I want to install a ceiling fan in our master bedroom where there is no
outlet box.
While we have a partial basement, our master bedroom is built on a slab
extension.
As best I can tell, the wires from the breaker box are routed above the wall
framing.
There are electrical outlets along the inside walls, so I can ultimately tap
into one of them.
However, the previous owner had several feet of loose insulation blown into
the attic space.
Any suggestions on getting a wire from the inside wall to the center of he
bedroom ceiling?
My current plan is to make the hole for the outlet box, make an access hole
near the top of the wall near the designated outlet, and run wires through
each hole, hoping to catch one with a hook, but I'd be flying blind...
Thanks for your suggestions!
Chet

"Chet" fired this volley in
:

My current plan is to make the hole for the outlet box, make an access
hole near the top of the wall near the designated outlet, and run
wires through each hole, hoping to catch one with a hook, but I'd be
flying blind... Thanks for your suggestions!

"Flying blind" is kind of how wire fishing is done. It is a skill best
learned by doing.

Generally, a wire is fished down the wall through a hole in the header.
You may simplify your work by removing the old outlet box completely (a
task in itself to remove it without either cutting the wires accidently
or destroying the wall).

After removing the old box, you'll have a nice big "port" in the wall
through which to work. The easiest way to fish that sort of "drop" is,
in fact, to DROP a weighted line through the header down to the outlet
hole, then hook it out and pull the wire through.

In this sort of retro-fit, you'll end up violating code, because you
cannot staple the wire to the adjacent stud near the outlet box. The
only way you can do that is to cut out a large enough section of drywall
to do the stapling, then repair the wall. But if you're going to all
that trouble, then the fishing job becomes a lot easier. The other
alternative might be to run conduit down to the box. Current Code isn't
something I keep close tabs on, since I haven't done any electrical
wiring changes in about ten years, and then only for myself.

You're going to have to steel yourself to working in that pile of
insulation... you have no choice. Take a small garden rake or a small
pitchfork up there with you to remove insulation from the work area
without compacting it.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Chet" fired this volley in
:

My current plan is to make the hole for the outlet box, make an access
hole near the top of the wall near the designated outlet, and run
wires through each hole, hoping to catch one with a hook, but I'd be
flying blind... Thanks for your suggestions!

"Flying blind" is kind of how wire fishing is done. It is a skill best
learned by doing.

Generally, a wire is fished down the wall through a hole in the header.
You may simplify your work by removing the old outlet box completely (a
task in itself to remove it without either cutting the wires accidently
or destroying the wall).

After removing the old box, you'll have a nice big "port" in the wall
through which to work. The easiest way to fish that sort of "drop" is,
in fact, to DROP a weighted line through the header down to the outlet
hole, then hook it out and pull the wire through.

In this sort of retro-fit, you'll end up violating code, because you
cannot staple the wire to the adjacent stud near the outlet box. The
only way you can do that is to cut out a large enough section of drywall
to do the stapling, then repair the wall. But if you're going to all
that trouble, then the fishing job becomes a lot easier. The other
alternative might be to run conduit down to the box. Current Code isn't
something I keep close tabs on, since I haven't done any electrical
wiring changes in about ten years, and then only for myself.

You're going to have to steel yourself to working in that pile of
insulation... you have no choice. Take a small garden rake or a small
pitchfork up there with you to remove insulation from the work area
without compacting it.

LLoyd

The NEC allowed an exception for this case, at least up to 1990 when I got
my license. As a practical matter I can't see that changing for retrofit
outlet boxes. A pivoting mirror and a flashlight also helps for fishing in
wires. Insulation and bridging are a bitch to work around.

"ATP" wrote in message
...

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Chet" fired this volley in
:

My current plan is to make the hole for the outlet box, make an access
hole near the top of the wall near the designated outlet, and run
wires through each hole, hoping to catch one with a hook, but I'd be
flying blind... Thanks for your suggestions!

"Flying blind" is kind of how wire fishing is done. It is a skill best
learned by doing.

Generally, a wire is fished down the wall through a hole in the header.
You may simplify your work by removing the old outlet box completely (a
task in itself to remove it without either cutting the wires accidently
or destroying the wall).

After removing the old box, you'll have a nice big "port" in the wall
through which to work. The easiest way to fish that sort of "drop" is,
in fact, to DROP a weighted line through the header down to the outlet
hole, then hook it out and pull the wire through.

In this sort of retro-fit, you'll end up violating code, because you
cannot staple the wire to the adjacent stud near the outlet box. The
only way you can do that is to cut out a large enough section of drywall
to do the stapling, then repair the wall. But if you're going to all
that trouble, then the fishing job becomes a lot easier. The other
alternative might be to run conduit down to the box. Current Code isn't
something I keep close tabs on, since I haven't done any electrical
wiring changes in about ten years, and then only for myself.

You're going to have to steel yourself to working in that pile of
insulation... you have no choice. Take a small garden rake or a small
pitchfork up there with you to remove insulation from the work area
without compacting it.

LLoyd

The NEC allowed an exception for this case, at least up to 1990 when I got
my license. As a practical matter I can't see that changing for retrofit
outlet boxes. A pivoting mirror and a flashlight also helps for fishing in
wires. Insulation and bridging are a bitch to work around.

One comment on the insulation: If it's blown-in, it's probably chopped
fiberglass or cellulose. But if it's poured-in vermiculite, and if it was
done before 1993 or so, watch out. There's a 70% chance that it contains a
lot of asbestos -- as much as 5%. If it was poured in after that date,
you're probably in the clear.

--
Ed Huntress (Another home handyman who treasures his fishtapes. g)

In article ,
"Chet" wrote:

I want to install a ceiling fan in our master bedroom where there is no
outlet box.
While we have a partial basement, our master bedroom is built on a slab
extension.
As best I can tell, the wires from the breaker box are routed above the wall
framing.
There are electrical outlets along the inside walls, so I can ultimately tap
into one of them.
However, the previous owner had several feet of loose insulation blown into
the attic space.
Any suggestions on getting a wire from the inside wall to the center of he
bedroom ceiling?
My current plan is to make the hole for the outlet box, make an access hole
near the top of the wall near the designated outlet, and run wires through
each hole, hoping to catch one with a hook, but I'd be flying blind...
Thanks for your suggestions!
Chet

Thank heavens you can even get to the attic, and take a respirator and a
shovel with you. Dig down to the ceiling, put your fan box with supports
in, (don't be putting in a fan without a properly anchored and supported
box - if you didn't have an attic, you'd need to put in a good sized
hole in the ceiling and then patch it) and run the wire to the wall. If
the wire is, in fact, above the wall framing, you can put in a junction
box there and not even have to get into the walls. Then shovel the
insulation back where it came from.

In general, it's good to be comfortable with drywall repairs if doing
electrical in an already-built house. In this case, you might get away
without it.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Guys, thanks for all the useful info!
I'm going to try the outlet box removal trick, an access hole in the ceiling
next to the wall to route the wire, and the installation of an 'Old Work'
outlet box for fans...
Still not sure how I'm going to deal with a 'waterfall' of loose insulation
when I make both holes, especially the part about putting it back!
If I pull it off, I'll post the process...
Chet

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Chet" wrote:

I want to install a ceiling fan in our master bedroom where there is no
outlet box.
While we have a partial basement, our master bedroom is built on a slab
extension.
As best I can tell, the wires from the breaker box are routed above the
wall
framing.
There are electrical outlets along the inside walls, so I can ultimately
tap
into one of them.
However, the previous owner had several feet of loose insulation blown
into
the attic space.
Any suggestions on getting a wire from the inside wall to the center of
he
bedroom ceiling?
My current plan is to make the hole for the outlet box, make an access
hole
near the top of the wall near the designated outlet, and run wires
through
each hole, hoping to catch one with a hook, but I'd be flying blind...
Thanks for your suggestions!
Chet

Thank heavens you can even get to the attic, and take a respirator and a
shovel with you. Dig down to the ceiling, put your fan box with supports
in, (don't be putting in a fan without a properly anchored and supported
box - if you didn't have an attic, you'd need to put in a good sized
hole in the ceiling and then patch it) and run the wire to the wall. If
the wire is, in fact, above the wall framing, you can put in a junction
box there and not even have to get into the walls. Then shovel the
insulation back where it came from.

In general, it's good to be comfortable with drywall repairs if doing
electrical in an already-built house. In this case, you might get away
without it.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

"Chet" wrote in message
...
Guys, thanks for all the useful info!
I'm going to try the outlet box removal trick, an access hole in the
ceiling next to the wall to route the wire, and the installation of
an 'Old Work' outlet box for fans...
Still not sure how I'm going to deal with a 'waterfall' of loose
insulation when I make both holes, especially the part about putting
it back!
If I pull it off, I'll post the process...
Chet

C:

To drill your locating hole in the ceiling, tape a bag around
your drill, avoiding engagement of plastic in moving
elements. Drill the pilot hole, run a pluggins
dowel or some signalizing rod up into the attic.
Binder clip any hole in the bag closed.

Go to the attic. Clear your insulation away from the hole.
Cut a door in a the right-sized box, tape a flapover the door
and put said box over the hole to hold some insulation away.
Think about taping the box to the ceiling to stop infiltration
of debris underneath its margins.

Work through the cut out. Junk will fall into your bag below.
With the barricade in place though, you won't get so
much.

If you have a 7' snow drift of insulation, "joy" will
probably not be the short word on your lips.

Tailor the above to you circumstances if it argues any
possibility.

Good luck,

Edward Hennessey

"Ecnerwal" wrote in
message
...
In article ,
"Chet" wrote:

I want to install a ceiling fan in our master bedroom where there
is no
outlet box.
While we have a partial basement, our master bedroom is built on a
slab
extension.
As best I can tell, the wires from the breaker box are routed
above the wall
framing.
There are electrical outlets along the inside walls, so I can
ultimately tap
into one of them.
However, the previous owner had several feet of loose insulation
blown into
the attic space.
Any suggestions on getting a wire from the inside wall to the
center of he
bedroom ceiling?
My current plan is to make the hole for the outlet box, make an
access hole
near the top of the wall near the designated outlet, and run wires
through
each hole, hoping to catch one with a hook, but I'd be flying
blind...
Thanks for your suggestions!
Chet

Thank heavens you can even get to the attic, and take a respirator
and a
shovel with you. Dig down to the ceiling, put your fan box with
supports
in, (don't be putting in a fan without a properly anchored and
supported
box - if you didn't have an attic, you'd need to put in a good
sized
hole in the ceiling and then patch it) and run the wire to the
wall. If
the wire is, in fact, above the wall framing, you can put in a
junction
box there and not even have to get into the walls. Then shovel the
insulation back where it came from.

In general, it's good to be comfortable with drywall repairs if
doing
electrical in an already-built house. In this case, you might get
away
without it.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Chet wrote:

Guys, thanks for all the useful info!
I'm going to try the outlet box removal trick, an access hole in the ceiling
next to the wall to route the wire, and the installation of an 'Old Work'
outlet box for fans...
Still not sure how I'm going to deal with a 'waterfall' of loose insulation
when I make both holes, especially the part about putting it back!
If I pull it off, I'll post the process...


There are special ceiling boxes designed to hold the weigh of a
ceiling fan. A regular 'old work' box will pull out and the fan will
hit the floor, or whatever is in it's path.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 14:05:01 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Chet wrote:

Guys, thanks for all the useful info!
I'm going to try the outlet box removal trick, an access hole in the ceiling
next to the wall to route the wire, and the installation of an 'Old Work'
outlet box for fans...
Still not sure how I'm going to deal with a 'waterfall' of loose insulation
when I make both holes, especially the part about putting it back!
If I pull it off, I'll post the process...


There are special ceiling boxes designed to hold the weigh of a
ceiling fan. A regular 'old work' box will pull out and the fan will
hit the floor, or whatever is in it's path.


Correct. They most often have long arms that rest on adjoining rafters
and support the weight.

Ive seen what happens when you DONT use them. Particularly when one
Hunter fan was placed over a custom leaded glass dining room table. A
very expensive table.......

CRASH!!!...Wap wap wap...tinkle tinkle tinkle....


--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 14:05:01 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Chet wrote:

Guys, thanks for all the useful info!
I'm going to try the outlet box removal trick, an access hole in the ceiling
next to the wall to route the wire, and the installation of an 'Old Work'
outlet box for fans...
Still not sure how I'm going to deal with a 'waterfall' of loose insulation
when I make both holes, especially the part about putting it back!
If I pull it off, I'll post the process...


There are special ceiling boxes designed to hold the weigh of a
ceiling fan. A regular 'old work' box will pull out and the fan will
hit the floor, or whatever is in it's path.

Correct. They most often have long arms that rest on adjoining rafters
and support the weight.

Ive seen what happens when you DONT use them. Particularly when one
Hunter fan was placed over a custom leaded glass dining room table. A
very expensive table.......

CRASH!!!...Wap wap wap...tinkle tinkle tinkle....


Pay me now, or pay me a lot more, later!


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.