Most air tool manufacturers recommend having a water filter in the air
line "as close to the tool as possible". E.g. Paslode specify within
10 feet, OTOH Bostich do not mention water filters at all in their FAQ
(I could not download any manuals).

The question is how much water is damaging enough to justify trying to
get an in-line filter close to a tool with all that it entails. Is the
water filter really necessary for limited use as opposed to continuous
use for a whole day?

I was trying to quantify this somewhat and thought the best example
would be nailers (although not necessarily metal-related ). If one
used a brad nailer for the occasional job that entails 200 or so
fasteners at a time would inserting a water filter be justified even
though it is a hassle, added expense and another potentially weak
point in the line?

Is there difference in how the water vapor affects different types of
air tools?

Is there a way of assessing how much water is being conveyed to the
air tool? FWIW I use my compressor with a blow gun 99% of the time.
When I use it to blow dust off finished wood I never see any water
spray, droplets or mist. Draining the tank at the end of the day
yields at most a few drops.

Thanks,

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

In your location, you're not likely to have much trouble. Here in MN,
I have to watch out on humid summer days. Painting is near impossible
then. Nailers, impact wrenches, welder descalers, die grinders, etc
all work with frequent applications of air tool oil to flush the
condensed water gunk.

I'm not sure where you're at in BC. Unless you're on the coast, you'd
never have the high humidity.

Karl

fired this volley in
:

Is there difference in how the water vapor affects different types of
air tools?

Is there a way of assessing how much water is being conveyed to the
air tool? FWIW I use my compressor with a blow gun 99% of the time.
When I use it to blow dust off finished wood I never see any water
spray, droplets or mist. Draining the tank at the end of the day
yields at most a few drops.


I suppose it matters how the cylinders, motor housing, etc. are lined,
and what materials are used.

A coalescing type water filter is a _minimum_ precaution for using any
and all air tools. One should also have an in-line lubricator for most
applications, but it can interfere with some (like painting) so sometimes
it's better to hand-lubricate tools if they'll be used lightly.

The only way you can predict how much water will come out is to 1) know
the RH, and the exact volume and pressure of the air you've used, or 2)
put a filter on it, and measure the water!

I'm in north central Florida. During the spring and summer, I can easily
drain a quart of water from my tank in a day of "ordinary use", which
ammounts to pumping up the 150-gal tank about ten times during the work
day.

I filter and I lubricate, and my air tools last essentially forever in
light, non-commercial use.

LLoyd

A factor: the size of your compressor tank. A pancake compressor's tank
is going to warm up and not condense the water vapor in the tank much
faster than a 80 gal tank. The mass of the steel and the surface area
both affect it.

As others have said: it depends.

Bob

wrote:

Most air tool manufacturers recommend having a water filter in the air
line "as close to the tool as possible". E.g. Paslode specify within
10 feet, OTOH Bostich do not mention water filters at all in their FAQ
(I could not download any manuals).

The question is how much water is damaging enough to justify trying to
get an in-line filter close to a tool with all that it entails. Is the
water filter really necessary for limited use as opposed to continuous
use for a whole day?

For what it's worth, I've never ever seen a water filter at the tool end
of an air hose. I'd think any ordinary water filter/trap would be good
enough, if it's sized for your system. Where I sit now is about a 5,000
SF fab shop; on one side there's machining, where they take big pieces
of metal and cut them up into little pieces of metal, and on the other
side there's welding, where they take little pieces of metal and stick
them together to make big pieces of metal. ;-)

I'm the detail draftsman/sweeper. ;-)

They use a lot of air; there are two industrial strength compressors;
I don't know the spec, but they're about 5 1/2 feet tall.

And they also have an air dryer, which is essentially a heat pump (think
"window air unit" but without the air fans) with a chill trap; presumably
it takes enough water out of the air that they don't even have to drain
the compressor tanks.

But in my not so professional opinion, unless your air tool is getting
stuff wet from its exhaust, just the in-line water trap that came with
the system should be good enough.

What do your tools say about oil? I can see an oiler at the tool end,
because somebody else in the shop would probably prefer clean air.

Cheers!
Rich

Karl Townsend wrote:

In your location, you're not likely to have much trouble. Here in MN,
I have to watch out on humid summer days. Painting is near impossible
then. Nailers, impact wrenches, welder descalers, die grinders, etc
all work with frequent applications of air tool oil to flush the
condensed water gunk.

I'm not sure where you're at in BC. Unless you're on the coast, you'd
never have the high humidity.

It's not the heat, it's the humidity:

http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/...ureIsHumid.gif

Cheers!
Rich

wrote in message
...
Most air tool manufacturers recommend having a water filter in the air
line "as close to the tool as possible". E.g. Paslode specify within
10 feet, OTOH Bostich do not mention water filters at all in their FAQ
(I could not download any manuals).

The question is how much water is damaging enough to justify trying to
get an in-line filter close to a tool with all that it entails. Is the
water filter really necessary for limited use as opposed to continuous
use for a whole day?

I was trying to quantify this somewhat and thought the best example
would be nailers (although not necessarily metal-related ). If one
used a brad nailer for the occasional job that entails 200 or so
fasteners at a time would inserting a water filter be justified even
though it is a hassle, added expense and another potentially weak
point in the line?

Is there difference in how the water vapor affects different types of
air tools?

Is there a way of assessing how much water is being conveyed to the
air tool? FWIW I use my compressor with a blow gun 99% of the time.
When I use it to blow dust off finished wood I never see any water
spray, droplets or mist. Draining the tank at the end of the day
yields at most a few drops.

Thanks,

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

FWIW, I use a little oilless compressor with a water filter about 6' from
the end. Without it, I can't spray oil paint. Also, although it doesn't run
my palm sander very well, when I do run it without the filter I have to take
the cover off and blow the water out before oiling it, unless I run it for a
long time and it gets very warm.

I'm in NJ, where it tends to be humid in the summer months.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 10:19:15 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

wrote:

Most air tool manufacturers recommend having a water filter in the air
line "as close to the tool as possible". E.g. Paslode specify within
10 feet, OTOH Bostich do not mention water filters at all in their FAQ
(I could not download any manuals).

The question is how much water is damaging enough to justify trying to
get an in-line filter close to a tool with all that it entails. Is the
water filter really necessary for limited use as opposed to continuous
use for a whole day?

For what it's worth, I've never ever seen a water filter at the tool end
of an air hose. I'd think any ordinary water filter/trap would be good
enough, if it's sized for your system. Where I sit now is about a 5,000
SF fab shop; on one side there's machining, where they take big pieces
of metal and cut them up into little pieces of metal, and on the other
side there's welding, where they take little pieces of metal and stick
them together to make big pieces of metal. ;-)

I'm the detail draftsman/sweeper. ;-)

They use a lot of air; there are two industrial strength compressors;
I don't know the spec, but they're about 5 1/2 feet tall.

And they also have an air dryer, which is essentially a heat pump (think
"window air unit" but without the air fans) with a chill trap; presumably
it takes enough water out of the air that they don't even have to drain
the compressor tanks.

But in my not so professional opinion, unless your air tool is getting
stuff wet from its exhaust, just the in-line water trap that came with
the system should be good enough.

What do your tools say about oil? I can see an oiler at the tool end,
because somebody else in the shop would probably prefer clean air.

Cheers!
Rich

I install and maintain industrial air compressors as part of my services
in machine shops in California. And I have them at home as well.

Driers should go at the output of the tank before the air gets into the
system and the hoses.

There are a number of ways to do this, from commercial chillers to
simple coils of copper tubing. Its not rocket science and it doesnt
need to cost an arm and a leg.

Gunner, rebuilding a 18 month old 2545 I/R compressor that froze the
ALUMINUM piston rod on the high side to the sleeve bearing and made a
hell of a mess.


--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...

I'm not sure where you're at in BC. Unless you're on the coast, you'd
never have the high humidity.


...LOL..

He's on the north shore of Vancouver Island.

Nice little town, excellent salt water fishing--lots of slugs in the garden
and even a few bald eagles and there.

--

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 13:34:17 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

[...]

FWIW, I use a little oilless compressor with a water filter about 6' from
the end. Without it, I can't spray oil paint. Also, although it doesn't run
my palm sander very well, when I do run it without the filter I have to take
the cover off and blow the water out before oiling it, unless I run it for a
long time and it gets very warm.

I'm in NJ, where it tends to be humid in the summer months.


I would not spray without a filter. I have some disposable filters but
they have a 70 psi limit which makes them unsuitable for nailers.

I do not think putting a filter between the tank and the hose is such
a problem but that is *not* what the manufacturers of air tools
recommend.

I was going to make a 5' extension with a filter, however, the in-line
filter, the hose and the fittings cost more than the nailer! They also
weigh almost twice as much. So I guess it's another suck it and see
situation (or in this case blow).

I am encouraged by your statement that you are not obsessional about
running the sander with a water filter.

As for oiling, both my nailers come with a bottle of oil and
recommendation to put 2 or 3 drops into the intake port before
starting a job.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 13:34:17 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

[...]

FWIW, I use a little oilless compressor with a water filter about 6' from
the end. Without it, I can't spray oil paint. Also, although it doesn't
run
my palm sander very well, when I do run it without the filter I have to
take
the cover off and blow the water out before oiling it, unless I run it for
a
long time and it gets very warm.

I'm in NJ, where it tends to be humid in the summer months.


I would not spray without a filter. I have some disposable filters but
they have a 70 psi limit which makes them unsuitable for nailers.

I do not think putting a filter between the tank and the hose is such
a problem but that is *not* what the manufacturers of air tools
recommend.

I was going to make a 5' extension with a filter, however, the in-line
filter, the hose and the fittings cost more than the nailer! They also
weigh almost twice as much. So I guess it's another suck it and see
situation (or in this case blow).

I am encouraged by your statement that you are not obsessional about
running the sander with a water filter.

Well, I *am* obsessional about opening it up and blowing the water out after
I use it. I'm sure it would quickly be wrecked if I didn't.

I first owned that thing (B&D) when I had a big compressor, and I used it a
lot. My little oilless doesn't allow it to develop any torque; I can use it
only for light finish sanding now.


As for oiling, both my nailers come with a bottle of oil and
recommendation to put 2 or 3 drops into the intake port before
starting a job.

I'd do that for sure.

--
Ed Huntress


Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

fired this volley in
:

I do not think putting a filter between the tank and the hose is such
a problem but that is *not* what the manufacturers of air tools
recommend.


What the hell did you read to get that, Mike?

ALL air tools call for "filtered, dried, and (sometimes) lubricated air".

I have filters (plural) on my compressor. In line, they create a total
line drop of 4psi at 9 SCFM. If you need more air than that, you need a
big scroll rig.

Where DID you come up with that?

LLoyd

It doesn't appear that your limited compressed air consumption really
requires an oil/water separator accessory, but they can contribute to longer
life for air hoses and tools.
I haven't used any of the newer inline disposable cartridge-type filters.

My primary use of oil/water separators was for spraying automotive
refinishing products. These types of separators cause suspended particles
and droplets of oil/moisture to be separated and trapped in the bowl, which
is drained regularly.
Clean air is important for painting when using lubricated piston
compressors, to prevent oil/water contamination of the paint products.
A final oil/water separator and large cartridge filter are typically located
in the paint booth.

The oil/water separators won't cause an airline pressure drop if they are
selected to flow a higher volume of air than the tools demand.. generally,
separators are rated for flow, by the better quality manufacturers.
My separators had 1/2" pipe inlets/outlets, and were rated for much more
flow than my air tools or paint guns would consume.

In properly plumbed commercial/industrial air supply applications, all of
the pipe is sloped back to the air compressor receiver/tank.
As the compressed air cools as it's being distributed, much of the suspended
moisture condenses and drops drops out of the air flow, and is supposed to
drain back into the receiver, where it's easily drained.

If the air is cooled by the time it reaches the (machine or) end user, much
of the moisture has been removed, and a separator is mostly just added
insurance against damage from rust scale, water or eventual accumulated oil
in the pipes.

In many home shop applications which aren't plumbed with pipe, the user is
close to the heated compressed air source.. then as the air passes thru the
air hose laying on a cool concrete floor, the moisture begins dropping out
of the air flow.
Cooling the air will cause moisture to accumulate, and contribute to failure
of air hoses from internal exposure to oil and water.

Having overhead pipe giong to several shop locations is very beneficial in
terms of convenience and tool performance, and the pipe also increases the
air tank's volume.
The down pipes at workstations/outlets should be tapped off of the top side
of the horizontal supply pipe.. and include a shutoff valve, and a length of
drip leg (with a petcock) extending below the tap for a workstation
oil/water separator and pressure regulator.. a lubricator and a high-side
quick connector are optional.
If the hose quick connector is elbowed to point downward, this allows a hose
to just drop down to the floor, preventing excessive strain on the ends of
hoses.

A handy location for an oil/water separator is in a protective cage on a
work cart.. so an air hose can supply the separator nearest the point of
use, then the user generally only needs a short section of hose which can be
stored on the cart.

--
WB
..........


wrote in message
...
Most air tool manufacturers recommend having a water filter in the air
line "as close to the tool as possible". E.g. Paslode specify within
10 feet, OTOH Bostich do not mention water filters at all in their FAQ
(I could not download any manuals).

The question is how much water is damaging enough to justify trying to
get an in-line filter close to a tool with all that it entails. Is the
water filter really necessary for limited use as opposed to continuous
use for a whole day?

I was trying to quantify this somewhat and thought the best example
would be nailers (although not necessarily metal-related ). If one
used a brad nailer for the occasional job that entails 200 or so
fasteners at a time would inserting a water filter be justified even
though it is a hassle, added expense and another potentially weak
point in the line?

Is there difference in how the water vapor affects different types of
air tools?

Is there a way of assessing how much water is being conveyed to the
air tool? FWIW I use my compressor with a blow gun 99% of the time.
When I use it to blow dust off finished wood I never see any water
spray, droplets or mist. Draining the tank at the end of the day
yields at most a few drops.

Thanks,

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

wrote in message
...
Most air tool manufacturers recommend having a water filter in the air
line "as close to the tool as possible". E.g. Paslode specify within
10 feet, OTOH Bostich do not mention water filters at all in their FAQ
(I could not download any manuals).

The question is how much water is damaging enough to justify trying to
get an in-line filter close to a tool with all that it entails. Is the
water filter really necessary for limited use as opposed to continuous
use for a whole day?

I was trying to quantify this somewhat and thought the best example
would be nailers (although not necessarily metal-related ). If one
used a brad nailer for the occasional job that entails 200 or so
fasteners at a time would inserting a water filter be justified even
though it is a hassle, added expense and another potentially weak
point in the line?

Is there difference in how the water vapor affects different types of
air tools?

Is there a way of assessing how much water is being conveyed to the
air tool? FWIW I use my compressor with a blow gun 99% of the time.
When I use it to blow dust off finished wood I never see any water
spray, droplets or mist. Draining the tank at the end of the day
yields at most a few drops.

Thanks,

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

The answer is yes, no, absolutely, maybe, and I don't have a clue.

FOR MY USES, water would just be a hazard by corroding the volume tank on my
compressor, and by possibly rusting or corroding innards of tools.

For plasma arc cutting, it is necessary for the air to be dry, dry, dry, as
water suddenly injected in a plasma stream has a variety of bad effects.

A tiny bit of water injected into an air stream carrying $700 a gallon paint
would not be a good thing, also.

It just depends on what it is you are doing. I intend to put a water filter
or dryer on my shop line, but that would not eliminate the tank corrosion
issue.

So, I guess it just depends on the work you do, the tools used, and the
downsides of a tiny amount of water.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 20:07:07 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

I do not think putting a filter between the tank and the hose is such
a problem but that is *not* what the manufacturers of air tools
recommend.


What the hell did you read to get that, Mike?

ALL air tools call for "filtered, dried, and (sometimes) lubricated air".

I have filters (plural) on my compressor. In line, they create a total
line drop of 4psi at 9 SCFM. If you need more air than that, you need a
big scroll rig.

Where DID you come up with that?


OK, I can see how the original statement can be misinterpreted. The
air tool (nailer) manufacturers' manuals (Paslode, Bynford etc.) do
not object to a filter between the tank and the hose but insist *in
addition* on a water filter close to the air tool (see the original
post). The first one is no problem, the second one is a hassle. Hence
this thread.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

fired this volley in
:

The first one is no problem, the second one is a hassle. Hence
this thread.


Yeah... the little "piggyback" filters are a pain, and you can't haul one
around with the tool that's big enough to handle the volume. Still, I
kind of like one within five or six feet of my gun when I am spraying
lacquers G.

But unless you have really COLD weather and lousy de-watering at the head
end of the line, the amount of water you're going to get out the end of a
service hose is minimal.

LLoyd

On Apr 17, 7:21*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 20:07:07 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"





lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
fired this volley in
:

I do not think putting a filter between the tank and the hose is such
a problem but that is *not* what the manufacturers of air tools
recommend.

What the hell did you read to get that, Mike?

ALL air tools call for "filtered, dried, and (sometimes) lubricated air"..

I have filters (plural) on my compressor. *In line, they create a total
line drop of 4psi at 9 SCFM. *If you need more air than that, you need a
big scroll rig.

Where DID you come up with that?

OK, I can see how the original statement can be misinterpreted. The
air tool (nailer) manufacturers' manuals (Paslode, Bynford etc.) do
not object to a filter between the tank and the hose but insist *in
addition* on a water filter close to the air tool (see the original
post). The first one is no problem, the second one is a hassle. Hence
this thread.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you're on a roof with a long hose, you could probably get enough
pressure/temperature drop to get some condensation, even with a water
trap on the compressor. The traps only get the droplets, not vapor.
If you add a dessicant drier unit, like paint shops use, then you can
get the vapor, too, but not really needed for air tools. Usually it's
dry enough here that I blow out dust when I trip the tank drain
stopcock, but it has been humid enough that at times that I get water
out of a DA exhaust. I have a trap on the compressor, didn't have
more than a couple of drops when the DA was dripping. As far as a
hassle, I usually run short whips on the tools, a trap and oiler in-
line with a male and female quick-connect doesn't take up that much
room and don't really affect handling of the tools. They don't have
to be plugged directly into the tools' handles, after all.

Stan