On 2010-07-12, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
"Steve Lusardi" writes:

I also agree, but we have deindustrialized our economy. Our labor is
simply too expensive to be competitive with the Chinese. What you do
still see is CNC everywhere there is machining. The manual model shops
and short run ma & pa operations are long gone. They only exist with
the hobbiest and we are dying out as well. Just look at this NG. What
do we have, 2 dozen regulars left? If you survey those, I'll bet there
are not many below the age of 60. I'll be 66 this Wed.

While newsgroups in general are dying out, one of the major problems
this one has is the need to wade through mountains of political crap to
read an occasional machining post. Anybody still reading it for
machining is being really stubborn (yes, I'm including myself there).

And has a *very* active (and growing) killfile. (That's me. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2010-07-12, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2010-07-12, Ignoramus23418 wrote:
On 2010-07-12, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus23418 wrote:

Or a heat treating furnace?


How big or small? I'm looking for small.

It is small, I would say 24 inches wide and 30 inches deep.

Are those the external dimensions, or those of the internal
chamber?

external

I've got one (not for sale) which is about 12" or 14" on a side,
mounted on steel legs perhaps 8" which has an internal workspace about
the size of an anorexic brick. It easily makes it up to 1850 F in about
an hour, and with an Omega controller settles down smoothly at that
temperature with only about 1 degree F overshoot. It runs at about 7.7A
from a 120 VAC line.

Cool, this one is 4 kW from a 240v line (1 phase)

On 2010-07-12, Ade wrote:
did gone and wrote:

I also agree, but we have deindustrialized our economy. Our labor is simply too expensive to be competitive with the Chinese. What
you do still see is CNC everywhere there is machining. The manual model shops and short run ma & pa operations are long gone. They
only exist with the hobbiest and we are dying out as well. Just look at this NG. What do we have, 2 dozen regulars left? If you
survey those, I'll bet there are not many below the age of 60. I'll be 66 this Wed.

I'm 37 this year, I've not had my machines a year yet, so I'm right near
the bottom of the learning curve. I don't post here regularly, but I do
read regularly.

I only have a lathe & a vertical mill at the moment, but I'm enjoying
every minute (hmm, ALMOST every minute) of time I get on them. I can't
see me swapping to CNC anytime soon, despite a lifetime spent with
computers. I may _add_ a CNC milling machine at some point, but not
until I can afford to.

One place where CNC is really nice is in a lathe threading to a
shoulder. Yes, I can do it on the manual lathe, and do from time to
time. but the little CNC lathe takes the worry out of it -- and does
metric threading or inch threading at the flip of a switch. And -- no
need for a runout groove -- the tool simply retracts during the last
quarter turn to make a nice taper to the end thread. It is especially
nice when doing internal threads to a shoulder, though I do those on the
manual machine as well. The CNC is a 5" swing, and the manual is 12".
:-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 13 Jul 2010 00:19:53 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2010-07-12, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
"Steve Lusardi" writes:

I also agree, but we have deindustrialized our economy. Our labor is
simply too expensive to be competitive with the Chinese. What you do
still see is CNC everywhere there is machining. The manual model shops
and short run ma & pa operations are long gone. They only exist with
the hobbiest and we are dying out as well. Just look at this NG. What
do we have, 2 dozen regulars left? If you survey those, I'll bet there
are not many below the age of 60. I'll be 66 this Wed.

While newsgroups in general are dying out, one of the major problems
this one has is the need to wade through mountains of political crap to
read an occasional machining post. Anybody still reading it for
machining is being really stubborn (yes, I'm including myself there).

And has a *very* active (and growing) killfile. (That's me. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

Likewise. I waste too much time on here as it is. Although, until I
get the shop built, I can't do that much. My handicapped son's
addition and my shop are submitted to the county right now. We'll see
how it goes with the poa.

Pete Keillor

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:53:00 -0500, Ignoramus23418
wrote the following:

On 2010-07-12, Larry Jaques wrote:
Im also rather fascinated by the prices....some of which have gone UP,
rather than down. Im not sure why. Are the sellers simply trying to
make a living off of each piece (mostly dealers) or have they given up
on selling and are trying enmass to raise the price of items?

Very simple. eBay reduced the price to list items (even if they do not
sell) and raised the fees for sold items. So, people are responding by
jacking up the prices and listing unsellable garbage. I despise all
that and try to list as little on eBay as possible.

Want a 15 HP 230v Baldor H2 VFD (single phase capable)? Or a 3 HP
Baldor grinder with dust collector and stand? Or a heat treating furnace?

Bingo, they're trying to make a few years' living off each piece sold.
I've never seen good deals on there.

You did not look deeply enough. I once bought an impact wrench for
$45, that I sold for $1,500 (and likely it was worth more).

Your impact was a one-in-a-million chance. Auction lots that you buy
are usually at better deals, when they're not outrageously overbid.

I've made 390 purchases on eBay and have been happy with nearly all of
them, maybe 386. But I haven't bought any machinery. Only hand tools,
books, gadgets, implements, software (new), hardware (new), and
miskelelaneous household goodies. Damnear all of them were between 5
and 30 percent of their dollar value. The reason I don't buy from
"dealers" is that many ask retail + prices on used crap. Some dealers
take a wire brush to everything, spray paint everything, and sell it
as a factory refurbished model in excellent shape. Screw them!


Like..come on..$275 for a verticle vernier height gage, without even a
dial indicator on it...geeze. Ive been picking them up for $20 in the
wooden cases...

Can you say "eBay anteek"? I knew you could.


**** eBay.

No, **** elitist eBayers who gouge.

--

EXPLETIVE: A balm, usually applied verbally in hindsight,
which somehow eases those pains and indignities following
our every deficiency in foresight.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:26:13 -0400, John Husvar
wrote the following:

In article .com,
"Pete C." wrote:

Steve Lusardi wrote:

I also agree, but we have deindustrialized our economy. Our labor is simply
too expensive to be competitive with the Chinese. What
you do still see is CNC everywhere there is machining. The manual model
shops and short run ma & pa operations are long gone. They
only exist with the hobbiest and we are dying out as well. Just look at
this NG. What do we have, 2 dozen regulars left? If you
survey those, I'll bet there are not many below the age of 60. I'll be 66
this Wed.
Steve

I'm 40.

Young fart.


Shucks, I've been married longer than that.

Our 42nd tomorrow.

Olde Farte. Congrats, John +1.

--

EXPLETIVE: A balm, usually applied verbally in hindsight,
which somehow eases those pains and indignities following
our every deficiency in foresight.

On 13 Jul 2010 00:19:53 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote the following:

On 2010-07-12, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
"Steve Lusardi" writes:

I also agree, but we have deindustrialized our economy. Our labor is
simply too expensive to be competitive with the Chinese. What you do
still see is CNC everywhere there is machining. The manual model shops
and short run ma & pa operations are long gone. They only exist with
the hobbiest and we are dying out as well. Just look at this NG. What
do we have, 2 dozen regulars left? If you survey those, I'll bet there
are not many below the age of 60. I'll be 66 this Wed.

While newsgroups in general are dying out, one of the major problems
this one has is the need to wade through mountains of political crap to
read an occasional machining post. Anybody still reading it for
machining is being really stubborn (yes, I'm including myself there).

And has a *very* active (and growing) killfile. (That's me. :-)

Amen to that.

And, DoN. You're not a regular, you're irregular.


--

EXPLETIVE: A balm, usually applied verbally in hindsight,
which somehow eases those pains and indignities following
our every deficiency in foresight.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:45:23 -0400, Brian Lawson
wrote:

Hey Gunner,

You won't get one of those for 99 cents, but there is one at 2:45 EDT
July 12, with a starting at $199.95 and no bids as yet

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cadillac-Gage-Co-19380-Pla-Chek-Height-Gage-/150464912694?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&ha sh=item2308685d36


I missed one last month for $32.25

Shrug

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

ps....whatcha want that for??

Because my existing Cadillac gage is 30" tall and weighs a freaking ton.

Gunner



XXXXXXXXXXXXXX


On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 02:36:17 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Ive been browsing Ebay...Ive been looking for a 12" Cadillac height
gage...and of the 300+ items for sale...there are about (7) bidders.
And those are bidding on the .99c items

We are not doing very well in manufacturing...are we?

Sigh

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:53:00 -0500, Ignoramus23418
wrote:

ant a 15 HP 230v Baldor H2 VFD (single phase capable)?

How much?

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

In article , lid wrote:
On 13 Jul 2010 00:19:53 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote the following:

On 2010-07-12, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
"Steve Lusardi" writes:

I also agree, but we have deindustrialized our economy. Our labor is
simply too expensive to be competitive with the Chinese. What you do
still see is CNC everywhere there is machining. The manual model shops
and short run ma & pa operations are long gone. They only exist with
the hobbiest and we are dying out as well. Just look at this NG. What
do we have, 2 dozen regulars left? If you survey those, I'll bet there
are not many below the age of 60. I'll be 66 this Wed.

While newsgroups in general are dying out, one of the major problems
this one has is the need to wade through mountains of political crap to
read an occasional machining post. Anybody still reading it for
machining is being really stubborn (yes, I'm including myself there).

And has a *very* active (and growing) killfile. (That's me. :-)

Amen to that.

And, DoN. You're not a regular, you're irregular.

Prune juice will take care of that. DAMHIKT.

On 2010-07-13, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:53:00 -0500, Ignoramus23418
wrote the following:

On 2010-07-12, Larry Jaques wrote:
Im also rather fascinated by the prices....some of which have gone UP,
rather than down. Im not sure why. Are the sellers simply trying to
make a living off of each piece (mostly dealers) or have they given up
on selling and are trying enmass to raise the price of items?

Very simple. eBay reduced the price to list items (even if they do not
sell) and raised the fees for sold items. So, people are responding by
jacking up the prices and listing unsellable garbage. I despise all
that and try to list as little on eBay as possible.

Want a 15 HP 230v Baldor H2 VFD (single phase capable)? Or a 3 HP
Baldor grinder with dust collector and stand? Or a heat treating furnace?

Bingo, they're trying to make a few years' living off each piece sold.
I've never seen good deals on there.

You did not look deeply enough. I once bought an impact wrench for
$45, that I sold for $1,500 (and likely it was worth more).

Your impact was a one-in-a-million chance. Auction lots that you buy
are usually at better deals, when they're not outrageously overbid.

My impact was not the only one. I once bought a huge crate of
Bridgeport stuff for $45. of course I did not have a Bridgeport
then. TIG welder for $10.

Of course, eBay now works hard to kick out one-of-a-kind-item sellers
like myself, so lately things were not as good on ebay.

On auction front, I recently bought a working Baldor H2 15 HP 230v VFD
for $20. (just tested it 10 minutes ago).

I've made 390 purchases on eBay and have been happy with nearly all of
them, maybe 386. But I haven't bought any machinery. Only hand tools,
books, gadgets, implements, software (new), hardware (new), and
miskelelaneous household goodies. Damnear all of them were between 5
and 30 percent of their dollar value. The reason I don't buy from
"dealers" is that many ask retail + prices on used crap. Some dealers
take a wire brush to everything, spray paint everything, and sell it
as a factory refurbished model in excellent shape. Screw them!


Yep.


Like..come on..$275 for a verticle vernier height gage, without even a
dial indicator on it...geeze. Ive been picking them up for $20 in the
wooden cases...

Can you say "eBay anteek"? I knew you could.


**** eBay.

No, **** elitist eBayers who gouge.


And **** eBay who pushes out everyone else.

i

On 2010-07-13, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:53:00 -0500, Ignoramus23418
wrote:

ant a 15 HP 230v Baldor H2 VFD (single phase capable)?

How much?

$350

I expect to get $500 on ebay.

Even 460v 10 HP H2 units sell for over $250.

And this is a 230v, single phase capable VFD.

i

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:40:24 -0500, Ignoramus15939
wrote:

On 2010-07-13, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:53:00 -0500, Ignoramus23418
wrote:

ant a 15 HP 230v Baldor H2 VFD (single phase capable)?

How much?

$350

Good price.

I expect to get $500 on ebay.

Good luck

Even 460v 10 HP H2 units sell for over $250.

And this is a 230v, single phase capable VFD.

Lots of buyers out there?

Gunner


i

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 2010-07-13, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:40:24 -0500, Ignoramus15939
wrote:

On 2010-07-13, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:53:00 -0500, Ignoramus23418
wrote:

ant a 15 HP 230v Baldor H2 VFD (single phase capable)?

How much?

$350

Good price.

I expect to get $500 on ebay.

Good luck

Even 460v 10 HP H2 units sell for over $250.

And this is a 230v, single phase capable VFD.

Lots of buyers out there?

I will let you know what it fetched.

i

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:51:28 -0500, Ignoramus15939
wrote:

On 2010-07-13, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:40:24 -0500, Ignoramus15939
wrote:

On 2010-07-13, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:53:00 -0500, Ignoramus23418
wrote:

ant a 15 HP 230v Baldor H2 VFD (single phase capable)?

How much?

$350

Good price.

I expect to get $500 on ebay.

Good luck

Even 460v 10 HP H2 units sell for over $250.

And this is a 230v, single phase capable VFD.

Lots of buyers out there?

I will let you know what it fetched.

i

Good luck!

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:35:54 -0500, Ignoramus15939
wrote the following:

On 2010-07-13, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:53:00 -0500, Ignoramus23418
wrote the following:

On 2010-07-12, Larry Jaques wrote:
Im also rather fascinated by the prices....some of which have gone UP,
rather than down. Im not sure why. Are the sellers simply trying to
make a living off of each piece (mostly dealers) or have they given up
on selling and are trying enmass to raise the price of items?

Very simple. eBay reduced the price to list items (even if they do not
sell) and raised the fees for sold items. So, people are responding by
jacking up the prices and listing unsellable garbage. I despise all
that and try to list as little on eBay as possible.

Want a 15 HP 230v Baldor H2 VFD (single phase capable)? Or a 3 HP
Baldor grinder with dust collector and stand? Or a heat treating furnace?

Bingo, they're trying to make a few years' living off each piece sold.
I've never seen good deals on there.

You did not look deeply enough. I once bought an impact wrench for
$45, that I sold for $1,500 (and likely it was worth more).

Your impact was a one-in-a-million chance. Auction lots that you buy
are usually at better deals, when they're not outrageously overbid.

My impact was not the only one. I once bought a huge crate of
Bridgeport stuff for $45. of course I did not have a Bridgeport
then. TIG welder for $10.

Right, and we've both worked very hard to find the great deals left on
that venue.


Of course, eBay now works hard to kick out one-of-a-kind-item sellers
like myself, so lately things were not as good on ebay.

I know, what DOLTS they are for that. The arrogant, silly asses are
screwing the pooch, slaying the golden goose which brought them their
fame and fortune.


**** eBay.

No, **** elitist eBayers who gouge.


And **** eBay who pushes out everyone else.

Yeah, we can think that, but we still go back to 'em while we play out
the love/hate relationship...until the goose's feathers are all that's
left. sigh

--

EXPLETIVE: A balm, usually applied verbally in hindsight,
which somehow eases those pains and indignities following
our every deficiency in foresight.

But Don . . . . If you put in as much time perfecting your manual craftsmanship as you have done
learning the clerical side of CNC, then you'd be the Leonardo DiGucci of the machinery world.

Bob Swinney

"Steve Lusardi" on Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:45:36
+0200 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
I also agree, but we have deindustrialized our economy. Our labor is simply too expensive to be competitive with the Chinese.

We're trying to compete with the Chinese on their terms. The US,
last I heard, was still the leader in productivity: how much widget
produced per hour/buck.

What you do still see is CNC everywhere there is machining. The manual model shops and short run ma & pa operations are long gone.

Manual shops, of all sorts (machinist, cabinetry, clothing,
leatherwork, blacksmithing, etc), are on the decline, and those that
are "doing well" are "boutique", otherwise it doesn't pay. Back in
tech school, I was working on a "project" and talking with the
instructor (A Manufacturing Engineer), said "If I was doing this for
production, I'd set it up differently". But that is the difference
between a production set up, and a one time knock off.
The real problem (tm) is that far too many "kids" believe the only
way to make any money is to go to college and get a Good Job. Maybe
so, but good luck doing that. How many people dump 'the rat race' of
the "good job" in order to go do something they like better.
Remember the joke about the surgeon getting the bill from the
plumber, and saying "I don't make that much an hour!" to which the
plumber replies, "neither did I when I was a surgeon."

They
only exist with the hobbiest and we are dying out as well. Just look at this NG. What do we have, 2 dozen regulars left? If you
survey those, I'll bet there are not many below the age of 60. I'll be 66 this Wed.

I'm 55, and I started in my forties.
Steve

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!