Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

wrote in message
...
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

I gotta give it to the guy. Beaten on the head, and then he throws a
perfect strike with the employee just a couple of feet to the right of the
gunfire. Looks like he hit him center mass, right in his big fat belly, and
the guy didn't move.

Yes, it is a good thing for citizens to have guns for times like this when
vermin roam the streets. When a person does that sort of thing, they
deserve what they get.

And again, Nice Shot!

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On 10/5/2010 11:11 AM, Steve B wrote:
wrote in message
...
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

I gotta give it to the guy. Beaten on the head, and then he throws a
perfect strike with the employee just a couple of feet to the right of the
gunfire. Looks like he hit him center mass, right in his big fat belly, and
the guy didn't move.

Yes, it is a good thing for citizens to have guns for times like this when
vermin roam the streets. When a person does that sort of thing, they
deserve what they get.

And again, Nice Shot!

I agree, great shot, under extreme duress


--
I can see November from my front porch

On Oct 5, 2:43*am, wrote:
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

Did he fire twice, or does the soda bottle explode after the bullet
goes through the guy?

Dave

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should
have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

I gotta give it to the guy. Beaten on the head, and then he throws
a
perfect strike with the employee just a couple of feet to the right
of the
gunfire. Looks like he hit him center mass, right in his big fat
belly, and
the guy didn't move.

Yes, it is a good thing for citizens to have guns for times like
this when
vermin roam the streets. When a person does that sort of thing,
they
deserve what they get.

And again, Nice Shot!

The anti-gun commies claim that guns don't prevent crimes - well,
there are
no statistics on the crimes that have been prevented by private
guns - the
perpetrator was deterred, and no crime was committed, ergo, there was
nothing
to report!

Thanks,
Rich

wrote in message
...
On Oct 5, 2:43 am, wrote:
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

Did he fire twice, or does the soda bottle explode after the bullet
goes through the guy?

Dave

After the first shot that decks the guy, they come back to the owner behind
the counter, and he fires again. I don't know if it is a second shot, or
just another angle of the first.

The guy on the deck doesn't move one little bit, so it must have been a
massive through the pancreas shot.

Steve

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should
have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

I gotta give it to the guy. Beaten on the head, and then he throws
a
perfect strike with the employee just a couple of feet to the right
of the
gunfire. Looks like he hit him center mass, right in his big fat
belly, and
the guy didn't move.

Yes, it is a good thing for citizens to have guns for times like
this when
vermin roam the streets. When a person does that sort of thing,
they
deserve what they get.

And again, Nice Shot!

The anti-gun commies claim that guns don't prevent crimes - well,
there are
no statistics on the crimes that have been prevented by private
guns - the
perpetrator was deterred, and no crime was committed, ergo, there was
nothing
to report!

Thanks,
Rich

It's news reporting, 1984 Orwellian style.

Steve

RBnDFW wrote:

And again, Nice Shot!

I agree, great shot, under extreme duress


Not bad for one hand. Good or lucky?

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On 2010-10-06, Wes wrote:
RBnDFW wrote:

And again, Nice Shot!

I agree, great shot, under extreme duress


Not bad for one hand. Good or lucky?

Keep in mind guys, it was a very close shot.

i

In article , wrote:
RBnDFW wrote:

And again, Nice Shot!

I agree, great shot, under extreme duress


Not bad for one hand. Good or lucky?

Good or lucky, doesn't matter. The goblin is dead, and the good guys aren't.
That's what matters.

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

I gotta give it to the guy. Beaten on the head, and then he throws a
perfect strike with the employee just a couple of feet to the right of the
gunfire. Looks like he hit him center mass, right in his big fat belly,
and the guy didn't move.

Yes, it is a good thing for citizens to have guns for times like this when
vermin roam the streets. When a person does that sort of thing, they
deserve what they get.

it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

And again, Nice Shot!

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On 2010-10-06, Bill Noble wrote:


"Steve B" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

I gotta give it to the guy. Beaten on the head, and then he throws a
perfect strike with the employee just a couple of feet to the right of the
gunfire. Looks like he hit him center mass, right in his big fat belly,
and the guy didn't move.

Yes, it is a good thing for citizens to have guns for times like this when
vermin roam the streets. When a person does that sort of thing, they
deserve what they get.

it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

Assuming the movie was not fake, what I saw was not a murder.

i

On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:02:59 -0700, Bill Noble wrote:

it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

So, you find it distasteful that a man can defend his life and property
by proper use of a firearm at the proper time? Would you rather have
seen the perpetrator cut the shopkeeper's throat?

Thanks,
Rich

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:02:59 -0700, Bill Noble wrote:

it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

So, you find it distasteful that a man can defend his life and property
by proper use of a firearm at the proper time? Would you rather have
seen the perpetrator cut the shopkeeper's throat?

Thanks,
Rich


I think Bill is saying that it was distasteful that he had to defend himself
in the first instance.

wrote in message
...
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

Sure is terrible preliminary security and a terrible layout of the shop.
Since the guy had a gun handy, I'll bet crime is not unheard of in the
neighborhood. In my ghetto, the shops are very security conscious and this
scenario couldn't happen. Two-inch glass in front of the counters is the
norm and a shop geography that discourages crime works! But, guns are
cheaper and a lot more fun...especially if you bait your targets into range.
It's a shame the guy lost some product due to weapon fire.

On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 20:02:59 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"Steve B" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

I gotta give it to the guy. Beaten on the head, and then he throws a
perfect strike with the employee just a couple of feet to the right of the
gunfire. Looks like he hit him center mass, right in his big fat belly,
and the guy didn't move.

Yes, it is a good thing for citizens to have guns for times like this when
vermin roam the streets. When a person does that sort of thing, they
deserve what they get.

it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed"

I'll say it and mean it: it's sad that a gun was needed. That said,
it's a good thing that it was available when needed to deal decisively
with a violent assailent wielding a deadly weapon with clearly lethal
intent while committing a crime which, if not stopped, would very
probably have been felony murder. The proprietor didn't commit murder,
he prevented it.

BTW, you don't know that the violent criminal assailant died, only
that he was stopped from mortally harming the proprietor or his
employee.

On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:33:06 -0500, Ignoramus25694
wrote:

On 2010-10-06, Wes wrote:
RBnDFW wrote:

And again, Nice Shot!

I agree, great shot, under extreme duress


Not bad for one hand. Good or lucky?

Keep in mind guys, it was a very close shot.

i

But pointed rather than aimed,delivered very quickly, and it was
probably 10 or 15 feet. Try that under stress before you judge.

It was a very good shot, probably lucky but luck counts.

On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 20:02:59 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:


it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

No....the guy with the knife was sick and he got his cure.
Dave

On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 22:07:13 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:


So, you find it distasteful that a man can defend his life and property
by proper use of a firearm at the proper time? Would you rather have
seen the perpetrator cut the shopkeeper's throat?

Thanks,
Rich

There are plenty of videos on that channel of exactly that (perp
killing store clerk) happening too.
Dave

"Bill Noble" fired this volley in news:i8got2
:

in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

Bill --

It's sad that a gun was needed. That ******* should have been killed
when he was ten or eleven years old.

He walked in and (at least tried to) slit the throat of a customer!


LLoyd

On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 01:35:42 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


It's a shame the guy lost some product due to weapon fire.


Lets not forget a trip to the ER for stitches, most likely a day or
two with his shop closed for clean-up and the cops to do their thing.

Robbery does not appear to be the perps motive, murder does. He stpes
thru the door and goes right for the first guys throat.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Bill Noble wrote:
it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

And wishing and hoping (is one or two P's?) will solve the crime
problem???????
...lew...

On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 22:21:10 -0500, Ignoramus25694
wrote:

On 2010-10-06, Bill Noble wrote:


"Steve B" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

I gotta give it to the guy. Beaten on the head, and then he throws a
perfect strike with the employee just a couple of feet to the right of the
gunfire. Looks like he hit him center mass, right in his big fat belly,
and the guy didn't move.

Yes, it is a good thing for citizens to have guns for times like this when
vermin roam the streets. When a person does that sort of thing, they
deserve what they get.

it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

Assuming the movie was not fake, what I saw was not a murder.

Bill's on my twitlist, so tell him for me that to see a person stand
up for himself where the cops can't is A Good Thing. It is the type of
people upon whom this country was founded. While I agree that it's
sad that the perp was so drawn, it's good that the shop owner stopped
him cold, with whatever means necessary. He's reacting to reality, not
some ideal. Have Bill work his ideal on the -perps-, not us. If
violence is so bad, if Bill had been there, would he have tried to
prevent the shop owner from stopping the truly violent person in that
store? Would he have gone after the perp empty handed? Feh!

That was purely self defense and defense of his other clients by the
shop owner. The cops are surely calling it a righteous shoot.

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

"Bill Noble" wrote

it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

I can see that you are no fan of history, or a reader of books. Should you
be such a reader, you would understand that we are lessening the incidences
where people use violence against violence.

In the old west, and in the last three hundred years, the shootings of "bad
guys" was considered a good thing because it removed that person from
society, and they could not murder or rape or commit violence again. And
lots of times, the police force did the deed, but in many cases, ordinary
citizens put an end to someone's criminal career, and in a lot of cases
walked. Or were never identified, or even searched for very hard.

When was this historical period where all this Pollyannaish behavior was the
norm? I'd be curious to know, as I have never heard of it. It only seems
like recently when we get all this "Can't we all just get along" mentality.

And when you speak of what we have given up, about the major things I can
see that we have surrendered are gun rights, rights of privacy, and the
right to be safe in our own homes and on our own properties.

Steve

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:33:06 -0500, Ignoramus25694
wrote:

On 2010-10-06, Wes wrote:
RBnDFW wrote:

And again, Nice Shot!

I agree, great shot, under extreme duress


Not bad for one hand. Good or lucky?

Keep in mind guys, it was a very close shot.

i

But pointed rather than aimed,delivered very quickly, and it was
probably 10 or 15 feet. Try that under stress before you judge.

It was a very good shot, probably lucky but luck counts.

And I like that gangsta grip with the weapon on the horizontal.

Steve

On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 12:54:22 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Oct 5, 2:43 am, wrote:
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

Did he fire twice, or does the soda bottle explode after the bullet
goes through the guy?

Dave

After the first shot that decks the guy, they come back to the owner behind
the counter, and he fires again. I don't know if it is a second shot, or
just another angle of the first.

The guy on the deck doesn't move one little bit, so it must have been a
massive through the pancreas shot.

Steve



It was a different camera angle. If you watch it and remember from the
first clip what the store owner did, you can compare the movements and
see that it was a different camera.

This was also in another country, judging by the surroundings, the car
on the street, and the signs.
Jim

"Randy" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 01:35:42 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


It's a shame the guy lost some product due to weapon fire.


Lets not forget a trip to the ER for stitches, most likely a day or
two with his shop closed for clean-up and the cops to do their thing.

Robbery does not appear to be the perps motive, murder does. He stpes
thru the door and goes right for the first guys throat.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

You are right about the motive. Certainly the shooting was completely
justified, but there is a story behind this video. What made this lunatic
want to kill the store clerks? Something made him mad as hell. Did they
gang rape his daughter? With out us knowing the whole backstory, the
gloating by some in this thread betrays their blood thirstyness.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 22:21:10 -0500, Ignoramus25694
wrote:

On 2010-10-06, Bill Noble wrote:


"Steve B" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Nice little demonstration about why all law abiding people should have
the right to gun ownership.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3b_1286227189

I am thinking that was a .45 cal. because the bad guy just gets
decked.
Dave

I gotta give it to the guy. Beaten on the head, and then he throws a
perfect strike with the employee just a couple of feet to the right of
the
gunfire. Looks like he hit him center mass, right in his big fat
belly,
and the guy didn't move.

Yes, it is a good thing for citizens to have guns for times like this
when
vermin roam the streets. When a person does that sort of thing, they
deserve what they get.

it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

Assuming the movie was not fake, what I saw was not a murder.

Bill's on my twitlist, so tell him for me that to see a person stand
up for himself where the cops can't is A Good Thing. It is the type of
people upon whom this country was founded. While I agree that it's
sad that the perp was so drawn, it's good that the shop owner stopped
him cold, with whatever means necessary. He's reacting to reality, not
some ideal. Have Bill work his ideal on the -perps-, not us. If
violence is so bad, if Bill had been there, would he have tried to
prevent the shop owner from stopping the truly violent person in that
store? Would he have gone after the perp empty handed? Feh!

That was purely self defense and defense of his other clients by the
shop owner. The cops are surely calling it a righteous shoot.

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

Read my response later in the thread, My point is, and Bill's is similar,
that there seems to be no awareness or consideration for security, other
than having a gun handy. Without such awareness and forethought, you might
as well advertise "I AM A VICTIM". Everything I have learned, especially
since joining IDPA is geared to NOT being a victim. This shooting was just
waiting to happen and if the proprietor doesn't change things the same thing
will happen again and again.

On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 10:04:25 -0700, "anorton"
wrote:


You are right about the motive. Certainly the shooting was completely
justified, but there is a story behind this video. What made this lunatic
want to kill the store clerks? Something made him mad as hell. Did they
gang rape his daughter? With out us knowing the whole backstory, the
gloating by some in this thread betrays their blood thirstyness.

The guy walked in and the first thing he did was slash the throat of
some guy who apparently was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
It, therefore, is difficult to attribute some variety of rational
motive to the perp.

This (just a guess) looks like it could have been Turkey where this
incident took place. Maybe radical Islamic ****ed off because store
sells booze? Lots of store owners selling booze in Iraq got killed by
fundies.

It's difficult to say without some more info on the video though.
Dave

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Bill Noble" wrote

it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

I can see that you are no fan of history, or a reader of books. Should
you be such a reader, you would understand that we are lessening the
incidences where people use violence against violence.

In the old west, and in the last three hundred years, the shootings of
"bad guys" was considered a good thing because it removed that person from
society, and they could not murder or rape or commit violence again. And
lots of times, the police force did the deed, but in many cases, ordinary
citizens put an end to someone's criminal career, and in a lot of cases
walked. Or were never identified, or even searched for very hard.

When was this historical period where all this Pollyannaish behavior was
the norm? I'd be curious to know, as I have never heard of it. It only
seems like recently when we get all this "Can't we all just get along"
mentality.

And when you speak of what we have given up, about the major things I can
see that we have surrendered are gun rights, rights of privacy, and the
right to be safe in our own homes and on our own properties.

Steve



Not rights...RESPONSIBILITIES! Be situationally aware, or be a victim.
Most situations can easily be avoided. Police are available after the fact
to draw chalk outlines and do paperwork.

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:02:59 -0700, Bill Noble wrote:

it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

So, you find it distasteful that a man can defend his life and property
by proper use of a firearm at the proper time? Would you rather have
seen the perpetrator cut the shopkeeper's throat?

Thanks,
Rich

no, that is not what I said - I haven't watched the movie and I don't intend
to. What I said is that we used to find this violence offensive and bad,
and every respondent except me has done nothing but gloat over the
employment of violence. That is what is sad, not that someone in defense of
their life was successful. I stand by my statement, you guys are sick

"Bill Noble" fired this volley in
:

What I said is that we used to find this violence offensive and bad,
and every respondent except me has done nothing but gloat over the
employment of violence. That is what is sad, not that someone in
defense of their life was successful. I stand by my statement, you
guys are sick

Nobody here gloated over the use of violence. Any sane person (including
soldiers) avoid it, if any other possibility exists.

If any "gloating" was enjoyed, it was over "justice" employed by the hand
of the victim of the crime where no amount of "situational awareness"
could possibly have prevented the crime.

Do you, for a moment, think that the customer whose throat was cut had
any possibility of expecting that attack?

Opinions like yours are part of the very source of this kind of crime.
"Let the victim be compassionate" should not be the catch-phrase of crime
prevention.

LLoyd


LLoyd

"Bill Noble" wrote:

no, that is not what I said - I haven't watched the movie and I don't intend
to. What I said is that we used to find this violence offensive and bad,
and every respondent except me has done nothing but gloat over the
employment of violence. That is what is sad, not that someone in defense of
their life was successful. I stand by my statement, you guys are sick

I wasn't happy watching the guy with the knife cutting people. I found that very
offensive.

One of the guys that got slashed had a firearm and used it to stop the cutting spree.
IIRC, one shot, bad guy down, he stopped shooting.

The guy will likely have nightmares from being slashed, maybe from killing the bad guy if
the guy died.

Now if those of us that value peace but are not prepared to be a victim look favorably on
a man that prevailed because he was prepared for potentialities, that does not make us
sick. Tell me who you think that replied wants someone to come at them in order to have a
chance to try out their marksmanship.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 10:04:25 -0700, "anorton"
wrote:


You are right about the motive. Certainly the shooting was completely
justified, but there is a story behind this video. What made this lunatic
want to kill the store clerks? Something made him mad as hell. Did they
gang rape his daughter? With out us knowing the whole backstory, the
gloating by some in this thread betrays their blood thirstyness.

The guy walked in and the first thing he did was slash the throat of
some guy who apparently was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
It, therefore, is difficult to attribute some variety of rational
motive to the perp.

This (just a guess) looks like it could have been Turkey where this
incident took place. Maybe radical Islamic ****ed off because store
sells booze? Lots of store owners selling booze in Iraq got killed by
fundies.

It's difficult to say without some more info on the video though.
Dave

Here is some of the backstory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6gcFPjdwiI

This was in Turkey. The guy with the knife was the new owner of another
store down the block. The shooter was the owner of this store and knew him
but says he has NO IDEA what the other guy's problem was. Obviously
something went on between the two that the shooter is not talking about.
This is a tragedy where the shooter probably is not completely innocent. All
the knifing victims survived.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

"Bill Noble" fired this volley in
:

What I said is that we used to find this violence offensive and bad,
and every respondent except me has done nothing but gloat over the
employment of violence. That is what is sad, not that someone in
defense of their life was successful. I stand by my statement, you
guys are sick

Nobody here gloated over the use of violence. Any sane person (including
soldiers) avoid it, if any other possibility exists.

If any "gloating" was enjoyed, it was over "justice" employed by the hand
of the victim of the crime where no amount of "situational awareness"
could possibly have prevented the crime.

Do you, for a moment, think that the customer whose throat was cut had
any possibility of expecting that attack?

Opinions like yours are part of the very source of this kind of crime.
"Let the victim be compassionate" should not be the catch-phrase of crime
prevention.


"Let the perp die a very slow and painful death" is a better
approach. Make the SOBs well aware that their life is forfeit, if they
do the crime. No third strike. No second strike. Commit a violent
crime and pay for it.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

"anorton" fired this volley in
m:

All
the knifing victims survived.


Which also means the perp was too stupid to know how to sharpen a knife.

The first attack should have been fatal. Gladly, it was incompetently
done, and (apparently) was not.

LLoyd

On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 14:54:32 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news

Bill's on my twitlist, so tell him for me that to see a person stand
up for himself where the cops can't is A Good Thing. It is the type of
people upon whom this country was founded. While I agree that it's
sad that the perp was so drawn, it's good that the shop owner stopped
him cold, with whatever means necessary. He's reacting to reality, not
some ideal. Have Bill work his ideal on the -perps-, not us. If
violence is so bad, if Bill had been there, would he have tried to
prevent the shop owner from stopping the truly violent person in that
store? Would he have gone after the perp empty handed? Feh!

That was purely self defense and defense of his other clients by the
shop owner. The cops are surely calling it a righteous shoot.

Read my response later in the thread, My point is, and Bill's is similar,
that there seems to be no awareness or consideration for security, other
than having a gun handy. Without such awareness and forethought, you might
as well advertise "I AM A VICTIM". Everything I have learned, especially
since joining IDPA is geared to NOT being a victim. This shooting was just
waiting to happen and if the proprietor doesn't change things the same thing
will happen again and again.

Yeah, what's a Malaysian proprietor to do? Catching (and actually
dealing with) the criminals before they become the bad (both inept and
nasty) and violent ones like this would be a nice start.

--
You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.
--Jack London

On Wed, 06 Oct 2010 19:24:47 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"anorton" fired this volley in
om:

All
the knifing victims survived.


Which also means the perp was too stupid to know how to sharpen a knife.

The first attack should have been fatal. Gladly, it was incompetently
done, and (apparently) was not.

Well, at least that's one butter knife on the streets out there which
won't be inflicting red marks on people's throats any more.

--
You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.
--Jack London

"Buerste" wrote

Not rights...RESPONSIBILITIES! Be situationally aware, or be a victim.
Most situations can easily be avoided. Police are available after the
fact to draw chalk outlines and do paperwork.

So, is being situationally aware and knowing in advance that you are going
to die better than having a gun around just on the off chance? Situational
awareness can keep a lot of people out of a jam. But once you're IN a jam,
or the attack has begun, or the route of retreat is blocked, does
situational awareness kick in with endorphins that help you die with less
pain?

Steve

"Bill Noble" wrote in message
...


"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:02:59 -0700, Bill Noble wrote:

it is really sad to see how much we have given up, how much we willingly
throw away - there was a time when we thought gun violence was bad and
should be avoided, when murder was undesirable, and when we wanted less
crime - in this thread all there is is gloating over death, not a single
person says "it's sad that a gun was needed", not a single person says
anything at all except to praise violence. you guys are sick.

So, you find it distasteful that a man can defend his life and property
by proper use of a firearm at the proper time? Would you rather have
seen the perpetrator cut the shopkeeper's throat?

Thanks,
Rich

no, that is not what I said - I haven't watched the movie and I don't
intend to. What I said is that we used to find this violence offensive
and bad, and every respondent except me has done nothing but gloat over
the employment of violence. That is what is sad, not that someone in
defense of their life was successful. I stand by my statement, you guys
are sick

Think what you want, but if you are ever in a Luby's, or McDonald's, or
other situation where there is a camoed up shooter, no, you cannot borrow my
gun. If that makes me sick, then I'm sick. Is being willing to defend
one's own life, and those of innocent bystanders an indication of being
sick, and if so, how so?

Steve