I seem to recall someone (or more than one ...) here is/was involved in
building tube frames for race cars . I'm debating building a trike rear end
to put on an older Honda CB750 , and need a bit of guidance ... my wife
wants to ride but doesn't like to lean .
Looks like the best-handling option is going to be unequal length A-frames
with CV jointed half shafts and dual inboard disc brakes . I'm undecided
about springing options , whether coil-over shocks , maybe a single
transverse leaf . Either option will require a torsion bar to control body
roll . Going to have to have an enclosed spider differential setup , with a
sprocket mounted for chain drive - maybe from an ATV ? Front suspension hubs
from a FWD car look like the cheapest option ...
And it all needs to fit into a 14 x 14 x 27 inch package , plus the width
of the A-frames , and the mounting points extending to the front to bolt it
to the M/C frame . I'm considering using 1" sq tube and 1x2" tube for the
frame members . I'd like to use the original swingarm and shock absorber
mount points , since they're designed to support the loads ... and I
haven'rt even begun to consider body work to cover it all .
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 08:06:22 -0500, "Snag"
wrote:

I seem to recall someone (or more than one ...) here is/was involved in
building tube frames for race cars . I'm debating building a trike rear end
to put on an older Honda CB750 , and need a bit of guidance ... my wife
wants to ride but doesn't like to lean .
Looks like the best-handling option is going to be unequal length A-frames
with CV jointed half shafts and dual inboard disc brakes . I'm undecided
about springing options , whether coil-over shocks , maybe a single
transverse leaf . Either option will require a torsion bar to control body
roll . Going to have to have an enclosed spider differential setup , with a
sprocket mounted for chain drive - maybe from an ATV ? Front suspension hubs
from a FWD car look like the cheapest option ...
And it all needs to fit into a 14 x 14 x 27 inch package , plus the width
of the A-frames , and the mounting points extending to the front to bolt it
to the M/C frame . I'm considering using 1" sq tube and 1x2" tube for the
frame members . I'd like to use the original swingarm and shock absorber
mount points , since they're designed to support the loads ... and I
haven'rt even begun to consider body work to cover it all .


There's a manufacturer for trike conversions right in my hometown.
They are a major supplier for the entire country. My son has even
sub-contracted for them. I bet "the kid" could get you a kit for
wholesale if you're interested in that route. He'd want to make a
couple $ for his trouble.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 08:06:22 -0500, "Snag"
wrote:

I seem to recall someone (or more than one ...) here is/was
involved in building tube frames for race cars . I'm debating
building a trike rear end to put on an older Honda CB750 , and need
a bit of guidance ... my wife wants to ride but doesn't like to lean
.
Looks like the best-handling option is going to be unequal length
A-frames with CV jointed half shafts and dual inboard disc brakes .
I'm undecided about springing options , whether coil-over shocks ,
maybe a single transverse leaf . Either option will require a
torsion bar to control body roll . Going to have to have an
enclosed spider differential setup , with a sprocket mounted for
chain drive - maybe from an ATV ? Front suspension hubs from a FWD
car look like the cheapest option ... And it all needs to fit into
a 14 x 14 x 27 inch package , plus the width of the A-frames , and
the mounting points extending to the front to bolt it to the M/C
frame . I'm considering using 1" sq tube and 1x2" tube for the frame
members . I'd like to use the original swingarm and shock absorber
mount points , since they're designed to support the loads ... and I
haven'rt even begun to consider body work to cover it all .


There's a manufacturer for trike conversions right in my hometown.
They are a major supplier for the entire country. My son has even
sub-contracted for them. I bet "the kid" could get you a kit for
wholesale if you're interested in that route. He'd want to make a
couple $ for his trouble.

Karl

I'd settle for a set of sketches of the geometry ... the budget on this
one is "do it yourself or you can't afford it" .
We've decided to sell her Kawasaki since she's just not all that hot on
leaning into turns , and my budget is whatever I can get for it . Probably
somewhere in the $700-$900 range - which will buy the materials (I hope !) .
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

I'd settle for a set of sketches of the geometry ... the budget on this
one is "do it yourself or you can't afford it" .
We've decided to sell her Kawasaki since she's just not all that hot on
leaning into turns , and my budget is whatever I can get for it . Probably
somewhere in the $700-$900 range - which will buy the materials (I hope !) .

If you're rolling yer own...

Can you start with a shaft drive bike? (That would not be the Honda
750, its chain drive) Then take the smallest rear wheel drive car you
can find for drive and suspension parts.

I've seen a few people that can just do this. For most it would be a
nightmare to design.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
I'd settle for a set of sketches of the geometry ... the budget on
this one is "do it yourself or you can't afford it" .
We've decided to sell her Kawasaki since she's just not all that
hot on leaning into turns , and my budget is whatever I can get for
it . Probably somewhere in the $700-$900 range - which will buy the
materials (I hope !) .

If you're rolling yer own...

Can you start with a shaft drive bike? (That would not be the Honda
750, its chain drive) Then take the smallest rear wheel drive car you
can find for drive and suspension parts.

I've seen a few people that can just do this. For most it would be a
nightmare to design.

Karl

Well , the thing is that I already have the CB750 , and it's paid for .
Got some ideas for casting a housing for the diff out of aluminum I have on
hand ... start with a lost-foam casting , or maybe make a wood pattern that
I can alter for offset depth to accomodate the sprocket , since it's
off-center . Might be able to incorporate a single 4-pot caliper on the diff
housing , that'd simplify things a lot too .
Ideas , ideas , streaming thru my head ... I had a hard time getting to
sleep last night .
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

On Oct 4, 8:00*am, "Snag" wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:
*I'd settle for a set of sketches of the geometry ... the budget on
this one is "do it yourself or you can't afford it" .
*We've decided to sell her Kawasaki since she's just not all that
hot on leaning into turns , and my budget is whatever I can get for
it . Probably somewhere in the $700-$900 range - which will buy the
materials (I hope !) .

If you're rolling yer own...

Can you start with a shaft drive bike? (That would not be the Honda
750, its chain drive) Then take the smallest *rear wheel drive car you
can find for drive and suspension parts.

I've seen a few people that can just do this. For most it would be a
nightmare to design.

Karl

* Well , the thing is that I already have the CB750 , and it's paid for

On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 08:00:32 -0500, "Snag"
wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:
I'd settle for a set of sketches of the geometry ... the budget on
this one is "do it yourself or you can't afford it" .
We've decided to sell her Kawasaki since she's just not all that
hot on leaning into turns , and my budget is whatever I can get for
it . Probably somewhere in the $700-$900 range - which will buy the
materials (I hope !) .

If you're rolling yer own...

Can you start with a shaft drive bike? (That would not be the Honda
750, its chain drive) Then take the smallest rear wheel drive car you
can find for drive and suspension parts.

I've seen a few people that can just do this. For most it would be a
nightmare to design.

Karl

Well , the thing is that I already have the CB750 , and it's paid for .
Got some ideas for casting a housing for the diff out of aluminum I have on
hand ... start with a lost-foam casting , or maybe make a wood pattern that
I can alter for offset depth to accomodate the sprocket , since it's
off-center . Might be able to incorporate a single 4-pot caliper on the diff
housing , that'd simplify things a lot too .
Ideas , ideas , streaming thru my head ... I had a hard time getting to
sleep last night .
You do NOT want a single rear wheel brake on a trike - trust me.

On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 08:06:22 -0500
"Snag" wrote:

snip
I'm debating building a trike rear end
to put on an older Honda CB750...

Have you considered a trike front end? In my eyes this would be a
simpler task. I think it was Wes who took a picture of one several years
ago. It was an older motorcycle, like a 750. He might still have the
picture around somewhere. Pretty sure I saved it too, but where on the
hard drive is the question I'll go searching for it (picture) if you
want to pursue this idea.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 08:06:22 -0500
"Snag" wrote:

snip
I'm debating building a trike rear end
to put on an older Honda CB750...

Have you considered a trike front end? In my eyes this would be a
simpler task. I think it was Wes who took a picture of one several
years ago. It was an older motorcycle, like a 750. He might still
have the picture around somewhere. Pretty sure I saved it too, but
where on the hard drive is the question I'll go searching for it
(picture) if you want to pursue this idea.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

I'm assuming you mean two wheels up front and single rear drive wheel ?
There's a fairly new production unit , the Trans-Am Spyder with that setup .
I've heard that setup handles better than the two-in-the-rear trikes , but
they still look funny to me ... however , that is a consideration , and I
might just have to drag her out the the Spyder dealer here to see what she
thinks .
It would be a lot easier that way , without drive components complicating
things . If you can find that snapshot I'd appreciate it ! My reply-to is
good ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

On 10/03/2010 04:00 PM, Snag wrote:
Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 08:06:22 -0500
wrote:

snip
I'm debating building a trike rear end
to put on an older Honda CB750...

Have you considered a trike front end? In my eyes this would be a
simpler task. I think it was Wes who took a picture of one several
years ago. It was an older motorcycle, like a 750. He might still
have the picture around somewhere. Pretty sure I saved it too, but
where on the hard drive is the question I'll go searching for it
(picture) if you want to pursue this idea.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

I'm assuming you mean two wheels up front and single rear drive wheel ?
There's a fairly new production unit , the Trans-Am Spyder with that setup .
I've heard that setup handles better than the two-in-the-rear trikes , but
they still look funny to me ... however , that is a consideration , and I
might just have to drag her out the the Spyder dealer here to see what she
thinks .
It would be a lot easier that way , without drive components complicating
things . If you can find that snapshot I'd appreciate it ! My reply-to is
good ...

My understanding is that two in front is much more stable than two in
back. The Morgan Trike and it's brethren were winning car races back in
the late '20's, until they were outlawed for not having enough wheels.

With two in back, she'll love you until she finds herself under a
motorcycle. You don't want that.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim Wescott wrote:


My understanding is that two in front is much more stable than two in
back. The Morgan Trike and it's brethren were winning car races back
in the late '20's, until they were outlawed for not having enough
wheels.
With two in back, she'll love you until she finds herself under a
motorcycle. You don't want that.

--

Tim Wescott

You're right about that !!

--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:00:03 -0500
"Snag" wrote:

snip
It would be a lot easier that way , without drive components complicating
things . If you can find that snapshot I'd appreciate it ! My reply-to is
good ...

It took some digging...

This is the web page that Wes made:

http://garage-machinist.com/BuckleyOldeEngineShow/2008/

Take a look at the first four pictures. Not quite how I remembered it
but maybe it will give you some ideas...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:00:03 -0500
"Snag" wrote:

snip
It would be a lot easier that way , without drive components
complicating things . If you can find that snapshot I'd appreciate
it ! My reply-to is good ...

It took some digging...

This is the web page that Wes made:

http://garage-machinist.com/BuckleyOldeEngineShow/2008/

Take a look at the first four pictures. Not quite how I remembered it
but maybe it will give you some ideas...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Very interesting indeed ! Thanks for the link .

--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

On 10/04/2010 12:36 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:00:03 -0500
wrote:

snip
It would be a lot easier that way , without drive components complicating
things . If you can find that snapshot I'd appreciate it ! My reply-to is
good ...

It took some digging...

This is the web page that Wes made:

http://garage-machinist.com/BuckleyOldeEngineShow/2008/

Take a look at the first four pictures. Not quite how I remembered it
but maybe it will give you some ideas...

It sure looks cool!

I would have done the same thing with a double wishbone suspension, and
maybe little car tires. If you go that way, keep in mind that the
geometry that's right for a single motorcycle wheel may lead to
horrendous bump steer and other difficulties on a vehicle that will
essentially handle like a car.

But it sure looks cool.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 13:43:54 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On 10/04/2010 12:36 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:00:03 -0500
wrote:

snip
It would be a lot easier that way , without drive components complicating
things . If you can find that snapshot I'd appreciate it ! My reply-to is
good ...

It took some digging...

This is the web page that Wes made:

http://garage-machinist.com/BuckleyOldeEngineShow/2008/

Take a look at the first four pictures. Not quite how I remembered it
but maybe it will give you some ideas...

It sure looks cool!

I would have done the same thing with a double wishbone suspension, and
maybe little car tires. If you go that way, keep in mind that the
geometry that's right for a single motorcycle wheel may lead to
horrendous bump steer and other difficulties on a vehicle that will
essentially handle like a car.

But it sure looks cool.
Put a "bug" front axle on it. You can narrow it easily - and lighten
the torsion rods (or remove them and install coil-overs)

On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 16:24:23 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 08:06:22 -0500
"Snag" wrote:

snip
I'm debating building a trike rear end
to put on an older Honda CB750...

Have you considered a trike front end? In my eyes this would be a
simpler task. I think it was Wes who took a picture of one several years
ago. It was an older motorcycle, like a 750. He might still have the
picture around somewhere. Pretty sure I saved it too, but where on the
hard drive is the question I'll go searching for it (picture) if you
want to pursue this idea.
A WHOLE LOT more surefooted in the handling department. Think Morgan
vs Reliant Robin.

On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:29:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 16:24:23 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 08:06:22 -0500
"Snag" wrote:

snip
I'm debating building a trike rear end
to put on an older Honda CB750...

Have you considered a trike front end? In my eyes this would be a
simpler task. I think it was Wes who took a picture of one several years
ago. It was an older motorcycle, like a 750. He might still have the
picture around somewhere. Pretty sure I saved it too, but where on the
hard drive is the question I'll go searching for it (picture) if you
want to pursue this idea.
A WHOLE LOT more surefooted in the handling department. Think Morgan
vs Reliant Robin.

Snowmobile ski suspension components will work for most of the setup.
- trailing arms back to footpeg area etc.

On 10/3/2010 3:24 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 08:06:22 -0500
wrote:

snip
I'm debating building a trike rear end
to put on an older Honda CB750...

Have you considered a trike front end? In my eyes this would be a
simpler task. I think it was Wes who took a picture of one several years
ago. It was an older motorcycle, like a 750. He might still have the
picture around somewhere. Pretty sure I saved it too, but where on the
hard drive is the question I'll go searching for it (picture) if you
want to pursue this idea.


I like those things a lot. Bombardier makes one most like what you would
want:

http://spyder.brp.com/en-US/

I saw a new one yesterday at the TX state fair. T-Rex

http://www.gizmag.com/go/3535/picture/7357/



--
I can see November from my front porch

On 10/03/2010 06:06 AM, Snag wrote:
I seem to recall someone (or more than one ...) here is/was involved in
building tube frames for race cars . I'm debating building a trike rear end
to put on an older Honda CB750 , and need a bit of guidance ... my wife
wants to ride but doesn't like to lean .
Looks like the best-handling option is going to be unequal length A-frames
with CV jointed half shafts and dual inboard disc brakes . I'm undecided
about springing options , whether coil-over shocks , maybe a single
transverse leaf . Either option will require a torsion bar to control body
roll . Going to have to have an enclosed spider differential setup , with a
sprocket mounted for chain drive - maybe from an ATV ? Front suspension hubs
from a FWD car look like the cheapest option ...
And it all needs to fit into a 14 x 14 x 27 inch package , plus the width
of the A-frames , and the mounting points extending to the front to bolt it
to the M/C frame . I'm considering using 1" sq tube and 1x2" tube for the
frame members . I'd like to use the original swingarm and shock absorber
mount points , since they're designed to support the loads ... and I
haven'rt even begun to consider body work to cover it all .

I think you need to check out this page:

http://reversetrike.com/home.html

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim Wescott wrote:
On 10/03/2010 06:06 AM, Snag wrote:
I seem to recall someone (or more than one ...) here is/was
involved in building tube frames for race cars . I'm debating
building a trike rear end to put on an older Honda CB750 , and need
a bit of guidance ... my wife wants to ride but doesn't like to lean
. Looks like the best-handling option is going to be unequal
length A-frames with CV jointed half shafts and dual inboard disc
brakes . I'm undecided about springing options , whether coil-over
shocks , maybe a single transverse leaf . Either option will require
a torsion bar to control body roll . Going to have to have an
enclosed spider differential setup , with a sprocket mounted for
chain drive - maybe from an ATV ? Front suspension hubs from a FWD
car look like the cheapest option ... And it all needs to fit
into a 14 x 14 x 27 inch package , plus the width of the A-frames ,
and the mounting points extending to the front to bolt it to the M/C
frame . I'm considering using 1" sq tube and 1x2" tube for the frame
members . I'd like to use the original swingarm and shock absorber
mount points , since they're designed to support the loads ... and I
haven'rt even begun to consider body work to cover it all .

I think you need to check out this page:

http://reversetrike.com/home.html

--

Tim Wescott

There's a new subfolder in my favorites folger , and it's called trike links
.. That one's in there ... alone so far , but I hope to change that !

--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

On 10/05/2010 03:22 PM, Snag wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On 10/03/2010 06:06 AM, Snag wrote:
I seem to recall someone (or more than one ...) here is/was
involved in building tube frames for race cars . I'm debating
building a trike rear end to put on an older Honda CB750 , and need
a bit of guidance ... my wife wants to ride but doesn't like to lean
. Looks like the best-handling option is going to be unequal
length A-frames with CV jointed half shafts and dual inboard disc
brakes . I'm undecided about springing options , whether coil-over
shocks , maybe a single transverse leaf . Either option will require
a torsion bar to control body roll . Going to have to have an
enclosed spider differential setup , with a sprocket mounted for
chain drive - maybe from an ATV ? Front suspension hubs from a FWD
car look like the cheapest option ... And it all needs to fit
into a 14 x 14 x 27 inch package , plus the width of the A-frames ,
and the mounting points extending to the front to bolt it to the M/C
frame . I'm considering using 1" sq tube and 1x2" tube for the frame
members . I'd like to use the original swingarm and shock absorber
mount points , since they're designed to support the loads ... and I
haven'rt even begun to consider body work to cover it all .

I think you need to check out this page:

http://reversetrike.com/home.html

--

Tim Wescott

There's a new subfolder in my favorites folger , and it's called trike links
. That one's in there ... alone so far , but I hope to change that !

What I was really looking for was a site for a shop in Washington that
custom builds Morgan-inspired, Harley-powered trikes. They cost over
$40000 new, IIRC, and they are absolutely gorgeous. I was going to say
"don't show her this link!!!".

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html