I want to make some small diameter rod racks for spices. I think I'll use
1/4" or less square and round bar. I'm going to twist the round, and
square, making spirals, geometric designs, freehand stuff, then bend it to
form the rack. Mainly kitchen spice racks, knife holders, holders for
containers, etc.

I have a Lincoln 175 SP+, and can do some HOT spot welds. I don't want to
do very much weld metal deposit to keep from warping.

I have been interested in what it takes to put two pieces of bar together,
and zap them and melt them like the shopping carts are made. They come up
so beautifully fused and even.

Is there a resistance welding device made, or can I do it with just a
welding machine with a momentary blast of current? As with CadWelding
studs, is there any type of powder available that I can put in the joint
that would melt when it arcs?

Or just keep it simple and tack it hot?

Steve

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 23:47:01 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

I want to make some small diameter rod racks for spices. I think I'll use
1/4" or less square and round bar. I'm going to twist the round, and
square, making spirals, geometric designs, freehand stuff, then bend it to
form the rack. Mainly kitchen spice racks, knife holders, holders for
containers, etc.

I have a Lincoln 175 SP+, and can do some HOT spot welds. I don't want to
do very much weld metal deposit to keep from warping.

I have been interested in what it takes to put two pieces of bar together,
and zap them and melt them like the shopping carts are made. They come up
so beautifully fused and even.

Is there a resistance welding device made, or can I do it with just a
welding machine with a momentary blast of current? As with CadWelding
studs, is there any type of powder available that I can put in the joint
that would melt when it arcs?

Or just keep it simple and tack it hot?

Steve

Spot welding like that takes well north of 1000 amps.

Several guys have made spot welders out of microwave oven
transformers. I haven't done that so I'll defer to someone who has.

Don Foreman wrote:

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 23:47:01 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

I want to make some small diameter rod racks for spices. I think I'll use
1/4" or less square and round bar. I'm going to twist the round, and
square, making spirals, geometric designs, freehand stuff, then bend it to
form the rack. Mainly kitchen spice racks, knife holders, holders for
containers, etc.

I have a Lincoln 175 SP+, and can do some HOT spot welds. I don't want to
do very much weld metal deposit to keep from warping.

I have been interested in what it takes to put two pieces of bar together,
and zap them and melt them like the shopping carts are made. They come up
so beautifully fused and even.

Is there a resistance welding device made, or can I do it with just a
welding machine with a momentary blast of current? As with CadWelding
studs, is there any type of powder available that I can put in the joint
that would melt when it arcs?

Or just keep it simple and tack it hot?

Steve

Spot welding like that takes well north of 1000 amps.

Several guys have made spot welders out of microwave oven
transformers. I haven't done that so I'll defer to someone who has.

Harbor Freight sells two models of inexpensive spot welders which would
probably work adequately for the application.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:50:03 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 23:47:01 -0700, "Steve B" ... wrote:

I want to make some small diameter rod racks for spices. I think I'll
use 1/4" or less square and round bar. I'm going to twist the round,
and square, making spirals, geometric designs, freehand stuff, then
bend it to form the rack. Mainly kitchen spice racks, knife holders,
holders for containers, etc.
....
I have been interested in what it takes to put two pieces of bar
together, and zap them and melt them like the shopping carts are made.
They come up so beautifully fused and even.

Is there a resistance welding device made, or can I do it with just a
welding machine with a momentary blast of current? As with CadWelding
studs, is there any type of powder available that I can put in the
joint that would melt when it arcs?
....
Spot welding like that takes well north of 1000 amps.

Several guys have made spot welders out of microwave oven transformers.
I haven't done that so I'll defer to someone who has.

Harbor Freight sells two models of inexpensive spot welders which would
probably work adequately for the application.

Maybe so, or maybe not, if you refer to items 45689 and 45690 like at
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45690.

HF rates these 1.5KVA units for 1/8" metal, probably referring to the
total thickness. I doubt that they will work ok for two pieces of 1/4"
bar. (I have the 220V version and have fastened pieces of .1" strap
together ok with several spot welds per join, but it was easy to twist
apart single welds.)

Miller rates its $5000 20KVA 12500A units at 1/4" total thickness,
per http://www.millerwelds.com/products/spotwelders/ but that
probably is quite conservative.

IIRC, Gunner has an old floor unit something like those Miller's
or a bit bigger, that he might part with at less-than-new
prices ...

--
jiw

James Waldby wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:50:03 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 23:47:01 -0700, "Steve B" ... wrote:

I want to make some small diameter rod racks for spices. I think I'll
use 1/4" or less square and round bar. I'm going to twist the round,
and square, making spirals, geometric designs, freehand stuff, then
bend it to form the rack. Mainly kitchen spice racks, knife holders,
holders for containers, etc.
...
I have been interested in what it takes to put two pieces of bar
together, and zap them and melt them like the shopping carts are made.
They come up so beautifully fused and even.

Is there a resistance welding device made, or can I do it with just a
welding machine with a momentary blast of current? As with CadWelding
studs, is there any type of powder available that I can put in the
joint that would melt when it arcs?
...
Spot welding like that takes well north of 1000 amps.

Several guys have made spot welders out of microwave oven transformers.
I haven't done that so I'll defer to someone who has.

Harbor Freight sells two models of inexpensive spot welders which would
probably work adequately for the application.

Maybe so, or maybe not, if you refer to items 45689 and 45690 like at
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45690.

HF rates these 1.5KVA units for 1/8" metal, probably referring to the
total thickness. I doubt that they will work ok for two pieces of 1/4"
bar. (I have the 220V version and have fastened pieces of .1" strap
together ok with several spot welds per join, but it was easy to twist
apart single welds.)

Yes, however since the stated application was "spice racks" it would
seem that once one started sketching out a design it would be obvious
that 1/4" wire would be absurd.

I've been thinking about picking up the 240V HF unit to add to my home
shop. I don't have a specific use, but it would seem to be handy for
various projects.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:54:39 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby wrote:


Miller rates its $5000 20KVA 12500A units at 1/4" total thickness,
per http://www.millerwelds.com/products/spotwelders/ but that
probably is quite conservative.

IIRC, Gunner has an old floor unit something like those Miller's
or a bit bigger, that he might part with at less-than-new
prices ...


Indeed I do. Its IIRC...either a 25kva or 50kva.

I should have it in my hands in a week or two.

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Don Foreman wrote:

Spot welding like that takes well north of 1000 amps.

Several guys have made spot welders out of microwave oven
transformers. I haven't done that so I'll defer to someone who has.

I would be one of those who have:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...rPrintable.pdf

'Cause I just had to know if it would do Steve's job, I tested it. I
used 3/16 rod, because I think 1/4 is just too big for spice racks and
that sort of stuff:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/SmRodWeld.jpg

It took 3 or 4 tries to get the timing right ('bout 3 seconds, I'd say).
The joint shown held while the rod bent.

As described in the DropBox writeup, my welder draws 17A at 240v, or
4kVA. 2000A output if one divides the 4kVA by the 2v OCV.

Iggy's 5kVA, $70, welder was a great deal, but it's gone. And it takes
floor space - a serious limitation for some of us G.

Bob

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:54:39 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:50:03 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 23:47:01 -0700, "Steve B" ... wrote:

I want to make some small diameter rod racks for spices. I think I'll
use 1/4" or less square and round bar. I'm going to twist the round,
and square, making spirals, geometric designs, freehand stuff, then
bend it to form the rack. Mainly kitchen spice racks, knife holders,
holders for containers, etc.
...
I have been interested in what it takes to put two pieces of bar
together, and zap them and melt them like the shopping carts are made.
They come up so beautifully fused and even.

Is there a resistance welding device made, or can I do it with just a
welding machine with a momentary blast of current? As with CadWelding
studs, is there any type of powder available that I can put in the
joint that would melt when it arcs?
...
Spot welding like that takes well north of 1000 amps.

Several guys have made spot welders out of microwave oven transformers.
I haven't done that so I'll defer to someone who has.

Harbor Freight sells two models of inexpensive spot welders which would
probably work adequately for the application.

Maybe so, or maybe not, if you refer to items 45689 and 45690 like at
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45690.

HF rates these 1.5KVA units for 1/8" metal, probably referring to the
total thickness. I doubt that they will work ok for two pieces of 1/4"
bar. (I have the 220V version and have fastened pieces of .1" strap
together ok with several spot welds per join, but it was easy to twist
apart single welds.)

Miller rates its $5000 20KVA 12500A units at 1/4" total thickness,
per http://www.millerwelds.com/products/spotwelders/ but that
probably is quite conservative.

IIRC, Gunner has an old floor unit something like those Miller's
or a bit bigger, that he might part with at less-than-new
prices ...

Spot welders create rather strong magnetic fields that can raise hell
with pacemakers and ICD's (implanted cardioverter defibrillator).
Folks that have such devices should know to stay well clear, but some
won't so the operator should know so he can caution others.

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
Don Foreman wrote:

Spot welding like that takes well north of 1000 amps. Several guys have
made spot welders out of microwave oven
transformers. I haven't done that so I'll defer to someone who has.

I would be one of those who have:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...rPrintable.pdf

'Cause I just had to know if it would do Steve's job, I tested it. I used
3/16 rod, because I think 1/4 is just too big for spice racks and that
sort of stuff:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/SmRodWeld.jpg

It took 3 or 4 tries to get the timing right ('bout 3 seconds, I'd say).
The joint shown held while the rod bent.

As described in the DropBox writeup, my welder draws 17A at 240v, or 4kVA.
2000A output if one divides the 4kVA by the 2v OCV.

Iggy's 5kVA, $70, welder was a great deal, but it's gone. And it takes
floor space - a serious limitation for some of us G.

Bob

I think I'll just hot spot weld 3/16" square. I need a couple of spice
racks and shelves until such time as we win the lottery and remodel the
kitchen.

Steve

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 20:59:30 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
Don Foreman wrote:

Spot welding like that takes well north of 1000 amps. Several guys have
made spot welders out of microwave oven
transformers. I haven't done that so I'll defer to someone who has.

I would be one of those who have:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...rPrintable.pdf

'Cause I just had to know if it would do Steve's job, I tested it. I used
3/16 rod, because I think 1/4 is just too big for spice racks and that
sort of stuff:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/SmRodWeld.jpg

It took 3 or 4 tries to get the timing right ('bout 3 seconds, I'd say).
The joint shown held while the rod bent.

As described in the DropBox writeup, my welder draws 17A at 240v, or 4kVA.
2000A output if one divides the 4kVA by the 2v OCV.

Iggy's 5kVA, $70, welder was a great deal, but it's gone. And it takes
floor space - a serious limitation for some of us G.

Bob

I think I'll just hot spot weld 3/16" square. I need a couple of spice
racks and shelves until such time as we win the lottery and remodel the
kitchen.

Steve

So I cant use my 300 amp square wave tig?

Damnit...sigh


Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 20:59:30 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
Don Foreman wrote:

Spot welding like that takes well north of 1000 amps. Several guys have
made spot welders out of microwave oven
transformers. I haven't done that so I'll defer to someone who has.

I would be one of those who have:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...rPrintable.pdf

'Cause I just had to know if it would do Steve's job, I tested it. I
used
3/16 rod, because I think 1/4 is just too big for spice racks and that
sort of stuff:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/SmRodWeld.jpg

It took 3 or 4 tries to get the timing right ('bout 3 seconds, I'd say).
The joint shown held while the rod bent.

As described in the DropBox writeup, my welder draws 17A at 240v, or
4kVA.
2000A output if one divides the 4kVA by the 2v OCV.

Iggy's 5kVA, $70, welder was a great deal, but it's gone. And it takes
floor space - a serious limitation for some of us G.

Bob

I think I'll just hot spot weld 3/16" square. I need a couple of spice
racks and shelves until such time as we win the lottery and remodel the
kitchen.

Steve

So I cant use my 300 amp square wave tig?

Damnit...sigh


Gunner



Actually, a hot spot weld with a Tig in the back where it cannot be seen
would be my first choice.

Steve

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:33:24 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:54:39 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:50:03 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 23:47:01 -0700, "Steve B" ... wrote:

I want to make some small diameter rod racks for spices. I think I'll
use 1/4" or less square and round bar. I'm going to twist the round,
and square, making spirals, geometric designs, freehand stuff, then
bend it to form the rack. Mainly kitchen spice racks, knife holders,
holders for containers, etc.
...
I have been interested in what it takes to put two pieces of bar
together, and zap them and melt them like the shopping carts are made.
They come up so beautifully fused and even.

Is there a resistance welding device made, or can I do it with just a
welding machine with a momentary blast of current? As with CadWelding
studs, is there any type of powder available that I can put in the
joint that would melt when it arcs?
...
Spot welding like that takes well north of 1000 amps.

Several guys have made spot welders out of microwave oven transformers.
I haven't done that so I'll defer to someone who has.

Harbor Freight sells two models of inexpensive spot welders which would
probably work adequately for the application.

Maybe so, or maybe not, if you refer to items 45689 and 45690 like at
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45690.

HF rates these 1.5KVA units for 1/8" metal, probably referring to the
total thickness. I doubt that they will work ok for two pieces of 1/4"
bar. (I have the 220V version and have fastened pieces of .1" strap
together ok with several spot welds per join, but it was easy to twist
apart single welds.)

Miller rates its $5000 20KVA 12500A units at 1/4" total thickness,
per http://www.millerwelds.com/products/spotwelders/ but that
probably is quite conservative.

IIRC, Gunner has an old floor unit something like those Miller's
or a bit bigger, that he might part with at less-than-new
prices ...

Spot welders create rather strong magnetic fields that can raise hell
with pacemakers and ICD's (implanted cardioverter defibrillator).
Folks that have such devices should know to stay well clear, but some
won't so the operator should know so he can caution others.


Don't know if you've already seen this one Don, but it's relevant to you and
other ICD/Pacemaker users:-

http://tinyurl.com/y7vdm23


Regards
Mark Rand
RTFM