What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:17:25 -0700, gunnerasch wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

I've never even turned a MIG rig on but can't you do the same as stick
welding and make several passes? Or does it have to be a single pass
sort of operation? Or, one pass is perfect, more is maybe?



Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

gunnerasch wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

Can you use flux core and no gas and do a little thicker than that?

Steve

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:17:25 -0700, gunnerasch wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

1/4" is a reach. I know a guy who can make very sound multipass welds
in 1/2" stock with one of these little boxes, as in welding door
hinges on a big truck, but he's a very skilled weldor and it took
him a while.

Even with consummate skill, it takes freakin' forever with 20% duty
cycle. If you don't smoke, you're likely to start just to have
something to do while the box cools. That's after the first three
waits when whatever you did during those times quit working for a
while.

The practical limits for sound welds are 3/16" with fluxcore, 1/8"
mit gaz with ordinary skill and some patience.

stryped wrote:
What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.


I have .035 cored wire in mine (no gas).
Most metal has been 1/8" with some 3/16" singel pass.
1/4 would probably need another pass.
Anything beyond that would for sure need multiple passes.
--

Richard Lamb

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 11:54:27 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:17:25 -0700, gunnerasch wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

I've never even turned a MIG rig on but can't you do the same as stick
welding and make several passes? Or does it have to be a single pass
sort of operation? Or, one pass is perfect, more is maybe?

Ayup.. you can indeed do multiples..but....the more layers you put
on..the more likely you are to get bad fusion of one or more welds. Its
of course best to do 1 base, where you are fusing the two base metals
with one single bead. Two more is pushing it..when you cant get enough
heat to fuse all 3 beads AND the base metals to fuze together. Its not
like glue, where you are sticking the surfaces together..welding is
intended to actually merge deep into the base metals. Oil field pipe
welding for example...they generally fuse the bottom of the groove with
6010 for deep penetration of both pieces of pipe, and then finish with
7010 for a clean, neat finish bead that doesnt hang on stuff, is smooth
and penetrates all three surfaces..both pipes and the top of the 6010
bead. Layers are ok..if you can get good fusion of the whole thing..but
with a smaller welder..they simply cant get hot enough to get fusion of
more and more metal as you add it. Chuckle..its a bit different than
using Silicone to fill in a groove or a crack. Which is what the issue
is when you are welding thick metals with a small welder. You are sooner
or later, going to simply be putting in a layer that might be
pretty..but really hasnt penetrated anything.

I learned that the hard way...with a spare tire carrier and a 110vt mig,
once upon a time. Its been mentioned here before a time or
two....cringe.

Gunner




Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:33:02 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


gunnerasch wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

Can you use flux core and no gas and do a little thicker than that?

Steve

Id have to say....no. Unless you simply want to do a pretty job that
has no strength. They simply cant put out enough heat to merge your
weldments.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 00:45:28 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:17:25 -0700, gunnerasch wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

1/4" is a reach. I know a guy who can make very sound multipass welds
in 1/2" stock with one of these little boxes, as in welding door
hinges on a big truck, but he's a very skilled weldor and it took
him a while.

Even with consummate skill, it takes freakin' forever with 20% duty
cycle. If you don't smoke, you're likely to start just to have
something to do while the box cools. That's after the first three
waits when whatever you did during those times quit working for a
while.

The practical limits for sound welds are 3/16" with fluxcore, 1/8"
mit gaz with ordinary skill and some patience.


Oddly enough..Ive seldom run into the duty cycle issue with the Weldpak.
But then, I dont use it ALL that much for pushing the edge. Ive been
using it recently to weld UniStrut to beams, end on, to hang conduit
from. Works fine. And its small enough to stand with it, on a pallet,
on a forklift, 15' above the floor.

The new to me Hobart 175 would work better..but..shrug..there isnt any
220 in the building yet. And if I really needed it..Id simply bring
over the Ranger 9. and run the Unistrut with stick.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 04:27:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote the following:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 00:45:28 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:17:25 -0700, gunnerasch wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

1/4" is a reach. I know a guy who can make very sound multipass welds
in 1/2" stock with one of these little boxes, as in welding door
hinges on a big truck, but he's a very skilled weldor and it took
him a while.

Even with consummate skill, it takes freakin' forever with 20% duty
cycle. If you don't smoke, you're likely to start just to have
something to do while the box cools. That's after the first three
waits when whatever you did during those times quit working for a
while.

The practical limits for sound welds are 3/16" with fluxcore, 1/8"
mit gaz with ordinary skill and some patience.


Oddly enough..Ive seldom run into the duty cycle issue with the Weldpak.
But then, I dont use it ALL that much for pushing the edge. Ive been
using it recently to weld UniStrut to beams, end on, to hang conduit
from. Works fine. And its small enough to stand with it, on a pallet,
on a forklift, 15' above the floor.

Izzat a CAL OSHA-approved pallet, sir?


The new to me Hobart 175 would work better..but..shrug..there isnt any
220 in the building yet. And if I really needed it..Id simply bring
over the Ranger 9. and run the Unistrut with stick.

I put 3 runs of 240V in my shop when I moved in, so I could swing by
in July and pick that ugly, old, useless, little Hobart to get it out
of your way if you like, Gunner. Say the word!

--
Peace of mind is that mental condition in which you have accepted the worst.
-- Lin Yutang

On 2010-06-23, cavelamb wrote:
stryped wrote:
What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.


I have .035 cored wire in mine (no gas).
Most metal has been 1/8" with some 3/16" singel pass.
1/4 would probably need another pass.
Anything beyond that would for sure need multiple passes.

I would think that for a similar price, one could get a Lincoln
tombstone and make great welds with 7018AC, welding any thickness and
getting great fusion every time. Plus a tombstone has better duty
cycle. I really do not see the point of those weldpaks.

i
who used a tombstone welder once and was impressed.

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 06:44:16 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 04:27:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote the following:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 00:45:28 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:17:25 -0700, gunnerasch wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

1/4" is a reach. I know a guy who can make very sound multipass welds
in 1/2" stock with one of these little boxes, as in welding door
hinges on a big truck, but he's a very skilled weldor and it took
him a while.

Even with consummate skill, it takes freakin' forever with 20% duty
cycle. If you don't smoke, you're likely to start just to have
something to do while the box cools. That's after the first three
waits when whatever you did during those times quit working for a
while.

The practical limits for sound welds are 3/16" with fluxcore, 1/8"
mit gaz with ordinary skill and some patience.


Oddly enough..Ive seldom run into the duty cycle issue with the Weldpak.
But then, I dont use it ALL that much for pushing the edge. Ive been
using it recently to weld UniStrut to beams, end on, to hang conduit
from. Works fine. And its small enough to stand with it, on a pallet,
on a forklift, 15' above the floor.

Izzat a CAL OSHA-approved pallet, sir?

Oh but of course! Genuine Solid Oak too!!


The new to me Hobart 175 would work better..but..shrug..there isnt any
220 in the building yet. And if I really needed it..Id simply bring
over the Ranger 9. and run the Unistrut with stick.

I put 3 runs of 240V in my shop when I moved in, so I could swing by
in July and pick that ugly, old, useless, little Hobart to get it out
of your way if you like, Gunner. Say the word!

Ill certainly ponder on it. You need some welding gear? Whatcha need?

Its sorta a drug on the market at the moment in So. Cal. I can find you
something nice if you want.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:56:31 -0500, Ignoramus8716
wrote:

On 2010-06-23, cavelamb wrote:
stryped wrote:
What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.


I have .035 cored wire in mine (no gas).
Most metal has been 1/8" with some 3/16" singel pass.
1/4 would probably need another pass.
Anything beyond that would for sure need multiple passes.

I would think that for a similar price, one could get a Lincoln
tombstone and make great welds with 7018AC, welding any thickness and
getting great fusion every time. Plus a tombstone has better duty
cycle. I really do not see the point of those weldpaks.

Try welding something nice and thin with a stick.
Oh..it can be done..but most folks simply cant do it worth a ****.

Mig has its place. And its fast and easy for the average guy who hasnt
burned a few hundred pounds of rod or more.

And it has a short learning curve, and its not something you lose the
"touch" with easily.

And hauling a 400lb stick welder around tends to be a far different
problem than hauling a 50lb mig.

Oh dont get me wrong..stick certainly has its place, but so does MIG an
TIG

Gunner


i
who used a tombstone welder once and was impressed.

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 2010-06-23, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:56:31 -0500, Ignoramus8716
wrote:

On 2010-06-23, cavelamb wrote:
stryped wrote:
What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.


I have .035 cored wire in mine (no gas).
Most metal has been 1/8" with some 3/16" singel pass.
1/4 would probably need another pass.
Anything beyond that would for sure need multiple passes.

I would think that for a similar price, one could get a Lincoln
tombstone and make great welds with 7018AC, welding any thickness and
getting great fusion every time. Plus a tombstone has better duty
cycle. I really do not see the point of those weldpaks.

Try welding something nice and thin with a stick.
Oh..it can be done..but most folks simply cant do it worth a ****.

Mig has its place. And its fast and easy for the average guy who hasnt
burned a few hundred pounds of rod or more.

And it has a short learning curve, and its not something you lose the
"touch" with easily.

And hauling a 400lb stick welder around tends to be a far different
problem than hauling a 50lb mig.

A tombstone is more like 140 lbs. Can be easily moved with a hand
truck.

I weld thin things from time to time with 1/16" 6013. Works pretty
good though not aerospace quality.

i

Oh dont get me wrong..stick certainly has its place, but so does MIG an
TIG

Gunner


i
who used a tombstone welder once and was impressed.

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"Gunner Asch" wrote

Layers are ok..if you can get good fusion of the whole thing..but
with a smaller welder..they simply cant get hot enough to get fusion of
more and more metal as you add it. Chuckle..its a bit different than
using Silicone to fill in a groove or a crack. Which is what the issue
is when you are welding thick metals with a small welder. You are sooner
or later, going to simply be putting in a layer that might be
pretty..but really hasnt penetrated anything.

I learned that the hard way...with a spare tire carrier and a 110vt mig,
once upon a time. Its been mentioned here before a time or
two....cringe.

Gunner

Your episode with the spare is a classic in the annals of penetration and
fusion. I love to see all these guys who swear by MIG, and that they can
get proper fusion and penetration, or at least they have a buddy who can.

Then you go out to the weldment and put some torque on it, and bink! it pops
off. Or, as in your case, comes chasing you down the freeway.

A tombstone is more like 140 lbs. Can be easily moved with a hand
truck.

Don't even need the hand truck. If the $20 wheel kit is too rich for
your blood, a piece of rod stock and a couple of old mower wheels will
work. That's what the hole on bottom back corner of both sides is
for, running the rod through that holds the wheels. The loop handles
on the corner are good enough to run it around. If you need a foot on
the front, a chunk of 2x and a bolt will work...
--Glenn Lyford

On Jun 23, 9:56*am, Ignoramus8716


and I really do not see the point of those weldpaks.

i

Little Mig welders are useful. With inert gas they produce low
hydrogen welds and one does not have to chip any flux off. Some of
the the same advantages of a TIG welder , but much faster and one has
a free hand to hold parts in place .

I thought Ernie might comment on using one to weld thick metal. IIRC
he welded some 1 inch plate with a 120 volt mig just to prove that he
could. But certainly not what one would use unless it was the only
welder available.

Dan

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:56:31 -0500, Ignoramus8716
wrote:

On 2010-06-23, cavelamb wrote:
stryped wrote:
What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.


I have .035 cored wire in mine (no gas).
Most metal has been 1/8" with some 3/16" singel pass.
1/4 would probably need another pass.
Anything beyond that would for sure need multiple passes.

I would think that for a similar price, one could get a Lincoln
tombstone and make great welds with 7018AC, welding any thickness and
getting great fusion every time. Plus a tombstone has better duty
cycle. I really do not see the point of those weldpaks.

i
who used a tombstone welder once and was impressed.

The little 110-volt MIG boxes are excellent for thin metal. In
particular, they are invaluable for autobody work and rust work. At a
local shop where they restore antique automobiles, there's a Lincoln
SP125+ at every single work station.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:56:31 -0500, Ignoramus8716
wrote:

On 2010-06-23, cavelamb wrote:
stryped wrote:
What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.


I have .035 cored wire in mine (no gas).
Most metal has been 1/8" with some 3/16" singel pass.
1/4 would probably need another pass.
Anything beyond that would for sure need multiple passes.

I would think that for a similar price, one could get a Lincoln
tombstone and make great welds with 7018AC, welding any thickness and
getting great fusion every time. Plus a tombstone has better duty
cycle. I really do not see the point of those weldpaks.

i
who used a tombstone welder once and was impressed.

The little 110-volt MIG boxes are excellent for thin metal. In
particular, they are invaluable for autobody work and rust work. At a
local shop where they restore antique automobiles, there's a Lincoln
SP125+ at every single work station.

I bumped up and got the 175+, and besides a cranky trigger, I love it. I
did finally buy a good doorbell pad to make a new trigger, but have yet to
put it on.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 04:18:44 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 11:54:27 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:17:25 -0700, gunnerasch wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

I've never even turned a MIG rig on but can't you do the same as stick
welding and make several passes? Or does it have to be a single pass
sort of operation? Or, one pass is perfect, more is maybe?

Ayup.. you can indeed do multiples..but....the more layers you put
on..the more likely you are to get bad fusion of one or more welds. Its
of course best to do 1 base, where you are fusing the two base metals
with one single bead. Two more is pushing it..when you cant get enough
heat to fuse all 3 beads AND the base metals to fuze together. Its not
like glue, where you are sticking the surfaces together..welding is
intended to actually merge deep into the base metals. Oil field pipe
welding for example...they generally fuse the bottom of the groove with
6010 for deep penetration of both pieces of pipe, and then finish with
7010 for a clean, neat finish bead that doesnt hang on stuff, is smooth
and penetrates all three surfaces..both pipes and the top of the 6010
bead. Layers are ok..if you can get good fusion of the whole thing..but
with a smaller welder..they simply cant get hot enough to get fusion of
more and more metal as you add it. Chuckle..its a bit different than
using Silicone to fill in a groove or a crack. Which is what the issue
is when you are welding thick metals with a small welder. You are sooner
or later, going to simply be putting in a layer that might be
pretty..but really hasnt penetrated anything.

I learned that the hard way...with a spare tire carrier and a 110vt mig,
once upon a time. Its been mentioned here before a time or
two....cringe.

Gunner


You are wrong if you are saying that second and third layers on a pipe
penetrate completely through any existing beads. they don't. They do
melt the bead directly below the one being done sufficiently to fuse
with it but they do not penetrate, or liquefy, the entire previous
weld. And yes, I've welded enough pipe and had enough welds x-rayed to
know what I'm talking about here.

I've seen them welding the 2 inch thick flame shields, hanging over
the side of a cliff, at Edwards AFB and they were certainly not
achieving complete penetration through the entire two inches of weld
when they made the top pass.

You seem to be saying that you can do multi-pass welding with MIG but
you have to be careful to get fusion, just as you do stick welding??

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

I'd say from my nearly 40 years of welding now that there would be no limit
to the thickness. Fusion, penetration, and sticking would be the only
problems. But you COULD "weld" it.

Steve ;-)

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

Oil field pipe
welding for example...they generally fuse the bottom of the groove with
6010 for deep penetration of both pieces of pipe, and then finish with
7010 for a clean, neat finish bead that doesnt hang on stuff, is smooth
and penetrates all three surfaces..both pipes and the top of the 6010
bead.

I was on a lot of pipe jobs, and with the exception of the 54"OD 1/5" wall
that was done with an automated .072" FCAW and argon bug, it was ALL done
with 6010 or 6010 + on the root, and 7018 on the rest. This would be for
pipeline carrying crude and gas from offshore pipelines to onshore
refineries. I do not recall ever seeing a 7010 offshore. With a couple of
rare exceptions, it was 6010 and 7018.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
I was on a lot of pipe jobs, and with the exception of the 54"OD 1/5" wall
that was done with an automated .072" FCAW and argon bug, it was ALL done
with 6010 or 6010 + on the root, and 7018 on the rest.

Make that 1.5" wall .........

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:04:38 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:



What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

I'd say from my nearly 40 years of welding now that there would be no limit
to the thickness. Fusion, penetration, and sticking would be the only
problems. But you COULD "weld" it.

Steve ;-)

I'd agree with that if you'd said "it can be done" rather than "you
COULD ...". Depends on who "you" is.

I've only been welding for 35 years and I never did it for a living
like you have. Even so, I've no doubt that I could make a sound weld
in 3/4" steel with a 110 volt MIG box. But it would take all freakin'
afternoon to do it, so the only way I'd do that is if 110 volts was
only power available at the site and I didn't want to haul gas
bottles. The practical workshop range of those little boxes is from
24-gage (.025") up thru about 3/16" but I only use mine for .090 and
smaller. In that range, it's wonderful. For 1/8" and thicker I prefer
220-volt MIG, stick or TIG.

A very common misconception about welding is that strength depends
upon depth of fusion. It doesn't. Fusion is fusion. If the
workpiece metal under the deposit of new filler metal is melted,
regardless of depth, fusion has occurred.

For single-pass welding, fusion obviously must go to a depth of the
thickness of the workpiece, but in multipass welding each layer need
only fuse to the metal beneath it.

An experienced welder can get fusion even on thick stock with a small
MIG because he knows to watch and manage a puddle. Merely melting
metal onto other metal does not guarantee fusion any more than
spilling molten solder onto sheetmetal makes a joint. It just makes a
splat that is easily peeled off.

Fusion of the workpiece metal usually does happen, whether the
operator knows it or not, when stick or MIG machines are run under
recommended conditions with recommended filler size for given
workpiece thickness. Nobrainer welding can work if newbies will
follow the directions.

On 2010-06-24, Steve B wrote:

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
I was on a lot of pipe jobs, and with the exception of the 54"OD 1/5" wall
that was done with an automated .072" FCAW and argon bug, it was ALL done
with 6010 or 6010 + on the root, and 7018 on the rest.

Make that 1.5" wall .........

So, nowadays, are more pipes welded with automatic bugs? It would seem
to be the way to go, giving more repeatable results and less labor costs.

i

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 09:48:49 -0500, Ignoramus8716
wrote:


And hauling a 400lb stick welder around tends to be a far different
problem than hauling a 50lb mig.

A tombstone is more like 140 lbs. Can be easily moved with a hand
truck.

You are talking about the 20% duty cycle sheetmetal box that Lincoln
sells, right? Home depot gets $375 for them. Of course..they are only
20%..but for short welds of uncertain quality..they are adequate.


I weld thin things from time to time with 1/16" 6013. Works pretty
good though not aerospace quality.


Ill send you some .060 sheet metal and you can weld it up in a tube for
me.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:03:09 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote

Layers are ok..if you can get good fusion of the whole thing..but
with a smaller welder..they simply cant get hot enough to get fusion of
more and more metal as you add it. Chuckle..its a bit different than
using Silicone to fill in a groove or a crack. Which is what the issue
is when you are welding thick metals with a small welder. You are sooner
or later, going to simply be putting in a layer that might be
pretty..but really hasnt penetrated anything.

I learned that the hard way...with a spare tire carrier and a 110vt mig,
once upon a time. Its been mentioned here before a time or
two....cringe.

Gunner

Your episode with the spare is a classic in the annals of penetration and
fusion. I love to see all these guys who swear by MIG, and that they can
get proper fusion and penetration, or at least they have a buddy who can.

Then you go out to the weldment and put some torque on it, and bink! it pops
off. Or, as in your case, comes chasing you down the freeway.


I actually saw another spare tire carrier have the same problem the
other day...and for the same reason. Fortunately his didnt come off
completely. But another couple miles and it would have.

But inspection showed just about ZIP penetration of the weldment. And
this on a nice big commercial dual axle trailer.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 07:32:56 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 04:18:44 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 11:54:27 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:17:25 -0700, gunnerasch wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

I've never even turned a MIG rig on but can't you do the same as stick
welding and make several passes? Or does it have to be a single pass
sort of operation? Or, one pass is perfect, more is maybe?

Ayup.. you can indeed do multiples..but....the more layers you put
on..the more likely you are to get bad fusion of one or more welds. Its
of course best to do 1 base, where you are fusing the two base metals
with one single bead. Two more is pushing it..when you cant get enough
heat to fuse all 3 beads AND the base metals to fuze together. Its not
like glue, where you are sticking the surfaces together..welding is
intended to actually merge deep into the base metals. Oil field pipe
welding for example...they generally fuse the bottom of the groove with
6010 for deep penetration of both pieces of pipe, and then finish with
7010 for a clean, neat finish bead that doesnt hang on stuff, is smooth
and penetrates all three surfaces..both pipes and the top of the 6010
bead. Layers are ok..if you can get good fusion of the whole thing..but
with a smaller welder..they simply cant get hot enough to get fusion of
more and more metal as you add it. Chuckle..its a bit different than
using Silicone to fill in a groove or a crack. Which is what the issue
is when you are welding thick metals with a small welder. You are sooner
or later, going to simply be putting in a layer that might be
pretty..but really hasnt penetrated anything.

I learned that the hard way...with a spare tire carrier and a 110vt mig,
once upon a time. Its been mentioned here before a time or
two....cringe.

Gunner


You are wrong if you are saying that second and third layers on a pipe
penetrate completely through any existing beads. they don't. They do
melt the bead directly below the one being done sufficiently to fuse
with it but they do not penetrate, or liquefy, the entire previous
weld. And yes, I've welded enough pipe and had enough welds x-rayed to
know what I'm talking about here.

I've seen them welding the 2 inch thick flame shields, hanging over
the side of a cliff, at Edwards AFB and they were certainly not
achieving complete penetration through the entire two inches of weld
when they made the top pass.

You seem to be saying that you can do multi-pass welding with MIG but
you have to be careful to get fusion, just as you do stick welding??

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

Not on 2" material.

Unless you have one BIG assed mig.

And yes.

Gunner


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:09:26 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


Oil field pipe
welding for example...they generally fuse the bottom of the groove with
6010 for deep penetration of both pieces of pipe, and then finish with
7010 for a clean, neat finish bead that doesnt hang on stuff, is smooth
and penetrates all three surfaces..both pipes and the top of the 6010
bead.

I was on a lot of pipe jobs, and with the exception of the 54"OD 1/5" wall
that was done with an automated .072" FCAW and argon bug, it was ALL done
with 6010 or 6010 + on the root, and 7018 on the rest. This would be for
pipeline carrying crude and gas from offshore pipelines to onshore
refineries. I do not recall ever seeing a 7010 offshore. With a couple of
rare exceptions, it was 6010 and 7018.

Ayup..that was a typo on my part.

Though I did find 20lbs of 7010 in my recent clean up of my welding
rods.

Same as 6010, but 70kpsi?

Gunner


Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.



One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:03:09 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote

Layers are ok..if you can get good fusion of the whole thing..but
with a smaller welder..they simply cant get hot enough to get fusion of
more and more metal as you add it. Chuckle..its a bit different than
using Silicone to fill in a groove or a crack. Which is what the issue
is when you are welding thick metals with a small welder. You are sooner
or later, going to simply be putting in a layer that might be
pretty..but really hasnt penetrated anything.

I learned that the hard way...with a spare tire carrier and a 110vt mig,
once upon a time. Its been mentioned here before a time or
two....cringe.

Gunner

Your episode with the spare is a classic in the annals of penetration and
fusion. I love to see all these guys who swear by MIG, and that they can
get proper fusion and penetration, or at least they have a buddy who can.

Then you go out to the weldment and put some torque on it, and bink! it pops
off. Or, as in your case, comes chasing you down the freeway.

You're cordially invited to torque my MIG welds at will.

Earlier this year I had to beef up some L's on my trailer. They're MIG
welded to the frame and the fenders, hold the fenders on. There are
two per fender, oriented at right angles so (theoretically) none
of them should bend in vibration while going down the road.

My neighbor usually has the trailer during the winter because he uses
it more than I do. When I went over to get it this spring, I noted
a bungee cord holding one fender in place. The bracket had cracked in
the bend. All welds were sound after 10 years in service, the metal
had cracked nowhere near a weld.

I made some heavier brackets, laid them in place and buttered them in
with the 220-volt MIG I have now.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:03:24 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 07:32:56 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 04:18:44 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 11:54:27 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:17:25 -0700, gunnerasch wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

I've never even turned a MIG rig on but can't you do the same as stick
welding and make several passes? Or does it have to be a single pass
sort of operation? Or, one pass is perfect, more is maybe?

Ayup.. you can indeed do multiples..but....the more layers you put
on..the more likely you are to get bad fusion of one or more welds. Its
of course best to do 1 base, where you are fusing the two base metals
with one single bead. Two more is pushing it..when you cant get enough
heat to fuse all 3 beads AND the base metals to fuze together. Its not
like glue, where you are sticking the surfaces together..welding is
intended to actually merge deep into the base metals. Oil field pipe
welding for example...they generally fuse the bottom of the groove with
6010 for deep penetration of both pieces of pipe, and then finish with
7010 for a clean, neat finish bead that doesnt hang on stuff, is smooth
and penetrates all three surfaces..both pipes and the top of the 6010
bead. Layers are ok..if you can get good fusion of the whole thing..but
with a smaller welder..they simply cant get hot enough to get fusion of
more and more metal as you add it. Chuckle..its a bit different than
using Silicone to fill in a groove or a crack. Which is what the issue
is when you are welding thick metals with a small welder. You are sooner
or later, going to simply be putting in a layer that might be
pretty..but really hasnt penetrated anything.

I learned that the hard way...with a spare tire carrier and a 110vt mig,
once upon a time. Its been mentioned here before a time or
two....cringe.

Gunner


You are wrong if you are saying that second and third layers on a pipe
penetrate completely through any existing beads. they don't. They do
melt the bead directly below the one being done sufficiently to fuse
with it but they do not penetrate, or liquefy, the entire previous
weld. And yes, I've welded enough pipe and had enough welds x-rayed to
know what I'm talking about here.

I've seen them welding the 2 inch thick flame shields, hanging over
the side of a cliff, at Edwards AFB and they were certainly not
achieving complete penetration through the entire two inches of weld
when they made the top pass.

You seem to be saying that you can do multi-pass welding with MIG but
you have to be careful to get fusion, just as you do stick welding??

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

Not on 2" material.

Unless you have one BIG assed mig.

I disagree. I suggest that after thickness exceeds a fairly low
threshold, perhaps 1/8" in steel, more thickness doesn't matter
because there's enough thermal resistance between heat delivery site
and cold mass in that (and greater) thickness to allow formation of a
puddle in the workpiece with the power delivered by a small MIG. It
might take a bazillion passes to weld 2" to 2" but puddle-in-workpiece
= fusion = sound weld. Filler-puddle-on-workpiece = pretty-failure.

Penetration is only an issue for single-pass welds and production rate
with multi-pass welds. BTW, when I reviewed this viewpoint with Ernie
years ago on this forum, he concurred.

I'm not gonna mess with this while the lake is open water, but after
snow flies an experiment and demo might be in order. You supply the
test coupons, I don't have any 2" stock. I think I do have some 1"
bar.

Consider this: with successive passes, try building a "bead" 2" high
with your machine of choice. I can attest that I can do that with my
MIG because I did exactly that while conducting magnetic field
measurements before my ICD implant. I then put the base metal in a
vise and pounded the living **** out of the bead sideways with a 4 lb
hammer. It bent, but it didn't break or peel away. It was
effectively one globby chunk of steel growing out of the 1/4" stock I
started with.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:07:52 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:03:24 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 07:32:56 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 04:18:44 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 11:54:27 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:17:25 -0700, gunnerasch wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110 unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

I've never even turned a MIG rig on but can't you do the same as stick
welding and make several passes? Or does it have to be a single pass
sort of operation? Or, one pass is perfect, more is maybe?

Ayup.. you can indeed do multiples..but....the more layers you put
on..the more likely you are to get bad fusion of one or more welds. Its
of course best to do 1 base, where you are fusing the two base metals
with one single bead. Two more is pushing it..when you cant get enough
heat to fuse all 3 beads AND the base metals to fuze together. Its not
like glue, where you are sticking the surfaces together..welding is
intended to actually merge deep into the base metals. Oil field pipe
welding for example...they generally fuse the bottom of the groove with
6010 for deep penetration of both pieces of pipe, and then finish with
7010 for a clean, neat finish bead that doesnt hang on stuff, is smooth
and penetrates all three surfaces..both pipes and the top of the 6010
bead. Layers are ok..if you can get good fusion of the whole thing..but
with a smaller welder..they simply cant get hot enough to get fusion of
more and more metal as you add it. Chuckle..its a bit different than
using Silicone to fill in a groove or a crack. Which is what the issue
is when you are welding thick metals with a small welder. You are sooner
or later, going to simply be putting in a layer that might be
pretty..but really hasnt penetrated anything.

I learned that the hard way...with a spare tire carrier and a 110vt mig,
once upon a time. Its been mentioned here before a time or
two....cringe.

Gunner


You are wrong if you are saying that second and third layers on a pipe
penetrate completely through any existing beads. they don't. They do
melt the bead directly below the one being done sufficiently to fuse
with it but they do not penetrate, or liquefy, the entire previous
weld. And yes, I've welded enough pipe and had enough welds x-rayed to
know what I'm talking about here.

I've seen them welding the 2 inch thick flame shields, hanging over
the side of a cliff, at Edwards AFB and they were certainly not
achieving complete penetration through the entire two inches of weld
when they made the top pass.

You seem to be saying that you can do multi-pass welding with MIG but
you have to be careful to get fusion, just as you do stick welding??

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

Not on 2" material.

Unless you have one BIG assed mig.

I disagree. I suggest that after thickness exceeds a fairly low
threshold, perhaps 1/8" in steel, more thickness doesn't matter
because there's enough thermal resistance between heat delivery site
and cold mass in that (and greater) thickness to allow formation of a
puddle in the workpiece with the power delivered by a small MIG. It
might take a bazillion passes to weld 2" to 2" but puddle-in-workpiece
= fusion = sound weld. Filler-puddle-on-workpiece = pretty-failure.

Penetration is only an issue for single-pass welds and production rate
with multi-pass welds. BTW, when I reviewed this viewpoint with Ernie
years ago on this forum, he concurred.

I'm not gonna mess with this while the lake is open water, but after
snow flies an experiment and demo might be in order. You supply the
test coupons, I don't have any 2" stock. I think I do have some 1"
bar.

Consider this: with successive passes, try building a "bead" 2" high
with your machine of choice. I can attest that I can do that with my
MIG because I did exactly that while conducting magnetic field
measurements before my ICD implant. I then put the base metal in a
vise and pounded the living **** out of the bead sideways with a 4 lb
hammer. It bent, but it didn't break or peel away. It was
effectively one globby chunk of steel growing out of the 1/4" stock I
started with.

There really can't be much discussion about it as arc welding has
worked that way since the beginning. In multi pass pipe welding, for
example, you may make three passes. Root bead, hot pass and cover.
None of the beads except for the root pass penetrates to the inner
surface of the pipe and an x-ray film shows the weld as one single
layer of metal with no indication of how many passes were made to weld
it.

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:03:09 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote

Layers are ok..if you can get good fusion of the whole thing..but
with a smaller welder..they simply cant get hot enough to get fusion of
more and more metal as you add it. Chuckle..its a bit different than
using Silicone to fill in a groove or a crack. Which is what the issue
is when you are welding thick metals with a small welder. You are sooner
or later, going to simply be putting in a layer that might be
pretty..but really hasnt penetrated anything.

I learned that the hard way...with a spare tire carrier and a 110vt mig,
once upon a time. Its been mentioned here before a time or
two....cringe.

Gunner

Your episode with the spare is a classic in the annals of penetration and
fusion. I love to see all these guys who swear by MIG, and that they can
get proper fusion and penetration, or at least they have a buddy who can.

Then you go out to the weldment and put some torque on it, and bink! it
pops
off. Or, as in your case, comes chasing you down the freeway.

You're cordially invited to torque my MIG welds at will.

Earlier this year I had to beef up some L's on my trailer. They're MIG
welded to the frame and the fenders, hold the fenders on. There are
two per fender, oriented at right angles so (theoretically) none
of them should bend in vibration while going down the road.

My neighbor usually has the trailer during the winter because he uses
it more than I do. When I went over to get it this spring, I noted
a bungee cord holding one fender in place. The bracket had cracked in
the bend. All welds were sound after 10 years in service, the metal
had cracked nowhere near a weld.

I made some heavier brackets, laid them in place and buttered them in
with the 220-volt MIG I have now.

IIRC, the original discussion was about a 110v. MIG. I have a 220, also,
and I believe like you do that I can crank that baby up, and my stuff will
stick. Still, when it goes over 1/4", out comes the 7018, and there's no
TinkerToy migging allowed. I can do MIG that will stick, I just prefer to
do a better weld with DCRP 7018.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:03:24 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 07:32:56 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 04:18:44 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 11:54:27 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:17:25 -0700, gunnerasch wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have
co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110
unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

I've never even turned a MIG rig on but can't you do the same as stick
welding and make several passes? Or does it have to be a single pass
sort of operation? Or, one pass is perfect, more is maybe?

Ayup.. you can indeed do multiples..but....the more layers you put
on..the more likely you are to get bad fusion of one or more welds. Its
of course best to do 1 base, where you are fusing the two base metals
with one single bead. Two more is pushing it..when you cant get enough
heat to fuse all 3 beads AND the base metals to fuze together. Its not
like glue, where you are sticking the surfaces together..welding is
intended to actually merge deep into the base metals. Oil field pipe
welding for example...they generally fuse the bottom of the groove with
6010 for deep penetration of both pieces of pipe, and then finish with
7010 for a clean, neat finish bead that doesnt hang on stuff, is smooth
and penetrates all three surfaces..both pipes and the top of the 6010
bead. Layers are ok..if you can get good fusion of the whole thing..but
with a smaller welder..they simply cant get hot enough to get fusion of
more and more metal as you add it. Chuckle..its a bit different than
using Silicone to fill in a groove or a crack. Which is what the issue
is when you are welding thick metals with a small welder. You are sooner
or later, going to simply be putting in a layer that might be
pretty..but really hasnt penetrated anything.

I learned that the hard way...with a spare tire carrier and a 110vt mig,
once upon a time. Its been mentioned here before a time or
two....cringe.

Gunner


You are wrong if you are saying that second and third layers on a pipe
penetrate completely through any existing beads. they don't. They do
melt the bead directly below the one being done sufficiently to fuse
with it but they do not penetrate, or liquefy, the entire previous
weld. And yes, I've welded enough pipe and had enough welds x-rayed to
know what I'm talking about here.

I've seen them welding the 2 inch thick flame shields, hanging over
the side of a cliff, at Edwards AFB and they were certainly not
achieving complete penetration through the entire two inches of weld
when they made the top pass.

You seem to be saying that you can do multi-pass welding with MIG but
you have to be careful to get fusion, just as you do stick welding??

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

Not on 2" material.

Unless you have one BIG assed mig.

I disagree. I suggest that after thickness exceeds a fairly low
threshold, perhaps 1/8" in steel, more thickness doesn't matter
because there's enough thermal resistance between heat delivery site
and cold mass in that (and greater) thickness to allow formation of a
puddle in the workpiece with the power delivered by a small MIG. It
might take a bazillion passes to weld 2" to 2" but puddle-in-workpiece
= fusion = sound weld. Filler-puddle-on-workpiece = pretty-failure.

Penetration is only an issue for single-pass welds and production rate
with multi-pass welds. BTW, when I reviewed this viewpoint with Ernie
years ago on this forum, he concurred.

I'm not gonna mess with this while the lake is open water, but after
snow flies an experiment and demo might be in order. You supply the
test coupons, I don't have any 2" stock. I think I do have some 1"
bar.

Consider this: with successive passes, try building a "bead" 2" high
with your machine of choice. I can attest that I can do that with my
MIG because I did exactly that while conducting magnetic field
measurements before my ICD implant. I then put the base metal in a
vise and pounded the living **** out of the bead sideways with a 4 lb
hammer. It bent, but it didn't break or peel away. It was
effectively one globby chunk of steel growing out of the 1/4" stock I
started with.

Most people use x rays when they want to properly assess a weld.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 21:00:27 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:03:09 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote

Layers are ok..if you can get good fusion of the whole thing..but
with a smaller welder..they simply cant get hot enough to get fusion of
more and more metal as you add it. Chuckle..its a bit different than
using Silicone to fill in a groove or a crack. Which is what the issue
is when you are welding thick metals with a small welder. You are sooner
or later, going to simply be putting in a layer that might be
pretty..but really hasnt penetrated anything.

I learned that the hard way...with a spare tire carrier and a 110vt mig,
once upon a time. Its been mentioned here before a time or
two....cringe.

Gunner

Your episode with the spare is a classic in the annals of penetration and
fusion. I love to see all these guys who swear by MIG, and that they can
get proper fusion and penetration, or at least they have a buddy who can.

Then you go out to the weldment and put some torque on it, and bink! it
pops
off. Or, as in your case, comes chasing you down the freeway.

You're cordially invited to torque my MIG welds at will.

Earlier this year I had to beef up some L's on my trailer. They're MIG
welded to the frame and the fenders, hold the fenders on. There are
two per fender, oriented at right angles so (theoretically) none
of them should bend in vibration while going down the road.

My neighbor usually has the trailer during the winter because he uses
it more than I do. When I went over to get it this spring, I noted
a bungee cord holding one fender in place. The bracket had cracked in
the bend. All welds were sound after 10 years in service, the metal
had cracked nowhere near a weld.

I made some heavier brackets, laid them in place and buttered them in
with the 220-volt MIG I have now.

IIRC, the original discussion was about a 110v. MIG. I have a 220, also,
and I believe like you do that I can crank that baby up, and my stuff will
stick. Still, when it goes over 1/4", out comes the 7018, and there's no
TinkerToy migging allowed. I can do MIG that will stick, I just prefer to
do a better weld with DCRP 7018.

Steve

Not much argument from here. Only reason for using a light tool for
a heavy job is if it's the only tool available. My threshold is
3/8", mostly because I about never have to weld anything thicker than
3/8" and my 220 MIG can do that quite respectably single-pass. I
don't like the smoke and slag of stick. I don't weld outdoors much
of the year in MN.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 21:02:23 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:03:24 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 07:32:56 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 04:18:44 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 11:54:27 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:17:25 -0700, gunnerasch wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

What is the thickest material a person can weld with this? I have
co2/
argon mix and .024 wire, but can use up to .035 wire. It is a 110
unit.

1/4".

If you go to straight CO2..you can go up to 3/8', but may have to make
2-3 passes.

Gunner, who has a Weldpak 100 as a judge

I've never even turned a MIG rig on but can't you do the same as stick
welding and make several passes? Or does it have to be a single pass
sort of operation? Or, one pass is perfect, more is maybe?

Ayup.. you can indeed do multiples..but....the more layers you put
on..the more likely you are to get bad fusion of one or more welds. Its
of course best to do 1 base, where you are fusing the two base metals
with one single bead. Two more is pushing it..when you cant get enough
heat to fuse all 3 beads AND the base metals to fuze together. Its not
like glue, where you are sticking the surfaces together..welding is
intended to actually merge deep into the base metals. Oil field pipe
welding for example...they generally fuse the bottom of the groove with
6010 for deep penetration of both pieces of pipe, and then finish with
7010 for a clean, neat finish bead that doesnt hang on stuff, is smooth
and penetrates all three surfaces..both pipes and the top of the 6010
bead. Layers are ok..if you can get good fusion of the whole thing..but
with a smaller welder..they simply cant get hot enough to get fusion of
more and more metal as you add it. Chuckle..its a bit different than
using Silicone to fill in a groove or a crack. Which is what the issue
is when you are welding thick metals with a small welder. You are sooner
or later, going to simply be putting in a layer that might be
pretty..but really hasnt penetrated anything.

I learned that the hard way...with a spare tire carrier and a 110vt mig,
once upon a time. Its been mentioned here before a time or
two....cringe.

Gunner


You are wrong if you are saying that second and third layers on a pipe
penetrate completely through any existing beads. they don't. They do
melt the bead directly below the one being done sufficiently to fuse
with it but they do not penetrate, or liquefy, the entire previous
weld. And yes, I've welded enough pipe and had enough welds x-rayed to
know what I'm talking about here.

I've seen them welding the 2 inch thick flame shields, hanging over
the side of a cliff, at Edwards AFB and they were certainly not
achieving complete penetration through the entire two inches of weld
when they made the top pass.

You seem to be saying that you can do multi-pass welding with MIG but
you have to be careful to get fusion, just as you do stick welding??

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

Not on 2" material.

Unless you have one BIG assed mig.

I disagree. I suggest that after thickness exceeds a fairly low
threshold, perhaps 1/8" in steel, more thickness doesn't matter
because there's enough thermal resistance between heat delivery site
and cold mass in that (and greater) thickness to allow formation of a
puddle in the workpiece with the power delivered by a small MIG. It
might take a bazillion passes to weld 2" to 2" but puddle-in-workpiece
= fusion = sound weld. Filler-puddle-on-workpiece = pretty-failure.

Penetration is only an issue for single-pass welds and production rate
with multi-pass welds. BTW, when I reviewed this viewpoint with Ernie
years ago on this forum, he concurred.

I'm not gonna mess with this while the lake is open water, but after
snow flies an experiment and demo might be in order. You supply the
test coupons, I don't have any 2" stock. I think I do have some 1"
bar.

Consider this: with successive passes, try building a "bead" 2" high
with your machine of choice. I can attest that I can do that with my
MIG because I did exactly that while conducting magnetic field
measurements before my ICD implant. I then put the base metal in a
vise and pounded the living **** out of the bead sideways with a 4 lb
hammer. It bent, but it didn't break or peel away. It was
effectively one globby chunk of steel growing out of the 1/4" stock I
started with.

Most people use x rays when they want to properly assess a weld.

Steve

No they don't. Some professionals might. I didn't see X-ray
machines in some pretty good welding shops I've visited. I know more
amateur welders than pros, most of them able to make sound welds, none
of us have X-ray kit available.