I would like to know the spindle speed and position, in order to do
rigid tapping.

My spindle can be connected to the pulley straight of through the back
gear.

On top of the head, the pulley shaft is hollow and I can mount
something in there, but then I would have to account for the back gear
and it is slightly messy.

I believe that Jon Elson somehow mounted his encoder to a gear inside,
which seems a little painful.

Does anyone have a good idea?

i

On 12/10/2010 08:51 PM, Ignoramus13683 wrote:


I believe that Jon Elson somehow mounted his encoder to a gear inside,
which seems a little painful.

Does anyone have a good idea?
It seemed much more messy before I did it, now that I have done it it
seems a lot simpler than I thought.

See http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html
for pictures, etc.

This was on a Bridgeport 1J head, the step-pulley version. The
varispeed version has a more complicated arrangement, where I believe
the bull gear moves up and down instead of the pinion. You might still
be able to find a position for the quadrature sensors that picks up the
gear teeth in both positions. But, the index sensor would have to have
a flag that trips the sensor both ways.

Bridgeport didn't make this a drop-in option, that's for sure.

Jon

A releated question...

What is the desired resolution required to support rigid tapping?
How many "ticks" per revolution?

-Wayne

Jon Elson wrote:
On 12/10/2010 08:51 PM, Ignoramus13683 wrote:


I believe that Jon Elson somehow mounted his encoder to a gear inside,
which seems a little painful.

Does anyone have a good idea?
It seemed much more messy before I did it, now that I have done it it
seems a lot simpler than I thought.

See http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html
for pictures, etc.

This was on a Bridgeport 1J head, the step-pulley version. The
varispeed version has a more complicated arrangement, where I believe
the bull gear moves up and down instead of the pinion. You might still
be able to find a position for the quadrature sensors that picks up the
gear teeth in both positions. But, the index sensor would have to have
a flag that trips the sensor both ways.

Bridgeport didn't make this a drop-in option, that's for sure.

Jon

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 22:06:14 -0800, "Wayne C. Gramlich"
wrote:

A releated question...

What is the desired resolution required to support rigid tapping?
How many "ticks" per revolution?

-Wayne


I went with 500 ct, mainly cuase I found an AB unit on eBay cheap. Low
res. is best cause you need to read it at 5000 RPM.

I didn't worry about the backgear thing and put it on top by using an
expanding arrangment to clamp to the hollow spindle bore. Mine was
trick cause I needed the tool changer to still work. Iggy, as you're
not using a tool changer, this would be a piece of cake. I have a prox
sensor on the backgear switch to know which gear.

Jon's method on the spindle itself would be better, far more work to
install.

Karl




Jon Elson wrote:
On 12/10/2010 08:51 PM, Ignoramus13683 wrote:


I believe that Jon Elson somehow mounted his encoder to a gear inside,
which seems a little painful.

Does anyone have a good idea?
It seemed much more messy before I did it, now that I have done it it
seems a lot simpler than I thought.

See http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html
for pictures, etc.

This was on a Bridgeport 1J head, the step-pulley version. The
varispeed version has a more complicated arrangement, where I believe
the bull gear moves up and down instead of the pinion. You might still
be able to find a position for the quadrature sensors that picks up the
gear teeth in both positions. But, the index sensor would have to have
a flag that trips the sensor both ways.

Bridgeport didn't make this a drop-in option, that's for sure.

Jon

On 2010-12-11, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 22:06:14 -0800, "Wayne C. Gramlich"
wrote:

A releated question...

What is the desired resolution required to support rigid tapping?
How many "ticks" per revolution?

-Wayne


I went with 500 ct, mainly cuase I found an AB unit on eBay cheap. Low
res. is best cause you need to read it at 5000 RPM.

I didn't worry about the backgear thing and put it on top by using an
expanding arrangment to clamp to the hollow spindle bore. Mine was
trick cause I needed the tool changer to still work. Iggy, as you're
not using a tool changer, this would be a piece of cake. I have a prox
sensor on the backgear switch to know which gear.

Karl, this is my $64,000 question, what expanding arrangement did you
use?

I spent several hours with what I thought would work well, a rubber
plug with a bolt inside, but it was extremely eccentric.

So I am looking for better accuracy.

i

Jon's method on the spindle itself would be better, far more work to
install.

Karl




Jon Elson wrote:
On 12/10/2010 08:51 PM, Ignoramus13683 wrote:


I believe that Jon Elson somehow mounted his encoder to a gear inside,
which seems a little painful.

Does anyone have a good idea?
It seemed much more messy before I did it, now that I have done it it
seems a lot simpler than I thought.

See http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html
for pictures, etc.

This was on a Bridgeport 1J head, the step-pulley version. The
varispeed version has a more complicated arrangement, where I believe
the bull gear moves up and down instead of the pinion. You might still
be able to find a position for the quadrature sensors that picks up the
gear teeth in both positions. But, the index sensor would have to have
a flag that trips the sensor both ways.

Bridgeport didn't make this a drop-in option, that's for sure.

Jon

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 09:21:33 -0600, Ignoramus23245
wrote:



Karl, this is my $64,000 question, what expanding arrangement did you
use?

I spent several hours with what I thought would work well, a rubber
plug with a bolt inside, but it was extremely eccentric.

So I am looking for better accuracy.


This is what I made for a stop to fit inside my collet closer tube.
http://www.suscom-maine.net/~nsimmon...ColletStop.pdf

The 10-32 screw clamps onto a 1/2" rod, the 1/4-20 expands the 1.100
diameter inside the closer tube. Substitute the encoder shaft and
inside dia of the BP shaft for those dimensions and you should be
good.

--
Ned Simmons

On 2010-12-11, Ignoramus23245 wrote:
On 2010-12-11, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 22:06:14 -0800, "Wayne C. Gramlich"
wrote:

A releated question...

What is the desired resolution required to support rigid tapping?
How many "ticks" per revolution?

-Wayne


I went with 500 ct, mainly cuase I found an AB unit on eBay cheap. Low
res. is best cause you need to read it at 5000 RPM.

I didn't worry about the backgear thing and put it on top by using an
expanding arrangment to clamp to the hollow spindle bore. Mine was
trick cause I needed the tool changer to still work. Iggy, as you're
not using a tool changer, this would be a piece of cake. I have a prox
sensor on the backgear switch to know which gear.

Karl, this is my $64,000 question, what expanding arrangement did you
use?

I spent several hours with what I thought would work well, a rubber
plug with a bolt inside, but it was extremely eccentric.

Not I know why it was eccentric. This is some kind of a translucent
urethane piece from mcmaster that is 1" thick and has a 3/8" hole. I
would insert a 3/8" bolt and tighten it and it would be eccentric.

Turns out that walls of it are not uniform thickness. One side is
thicker than the other.

i


So I am looking for better accuracy.

i

Jon's method on the spindle itself would be better, far more work to
install.

Karl




Jon Elson wrote:
On 12/10/2010 08:51 PM, Ignoramus13683 wrote:


I believe that Jon Elson somehow mounted his encoder to a gear inside,
which seems a little painful.

Does anyone have a good idea?
It seemed much more messy before I did it, now that I have done it it
seems a lot simpler than I thought.

See http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html
for pictures, etc.

This was on a Bridgeport 1J head, the step-pulley version. The
varispeed version has a more complicated arrangement, where I believe
the bull gear moves up and down instead of the pinion. You might still
be able to find a position for the quadrature sensors that picks up the
gear teeth in both positions. But, the index sensor would have to have
a flag that trips the sensor both ways.

Bridgeport didn't make this a drop-in option, that's for sure.

Jon

Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 22:06:14 -0800, "Wayne C. Gramlich"
wrote:

A releated question...

What is the desired resolution required to support rigid tapping?
How many "ticks" per revolution?

-Wayne


I went with 500 ct, mainly cuase I found an AB unit on eBay cheap. Low
res. is best cause you need to read it at 5000 RPM.

I didn't worry about the backgear thing and put it on top by using an
expanding arrangment to clamp to the hollow spindle bore. Mine was
trick cause I needed the tool changer to still work. Iggy, as you're
not using a tool changer, this would be a piece of cake. I have a prox
sensor on the backgear switch to know which gear.

Jon's method on the spindle itself would be better, far more work to
install.

Can EMC2 keep up with 500ct at 5000rpm? I know tapping does not
occur at that speed.

-Wayne

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:44:10 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 09:21:33 -0600, Ignoramus23245
wrote:



Karl, this is my $64,000 question, what expanding arrangement did you
use?

I spent several hours with what I thought would work well, a rubber
plug with a bolt inside, but it was extremely eccentric.

So I am looking for better accuracy.


This is what I made for a stop to fit inside my collet closer tube.
http://www.suscom-maine.net/~nsimmon...ColletStop.pdf

The 10-32 screw clamps onto a 1/2" rod, the 1/4-20 expands the 1.100
diameter inside the closer tube. Substitute the encoder shaft and
inside dia of the BP shaft for those dimensions and you should be
good.

IIRC, my unit is just like Ned's. Pretty standard way to expand clamp
something.

Looks like you found another way, based on another part of this
thread.

Karl

Ignoramus13683 wrote:

On top of the head, the pulley shaft is hollow and I can mount
something in there, but then I would have to account for the back gear
and it is slightly messy.

A rod, very close fitting, with an o-ring groove and o-ring to cause it to grip to the
hollow shaft. Use more o-ring grooves and o-rings if you have slippage during start/stop
Easily removable.

Wes

On 2010-12-12, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus13683 wrote:

On top of the head, the pulley shaft is hollow and I can mount
something in there, but then I would have to account for the back gear
and it is slightly messy.

A rod, very close fitting, with an o-ring groove and o-ring to cause it to grip to the
hollow shaft. Use more o-ring grooves and o-rings if you have slippage during start/stop
Easily removable.

OK, this seems to be a good option. I would like this to be a tight
fit, so that I would have to use a hammer to push it in, and a puller
to pull out.

The shaft is 25.94 to 26mm ID. Given that, what would be a good option
for O ring diameter (ID and OD), so that they would compress
properly.

I am thinking to buy 26mm O rings from McMaster, and make grooves so
that the O rings are slightly stretched and stick out to perhaps
26.5mm.

I also see a lot of rubber tube expanding plugs at Mcmaster. I am
thinking that they may provide the easiest option.

i

On 2010-12-11, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:44:10 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 09:21:33 -0600, Ignoramus23245
wrote:



Karl, this is my $64,000 question, what expanding arrangement did you
use?

I spent several hours with what I thought would work well, a rubber
plug with a bolt inside, but it was extremely eccentric.

So I am looking for better accuracy.


This is what I made for a stop to fit inside my collet closer tube.
http://www.suscom-maine.net/~nsimmon...ColletStop.pdf

The 10-32 screw clamps onto a 1/2" rod, the 1/4-20 expands the 1.100
diameter inside the closer tube. Substitute the encoder shaft and
inside dia of the BP shaft for those dimensions and you should be
good.

IIRC, my unit is just like Ned's. Pretty standard way to expand clamp
something.

Looks like you found another way, based on another part of this
thread.

Karl


I am still deciding. I want something easy, that I can also quickly
undo.

i

"Ignoramus23245" wrote in message
...
On 2010-12-11, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:44:10 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 09:21:33 -0600, Ignoramus23245
wrote:



Karl, this is my $64,000 question, what expanding arrangement did you
use?

I spent several hours with what I thought would work well, a rubber
plug with a bolt inside, but it was extremely eccentric.

So I am looking for better accuracy.


This is what I made for a stop to fit inside my collet closer tube.
http://www.suscom-maine.net/~nsimmon...ColletStop.pdf

The 10-32 screw clamps onto a 1/2" rod, the 1/4-20 expands the 1.100
diameter inside the closer tube. Substitute the encoder shaft and
inside dia of the BP shaft for those dimensions and you should be
good.

IIRC, my unit is just like Ned's. Pretty standard way to expand clamp
something.

Looks like you found another way, based on another part of this
thread.

Karl


I am still deciding. I want something easy, that I can also quickly
undo.

i

I don't know if it will fit your application correctly but there are keyless
bushings that expand on the inside and outside, like to hold your encoder
shaft or spline shaft to the bore of a spindle.

http://www.turn-act.com/products_acc_trantorque.htm

RogerN

Wayne C. Gramlich wrote:
A releated question...

What is the desired resolution required to support rigid tapping?
How many "ticks" per revolution?

I really don't think it needs much. The bull gear on a Bridgeport 1J has
81 teeth, so you get 324 quadrature counts. That seems to be quite fine
for the tapping I have done.

Jon

Wayne C. Gramlich wrote:

Can EMC2 keep up with 500ct at 5000rpm? I know tapping does not
occur at that speed.

Can't say for every user's setup. The encoder counter Iggy is using is
my PPMC,
which clocks at one megaHertz, so it should reliably count pretty close
to 500,000
counts/second. 500 counts/rev * 5000 RPM / 60 = 41667 counts/second, so
no sweat. even if it was a 500 CYCLE/rev encoder, giving 2000 counts/rev,
that would be only 166,667 counts/second, so still no problem.

I don't know what hardware assist Karl is using, but at 42K
counts/second, a hardware
encoder counter would be a good idea, it is at the upper limit of
software encoder
counting.

Jon

Ignoramus23245 wrote:
On 2010-12-12, Wes wrote:

Ignoramus13683 wrote:


On top of the head, the pulley shaft is hollow and I can mount
something in there, but then I would have to account for the back gear
and it is slightly messy.

A rod, very close fitting, with an o-ring groove and o-ring to cause it to grip to the
hollow shaft. Use more o-ring grooves and o-rings if you have slippage during start/stop
Easily removable.

What I'd do is make an expanding inside collet. Turn material to just
fit the ID of the spindle. Drill the canter,
then tap for a suitable thread. Then, drill and bore a taper in the
ID. Finally, slot the part with two slots at
90 degrees, on the end with the taper, down to where the thread starts.
Now, make a screw that fits the
thread and matches the taper. When you screw the tapered screw in, it
expands the collet, locking it into the
work. I've made these for some custom turning projects where I wanted
to face both ends and turn the
entire diameter of a part in one setup. They worked like a charm, and
were not hard to make. It almost takes
longer to explain than to make.

As for your specific job, I'd put a slot in the bottom of the collet so
a screwdriver can be stuck up into the
spindle to hold the collet while you tighten the top. You could make
the rod that drives the encoder be the same
part as the tapered screw that expands the collet. It might be easier
to make the encoder move up and down than
to use that ball-spline.

Jon

On 2010-12-12, Jon Elson wrote:
Wayne C. Gramlich wrote:

Can EMC2 keep up with 500ct at 5000rpm? I know tapping does not
occur at that speed.

Can't say for every user's setup. The encoder counter Iggy is using is
my PPMC,
which clocks at one megaHertz, so it should reliably count pretty close
to 500,000
counts/second. 500 counts/rev * 5000 RPM / 60 = 41667 counts/second, so
no sweat. even if it was a 500 CYCLE/rev encoder, giving 2000 counts/rev,
that would be only 166,667 counts/second, so still no problem.

I don't know what hardware assist Karl is using, but at 42K
counts/second, a hardware encoder counter would be a good idea, it
is at the upper limit of software encoder counting.

The US Digital encoder that I have, has 1,024 pulses (or 4096 counts),
so, at 4800 RPM, it will be 4096*4800/60 = 327680 counts per
second. Of course, I would never tap at 4,800 RPM, and in fact, I will
tap in back gear only, under 450 RPM, so I get 30720 counts per second
at most when tapping.

i

Ignoramus23245 wrote:

The shaft is 25.94 to 26mm ID. Given that, what would be a good option
for O ring diameter (ID and OD), so that they would compress
properly.

I am thinking to buy 26mm O rings from McMaster, and make grooves so
that the O rings are slightly stretched and stick out to perhaps
26.5mm.


If your orings are slightly large as far as circumference, you can trim with a razor and
glue them back together again with isocyanate adhesives (Crazy Glue) although I'm fond of
Loctite 411 myself since we have it at work.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 05:53:40 -0500, Wes
wrote:

Ignoramus23245 wrote:

The shaft is 25.94 to 26mm ID. Given that, what would be a good option
for O ring diameter (ID and OD), so that they would compress
properly.

I am thinking to buy 26mm O rings from McMaster, and make grooves so
that the O rings are slightly stretched and stick out to perhaps
26.5mm.


If your orings are slightly large as far as circumference, you can trim with a razor and
glue them back together again with isocyanate adhesives (Crazy Glue) although I'm fond of
Loctite 411 myself since we have it at work.

Does anyone here truly have that good a luck with crazy gluing? I get
a 25% "stick" rate with liquid and about a 66% rate with gel, and I've
tried gluing many different things with many different $1 packets of
super-glue. Is my horrible failure rate due to cheap adhesive, or am
I just doing it all wrong? I've tried primers and thick, medium, and
thin usage, most to no avail.

LJ--Unstuck in Oryguns

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

Larry Jaques wrote:

If your orings are slightly large as far as circumference, you can trim with a razor and
glue them back together again with isocyanate adhesives (Crazy Glue) although I'm fond of
Loctite 411 myself since we have it at work.

Does anyone here truly have that good a luck with crazy gluing? I get
a 25% "stick" rate with liquid and about a 66% rate with gel, and I've
tried gluing many different things with many different $1 packets of
super-glue. Is my horrible failure rate due to cheap adhesive, or am
I just doing it all wrong? I've tried primers and thick, medium, and
thin usage, most to no avail.

Loctite 411 is really good stuff. I also use it to stick buna-n rubber sheets to
polyurethane blocks.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 16:39:15 -0500, Wes
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

If your orings are slightly large as far as circumference, you can trim with a razor and
glue them back together again with isocyanate adhesives (Crazy Glue) although I'm fond of
Loctite 411 myself since we have it at work.

Does anyone here truly have that good a luck with crazy gluing? I get
a 25% "stick" rate with liquid and about a 66% rate with gel, and I've
tried gluing many different things with many different $1 packets of
super-glue. Is my horrible failure rate due to cheap adhesive, or am
I just doing it all wrong? I've tried primers and thick, medium, and
thin usage, most to no avail.

Loctite 411 is really good stuff. I also use it to stick buna-n rubber sheets to
polyurethane blocks.

OMFG! http://fwd4.me/L0G thud
http://fwd4.me/L0V Much better, but look at this vendor's shipping
fee! I'll have to try some of that next time I need cyano.

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 16:39:15 -0500, Wes
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

If your orings are slightly large as far as circumference, you can trim
with a razor and
glue them back together again with isocyanate adhesives (Crazy Glue)
although I'm fond of
Loctite 411 myself since we have it at work.

Does anyone here truly have that good a luck with crazy gluing? I get
a 25% "stick" rate with liquid and about a 66% rate with gel, and I've
tried gluing many different things with many different $1 packets of
super-glue. Is my horrible failure rate due to cheap adhesive, or am
I just doing it all wrong? I've tried primers and thick, medium, and
thin usage, most to no avail.

Loctite 411 is really good stuff. I also use it to stick buna-n rubber
sheets to polyurethane blocks.

OMFG! http://fwd4.me/L0G thud

It seems to be $214.05 for one pound of the stuff, according to the
title.

One pound is 453.59237 grams, so this is $0.472 per gram, of $1.42 for 3
grams.

An industrial user could well use this much before it spoiled.


http://fwd4.me/L0V Much better, but look at this vendor's shipping
fee! I'll have to try some of that next time I need cyano.

This is $4.34 for 3 grams, which isn't bad given the fixed per-package
costs.


Joe Gwinn

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 16:39:15 -0500, Wes
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

If your orings are slightly large as far as circumference, you can trim with a razor and
glue them back together again with isocyanate adhesives (Crazy Glue) although I'm fond of
Loctite 411 myself since we have it at work.

Does anyone here truly have that good a luck with crazy gluing? I get
a 25% "stick" rate with liquid and about a 66% rate with gel, and I've
tried gluing many different things with many different $1 packets of
super-glue. Is my horrible failure rate due to cheap adhesive, or am
I just doing it all wrong? I've tried primers and thick, medium, and
thin usage, most to no avail.

Loctite 411 is really good stuff. I also use it to stick buna-n rubber sheets to
polyurethane blocks.

OMFG! http://fwd4.me/L0G thud
http://fwd4.me/L0V Much better, but look at this vendor's shipping
fee! I'll have to try some of that next time I need cyano.

McMaster has it in various volumes.

411 0.10-oz. (3g) Tube 5,000 30 sec. 0.008" -65° to +180° F Clear 74765A73
$5.02
411 0.7-oz. (20g) Bottle 5,000 30 sec. 0.008" -65° to +180° F Clear 74765A43
22.85
411 1-lb. Bottle 5,000 30 sec. 0.008" -65° to +180° F Clear 74765A86
234.32

I tend to use the .7 oz size.

Wes