Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for $0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and long
term.

Oops, EMT

Tom Gardner wrote:
Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for$0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and long
term.




The price of the emt comes to more than five cents a piece.
A 10 ft piece is going to run over a dollar.

John

"John" wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:
Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for$0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and
long
term.




The price of the emt comes to more than five cents a piece.
A 10 ft piece is going to run over a dollar.

John


I figured Fifty Cents, not five cents, sorry I wasn't clear.

Tom Gardner wrote:

Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for $0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and long
term.

Well, be sure to get a firm commitment to get paid, whether Prince Castle
sells any of those silly things or not! ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

Tom Gardner wrote:
"John" wrote in message
Tom Gardner wrote:
Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for$0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and
long
term.

The price of the emt comes to more than five cents a piece.
A 10 ft piece is going to run over a dollar.

I figured Fifty Cents, not five cents, sorry I wasn't clear.

I thought at first it was a nickel as well, but $0.5 is, in fact,
fifty cents. (the confusion was not writing it as .50.) But at 4K/mo,
you should be able to get a pretty good price on bulk EMT - just
don't order it from McMaster-Carr! ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Mar 23, 10:38*pm, "Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:
Here's a link to the part I need to make.http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. *But, I have to make this for $0.5 to start. *And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! *Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and long
term.

The heck with that, did you see the butter spreader?

Mmmm, butter.


Dave

"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...
Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

Ok, some comments.

1. Since I work with EMT fairly often I think that its too soft for that
application. It's a scrub brush. I don't know about other people, but I
put some muscle into a scrub brush. Your milage will vary.

2. The bend at the brush is easy and could almost be done over your knee
with 1/2 EMT.

3. The bend at the handle end might have a radius a little small for a
regular old throw it on the floor and put your foot on it manual bender. A
bench top compact bender could handle it just fine.

5. Not sure about the little plastic caps. For a one off for myself I
might turn them out of HDPE round stock, because it would last forever. For
cheap production, not sure.

6. The bends in the pictured handle appear to be drawn and bent. Not
just bent like with a manual bender.

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:

Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for $0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and
long
term.

Well, be sure to get a firm commitment to get paid, whether Prince
Castle
sells any of those silly things or not! ;-)

Cheers!
Rich


Prince Castle is supplied by another manufacturer that gets brushes
from Osborn in Mexico. My customer is going after different markets.
Lots of room in the market, it won't be terribly cut-throat and, I
make a lot of stuff for that market.

"Dave__67" wrote in message
...
On Mar 23, 10:38 pm, "Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:
Here's a link to the part I need to
make.http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for $0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and
long
term.

The heck with that, did you see the butter spreader?

Mmmm, butter.


Dave
*******************

Better yet: "Mmmm, BACON!"

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...
Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

Ok, some comments.

1. Since I work with EMT fairly often I think that its too soft
for that application. It's a scrub brush. I don't know about other
people, but I put some muscle into a scrub brush. Your milage will
vary.

2. The bend at the brush is easy and could almost be done over
your knee with 1/2 EMT.

3. The bend at the handle end might have a radius a little small
for a regular old throw it on the floor and put your foot on it
manual bender. A bench top compact bender could handle it just
fine.

5. Not sure about the little plastic caps. For a one off for
myself I might turn them out of HDPE round stock, because it would
last forever. For cheap production, not sure.

6. The bends in the pictured handle appear to be drawn and bent.
Not just bent like with a manual bender.


The brushes last about a week in the chain eateries. They can replace
the brush but usually don't.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 22:38:52 -0400, "Tom Gardner" w@w
wrote:

Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for $0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and long
term.

==========
If you want cheap and customizable see
http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/pipe/index.html


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:56:53 -0400, "Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:


"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...
Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

Ok, some comments.

1. Since I work with EMT fairly often I think that its too soft
for that application. It's a scrub brush. I don't know about other
people, but I put some muscle into a scrub brush. Your milage will
vary.

2. The bend at the brush is easy and could almost be done over
your knee with 1/2 EMT.

3. The bend at the handle end might have a radius a little small
for a regular old throw it on the floor and put your foot on it
manual bender. A bench top compact bender could handle it just
fine.

5. Not sure about the little plastic caps. For a one off for
myself I might turn them out of HDPE round stock, because it would
last forever. For cheap production, not sure.

6. The bends in the pictured handle appear to be drawn and bent.
Not just bent like with a manual bender.


The brushes last about a week in the chain eateries. They can replace
the brush but usually don't.

I wonder how much that indicates that the handles bend or break...

--
Make up your mind to act decidedly and take the consequences.
No good is ever done in this world by hesitation.
-- Thomas H. Huxley

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 23:03:40 -0400, John
wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:
Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for$0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and long
term.




The price of the emt comes to more than five cents a piece.
A 10 ft piece is going to run over a dollar.

John
I'm sure there is more suitable material than EMT, and at a better
price, at quantity 4K/month.

After seeing what the finished product would look like I would suggest
making a bender similar in concept to the link George McDuffee provided. I
would have it to use air cylinders to muscle the bend and make both bends at
the same time.

Operation would be to place EMT in bender over one die and under the other,
this bender would be vertical so parts drop freely after the bend is
completed.

So, place EMT in bender, actuate (button or pneumatic valve), bend takes a
couple seconds maybe. Shallow bend is bent down over fixed die, steeper
bend is bent up over another fixed die. When cylinders are retracted, the
end bent upward falls and the shallow bend isn't enough to hang up so it
falls freely in a box of bent handles.

This should be capable of 10 per minute, be cheap and simple to make and
control, not strain or exhaust an operator...

The part that rotate around the die to make the bend could rotate using a
trailer axle stub and hub, tapered roller bearings on the cheap, long life,
heavy duty, grease with boat trailer hub greasers.

Adjustable stops fine adjust the bend angle...

On prepared EMT, the bend operation should be nearly completed in about 8
hour per month, low labor cost. Gotta compete with them Mexicans!

Optional automated EMT cutting, loading, drilling, and assembly.

If this is clear as mud I could sketch up a concept drawing.

RogerN

"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:

Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for $0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and long
term.


That handle doesn't look like it was bent on a standard EMT bender. Look at the pdf
http://www.princecastle.com/docs/CC-CM.PDF

It looks like they have a formed arch in the inner radius to give the handle strength.

Wes

Rich Grise wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:
wrote in message
Tom Gardner wrote:
Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for$0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and
long
term.

The price of the emt comes to more than five cents a piece.
A 10 ft piece is going to run over a dollar.

I figured Fifty Cents, not five cents, sorry I wasn't clear.

I thought at first it was a nickel as well, but $0.5 is, in fact,
fifty cents. (the confusion was not writing it as .50.) But at 4K/mo,
you should be able to get a pretty good price on bulk EMT - just
don't order it from McMaster-Carr! ;-)

Cheers!
Rich



I bet you could find something else besides EMT for less money.

John

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Dave__67" wrote in message
...
On Mar 23, 10:38 pm, "Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:
Here's a link to the part I need to
make.http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for $0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and
long
term.

The heck with that, did you see the butter spreader?

Mmmm, butter.

Better yet: "Mmmm, BACON!"

Yabbut, it's a little hard to put bacon on your corn-on-the-cob. :-)

Cheers!
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Dave__67" wrote in message
...
On Mar 23, 10:38 pm, "Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:
Here's a link to the part I need to
make.http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for $0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and
long
term.

The heck with that, did you see the butter spreader?

Mmmm, butter.

Better yet: "Mmmm, BACON!"

Yabbut, it's a little hard to put bacon on your corn-on-the-cob. :-)

True, however you can roll it in bacon fat...

Tom, no suggestions on the bending but at work we've bought plastic caps and
plugs from www.allianceplastics.com and www.caplugs.com and been happy with
both. I'm sure one or both will have a cheap push in plug that will fit.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 18:58:46 -0400, Wes
wrote:
snip
That handle doesn't look like it was bent on a standard EMT bender. Look at the pdf
http://www.princecastle.com/docs/CC-CM.PDF

It looks like they have a formed arch in the inner radius to give the handle strength.
snip
This is what is generically called "crush" bending.
Generally this allows a smaller radius bend and the material
on the inside of the bend does not have to be compressed as
much, although there may be some increase. I think the
Gingery dies could be modified to do crush bending by
including a rib or ridge on the center of the inside die
[make in three pieces?].

http://www.bendtooling.com/c-d.htm
snip
crush bending — A non-mandrel method of bending in which the
compression of the intrados is controlled by stretching it
over a "crush knob" seated in the cavity of the bend die.
This eliminates the wrinkling or buckling that might occur
if the tube were bend without a mandrel. Commonly used on
non-round tube bends.

crush knob — A raised section of a bend die cavity over
which the intrados is stretch to alleviate the compression,
thus eliminate wrinkling and buckling.
snip

http://www.hinesbending.com/BASICTUBEBENDINGGUIDE.pdf
{see pages 17/18}





-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 18:58:46 -0400, Wes
wrote:
snip
That handle doesn't look like it was bent on a standard EMT bender.
Look at the pdf
http://www.princecastle.com/docs/CC-CM.PDF

It looks like they have a formed arch in the inner radius to give
the handle strength.
snip
This is what is generically called "crush" bending.
Generally this allows a smaller radius bend and the material
on the inside of the bend does not have to be compressed as
much, although there may be some increase. I think the
Gingery dies could be modified to do crush bending by
including a rib or ridge on the center of the inside die
[make in three pieces?].

http://www.bendtooling.com/c-d.htm
snip
crush bending - A non-mandrel method of bending in which the
compression of the intrados is controlled by stretching it
over a "crush knob" seated in the cavity of the bend die.
This eliminates the wrinkling or buckling that might occur
if the tube were bend without a mandrel. Commonly used on
non-round tube bends.

crush knob - A raised section of a bend die cavity over
which the intrados is stretch to alleviate the compression,
thus eliminate wrinkling and buckling.
snip

http://www.hinesbending.com/BASICTUBEBENDINGGUIDE.pdf
{see pages 17/18}





-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

Yep, the sample IS "crush bent". Nice primer!

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 19:07:21 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

crush bending - A non-mandrel method of bending in which the
compression of the intrados is controlled by stretching it
over a "crush knob" seated in the cavity of the bend die.
This eliminates the wrinkling or buckling that might occur
if the tube were bend without a mandrel. Commonly used on
non-round tube bends.

Yeah, that's the style I was suggesting. I didn't know the
terminology.


--
Make up your mind to act decidedly and take the consequences.
No good is ever done in this world by hesitation.
-- Thomas H. Huxley

The sample is crush bent. I'll be collating all the info I've been
gathering and canvass local fabricators. There used to be hundreds of
little shops in Cleveland that could do this, I'll be lucky to find
six.

John wrote:
John wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:
wrote in message
Tom Gardner wrote:
Here's a link to the part I need to make.
http://www.princecastle.com/products...ar_brushes.asp

The first qty. point is 4k/mo., after that, more automation is
justified. But, I have to make this for$0.5 to start. And, the
powers to be said they'd give me a whole week! Oh BOY!

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll post what we finally do short and
long
term.

The price of the emt comes to more than five cents a piece.
A 10 ft piece is going to run over a dollar.

I figured Fifty Cents, not five cents, sorry I wasn't clear.

I thought at first it was a nickel as well, but $0.5 is, in fact,
fifty cents. (the confusion was not writing it as .50.) But at 4K/mo,
you should be able to get a pretty good price on bulk EMT - just
don't order it from McMaster-Carr! ;-)

I bet you could find something else besides EMT for less money.

I wonder if a better handle injection molded that would have a
replaceable brush end would work.

Nah - it'd be much cheaper to just bend some plastic tube, or
extrude the plastic into a jig, but it'd still be quicker to hand-
bend them from conduit - hot plastic needs to be cooled to retain
its form. (Yes, I have experience working at an extruder place.)

Cheers!
Rich

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 19:07:21 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

crush bending - A non-mandrel method of bending in which the
compression of the intrados is controlled by stretching it
over a "crush knob" seated in the cavity of the bend die.
This eliminates the wrinkling or buckling that might occur
if the tube were bend without a mandrel. Commonly used on
non-round tube bends.

Yeah, that's the style I was suggesting. I didn't know the
terminology.

Make up your mind to act decidedly and take the consequences.
No good is ever done in this world by hesitation.

The sample is crush bent. I'll be collating all the info I've been
gathering and canvass local fabricators. There used to be hundreds of
little shops in Cleveland that could do this, I'll be lucky to find
six.

I'd also stick something like a bike handlebar handgrip thing on
the proximal end, and maybe some kind of sleeve down the angled
part of the handle. A bare metal handle, especially at 1/2" diameter,
is just icky.

Cheers!
Rich

"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:

The sample is crush bent. I'll be collating all the info I've been
gathering and canvass local fabricators. There used to be hundreds of
little shops in Cleveland that could do this, I'll be lucky to find
six.

When you find one of the six, make sure you ask what day the auction is.

Wes

On Fri, 25 Mar 2011 01:55:16 -0400, "Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 19:07:21 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

crush bending - A non-mandrel method of bending in which the
compression of the intrados is controlled by stretching it
over a "crush knob" seated in the cavity of the bend die.
This eliminates the wrinkling or buckling that might occur
if the tube were bend without a mandrel. Commonly used on
non-round tube bends.

Yeah, that's the style I was suggesting. I didn't know the
terminology.


The sample is crush bent. I'll be collating all the info I've been
gathering and canvass local fabricators. There used to be hundreds of
little shops in Cleveland that could do this, I'll be lucky to find
six.

Six shops still there, only one of which who can still do crush work,
but they'll want an arm, a leg, and your firstborn? That's how my
luck runs, too.

I'll bet the largest local library sees you researching the
engineering books for crush-bend specs, too, huh?

--
Make up your mind to act decidedly and take the consequences.
No good is ever done in this world by hesitation.
-- Thomas H. Huxley