On Apr 18, 8:09*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 02:07:37 -0700 (PDT), Andrew VK3BFA

wrote:
You lot going senile, *or What?, - Iggys got the beginnings of a
stuffed back - any of you lot ever been REAL tradesmen, heavy lifting
all your working life.? - dont think so

"dont think so"

Very appropriate for your tombstone based on your posting history.

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " *Jonah Goldberg (modified)

**** off Gunner - (loudmouth yank) this is no time for idiot
"profound" observations. Do it once, do it right (from personal
experience - I blew it, didn't know what was going on- permanent
stuffed back). Iggy has got a good chance of not going down to a
stuffed back. Back off you idiot - - this aint the time for jungle
fantasies.....or tales of derring do with scrap machinery -sad --
your increasingly making no sense at all, you lost it or something?
Perhaps wearing a hat might help?
Whose Jonah Goldberg? - besides someone who has managed to turn their
spell checker to the "on" position......bloody hell Gunner, you used
to be good at this repartee stuff, you were good value. - whats
happened to you, you poor *******? - You believing your own crap?


Andrew VK3BFA.

On 4/18/2011 1:07 AM, Andrew VK3BFA wrote:

Dont go near Doctors, Surgeons, they are bad people, will totally
stuff you around.

When I experienced partial paralysis, which only lasted a day or so, but
left my leg almost totally numb for weeks, my doctor had me set up an
appointment with a surgeon ASAP. I was looking at a week wait to get in,
and in that week, I heard horror story after horror story about back
surgery. Out of several dozen stories, only one success, several with no
improvement, most ended up worse. So I canceled my appt with the surgeon
and went to a chiropractor.
I got immediate improvement, with gradual improvement over the next 6-8
months. From that point on, it was the massage that really helped, and
since Dr Pain was recommending it, Workman's Comp paid for it. Weekly
massage for a year, that was nice. Ultimately WC settled up with me and
that ended that.

Only downside I can see to not having gone to the surgeon is I would
have had a CAT scan done and that would have shown far better than any
x-ray what was going on. But I survived, and within reason for my
present age, I can do almost anything I used to be able to do prior to
injury.

Just don't get hooked up with a chiropractor that seems to want you on a
steady repeat customer basis. You want relief, not contribute to his
vacation condo. One time Dr Pain had to step out just as I was let into
his office. While waiting, I picked up a trade magazine, lead article
was on how to build a steady flow of long term repeat customers.
The rep for chiropractors doing this is not baseless, but not all
subscribe to it.

Oh, and I did find acupuncture helpful too,


Jon

Get yourself to a chiropractor, acupuncturist and massage therapist, as soon
as possible. If he/she isn't helping in three sessions, find different one.

Most find relief in a few days to a few years. Almost everybody learns
something from the pain and learns to do things differently for the rest of
their lives.

Many contemplate suicide after a few months of the pain.

Use ice packs on the afflicted area to reduce the swelling of the pinched
nerves.

This may have taken years and years to get to the bad alignment state you
are in. It doesn't happen overnight.

All the best. You are now special, like many others.

----------------------

"Erik" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Ignoramus29059 wrote:

This morning started out really great. I did not lift anything
heavy. Drove somewhere in my pickup to pick a tool box. When I got out
of the truck, just after 30 minutes of driving, I had sudden back pain
and could not stand up straight without some pain.

For the next 2 hours, I could function, move around and carry things,
but with substantial discomfort.

Then I tried to turn a toolbox around, kind of pushed with one hand in
one direction. Then the pain suddenly became so severe that I could
barely walk. Barely made it to the couch, where I am right now,
totally out of commission.

WTF is wrong and does anyone have any idea if this will ever go away.

i

I'm 57 and had much the same thing happen 4 or 5 years ago... it was
scary. Never had any back issues before or since.

In my case it was lower back and severe, no comfortable position, even
in bed. Then just as suddenly as it appeared, it just 'went away' about
midnight the second night. No rime or reason.

Hope your's goes away soon...

Erik

On Apr 18, 5:07*am, Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
On Apr 18, 4:28*pm, pyotr filipivich wrote:
*(with some good humour, and common sense....)

You lot going senile, *or What?, - Iggys got the beginnings of a
stuffed back - any of you lot ever been REAL tradesmen, heavy lifting
all your working life.? - dont think so. Effete Intellectual Snobs, as
your Spiro Agnew said once.

Iggy - go see a good chiropractor, if he doesn't *feel OK with you, go
try another. A good chiro will conclusively prove to you whats
happening, hard empirical evidence. If he cant, find someone who
will *.Its your back, look after it. Worth the effort - you STILL got
a good chance, dont blow it, OK?

Dont go near Doctors, Surgeons, they are bad people, will totally
stuff you around. *Ignore the Chattering Classes here, *OK?

Andrew VK3BFA.

I *almost* agree. Rather than I chiropractor, I see a physiatrist
(physical medicine specialist) or and osteopath. Both "real" doctors
but NOT surgeons. Of the 20 or so people I know who've had surgery for
this sort of thing, only one had a positive result. The rest stayed
the same or got worse.

Doctors are like any other tradespeople - they do what they know how
to do - you know, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a
nail. All surgeons knopw how to do is cut things, so that's what they
do.

On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 07:43:03 -0700 (PDT), Andrew VK3BFA
wrote:

On Apr 18, 8:09*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 02:07:37 -0700 (PDT), Andrew VK3BFA

wrote:
You lot going senile, *or What?, - Iggys got the beginnings of a
stuffed back - any of you lot ever been REAL tradesmen, heavy lifting
all your working life.? - dont think so

"dont think so"

Very appropriate for your tombstone based on your posting history.

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " *Jonah Goldberg (modified)

**** off Gunner - (loudmouth yank) this is no time for idiot
"profound" observations. Do it once, do it right (from personal
experience - I blew it, didn't know what was going on- permanent
stuffed back).

Son...Ive had (2) back surgeries...because I was a dumb "Real Tradesmen,
heavy lifting all your working life"...THINK SO!!

As have most of the other readers here that have had back problems.

I really wonder, each time I read your posts..are you actually this
****ing arrogant, or simply going into the initial stages of mental
illness.

I had my first back surgery in 1983 and when I went in to get the
staples and stitches taken out..the doctor noticed my leathers and
motorcycle helmet sitting next to me in the exam room. He
froze...paused...blinked..and asked if I actually lived 45 miles away
from the hospital..and when I said "yah..what about it"...the old boy
reamed me a new asshole for riding a motorcycle 9 days after my back
surgery. He told me he would indeed see me again.

And..unfortunately...8 yrs later..he did.

THEN I learned. And Ive not had problems again..other than the long
term problems that came with the 2 surgeries. And I deal with those day
by day.

So dont be blowing off your arrogance and buffoonery. You wear it like a
cheap suit. And frankly old boy..it doesnt look good on you.

Im surprised all the other Dumb Tradesment here...didnt bother stuffing
you up your own ass.

Gunner



--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

Andrew VK3BFA wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Mon, 18 Apr 2011 02:07:37 -0700 (PDT):

On Apr 18, 4:28*pm, pyotr filipivich wrote:
(with some good humour, and common sense....)

You lot going senile, or What?, - Iggys got the beginnings of a
stuffed back - any of you lot ever been REAL tradesmen, heavy lifting
all your working life.? - dont think so. Effete Intellectual Snobs, as
your Spiro Agnew said once.

Iggy - go see a good chiropractor, if he doesn't feel OK with you, go
try another. A good chiro will conclusively prove to you whats
happening, hard empirical evidence. If he cant, find someone who
will .Its your back, look after it. Worth the effort - you STILL got
a good chance, dont blow it, OK?

Dont go near Doctors, Surgeons, they are bad people, will totally
stuff you around. Ignore the Chattering Classes here, OK?

Andrew VK3BFA.

I second what he says. Go to a chiropractor.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

On Sun, 17 Apr 2011 20:13:56 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Apr 17, 10:34*pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:

Unless you've got numbness in a limb or weakness in a group of muscles
(can you stand on your toes on each foot, can you rock back on your
heel and hold your forefoot up?), it's not likely to be a herniated
disk.

RWL

Not correct. You can have herniated discs with absolutely zero
symptoms.

Technically that may be correct since CT / MRI can pick up herniated
discs that are asymptomatic, but in Iggy's case he's symptomatic. Were
you intending to warn him that an abnormal CT or MRI doesn't
necessarily mean that it's that disk that's causing his symptoms?

RWL

Andrew VK3BFA wrote:

On Apr 18, 4:28 pm, pyotr filipivich wrote:
(with some good humour, and common sense....)

You lot going senile, or What?, - Iggys got the beginnings of a
stuffed back - any of you lot ever been REAL tradesmen, heavy lifting
all your working life.? - dont think so. Effete Intellectual Snobs, as
your Spiro Agnew said once.


YAwn... I used to deliver tube type color TV consoles by myself, and
have carried them up several flights of stairs. A few days after my
20th birthday I got mad and picked up a Pontiac 389 short block, by
hand. Before my knee went bad I carried a floor mount drill press
about 50 feet from one of my shops, to another. Do you ever carry
anything other than that chip on your shoulder, or the beam in your eye?


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On Apr 18, 10:59*pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2011 20:13:56 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck

wrote:
On Apr 17, 10:34*pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:

Unless you've got numbness in a limb or weakness in a group of muscles
(can you stand on your toes on each foot, can you rock back on your
heel and hold your forefoot up?), it's not likely to be a herniated
disk.

RWL

Not correct. You can have herniated discs with absolutely zero
symptoms.

Technically that may be correct since CT / MRI can pick up herniated
discs that are asymptomatic, but in Iggy's case he's symptomatic. Were
you intending to warn him that an abnormal CT or MRI doesn't
necessarily mean that it's that disk that's causing his symptoms?

RWL

I didn't suggest that he get a CT or MRI. Pretty much EVERYONE has
something wrong with their back, and those test really aren't very
useful except in exctreme cases or when you have a baseline picture to
compare to.

"Ignoramus29059" wrote in
message ...
This morning started out really great. I did not lift anything
heavy. Drove somewhere in my pickup to pick a tool box. When I got
out
of the truck, just after 30 minutes of driving, I had sudden back
pain
and could not stand up straight without some pain.

For the next 2 hours, I could function, move around and carry
things,
but with substantial discomfort.

Then I tried to turn a toolbox around, kind of pushed with one hand
in
one direction. Then the pain suddenly became so severe that I could
barely walk. Barely made it to the couch, where I am right now,
totally out of commission.

WTF is wrong and does anyone have any idea if this will ever go
away.

i

I:

Diagnosis by remote viewing exceeds my capacity.

But let me give you a reference that you will find
refreshingly analytical, systematic and on point.
Go to Amazon. Look for "The Back Book".
As there may be more than one claimant to
that simple title, look for the one with the highest
customer rating much as I am convicted that
the particular volume in question merits it.

You will see a review of particular problems,
discussion of therapies, rates of patient satisfaction
according to specialist type and procedures undergone,
excercises and techniques for injury prevention and
clear language without mystic claims or miracle
boosterism. If your digestion of the book fails my
recommendation, send me the bill for your
outlay.

My back is fine, though the temporary inspiration
in aftermath of hefting a 250 pound crate was a
significant driver to insure that it remains that way,
particulary after long witness of folks bent or wincing
with chronic pain.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On 4/17/2011 11:57 AM, Ignoramus29059 wrote:
This morning started out really great. I did not lift anything
heavy. Drove somewhere in my pickup to pick a tool box. When I got out
of the truck, just after 30 minutes of driving, I had sudden back pain
and could not stand up straight without some pain.

For the next 2 hours, I could function, move around and carry things,
but with substantial discomfort.

Then I tried to turn a toolbox around, kind of pushed with one hand in
one direction. Then the pain suddenly became so severe that I could
barely walk. Barely made it to the couch, where I am right now,
totally out of commission.

WTF is wrong and does anyone have any idea if this will ever go away.

i


Let me guess. You're over 40, right? Welcome to the new world of being
old. The back is one of the first things to go. After 40 your discs have
degenerated to the point where you will most likely have problems from
now on. It's not a matter of if but a matter of how often and how bad.
I've had a bad back for decades.

In your specific case you most likely have a disc bulge or what they
call a slipped disc, or a pinched nerve. But if you're lucky it's just a
muscular problem. The first thing you need to do is get yourself to a
chiropractor. Find a good one and he will be able to diagnose what your
problem is. But like I said, I have had a bad back for years so I know
what you're feeling. When your back goes out your life is over. If it's
bad enough you will not be able to do anything and you will feel very
bad pain. Sitting on the toilet can be torture.

You can rest, go to the doctor, put ice on it, but the chiropractor is
who to go see. Don't listen to people who tell you they don't help. They
do. The other thing you can do is get an inversion table. I've been
using one for the last 3 years and it has done wonders for my low back.
It's saved me thousands in chiropractor bills. Life with a bad back is
miserable. This is your first episode. You need to find a chiropractor
and get some treatment. Don't go to the doctor. All they do is tell you
to rest and give you muscle relaxers, which do you no good.

Hawke

I will second every last comment made by Hawke. The inversion table was one
of the biggest healers for my back. Fill up on water after inversion to feed
the disc rehydration.

Do the rest (of his techniques) but I added acupuncture to the list.
Acupuncture is a great pain relief and you should feel the difference in one
treatment. Stop if none is had (wasted money). Another I would add is
regular doses of Ibuprofen to lower the inflammation caused, along with the
ice packs. Give yourself a break from that (ibuprofen) every week, say on
Sundays to help save yourself from kidney failure.

Do it all and don't be a victim. You're not alone.

-----------------------


"Hawke" wrote in message ...
Let me guess. You're over 40, right? Welcome to the new world of being
old. The back is one of the first things to go. After 40 your discs have
degenerated to the point where you will most likely have problems from
now on. It's not a matter of if but a matter of how often and how bad.
I've had a bad back for decades.

In your specific case you most likely have a disc bulge or what they
call a slipped disc, or a pinched nerve. But if you're lucky it's just a
muscular problem. The first thing you need to do is get yourself to a
chiropractor. Find a good one and he will be able to diagnose what your
problem is. But like I said, I have had a bad back for years so I know
what you're feeling. When your back goes out your life is over. If it's
bad enough you will not be able to do anything and you will feel very
bad pain. Sitting on the toilet can be torture.

You can rest, go to the doctor, put ice on it, but the chiropractor is
who to go see. Don't listen to people who tell you they don't help. They
do. The other thing you can do is get an inversion table. I've been
using one for the last 3 years and it has done wonders for my low back.
It's saved me thousands in chiropractor bills. Life with a bad back is
miserable. This is your first episode. You need to find a chiropractor
and get some treatment. Don't go to the doctor. All they do is tell you
to rest and give you muscle relaxers, which do you no good.

Hawke

On Apr 19, 3:06*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 07:43:03 -0700 (PDT), Andrew VK3BFA

OK, I will regret this, but

Its Gunner being the mad rabbit in the field again, Jumping up and
Down, yelling "shoot at me, shoot at me..." - and there's a kid with a
22 walking past......I mean, really, what can you do?

Son...Ive had (2) back surgeries...because I was a dumb "Real Tradesmen,
heavy lifting all your working life"...THINK SO!!

Twice, eh - what happened, you didn't see any significance in the
first one? - surprised "my time in the Jungle" hasn't crept in here
already.

If you backs that stuffed, whats with all the postings of you and
heavy machinery? - bit sus mate.

As have most of the other readers here that have had back problems.

Nope, only some of them (and apologies to them) - most people only
ever suffer paper cuts, - good luck to them too. Most older tradesmen
are carrying some sort of long term injury. At trade school, young
guy, tried to stop a forklift with his boot cap - dint work, hes got a
permanent injury now. Starting young, hes about 18 I think.

I really wonder, each time I read your posts..are you actually this
****ing arrogant, or simply going into the initial stages of mental
illness.

Dont mean to be arrogant - but in the face of such obdurate idiocy,
what choice do I have.? Mental illness - have to agree to that one -
cant resist obvious targets, its definitely a mental health condition.

I had my first back surgery in 1983 and when I went in to get the
staples and stitches taken out..the doctor noticed my leathers and
motorcycle helmet sitting next to me in the exam room. He
froze...paused...blinked..and asked if I actually lived 45 miles away
from the hospital..and when I said "yah..what about it"...the old boy
reamed me a new asshole for riding a motorcycle 9 days after my back
surgery. He told me he would indeed see me again.

And..unfortunately...8 yrs later..he did.

OK, lets rave about motorcycles for a while. Happy to do it. You ever
gunna (good name, there) going to actually DO anything with that Honda
350 you got - sell some scrap metal, buy the bits, get the head done
for new cam carriers etc - get into it you slacker.

THEN I learned. *And Ive not had problems again..other than the long
term problems that came with the 2 surgeries. *And I deal with those day
by day.

The bike died, right? You got older, right?


So dont be blowing off your arrogance and buffoonery. You wear it like a
cheap suit. *And frankly old boy..it doesnt look good on *you.

Your right - I look totally stupid in a suit, I think you gotta be
born on the right side of the tracks to wear one. I got one, weddings
and funerals. Next time I wear it, will be my funeral I guess.
Arrogance and buffoonery - is this some sort of a competition? - is
someone running a book on it?

Im surprised all the other Dumb Tradesment here...didnt bother stuffing
you up your own ass.

No mate, thats only in your peculiar, isolated la la land. They were/
are just people, like everyone else - some good, some bad. All proud
to be Union. The dignity of Labour. Get annoyed by little pricks
talking out of their depth a bit, mostly dont arc up.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Gunner

On Apr 19, 1:21*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Andrew VK3BFA wrote:



So? - you did stupid things, like the rest of us. Eventually,
something broke, and we had to stop. And carry the now painful
consequences. .How long did you do this for? - how many years? -

You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Yep, true.

Andrew VK3BFA.

On Apr 19, 3:24*pm, "Josepi" wrote:
I will second every last comment made by Hawke. The inversion table was one
of the biggest healers for my back. Fill up on water after inversion to feed
the disc rehydration.

Do the rest (of his techniques) but I added acupuncture to the list.
Acupuncture is a great pain relief and you should feel the difference in one
treatment. Stop if none is had (wasted money). *Another I would add is
regular doses of Ibuprofen to lower the inflammation caused, along with the
ice packs. Give yourself a break from that (ibuprofen) *every week, say on
Sundays to help save yourself from kidney failure.

Do it all and don't be a victim. You're not alone.


A couple of other points:

1) If you are going to take Ibuprofen (or any other NSAID)(which works
to reduce the swelling that may be causing the pain) regularly, you
should also take some sort of stomach acid reducer. These things
cancause (without any warning) serious bleeding ulcers. I know two
people who puked up half their blood volume, with no prior stomach
symptoms.

2) If you're going to take Acetominphen (which works better on the
actual nerve pain) regularly, you should also take n-acetylcysteine -
an antioxidant which, among other things, protects your liver from the
acetominophen. It's what they give (in LARGE dosages) in the ER for
Tylenol overdose. You can find it at healf food stores or, as I did,
at the supermarket drug aisle.

2.5) You CAN take Ibuprofen and Acetominophen together. It's usually
recommended that you alternate the two, two hours apart.

3) You've received a lot of good advice here, and suprisingly, most of
it is consistent (with a few variations). But you need to realize that
NONE of us are doctors, none of us has examined your back (hell, few
of us have even met you). If you're not getting significant relief in
a few days, you really ought to see someone to help get this sorted
out.

On 2011-04-20, Jon Elson wrote:
On 04/17/2011 07:35 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:


Sitting can agravate some kinds of back problems, and the pain can be
there or lower (like in the legs or hips).

YEAH! When I screwed up my back some years ago, I had a Toyota Corolla.
Normally, the seat didn't bother me any, but when my back was in bad
shape, that seat could leave me practically crippled after driving
to/from work. I rolled up a jacket and set it in the angle between
seat- and back-part of the car seat, and it helped immensely. It just
changed the tilt of my pelvis when sitting there, and made a big difference.

Anyway, I hope Iggy's back is starting to clear up, it was NO FUN when I
had that problem. I just lived with it, and it got essentially
completely better, but I have to watch out to not overstress whatever it
is there that is now a weak spot.

Jon

Jon, thanks, it is much better today, it is the first day when I do
not have major discomfort.

i

On 04/17/2011 07:35 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:


Sitting can agravate some kinds of back problems, and the pain can be
there or lower (like in the legs or hips).

YEAH! When I screwed up my back some years ago, I had a Toyota Corolla.
Normally, the seat didn't bother me any, but when my back was in bad
shape, that seat could leave me practically crippled after driving
to/from work. I rolled up a jacket and set it in the angle between
seat- and back-part of the car seat, and it helped immensely. It just
changed the tilt of my pelvis when sitting there, and made a big difference.

Anyway, I hope Iggy's back is starting to clear up, it was NO FUN when I
had that problem. I just lived with it, and it got essentially
completely better, but I have to watch out to not overstress whatever it
is there that is now a weak spot.

Jon

Look like no major disk damage then. They can take months to years to get
relief.

All the best with it!
-----------------

"Ignoramus29323" wrote in message
...
Jon, thanks, it is much better today, it is the first day when I do
not have major discomfort.

i

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 17:34:44 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

On 04/17/2011 07:35 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:


Sitting can agravate some kinds of back problems, and the pain can be
there or lower (like in the legs or hips).

YEAH! When I screwed up my back some years ago, I had a Toyota Corolla.
Normally, the seat didn't bother me any, but when my back was in bad
shape, that seat could leave me practically crippled after driving
to/from work. I rolled up a jacket and set it in the angle between
seat- and back-part of the car seat, and it helped immensely. It just
changed the tilt of my pelvis when sitting there, and made a big difference.

Anyway, I hope Iggy's back is starting to clear up, it was NO FUN when I
had that problem. I just lived with it, and it got essentially
completely better, but I have to watch out to not overstress whatever it
is there that is now a weak spot.

I HOPE he went to see a chiro. Most back problems don't just clear up
on their own.

--
Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air...
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 19:16:51 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 17:34:44 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

On 04/17/2011 07:35 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:


Sitting can agravate some kinds of back problems, and the pain can be
there or lower (like in the legs or hips).

YEAH! When I screwed up my back some years ago, I had a Toyota Corolla.
Normally, the seat didn't bother me any, but when my back was in bad
shape, that seat could leave me practically crippled after driving
to/from work. I rolled up a jacket and set it in the angle between
seat- and back-part of the car seat, and it helped immensely. It just
changed the tilt of my pelvis when sitting there, and made a big difference.

Anyway, I hope Iggy's back is starting to clear up, it was NO FUN when I
had that problem. I just lived with it, and it got essentially
completely better, but I have to watch out to not overstress whatever it
is there that is now a weak spot.

I HOPE he went to see a chiro. Most back problems don't just clear up
on their own.
Actually, many do. With rest, anti-inflamitories, and heat.
Depends what's wrong, and how bad.

Larry Jaques wrote:

I HOPE he went to see a chiro. Most back problems don't just clear up
on their own.

Mine always have, but they've only been muscle strains and fatigue, which
clear up with rest, a soak in the hot tub, and some kind of balm like
Icy-hot or Ben-gay.

But I've never abused my back badly enough to slip a disk. =:-O

Good Luck!
Rich

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 23:49:40 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 19:16:51 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 17:34:44 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

On 04/17/2011 07:35 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:


Sitting can agravate some kinds of back problems, and the pain can be
there or lower (like in the legs or hips).

YEAH! When I screwed up my back some years ago, I had a Toyota Corolla.
Normally, the seat didn't bother me any, but when my back was in bad
shape, that seat could leave me practically crippled after driving
to/from work. I rolled up a jacket and set it in the angle between
seat- and back-part of the car seat, and it helped immensely. It just
changed the tilt of my pelvis when sitting there, and made a big difference.

Anyway, I hope Iggy's back is starting to clear up, it was NO FUN when I
had that problem. I just lived with it, and it got essentially
completely better, but I have to watch out to not overstress whatever it
is there that is now a weak spot.

I HOPE he went to see a chiro. Most back problems don't just clear up
on their own.
Actually, many do. With rest, anti-inflamitories, and heat.
Depends what's wrong, and how bad.

Those which do are usually minor muscle sprains and/or spasms.
Vertebrae can also pop back into alignment on their own, but that
happens much, much less often.

I had three orthopedic surgeons give me varying diagnoses on my
throacic problem. One wanted to operate (foraminal laminectomy) on
the wrong side, one wanted to fuse bone, and the last offered me a
burnout. Dr. Obenchain was the most noted surgeon in San Diego County
at the time and I was happy to be handed to him. His suggested method
was lauded in Germany, where it originated. Unfortunately, he had
never tried it, so I'd be his guinea pig. He was honest about it and
also gave me his best estimate of my outcome: I had a 50/50 chance of
getting either worse or better, but no chance of remaining the same.
The process was guiding a nice little RF probe down into my spinal
area and blasting it with energy.

Imagine, my very own internal microwave, cooking out nerve fiber for a
few milliseconds. Eek! I thought about it and asked him "If it
works, what happens when I attempt to turn too far and don't feel it?
Couldn't some of my muscles overcome others and I tweak the spine too
far and end up a paraplegic? He agreed that was a possibility,
however slim. I finally told him "Thanks, but no thanks."

A few years later, the pain was considerably better (the katana
stabbing into my shoulder and down into my back had turned to a mere
hatpin), though I had given myself tinnitus from overuse of aspirin.
Having just sobered up, I stayed away from prescription pain meds,
sticking with aspirin. I finally found other NSAIDS, then ibuprofen,
and I take it to this day. (Costco has 2 bottles of 500 bupes each
paired for $9, so I keep Kirkland Pharmaceutical in business.) The
chronic pain is much diminished from what it was, but time and care
have given me a life back. Lying around for a year was agonizing, both
from the pain and boredom.

Tossing around a sheet of 3/4" plywood earlier this week has left me
worse for wear, but I'll get over it. When something goes out and my
narrow bathroom door jamb (or legovers) can't put it right, I go to
the chiro. That's only once or twice a year now, thankfully.

Having gone through all that and having talked to metric gazillions of
back pain sufferers in the past 26 years, I still say that _most_ back
pain doesn't go away by itself, and that which does is usually just
from overwork.

--
Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air...
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

I don't wish one on you or anybody else.
I spent almost every alive moment for 2 and a half year on my back with my
feet in the air debating whether the right to bear arms would be a good
thing.

Ben-Gay and all those chemical skins irritants are really good for your
mind. It takes real cold from an ice pack to reduce swelling.

-----------------

"Rich Grise" wrote in message ...
Mine always have, but they've only been muscle strains and fatigue, which
clear up with rest, a soak in the hot tub, and some kind of balm like
Icy-hot or Ben-gay.

But I've never abused my back badly enough to slip a disk. =:-O

Good Luck!
Rich

Andrew VK3BFA wrote:

On Apr 19, 1:21 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Andrew VK3BFA wrote:




Typical, you snipped everything when you reply.



So? - you did stupid things, like the rest of us. Eventually,
something broke, and we had to stop. And carry the now painful
consequences. .How long did you do this for? - how many years? -


My back is fine. It was diabetes and other problems that sidelined
me. The pain I have is Diabetic neuropathy in my hands which has
nothing to do with lifting and moving heavy things for decades. I can
still lift and move heavy things, but I tire faster than I did 40+ years
ago. The diabetes causes my blood sugar leves to be unstable, wich can
drop like a rock and make me very dizzy. I've had it drop from 224 to
79 in les than two hours.



You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Yep, true.


Keep making a fool of yourself, we're all used to it.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 19:16:51 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 17:34:44 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

On 04/17/2011 07:35 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:


Sitting can agravate some kinds of back problems, and the pain can be
there or lower (like in the legs or hips).

YEAH! When I screwed up my back some years ago, I had a Toyota Corolla.
Normally, the seat didn't bother me any, but when my back was in bad
shape, that seat could leave me practically crippled after driving
to/from work. I rolled up a jacket and set it in the angle between
seat- and back-part of the car seat, and it helped immensely. It just
changed the tilt of my pelvis when sitting there, and made a big difference.

Anyway, I hope Iggy's back is starting to clear up, it was NO FUN when I
had that problem. I just lived with it, and it got essentially
completely better, but I have to watch out to not overstress whatever it
is there that is now a weak spot.

I HOPE he went to see a chiro. Most back problems don't just clear up
on their own.


I think he did the right thing by coming to this group first for his
medical advise.

Anybody got a Canadian equivalent of those sugar readings? Ou scales go from
about 4.0 to 20-30.


Funny the Canucks always use different scales for all medical reading than
the US does.

Must have something to do with the weird gallon they use...LOL

------------

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
My back is fine. It was diabetes and other problems that sidelined
me. The pain I have is Diabetic neuropathy in my hands which has
nothing to do with lifting and moving heavy things for decades. I can
still lift and move heavy things, but I tire faster than I did 40+ years
ago. The diabetes causes my blood sugar leves to be unstable, wich can
drop like a rock and make me very dizzy. I've had it drop from 224 to
79 in les than two hours.

After seeing chem/cut doctors occasionally for the last 50 or so years, I
agree. Most of us know more about it then any GP unless they went through it
once.

I see my car mechanic for nutritional advice. They have more classroom
instruction than GP Doctors do.

-----------------
"Liz Pendens" wrote in message
...
I think he did the right thing by coming to this group first for his
medical advise.

On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:43:09 -0400, "Josepi"
wrote:

Anybody got a Canadian equivalent of those sugar readings? Ou scales go from
about 4.0 to 20-30.


Funny the Canucks always use different scales for all medical reading than
the US does.

Must have something to do with the weird gallon they use...LOL


It's the Yanks that use strange numbers. When the rest of the world
still used gallons, it was only the USA that used the "short" gallon -
and now that the rest of the world has gone metric, it is basically
ONLY the US that is holding out using their "weird" measurement
system.

The USA uses mg/dl, the rest of the world uses mmol - and to convert
mg/dl to mmol you devide by 18. To convert mmol to mg/dl you multiply
by 18

mmol is milimole per liter.
mg/dl is .01 grams per liter.

Approx .18 grams/mmol

------------

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
My back is fine. It was diabetes and other problems that sidelined
me. The pain I have is Diabetic neuropathy in my hands which has
nothing to do with lifting and moving heavy things for decades. I can
still lift and move heavy things, but I tire faster than I did 40+ years
ago. The diabetes causes my blood sugar leves to be unstable, wich can
drop like a rock and make me very dizzy. I've had it drop from 224 to
79 in les than two hours.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:43:09 -0400, "Josepi"
wrote:

Anybody got a Canadian equivalent of those sugar readings? Ou scales go
from
about 4.0 to 20-30.


Funny the Canucks always use different scales for all medical reading than
the US does.

Must have something to do with the weird gallon they use...LOL


It's the Yanks that use strange numbers. When the rest of the world
still used gallons, it was only the USA that used the "short" gallon -
and now that the rest of the world has gone metric, it is basically
ONLY the US that is holding out using their "weird" measurement
system.

Why would it matter?


The USA uses mg/dl, the rest of the world uses mmol - and to convert
mg/dl to mmol you devide by 18. To convert mmol to mg/dl you multiply
by 18

mmol is milimole per liter.
mg/dl is .01 grams per liter.

Approx .18 grams/mmol

Most of the research on both blood diseases and diabetes was done in the US,
and the system of measurement we use for blood glucose concentration is
indeed metric -- mg/dl.

What we tend to avoid for consumer use is SI units -- in this case,
millimoles per liter. Most countries around the world have one or more
objections to SI, so you're unlikely to find a "pure" SI system anywhere. In
Canada, the Porsche Cayman R is advertised as having an engine that produces
330 horsepower, not 246 kilowatts. The Audi S6 sold in Canada is advertised
as producing 398 lb-ft of torque at 3000 rpm, not 540 Newton-meters.

WHO is it that has the mixed system? g

--
Ed Huntress

On 4/20/2011 4:32 PM, Ignoramus29323 wrote:
On 2011-04-20, Jon wrote:
On 04/17/2011 07:35 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:


Sitting can agravate some kinds of back problems, and the pain can be
there or lower (like in the legs or hips).

YEAH! When I screwed up my back some years ago, I had a Toyota Corolla.
Normally, the seat didn't bother me any, but when my back was in bad
shape, that seat could leave me practically crippled after driving
to/from work. I rolled up a jacket and set it in the angle between
seat- and back-part of the car seat, and it helped immensely. It just
changed the tilt of my pelvis when sitting there, and made a big difference.

Anyway, I hope Iggy's back is starting to clear up, it was NO FUN when I
had that problem. I just lived with it, and it got essentially
completely better, but I have to watch out to not overstress whatever it
is there that is now a weak spot.

Jon

Jon, thanks, it is much better today, it is the first day when I do
not have major discomfort.

i

Glad you are feeling better but I must ask, did you follow advice given
here and go to a chiropractor or acupuncturist??

The point I'm getting at here is that chiropractic and acupuncture are
quackery and, if you had gone to either, you may have concluded that the
improvement you are seeing now was a result rather than the natural
course of events now that you have 1)removed yourself from the original
cause of the pain, and 2) waited a while for the swelling to subside
naturally.

Quacks make great use of the fact that most (90%?)illnesses and disease
will resolve itself given removal of the original cause and passage of
time. Anyhow, the taking of an anti-inflammatory, in moderation, can be
helpful in speeding the recovery process but, if the condition returns,
even with moderate load on the back, I would go to an actual doctor i.e
a physician for further treatment as required. He may refer you to a
physiotherapist or prescribe other medications but at least you will
have confidence that scientific medicine is being utilized rather than
snake oil.

PS, I know what it's like and I advise anyone who cares to listen to
take care of your back because if you abuse it (or even if you don't),
back problems can be a lifetime sentence.

Laurie Forbes

On 4/21/2011 5:49 PM, Liz Pendens wrote:
On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 19:16:51 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 17:34:44 -0500, Jon
wrote:

On 04/17/2011 07:35 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:


Sitting can agravate some kinds of back problems, and the pain can be
there or lower (like in the legs or hips).

YEAH! When I screwed up my back some years ago, I had a Toyota Corolla.
Normally, the seat didn't bother me any, but when my back was in bad
shape, that seat could leave me practically crippled after driving
to/from work. I rolled up a jacket and set it in the angle between
seat- and back-part of the car seat, and it helped immensely. It just
changed the tilt of my pelvis when sitting there, and made a big difference.

Anyway, I hope Iggy's back is starting to clear up, it was NO FUN when I
had that problem. I just lived with it, and it got essentially
completely better, but I have to watch out to not overstress whatever it
is there that is now a weak spot.

I HOPE he went to see a chiro. Most back problems don't just clear up
on their own.


I think he did the right thing by coming to this group first for his
medical advise.

Friends and neighbours always know best....

Laurie Forbes

On 2011-04-22, Laurie Forbes wrote:
On 4/20/2011 4:32 PM, Ignoramus29323 wrote:
On 2011-04-20, Jon wrote:
On 04/17/2011 07:35 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:


Sitting can agravate some kinds of back problems, and the pain can be
there or lower (like in the legs or hips).

YEAH! When I screwed up my back some years ago, I had a Toyota Corolla.
Normally, the seat didn't bother me any, but when my back was in bad
shape, that seat could leave me practically crippled after driving
to/from work. I rolled up a jacket and set it in the angle between
seat- and back-part of the car seat, and it helped immensely. It just
changed the tilt of my pelvis when sitting there, and made a big difference.

Anyway, I hope Iggy's back is starting to clear up, it was NO FUN when I
had that problem. I just lived with it, and it got essentially
completely better, but I have to watch out to not overstress whatever it
is there that is now a weak spot.

Jon

Jon, thanks, it is much better today, it is the first day when I do
not have major discomfort.

i

Glad you are feeling better but I must ask, did you follow advice given
here and go to a chiropractor or acupuncturist??

I did not.

The point I'm getting at here is that chiropractic and acupuncture are
quackery and, if you had gone to either, you may have concluded that the
improvement you are seeing now was a result rather than the natural
course of events now that you have 1)removed yourself from the original
cause of the pain, and 2) waited a while for the swelling to subside
naturally.

I agree.

Quacks make great use of the fact that most (90%?)illnesses and disease
will resolve itself given removal of the original cause and passage of
time. Anyhow, the taking of an anti-inflammatory, in moderation, can be
helpful in speeding the recovery process but, if the condition returns,
even with moderate load on the back, I would go to an actual doctor i.e
a physician for further treatment as required. He may refer you to a
physiotherapist or prescribe other medications but at least you will
have confidence that scientific medicine is being utilized rather than
snake oil.

PS, I know what it's like and I advise anyone who cares to listen to
take care of your back because if you abuse it (or even if you don't),
back problems can be a lifetime sentence.

I think that what I have no is periods of no exercise, followed by
lifting something extremely heavy for me, like an engine or a big
whatever.

This is not healthy.

I should exercise regularly so that my back muscles are strongly and
the back is better supported.

i

"Ignoramus30510" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-22, Laurie Forbes wrote:
On 4/20/2011 4:32 PM, Ignoramus29323 wrote:
On 2011-04-20, Jon wrote:
On 04/17/2011 07:35 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:


Sitting can agravate some kinds of back problems, and the pain can be
there or lower (like in the legs or hips).

YEAH! When I screwed up my back some years ago, I had a Toyota
Corolla.
Normally, the seat didn't bother me any, but when my back was in bad
shape, that seat could leave me practically crippled after driving
to/from work. I rolled up a jacket and set it in the angle between
seat- and back-part of the car seat, and it helped immensely. It just
changed the tilt of my pelvis when sitting there, and made a big
difference.

Anyway, I hope Iggy's back is starting to clear up, it was NO FUN when
I
had that problem. I just lived with it, and it got essentially
completely better, but I have to watch out to not overstress whatever
it
is there that is now a weak spot.

Jon

Jon, thanks, it is much better today, it is the first day when I do
not have major discomfort.

i

Glad you are feeling better but I must ask, did you follow advice given
here and go to a chiropractor or acupuncturist??

I did not.

The point I'm getting at here is that chiropractic and acupuncture are
quackery and, if you had gone to either, you may have concluded that the
improvement you are seeing now was a result rather than the natural
course of events now that you have 1)removed yourself from the original
cause of the pain, and 2) waited a while for the swelling to subside
naturally.

I agree.

Quacks make great use of the fact that most (90%?)illnesses and disease
will resolve itself given removal of the original cause and passage of
time. Anyhow, the taking of an anti-inflammatory, in moderation, can be
helpful in speeding the recovery process but, if the condition returns,
even with moderate load on the back, I would go to an actual doctor i.e
a physician for further treatment as required. He may refer you to a
physiotherapist or prescribe other medications but at least you will
have confidence that scientific medicine is being utilized rather than
snake oil.

PS, I know what it's like and I advise anyone who cares to listen to
take care of your back because if you abuse it (or even if you don't),
back problems can be a lifetime sentence.

I think that what I have no is periods of no exercise, followed by
lifting something extremely heavy for me, like an engine or a big
whatever.

This is not healthy.

I should exercise regularly so that my back muscles are strongly and
the back is better supported.

i


Check out Stuart McGill:

http://www.backfitpro.com/

http://www.backfitpro.com/articles.php

ooooops. My bad. I didn't notice the deci...

Thanx Ed.

---------------------
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ...
This is an excellent example of a central weakness in the metric system. One
slip of the decimal point and it is NOT obvious that an error has been made.

A concentration of 1 mg/deciliter = 10 mg (or 0.01 g) per liter. Medical
journals in the US usually use both mmol/L and mg/dl.

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 20:10:45 -0500, Ignoramus30510
wrote:

On 2011-04-22, Laurie Forbes wrote:
On 4/20/2011 4:32 PM, Ignoramus29323 wrote:
On 2011-04-20, Jon wrote:
On 04/17/2011 07:35 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:


Sitting can agravate some kinds of back problems, and the pain can be
there or lower (like in the legs or hips).

YEAH! When I screwed up my back some years ago, I had a Toyota Corolla.
Normally, the seat didn't bother me any, but when my back was in bad
shape, that seat could leave me practically crippled after driving
to/from work. I rolled up a jacket and set it in the angle between
seat- and back-part of the car seat, and it helped immensely. It just
changed the tilt of my pelvis when sitting there, and made a big difference.

Anyway, I hope Iggy's back is starting to clear up, it was NO FUN when I
had that problem. I just lived with it, and it got essentially
completely better, but I have to watch out to not overstress whatever it
is there that is now a weak spot.

Jon

Jon, thanks, it is much better today, it is the first day when I do
not have major discomfort.

i

Glad you are feeling better but I must ask, did you follow advice given
here and go to a chiropractor or acupuncturist??

I did not.

And perhaps you suffered longer as a result.


The point I'm getting at here is that chiropractic and acupuncture are
quackery and, if you had gone to either, you may have concluded that the
improvement you are seeing now was a result rather than the natural
course of events now that you have 1)removed yourself from the original
cause of the pain, and 2) waited a while for the swelling to subside
naturally.

I agree.

My body is living proof that some people need chiropractic help. My
scoliosis decided that my frame should not remain intact for a full
year at a time. Various vertebrae go out (subluxate, rotate) and put
me in instant pain. Chiro puts them back and I find instant relief.

If you guys want to ignore a perfectly sound method for immediate
reduction of pain, fine. It's your life. But chiropractic is
absolutely NOT quackery, though there are some quacks practcicing it,
as there are in other medical and sales fields.


I think that what I have no is periods of no exercise, followed by
lifting something extremely heavy for me, like an engine or a big
whatever.

This is not healthy.

I should exercise regularly so that my back muscles are strongly and
the back is better supported.

Yes, absolutely. And the least excercised muscles which contribute to
(lower) back pain are the _stomach_ muscles.

--
Accept the pain, cherish the joys, resolve the regrets;
then can come the best of benedictions -
'If I had my life to live over, I'd do it all the same.'
-- Joan McIntosh

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 02:29:05 -0700 (PDT), Andrew VK3BFA
wrote:

On Apr 19, 3:06*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 07:43:03 -0700 (PDT), Andrew VK3BFA

OK, I will regret this, but

Its Gunner being the mad rabbit in the field again, Jumping up and
Down, yelling "shoot at me, shoot at me..." - and there's a kid with a
22 walking past......I mean, really, what can you do?

Son...Ive had (2) back surgeries...because I was a dumb "Real Tradesmen,
heavy lifting all your working life"...THINK SO!!

Twice, eh - what happened, you didn't see any significance in the
first one? - surprised "my time in the Jungle" hasn't crept in here
already.

If you backs that stuffed, whats with all the postings of you and
heavy machinery? - bit sus mate.

I learned after the 2nd one. Im a slow learner..but I do learn.

As have most of the other readers here that have had back problems.

Nope, only some of them (and apologies to them) - most people only
ever suffer paper cuts, - good luck to them too. Most older tradesmen
are carrying some sort of long term injury. At trade school, young
guy, tried to stop a forklift with his boot cap - dint work, hes got a
permanent injury now. Starting young, hes about 18 I think.

Yes...and?

I really wonder, each time I read your posts..are you actually this
****ing arrogant, or simply going into the initial stages of mental
illness.

Dont mean to be arrogant - but in the face of such obdurate idiocy,
what choice do I have.? Mental illness - have to agree to that one -
cant resist obvious targets, its definitely a mental health condition.

I had my first back surgery in 1983 and when I went in to get the
staples and stitches taken out..the doctor noticed my leathers and
motorcycle helmet sitting next to me in the exam room. He
froze...paused...blinked..and asked if I actually lived 45 miles away
from the hospital..and when I said "yah..what about it"...the old boy
reamed me a new asshole for riding a motorcycle 9 days after my back
surgery. He told me he would indeed see me again.

And..unfortunately...8 yrs later..he did.

OK, lets rave about motorcycles for a while. Happy to do it. You ever
gunna (good name, there) going to actually DO anything with that Honda
350 you got - sell some scrap metal, buy the bits, get the head done
for new cam carriers etc - get into it you slacker.

When I get some spare cash. The BMW is first, the Indian comes
second..and then the dirt bike.

Im working 3-4 days a week in So. California..and working around the
homestead the rest of the time, trying to catch up on all the stuff I
didnt do over the past 2+ yrs since the heart surgery and stroke.

Im making just enough to cover my bills..mostly..and that leaves very
very little to play with.

THEN I learned. *And Ive not had problems again..other than the long
term problems that came with the 2 surgeries. *And I deal with those day
by day.

The bike died, right? You got older, right?

No..I sold the Honda Shadow and got the BMW. Its much better for my
back.


So dont be blowing off your arrogance and buffoonery. You wear it like a
cheap suit. *And frankly old boy..it doesnt look good on *you.

Your right - I look totally stupid in a suit, I think you gotta be
born on the right side of the tracks to wear one. I got one, weddings
and funerals. Next time I wear it, will be my funeral I guess.
Arrogance and buffoonery - is this some sort of a competition? - is
someone running a book on it?

Im surprised all the other Dumb Tradesment here...didnt bother stuffing
you up your own ass.

No mate, thats only in your peculiar, isolated la la land. They were/
are just people, like everyone else - some good, some bad. All proud
to be Union. The dignity of Labour. Get annoyed by little pricks
talking out of their depth a bit, mostly dont arc up.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:45:49 -0400, "Josepi"
wrote:

After seeing chem/cut doctors occasionally for the last 50 or so years, I
agree. Most of us know more about it then any GP unless they went through it
once.

My neurosurgeon went in for his very first personal backsurgery..the day
after he performed my second one.

We met for the first time about 2 weeks after our surgeries..both of us
moving slow.

He gently sat down and looked at me..and told me he had been a back
doctor for 15 yrs, plus 10 as a military back doctor..and for all that
time..he had a half notion that we were all a bit of a pussy over the
"discomfort"

He blinked..put his head down..and admitted..."discomfort hell..the
mother ****er HURTS!!!" and started to cry.

There I was..standing next to him in the exam room..hand on his
shoulder,...talking to him and telling him how to make it hurt less and
it is survivable...though at the first..it seems like it wont be.

We remained friends for many years after that.

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

On Sat, 23 Apr 2011 02:00:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:45:49 -0400, "Josepi"
wrote:
--snip--

Please add a filter.

--
Accept the pain, cherish the joys, resolve the regrets;
then can come the best of benedictions -
'If I had my life to live over, I'd do it all the same.'
-- Joan McIntosh

You seem to be very political aware so you probably already know where most
of Canada is at.

Our system is about the same as the US except we pushed out metric a little
harder for a while. There was a case of a gas station owner selling in
"Imperial gallons" and he was taken to court over it, where the judge said
something like "I don't care what you sell it in as long as it is defined"
and that was the end of forcing metric down our throats....too bad in some
repstecs but until we get the bog bad wolf US to convert we are in a mixed
bag for most users.

I always say the wood industry won't convert until the sheet of ply wood
starts to go metric sizes. You can't space sruds at some metric size when
sheet goods are still 4x8'. 2x4s.. who cares if they are 184 x 235mm or
whatever? As long as the delivery truck sends all the same sizes...LOL

You guys (the US) seem to get screwed by the French every time. Reading the
history the French like to devise standards, you guys jump in and then they
change it all and the rest of the world seems to follow on another standard.
The same thing happened on the short and long scale counting systems but it
always appears to be the French devised systems. They must be obsessed with
the length of their dicks and constantly need a new measurement system...LOL

You can tell the extent of your leadership prowess by the number of peoples
that are ****ed off at you. Better you than us!

Have a good one!
------------------
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ...
I think you'll find that most countries, not just Canada (or the US) do not
use the SI system universally, even though they use the metric system.
France may be an exception, but then, they usually are. d8-)

The whole metric issue in the US is not well understood by people from other
countries. Most of our big-time manufacturing is fully metric. The small
shop owners here who do contract jobbing will tell you that they are working
in metric as much as in inch (we don't call it "Imperial," because it's
really not), or, if they serve the automotive, medical, or aerospace
industries, they are almost exclusively metric. This has been true for
decades.

There are two reasons for using metrics. One is the ease of working with
formulas that involve multiple units -- force, distance, mass, etc. That's
of more importance in science and engineering research, where we are fully
metricized. The other reason is cross-border compatability. In those cases,
where it matters, we use metrics. But it usually doesn't matter. If you were
buying an American toaster (if we still made toasters) in Italy, you
wouldn't care much if the screws in it were metric or inch. But we'd
probably be using metric fasteners, anyway.

As for using metrics versus inch in a metalworking shop, it doesn't really
matter at all. Most of the units you're using are linear dimensions, and it
hardly matters which base you start with for that. Angles, speeds, etc. are
non-dimensional (degrees) or based on universal units (hours, etc.), so it's
irrelevent for those measurements.

It's a tempest in a teapot. People from other countries are ****ed off at us
because we won't jump on their one-world bandwagon. But they're always
****ed off at us, anyway. d8-)

In my younger days being involved in martial arts for most of my life, then
I always thought the back injuries were a bunch of crybaby crap too.

Then I hurt my back (some newbie threw me wrong) and that developed to
become more complex problems. I remember spending about 2.5 years watching
TV (wondering if I could sleep in this position) on my back with my feet on
a footstool, wondering if committing suicide would be worth it or not.

I don't wish, or make fun of a back problem anymore. Muscle injuries are one
thing but a pinched nerve is something else. I always recommend to people to
do it all...everything I did and it all helps short and long term.
- chiropractor (hard to find a good one. I have gone through 8 of them and
travel 200kM to see the best one now)
- acupuncture always gave me months of relief from crippling sciatica
- inversion. The basis for most of the short term pain relief
- lift weights, and stretch, longer term structural and protection from
further long term damage
- ice packs. Chiropractor told me this repeatedly. It took me about five
years before I listened.
- Lift properly and know back mechanics.

BTW: Brother went through the disc operation and I would never do it myself
for what I have. He never really recovered due to further complications
being a suck and living on steroids and pain meds until he died. I don't
trust most doctors unless I absolutely have to. I have one, now, that is a
world class runner and can actually tell me something I didn't know in
nutrition and other subjects and she is very good looking. Bitch for
physicals though...LOL


Have a good one
----------------
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
My neurosurgeon went in for his very first personal backsurgery..the day
after he performed my second one.

We met for the first time about 2 weeks after our surgeries..both of us
moving slow.

He gently sat down and looked at me..and told me he had been a back
doctor for 15 yrs, plus 10 as a military back doctor..and for all that
time..he had a half notion that we were all a bit of a pussy over the
"discomfort"

He blinked..put his head down..and admitted..."discomfort hell..the
mother ****er HURTS!!!" and started to cry.

There I was..standing next to him in the exam room..hand on his
shoulder,...talking to him and telling him how to make it hurt less and
it is survivable...though at the first..it seems like it wont be.

We remained friends for many years after that.

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)