problem
and fixed it. I did three to seven times their work each day, by doing
it my way and used about 5% of the parts.

When I was a tech at the amusement machine place (everything
from foosball tables to jukeboxes to pinballs to video games;
electronic darts were particularly annoying to fix; the board
itself would wear out from being hit by darts), doing video game
boards, it was usually quicker and cheaper at 19 cents a chip
to just shotgun it rather than dick around with it at a shop rate
of $30.00/hour.

They had a big sign on the shop wall:

"Shop rates:
$30.00/hour
$40.00/hour if you watch
$60.00/hour if you help
$90.00/hour if your kid helps"

;-)

Cheers!
Rich

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I agree with your observation. In my simple life as a repair
tech, capacitors are usually either go, or no-go. So, the
swing needle jump test has been very useful.


Whatever, but I prefer to know wht really failed rather than throw
parts at a problem. In electronic repair that is called Shot
gunning.
Most of the techs at my last job worked that way. I found the
problem
and fixed it. I did three to seven times their work each day, by
doing
it my way and used about 5% of the parts.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-AidT on it, because
it's
Teflon coated.

That's because you really, really know your ****! I only know enough
to shotgun new parts in until it works.

Tom Gardener wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I agree with your observation. In my simple life as a repair
tech, capacitors are usually either go, or no-go. So, the
swing needle jump test has been very useful.


Whatever, but I prefer to know what really failed rather than
throw parts at a problem. In electronic repair that is called Shot
gunning. Most of the techs at my last job worked that way. I found
the problem and fixed it. I did three to seven times their work
each day, by doing it my way and used about 5% of the parts.

That's because you really, really know your ****! I only know enough
to shotgun new parts in until it works.


I didn't start out knowing, but I was determined to become the best
electronics tech that I could. I started mowing lawns at 12 to buy
tools and test equipment and read used college EE textbooks while other
kids were buying comic books and candy.

I will admit that I had 'The Knack' for electronics as a kid, and
sometimes I would wake up in the middle of the night and know exactly
how to fix a problem that had eluded me during the day. I worked with
some who bragged about all the years the spent in school, but I spent
those years doing the work. One could tell you exactly how something
was SUPPOSED to work, but was absolutely useless in the shop. He laid a
hot soldering iron on a large piece of those old 'Excelsior' recycled
paper packing material and started a fire in the shop. He was
screaming, "Run for you life" and standing right in front of the
extinguisher. I grabbed the burning paper and other stuff and ran out
the front door and tossed it into the parking lot and waited for it to
burn out. He was still standing in the same spot, and shaking like a
leaf wen I went back in, ten minutes later. That was his last day, when
the owner found out what happened. He was working for RCA the last time
I saw him, and was told that he was designing TV tuners. That was
before they shut down their consumer products division, because they had
so many bad designs.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:

One could tell you exactly how something
was SUPPOSED to work, but was absolutely useless in the shop.

I have to disagree with that. I ran a maintenance depot for a large
regional computer firm. ANY day, give me a tech who understands
electronic theory (even without any technical "hands-on" experience) over
one who has _only_ had field experience.

With the first, I can train, teach, coax, and even coerce practical
knowlege into, and the process will involve epiphanies of recognition as
he/she ties the theoretical into the practical.

Almost all of the "hands-on-only" techs I've hired were reasonably
competent, perfectly capable of fixing almost everything they'd ever seen
before, and worth their salt in the field -- but few could "make the
leap" intellectually between a new problem, and the reason it existed or
the method to solve it.

I, too, learned electronics starting at age ten, when I joined "The
American Basic Science Club" through an ad in Popular Science. I started
out "hands-on", but got the formal training, too. I even taught my Dad
enough about it that HE went to electronics school, ended up teaching
there eventually, and he and I opened a TV/Radio repair business (back in
the day when they were both repairable and worth repairing).

But no... give me a tech who understands theory every time over one who
does not.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:

One could tell you exactly how something
was SUPPOSED to work, but was absolutely useless in the shop.

I have to disagree with that. I ran a maintenance depot for a large
regional computer firm. ANY day, give me a tech who understands
electronic theory (even without any technical "hands-on" experience) over
one who has _only_ had field experience.

With the first, I can train, teach, coax, and even coerce practical
knowlege into, and the process will involve epiphanies of recognition as
he/she ties the theoretical into the practical.

Almost all of the "hands-on-only" techs I've hired were reasonably
competent, perfectly capable of fixing almost everything they'd ever seen
before, and worth their salt in the field -- but few could "make the
leap" intellectually between a new problem, and the reason it existed or
the method to solve it.

I, too, learned electronics starting at age ten, when I joined "The
American Basic Science Club" through an ad in Popular Science. I started
out "hands-on", but got the formal training, too. I even taught my Dad
enough about it that HE went to electronics school, ended up teaching
there eventually, and he and I opened a TV/Radio repair business (back in
the day when they were both repairable and worth repairing).

But no... give me a tech who understands theory every time over one who
does not.


You're welcome to them. I had better luck teaching the second group,
because the degreed types were insulted that someone dared tell them how
something worked, or how to fix it. The first step in teaching is
having a student who wants to learn. If you don't have that they aren't
going to learn anything useful.

I was working in a TV shop at 13, even though I still had a lot to
learn. I was still able to diagnose most problems without help, but a
few times I needed help to find a simpler way to do the actual repair.
For instance, I was taught to remove the PC board from the early Delco
AM solid state radios and use a bunch of jumpers to reconnect the coils
in the tuner to the board. that took an extra 10 minutes per radio, and
quite often the terminals on the coils would break while being
deoldered. I quickly discovered that a pair of curved hemostats would
let me put a new part into the proper holes under the cast aluminum
body, even though you couldn't see anything. I was able to fix most of
them in little more time than it took to remove the covers. I kept
several full sets of Delco transistors at my bench, but the two most
common failures were the RF and the mixer transistors. Rarely did it
take me more than five minutes to fix one.

When i was drafted I took the MOS test for Broadcast Engineer and got
the highest score on record. I tested out of the three year school, and
went straight to permanent duty.

BTW, most color TVs still had round CRTS like the 25JP22 when I
started, and the 23EGP22 was just hitting the market. It was one of the
worst color CRTs ever made. I moved into broadcast engineering, and
later into electronics manufacturing without any formal education in
electronics but I so many of the mistakes in the pre production samples
that became part of my job. They knew up front that I would tell them
where they screwed up, and what I felt they should do to fix the
problems. They rarely argued with my remarks. They also asked why I
didn't have an EE degree, since I was able to analyze and fix just about
anything and often with no schematics.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:

I had better luck teaching the second group,
because the degreed types were insulted that someone dared tell them
how
something worked, or how to fix it. The first step in teaching is
having a student who wants to learn. If you don't have that they
aren't
going to learn anything useful.

I'm not talking about "degrees". I wouldn't hire a BSEE for that job.
I'm talking about technical school graduates who had some actual theory
under their belts.

BSEEs are in their own little world. MSEEs on another planet, and PhDEEs
in another dimension (not that I don't appreciate the work they do...
that's what keeps us "grunts" working)

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:

I had better luck teaching the second group,
because the degreed types were insulted that someone dared tell them
how
something worked, or how to fix it. The first step in teaching is
having a student who wants to learn. If you don't have that they
aren't
going to learn anything useful.

I'm not talking about "degrees". I wouldn't hire a BSEE for that job.
I'm talking about technical school graduates who had some actual theory
under their belts.

BSEEs are in their own little world. MSEEs on another planet, and PhDEEs
in another dimension (not that I don't appreciate the work they do...
that's what keeps us "grunts" working)


The best EEs I worked with either had a ham license and built or
repaired their equipment, or they worked with electronics as a kid.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:

The best EEs I worked with either had a ham license and built or
repaired their equipment, or they worked with electronics as a kid.

de WA4ZEG

G
Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:

The best EEs I worked with either had a ham license and built or
repaired their equipment, or they worked with electronics as a kid.

de WA4ZEG


I built a radio at eight years old, and was designing my own HF rig
from scratch when I was drafted. People would shake their heads when
they saw the chassis. It was completely modular so I could build new
modules to test different circuits, and it had a lot of pin jacks with a
1 Meg resistor to read voltages without disturbing the circuits.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.