On Mar 2, 6:17*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Ignoramus11220" wrote in message

...

LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks

You might be interested in a trial I did:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7623384305382/

It is nothing original or definitive, I just wanted to know how things
behaved in my hands. Also I did not consider prices but these are easy to
find out.

In a nutshell: Nothing beat LPS3.

I was puzzled about the behaviour of WD40.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I'm not puzzled about WD40. Despite what folks say, it's good for one
thing, displacing water, that's what it was designed for. The stuff
is basically a light petroleum fraction with other crap dissolved that
will evaporate leaving the other crap coating the surface and it's NOT
a lubricant or rust-preventative. So if you try using it on a squeaky
hinge, the squeak comes back, sometimes worse. Performance on rusty
stuff is no better than using kerosene. LPS 1 is a far better
penetrant and the coating it leaves IS a lubricant. I use it on
padlock innards, usually good for several years in fully exposed
locks. Keeps the disc locks from bending or busting keys.

There's one thing better than LPS 3, but it's not made anymore. LPS
100 was a white grease that was supposedly good for a whole year under
sea water. Used to use it on antenna rotator bearings, usually lasted
longer than the attached antennas.

Stan

wrote in message
...
On Mar 2, 6:17 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Ignoramus11220" wrote in message

...

LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks

You might be interested in a trial I did:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7623384305382/

It is nothing original or definitive, I just wanted to know how things
behaved in my hands. Also I did not consider prices but these are easy to
find out.

In a nutshell: Nothing beat LPS3.

I was puzzled about the behaviour of WD40.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I'm not puzzled about WD40. Despite what folks say, it's good for one
thing, displacing water, that's what it was designed for.

snip

They should fly banners behind airplanes announcing that fact. It would save
a lot of mistreated machinery.

I'd like to know what happened to WD-39...

--
Ed Huntress

On Mar 6, 9:02*pm, wrote:
...
There's one thing better than LPS 3, but it's not made anymore. *LPS
100 was a white grease that was supposedly good for a whole year under
sea water. *Used to use it on antenna rotator bearings, usually lasted
longer than the attached antennas.

Stan

This can of it is black, and very thick, the marks from scooping some
out maybe 20 years ago haven't slumped.

It's hard to apply unless thinned and doesn't soak through a rust film
so I don't use it much, except on bolt threads under the truck. Plus I
can't replace it.

It might be a slightly better lubricating grease than LPS-3, which
dries to a wax, but neither is good. Marine lower unit or trailer
wheel bearing grease let my home made roller wheel bearings spin
easier and seem to be enough protection.

IIRC it made the antenna rotator sluggish in very cold weather. I used
marine grease the second time. The antenna has lasted only because I
make new parts. I'm receiving HDTV on a dipole made of two 6" hex
standoffs jammed into plastic hose.

jsw

I found another penetrating lubricant called PB-50 (by the same
company that makes PB Blaster). It is massively cheaper than LPS-2 and
is sold for $2.50 per can at Home Depot. The can is slightly smaller
than LPS-2, but the price difference more than makes up for it.

However, this PB-50 does not disperse widely, it shoots a jet of it.

So, there is no good alternative to LPS-2.

I agree with the opinion expressed here, that buying LPS-2 by the
gallon, and using spray bottles, is the best bet if I need to use a
lot of nondrying, easily sprayable, penetrating rust preventative.
This is what I will do. I have a large quantity of steel, tool steel
etc. I will sell some, but I will keep a lot and I want that steel to
stay clean and not rust.

i

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 6, 10:50 am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Jim Wilkins wrote:





On Mar 5, 11:26 am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article
,
Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 5, 9:42 am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
...
Dissolution has no effect on vapor pressure whatsoever.
...
Joe Gwinn
http://www.chem.purdue.edu/gchelp/solutions/colligv.html
Ideal gas law versus real substances. How big is the deviation?
Joe Gwinn
Enormous, order(s) of magnitude. Consider acetylene dissolved in
acetone:
http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/metal...issolved-Acety...
"At atmospheric pressure and 15 deg. Cent, acetone dissolves 24 times
its volume of acetylene."
That's an interesting article on acetone storage of acetylene.

But something is perplexing me. In the above Purdue reference, the key sentence
echoes Dalton's Law of Partial Pressures:

"A volatile solute (i.e., a solute that has a vapor pressure of its own) will
contribute to the vapor pressure above a solution in which it is dissolved. The
vapor pressure above a solution containing a volatile solute (or solutes) is
equal to the sum of the vapor pressures of the solvent and each of the volatile
solutes."

I think I'll look this up in my Physical Chem textbook.

Joe Gwinn

Does it make sense to you if you think of the fraction in gas phase as
a gas and the fraction in the dissolved liquid phase as a liquid?
Liquids are 500 ~ 1000 times denser than gases.

Otherwise, sorry, chemistry isn't at all intuitive, at least until you
learn thermodynamics. An understanding of the fundamentals of
chemistry eluded Sir Isaac Newton despite his achievements in math and
physics, .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton's_occult_studies

jsw
OBTW - remember the times :
Newton was a student of Elias Ashmole. Ashmole gathered during the purges in
England all of he science and 'occult' as the priest of the time held all of
this. Their time coming to an end, Elias decided to gather as much of what they
had before they were burned or otherwise killed. They agreed and he became the
most knowledgeable person in the science and occult world. Instruments, methods
and formula were saved in the worlds first public museum. He held the chair
that Newton later took. He was a Master Mason of the accepted type, not
building trade type.

cite - ISBN 0954330927 author of book Tobias Churton.

Martin

On Mar 6, 8:09*pm, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
What about recharging various aerosol products' cans with freon or other
commonly available compounds?
Other compounds.. canned air/duster products (difluoroethane)?

I realize that saving/recovering a bit of cheap product isn't worth a safety
risk, and I wouldn't have a pressing reason to recharge an aerosol can, but
if I did, I'd recharge it outdoors and use the contents at that time or not
take the can indoors.

I'm primarily just curious about propellants. Those heavy duty refillable
spray containers that are intended to be charged with compressed air don't
perform very well with compressed air.
For outdoor use, using one of those refillable sprayer gizmos might be more
practical than running a long air hose or portable air compressor with a
paint gun outdoors.http://www.prodcatalog.com/catalog/O...mages&id=30297...

http://weldwarehouse.securesites.com/cgi-bin/spider.pl?99532||1|451

--
WB

You are asking questions I hesitate to fully answer. I ran into the
welding instructor at the hardware store today and discussed teaching
people skills, hands-on vs verbally vs in print. In print we have no
control over what you do with the information and no feedback if you
misunderstand it.

As I wrote earlier I put aerosol LPS-3 and bug repellant into pump
sprayers that originally held them, because they dissolve paper label
glue and magic marker. Paint and cold galvanizing go in labelled jars.
I've had very little trouble with spray cans that are cleared after
use by spraying them upside down.

BTW, the welding instructor suggested two hex nuts held together as a
model for the 120 degree angle to hand-grind a drill bit.

jsw

On Mar 6, 11:07*pm, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton's_occult_studies
jsw

OBTW - remember the times :
Newton was a student of Elias Ashmole. Ashmole gathered during the purges in
England all of he science and 'occult' as the priest of the time held all of
this. *...
Martin

I wondered where the odd name "Ashmolean" came from.

Alchemy included the body of practical chemical knowledge. The thousand
+ year old assaying and smelting methods of Theophilius, Biringuccio
and Agricola are still useful. We learned the blowpipe and charcoal
block technique, with which you can literally smelt ores into metals
in your hand.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ospectors.html

I used it with a candle to make little animals from splinters of a
broken milk glass light fixture, which turned a spotted brown when
overheated.

jsw

On Mar 7, 3:45*am, Ignoramus26053 ignoramus26...@NOSPAM.
26053.invalid wrote:
I found another penetrating lubricant called PB-50 (by the same
company that makes PB Blaster). It is massively cheaper than LPS-2 and
is sold for $2.50 per can at Home Depot. The can is slightly smaller
than LPS-2, but the price difference more than makes up for it.

However, this PB-50 does not disperse widely, it shoots a jet of it.

So, there is no good alternative to LPS-2.

I agree with the opinion expressed here, that buying LPS-2 by the
gallon, and using spray bottles, is the best bet if I need to use a
lot of nondrying, easily sprayable, penetrating rust preventative.
This is what I will do. I have a large quantity of steel, tool steel
etc. I will sell some, but I will keep a lot and I want that steel to
stay clean and not rust.

i

Have you tried switching nozzles on the PB50 can?

I have used liquid floor polish to keep stuff from rusting. It is
inexpensive if you get it at moving sales.

Dan

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 18:02:54 -0800 (PST), the infamous
scrawled the following:

I'm not puzzled about WD40. Despite what folks say, it's good for one
thing, displacing water, that's what it was designed for. The stuff
is basically a light petroleum fraction with other crap dissolved that
will evaporate leaving the other crap coating the surface and it's NOT
a lubricant or rust-preventative. So if you try using it on a squeaky
hinge, the squeak comes back, sometimes worse. Performance on rusty
stuff is no better than using kerosene.

For hinges, pull the pins, wipe them off, run some coarse steel wool
over 'em, wipe 'em again, dip your finger in some moly wheel bearing
grease and put a thin coat on the full length and circumference of the
pin. Clean your finger off on the top of the female hinge opening, and
tap the pin in. That's good for about 30 squeak-free years in most
homes.

Well, STP changed their formula and so did WD-40. Both now contain
oil. WD has under 25%, but it's there now. WD hasn't even tried to
talk people out of the idea of using it as a lubricant because it
means that they'll have to buy _much_ more WD. I've amazed many a
mother when I took the squeak (and kept it out) from their kids'
bicycle and tricycle wheels. I'm truly glad that Big Wheels are no
longer an issue. DAMN, those things are LOUD! No way to lube plastic
tires on concrete or asphalt. sigh


LPS 1 is a far better
penetrant and the coating it leaves IS a lubricant. I use it on
padlock innards, usually good for several years in fully exposed
locks. Keeps the disc locks from bending or busting keys.

That has been more of a problem here in Oregon than it was for me in
California. I'll have to locate some LPS1.


There's one thing better than LPS 3, but it's not made anymore. LPS
100 was a white grease that was supposedly good for a whole year under
sea water. Used to use it on antenna rotator bearings, usually lasted
longer than the attached antennas.

What did you replace it with, spray lithium grease?

--
The blind are not good trailblazers.

-- federal judge Frank Easterbrook

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 18:02:54 -0800 (PST), the infamous
scrawled the following:

I'm not puzzled about WD40. Despite what folks say, it's good for one
thing, displacing water, that's what it was designed for. The stuff
is basically a light petroleum fraction with other crap dissolved that
will evaporate leaving the other crap coating the surface and it's NOT
a lubricant or rust-preventative. So if you try using it on a squeaky
hinge, the squeak comes back, sometimes worse. Performance on rusty
stuff is no better than using kerosene.

For hinges, pull the pins, wipe them off, run some coarse steel wool
over 'em, wipe 'em again, dip your finger in some moly wheel bearing
grease and put a thin coat on the full length and circumference of the
pin. Clean your finger off on the top of the female hinge opening, and
tap the pin in. That's good for about 30 squeak-free years in most
homes.

What I've found to work very well on cheap steel door hinges is 90-weight hypoid
gear oil, which is the consistency of honey and so will creep into all the nooks
and crannies.

To apply, I close the door, and one-by-one drive the hingepin out, butter coat
it with the hypoid oil, and reinsert. After a day or so, the oil has found its
way into the places where metal interferes with metal, and the grinding and
squeaking sounds are gone.

The smell of the hypoid oil goes away after a few days. Put a paper towel in
the gap between door and jam under the hinges to catch any drips - the oil will
stain things.

Joe Gwinn

Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mar 2, 6:17 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Ignoramus11220" wrote in message

...

LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.
The only minus of it is that it is expensive.
Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.
Thanks
You might be interested in a trial I did:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7623384305382/

It is nothing original or definitive, I just wanted to know how things
behaved in my hands. Also I did not consider prices but these are easy to
find out.

In a nutshell: Nothing beat LPS3.

I was puzzled about the behaviour of WD40.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I'm not puzzled about WD40. Despite what folks say, it's good for one
thing, displacing water, that's what it was designed for.

snip

They should fly banners behind airplanes announcing that fact. It would save
a lot of mistreated machinery.

I'd like to know what happened to WD-39...

Went to the same place as Preparation G

"Jerry Wass" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mar 2, 6:17 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Ignoramus11220" wrote in message

...

LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.
The only minus of it is that it is expensive.
Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.
Thanks
You might be interested in a trial I did:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7623384305382/

It is nothing original or definitive, I just wanted to know how things
behaved in my hands. Also I did not consider prices but these are easy
to
find out.

In a nutshell: Nothing beat LPS3.

I was puzzled about the behaviour of WD40.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I'm not puzzled about WD40. Despite what folks say, it's good for one
thing, displacing water, that's what it was designed for.

snip

They should fly banners behind airplanes announcing that fact. It would
save a lot of mistreated machinery.

I'd like to know what happened to WD-39...

Went to the same place as Preparation G

Very good! g There really was a WD-39, you know. And all the other
numbers. The one they finally produced was marketed under the same name they
used for it in the lab -- it was their 40th try to come up with a cheap
solution for displacing water.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mar 2, 6:17*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Ignoramus11220" wrote in message

...

LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks

You might be interested in a trial I did:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7623384305382/

It is nothing original or definitive, I just wanted to know how things
behaved in my hands. Also I did not consider prices but these are easy to
find out.

Great test. It helps rule out lots of products quickly and shows
which ones work under the nastiest conditions. That's salt and water
in your liquid cups, right?

I'd like to see how the expensive metal polishes (Everbrite and
Sharkskin), fare in this kind of test, too.


In a nutshell: Nothing beat LPS3.

Is it still available?


I was puzzled about the behaviour of WD40.

The rust probably combined with one of the additives, perhaps?

--
The blind are not good trailblazers.

-- federal judge Frank Easterbrook

On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:45:48 -0600, the infamous Ignoramus26053
scrawled the following:

I found another penetrating lubricant called PB-50 (by the same
company that makes PB Blaster). It is massively cheaper than LPS-2 and
is sold for $2.50 per can at Home Depot. The can is slightly smaller
than LPS-2, but the price difference more than makes up for it.

However, this PB-50 does not disperse widely, it shoots a jet of it.

So, there is no good alternative to LPS-2.

I agree with the opinion expressed here, that buying LPS-2 by the
gallon, and using spray bottles, is the best bet if I need to use a
lot of nondrying, easily sprayable, penetrating rust preventative.
This is what I will do. I have a large quantity of steel, tool steel
etc. I will sell some, but I will keep a lot and I want that steel to
stay clean and not rust.


The advertising boys in Tucker have been working late:

The can label says "LPS-2 Heavy-duty Lubricant"

The msds says: "Section 1 – Identification
Product Name: LPS 2®

Part Number: 00222, 02128, 00205, 00255, C00222, C02128, C00205,
C00255

Chemical Name: Petroleum Distillates

Product Use: An industrial lubricant designed to displace moisture
from mechanical and electrical equipment, provide light-duty
lubrication and short-term rust prevention. (What duty?)

Manufacturer Information: LPS Laboratories, 4647 Hugh Howell Rd.,
Tucker, GA, USA 30084"


I wonder which it is...

--
The blind are not good trailblazers.

-- federal judge Frank Easterbrook

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 18:02:54 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Mar 2, 6:17*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Ignoramus11220" wrote in message

...

LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks

You might be interested in a trial I did:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7623384305382/

It is nothing original or definitive, I just wanted to know how things
behaved in my hands. Also I did not consider prices but these are easy to
find out.

In a nutshell: Nothing beat LPS3.

I was puzzled about the behaviour of WD40.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I'm not puzzled about WD40. Despite what folks say, it's good for one
thing, displacing water, that's what it was designed for. The stuff
is basically a light petroleum fraction with other crap dissolved that
will evaporate leaving the other crap coating the surface and it's NOT
a lubricant or rust-preventative. So if you try using it on a squeaky
hinge, the squeak comes back, sometimes worse. Performance on rusty
stuff is no better than using kerosene. LPS 1 is a far better
penetrant and the coating it leaves IS a lubricant. I use it on
padlock innards, usually good for several years in fully exposed
locks. Keeps the disc locks from bending or busting keys.

There's one thing better than LPS 3, but it's not made anymore. LPS
100 was a white grease that was supposedly good for a whole year under
sea water. Used to use it on antenna rotator bearings, usually lasted
longer than the attached antennas.

Stan

Give that man a ceegar! WD40's most impressive feature is it's
marketing dept.

Newb

Ignoramus26053 wrote:
I found another penetrating lubricant called PB-50 ...

However, this PB-50 does not disperse widely, it shoots a jet of it.

So, there is no good alternative to LPS-2.
....

Geez - this thread has been about LPS-*2*, but I've been thinking
LPS-*3* (although LPS-3 has snuck in).

Anyhow, LPS-2 & PB-50 are primarily lubricants, that rust protect too,
according to their manufacturers.

LPS-3 is primarily a rust preventer. Blaster has a competitive product
(I think) called Corrosion Stop
http://www.pbblaster.com/Corrosion_Stop.html
Has anybody used this? Like PB-50, it is much cheaper than the LPS version.

Bob

Wild_Bill wrote:

(re re-pressurizing with propane)

What about recharging various aerosol products' cans with freon or other
commonly available compounds?
....
I'm primarily just curious about propellants. Those heavy duty
refillable spray containers that are intended to be charged with
compressed air don't perform very well with compressed air.
....
http://www.prodcatalog.com/catalog/O...ime=image/jpeg
....

OH - Inspiration! How about charging those "Atomizer Aerosol Hand
Sprayers" with propane?! You're right that they "don't perform very
well with compressed air". Cause the pressure runs out too quickly &
varies too much. But propane doesn't. IIRC, my sprayer has a maximum
working pressure of 150 psi. Which would accommodate propane if I
didn't let it sit out in the sun for too long G. Weenie Warning: I'm
not recommending this.

Bob

On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:33:42 -0500, the infamous Joseph Gwinn
scrawled the following:

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 18:02:54 -0800 (PST), the infamous
scrawled the following:

I'm not puzzled about WD40. Despite what folks say, it's good for one
thing, displacing water, that's what it was designed for. The stuff
is basically a light petroleum fraction with other crap dissolved that
will evaporate leaving the other crap coating the surface and it's NOT
a lubricant or rust-preventative. So if you try using it on a squeaky
hinge, the squeak comes back, sometimes worse. Performance on rusty
stuff is no better than using kerosene.

For hinges, pull the pins, wipe them off, run some coarse steel wool
over 'em, wipe 'em again, dip your finger in some moly wheel bearing
grease and put a thin coat on the full length and circumference of the
pin. Clean your finger off on the top of the female hinge opening, and
tap the pin in. That's good for about 30 squeak-free years in most
homes.

What I've found to work very well on cheap steel door hinges is 90-weight hypoid
gear oil, which is the consistency of honey and so will creep into all the nooks
and crannies.

Oh my Crom! That stuff stinks worse than any crap I've ever shat out.
How could you stand that? I absolutely hate the smell of that stuff.


To apply, I close the door, and one-by-one drive the hingepin out, butter coat
it with the hypoid oil, and reinsert. After a day or so, the oil has found its
way into the places where metal interferes with metal, and the grinding and
squeaking sounds are gone.

The smell of the hypoid oil goes away after a few days. Put a paper towel in
the gap between door and jam under the hinges to catch any drips - the oil will
stain things.

No it doesn't. I had a single drop of it in my kitchen and it stunk
for months, until I'd PineSol the **** out of it. It's horrible.

I still prefer my moly grease, which doesn't go anywhere and doesn't
have much of a scent at all, even right out of the can.

--
The blind are not good trailblazers.

-- federal judge Frank Easterbrook

On 2010-03-07, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
Ignoramus26053 wrote:
I found another penetrating lubricant called PB-50 ...

However, this PB-50 does not disperse widely, it shoots a jet of it.

So, there is no good alternative to LPS-2.
...

Geez - this thread has been about LPS-*2*, but I've been thinking
LPS-*3* (although LPS-3 has snuck in).

Anyhow, LPS-2 & PB-50 are primarily lubricants, that rust protect too,
according to their manufacturers.

LPS-3 is primarily a rust preventer. Blaster has a competitive product
(I think) called Corrosion Stop
http://www.pbblaster.com/Corrosion_Stop.html
Has anybody used this? Like PB-50, it is much cheaper than the LPS version.

Bob

I bought it at HD last week along with PB-50. It does seem to be a
very decent alternative to LPS-3. Leaves a waxy surface, but much
softer than LPS-3. Maybe I should say greasy surface.

I keep my anvil outside and will use this to prevent rusting. I used
LPS-3 and over the last so many months, the anvil has NO rust on it
whatsoever. (I cleaned it up prior to placing it). I re-apply rust
preventer after every use. The anvil may look dirty due to the dust
that it attracts, but not very dirty and inside, it is clean and
non-rusty.

i

I understand that you wouldn't want to suggest using potentially hazardous
materials.

The part I was wondering about would be the possible unexpected
consequences.
Such as the home-safety warning of "don't mix household cleaners".

I've used products that had propane or butane as propellants IIRC, but don't
remember what specific products they were, maybe fix-a-flat and a couple
others.

Clearing the dip tube of an aerosol product with the can inverted is the
best practice, and insurance that any unused product can be used at a later
time.

--
WB
..........


"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...

You are asking questions I hesitate to fully answer. I ran into the
welding instructor at the hardware store today and discussed teaching
people skills, hands-on vs verbally vs in print. In print we have no
control over what you do with the information and no feedback if you
misunderstand it.

As I wrote earlier I put aerosol LPS-3 and bug repellant into pump
sprayers that originally held them, because they dissolve paper label
glue and magic marker. Paint and cold galvanizing go in labelled jars.
I've had very little trouble with spray cans that are cleared after
use by spraying them upside down.

BTW, the welding instructor suggested two hex nuts held together as a
model for the 120 degree angle to hand-grind a drill bit.

jsw

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Mar 5, 11:26 am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article
,
Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Mar 5, 9:42 am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
...
Dissolution has no effect on vapor pressure whatsoever.
...
Joe Gwinn
http://www.chem.purdue.edu/gchelp/solutions/colligv.html
Ideal gas law versus real substances. How big is the deviation?

Joe Gwinn
Enormous, order(s) of magnitude. Consider acetylene dissolved in
acetone:
http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/metal...Acetylene.html
"At atmospheric pressure and 15 deg. Cent, acetone dissolves 24 times
its volume of acetylene."

That's an interesting article on acetone storage of acetylene.

But something is perplexing me. In the above Purdue reference, the key sentence
echoes Dalton's Law of Partial Pressures:

"A volatile solute (i.e., a solute that has a vapor pressure of its own) will
contribute to the vapor pressure above a solution in which it is dissolved. The
vapor pressure above a solution containing a volatile solute (or solutes) is
equal to the sum of the vapor pressures of the solvent and each of the volatile
solutes."

I think I'll look this up in my Physical Chem textbook.

It also says "Acetone is fairly cheap, inert, and incombustible". I
used to work around acetone, and if there's anything it's _not_, it's
"incombustable". It's about as 'incombustable' as gasoline, in my
experience.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

You might be interested in a trial I did:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7623384305382/

It is nothing original or definitive, I just wanted to know how things
behaved in my hands. Also I did not consider prices but these are easy
to
find out.

Great test. It helps rule out lots of products quickly and shows
which ones work under the nastiest conditions. That's salt and water
in your liquid cups, right?

And hydrochloric acid :-) That kind of shortens the duration of the trial...

I'd like to see how the expensive metal polishes (Everbrite and
Sharkskin), fare in this kind of test, too.


In a nutshell: Nothing beat LPS3.

Is it still available?

http://www.lpslabs.com/product_pg/co...n_pg/lps3.html

I have a 10 year old can on the shelf. I only use it if I find a nice piece
of steel which I intend to use in a distant future and don't want it to rust
meanwhile. Otherwise it is a pain as it is so sticky.


I was puzzled about the behaviour of WD40.

The rust probably combined with one of the additives, perhaps?

That is what I thought. I wondered what the additive was though. The colour
of the rust notwithstanding, the protection WD40 offered was better than
some others. BTW at the end of the test there was a greasy layer on all the
spray compounds: G96, T9, WD40 and LPS3.

There is a tendency for shop workers, particularly woodworkers to recommend
paste wax as a rust protectant for unpainted surfaces of machine tools. In
this test it was shown to be no better than control. This is consistent with
other literatu Flexner, who wrote book on wood finishing, maintains that
wax does not pose any significant barrier to water or water vapour when
applied to wood. There is no reason why it should behave differently on
metal.

BTW WD40 is the recommended cleaning and oiling agent for VZ firearms :

http://www.czub.cz/navody/CZ_858_Tactical.pdf

(page 15)

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mar 7, 7:56*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
...
BTW WD40 is the recommended cleaning and oiling agent for VZ firearms :
http://www.czub.cz/navody/CZ_858_Tactical.pdf
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I've heard that the Soviets used drain cleaner on the AK-47.

jsw

Inspiration was something there used to be an abundance of every day, from
reading and participating in RCM. Definitely RCM's best feature.

There certainly are a lot of varieties of compressed gas products around
these days.
I wouldn't have thought that pressurized paintball guns in the hands of
kids, would be considered safer than yard darts, but whudda I know?

Anyone can walk into a store and buy R134a or any number of aerosol products
(which may contain propellants made in China, but packaged in North America)
that they can use in any way that they deem worthwhile (except huffing it,
because that would be bad.. and the drug companies produce what they really
need).

It's only when/if injury or property damage occur that anyone else
scrutinizes (or has to pay for) the unintended uses of those products.
Most of the regular participants in RCM involved in actual metalworking
activities can assess a situation involving risk, and if the body count is
under 3 or 4, probably be fairly easy to cover up (just so no animals are
needlessly inconvenienced, because that would be bad).

So, frostbite from misusing an aerosol product might not be the worst-case
scenario. One would probably not want to explain to the ER doctor what
happened, when they show up with a badly scorched arm and severe frostbite
on his balls (without thinking up a good story beforehand).

--
WB
..........


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...

OH - Inspiration! How about charging those "Atomizer Aerosol Hand
Sprayers" with propane?! You're right that they "don't perform very well
with compressed air". Cause the pressure runs out too quickly & varies
too much. But propane doesn't. IIRC, my sprayer has a maximum working
pressure of 150 psi. Which would accommodate propane if I didn't let it
sit out in the sun for too long G. Weenie Warning: I'm not recommending
this.

Bob

Elias Ashmole donated his massive collection and created the first
public museum, The Ashmolean Museum in England.

Near Oxford where Elias sat in the same chair that his student made
super famous. He was the Kings science adviser and carried royal levels.

Martin

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 6, 11:07 pm, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton's_occult_studies
jsw
OBTW - remember the times :
Newton was a student of Elias Ashmole. Ashmole gathered during the purges in
England all of he science and 'occult' as the priest of the time held all of
this. ...
Martin

I wondered where the odd name "Ashmolean" came from.

Alchemy included the body of practical chemical knowledge. The thousand
+ year old assaying and smelting methods of Theophilius, Biringuccio
and Agricola are still useful. We learned the blowpipe and charcoal
block technique, with which you can literally smelt ores into metals
in your hand.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ospectors.html

I used it with a candle to make little animals from splinters of a
broken milk glass light fixture, which turned a spotted brown when
overheated.

jsw

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:33:42 -0500, the infamous Joseph Gwinn
scrawled the following:

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 18:02:54 -0800 (PST), the infamous
scrawled the following:

I'm not puzzled about WD40. Despite what folks say, it's good for one
thing, displacing water, that's what it was designed for. The stuff
is basically a light petroleum fraction with other crap dissolved that
will evaporate leaving the other crap coating the surface and it's NOT
a lubricant or rust-preventative. So if you try using it on a squeaky
hinge, the squeak comes back, sometimes worse. Performance on rusty
stuff is no better than using kerosene.

For hinges, pull the pins, wipe them off, run some coarse steel wool
over 'em, wipe 'em again, dip your finger in some moly wheel bearing
grease and put a thin coat on the full length and circumference of the
pin. Clean your finger off on the top of the female hinge opening, and
tap the pin in. That's good for about 30 squeak-free years in most
homes.

What I've found to work very well on cheap steel door hinges is 90-weight
hypoid
gear oil, which is the consistency of honey and so will creep into all the
nooks
and crannies.

Oh my Crom! That stuff stinks worse than any crap I've ever shat out.
How could you stand that? I absolutely hate the smell of that stuff.

It *is* a terrible smell. For a day or two.


To apply, I close the door, and one-by-one drive the hingepin out, butter
coat
it with the hypoid oil, and reinsert. After a day or so, the oil has found
its
way into the places where metal interferes with metal, and the grinding and
squeaking sounds are gone.

The smell of the hypoid oil goes away after a few days. Put a paper towel
in
the gap between door and jam under the hinges to catch any drips - the oil
will
stain things.

No it doesn't. I had a single drop of it in my kitchen and it stunk
for months, until I'd PineSol the **** out of it. It's horrible.

That is not my experience. Perhaps brands differ?


I still prefer my moly grease, which doesn't go anywhere and doesn't
have much of a scent at all, even right out of the can.

I have tried various kinds of grease. The problem with grease is that it is
soon pushed and/or scraped out of the critical area, whereas heavy oil will
creep back into that same critical area, time after time. Until the oil dries
out.

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 22:59:57 -0500, the infamous Joseph Gwinn
scrawled the following:

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

No it doesn't. I had a single drop of it in my kitchen and it stunk
for months, until I'd PineSol the **** out of it. It's horrible.

That is not my experience. Perhaps brands differ?

Very possibly, as do our individual sniffers.

Where was the drop? If not on metal, yes the smell lingers. I am very
fastidious when carrying and applying the hypoid oil.


I still prefer my moly grease, which doesn't go anywhere and doesn't
have much of a scent at all, even right out of the can.

I have tried various kinds of grease. The problem with grease is that it is
soon pushed and/or scraped out of the critical area, whereas heavy oil will
creep back into that same critical area, time after time. Until the oil
dries
out.

My experience has it running out the bottom and not creeping back.
YMMV.

I used to put a lot of oil in the hinge and let it drain, but now I put a
thinish layer on the pin. Enough oil stays in the hinge that I don't need to
reapply for some years.

Some kinds of grease also slowly drool oil, and these kinds of grease could work
on a hinge.

The advantage of hypoid oil is that it is designed to handle sliding
metal-to-metal contact, and has the additives to prove it.

There must be a way to use STP here.

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 08:46:59 -0500, the infamous Joseph Gwinn
scrawled the following:

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

Very possibly, as do our individual sniffers.

Where was the drop? If not on metal, yes the smell lingers. I am very
fastidious when carrying and applying the hypoid oil.

In a crack on the 30 y/o asphalt kitchen linoleum tiles. I think that
drip was the reason I went to Future acrylic floor "wax", and I've
used the wonderful stuff ever since.


My experience has it running out the bottom and not creeping back.
YMMV.

I used to put a lot of oil in the hinge and let it drain, but now I put a
thinish layer on the pin. Enough oil stays in the hinge that I don't need
to reapply for some years.

My latest test has lasted 8 years without needing reapplication. I did
the doors when I moved in and none of them squeaks or catches in the
slightest yet. No fuss, no muss, no drips, no smell, no maintenance.
Works for me. I think it's StaLube moly wheel bearing grease, and I
haven't had a single callback for a squeak returning yet.

Sounds like good stuff.


Some kinds of grease also slowly drool oil, and these kinds of grease could
work on a hinge.

Yes, probably, and they would cause extra maintenance from drips.

But if slow enough would keep the interference zone oiled without dripping.


The advantage of hypoid oil is that it is designed to handle sliding
metal-to-metal contact, and has the additives to prove it.

Yes, those yummy smelling hypoid additives. Har! Most of my doors are
hollow and don't require much from a grease (surface loading is
guaranteed to be less than that on a differential gear) so I'll
continue to avoid hypoid, thanks. Besides, most squeaking comes not
from the rubbing between the pin and hinge leaf, but from the flaking
rust dropping into the wear areas. Both our lubes should prevent it.


There must be a way to use STP here.

Oh, you're just a glutton for punishment, aren't you, Joe? vbg
Why don't we teflon-treat our door pins? "Folks, for only $499.95, we
can do yer doors. Lifetime guarantee." (We'll be out of bidness long
before that.) Or what about ball bearing hinges? That's the ticket!

Actually, the hinges on some swinging windows in my 1929 house are interesting.
The staples are galvanized steel, and the pins are solid brass. This worked
while exposed to the elements and left unlubricated for 70 years. So, being HSM
types, we can make new brass hinge pins. (I'm guessing one cannot buy solid
brass hinge pins any more, only steel with a cosmetic thin bras plating layer.)

Joe Gwinn

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Mar 7, 7:56 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
...
BTW WD40 is the recommended cleaning and oiling agent for VZ firearms :
http://www.czub.cz/navody/CZ_858_Tactical.pdf
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I've heard that the Soviets used drain cleaner on the AK-47.


Please! Windex!!!
It's good at removing the corrosive residue from the ComBloc ammo...

For precise application, use a hypoidermic syringe.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...


Where was the drop? If not on metal, yes the smell lingers.
I am very
fastidious when carrying and applying the hypoid oil.

The advantage of hypoid oil is that it is designed to handle
sliding
metal-to-metal contact, and has the additives to prove it.

There must be a way to use STP here.

Joe Gwinn

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

And hydrochloric acid :-) That kind of shortens the duration of the
trial...

Crom, you really like to light 'em up in there, don't you, Doc? g


Don't have time to p.ss about with this nonsense. 2 weeks is about all I am
prepared to devote to it.

I do a whole lot more woodworking than metalworking. I've found that
paste wax offers pretty good protection from the acid in my hands and
it's not too bad for rust protection in my dry shop. I should rewax
tools at least once a year but actually don't get around to doing the
whole stable until 4 or 5 years go by. (Hangs head in shame.)

Pros include making planes much easier to move on wood, too.

I get very forgetful with waxing the surfaces. No rust so far. I suspect the
wax is a placebo.


BTW WD40 is the recommended cleaning and oiling agent for VZ firearms :

http://www.czub.cz/navody/CZ_858_Tactical.pdf
(page 15)

Those are mighty long pistols, aren't they? (BTW, do they have an
_English_ translation of that manual? I no speaka da Czech.) I'm
surprised that WD got the nod. (I wonder who bought the guy off?)

Google is your friend, but just in case, do not follow the Google
translation if you buy one of these. It just might be teensy weensy bit
inaccurate as has been my experience in the past.

Also:
1) I suspect WD40 is not as bad as everybody makes out. I think I have
demonstrated that it is no worse than some of the more "sexy" products.

2) I have never been a soldier although I played one in the movies. Thus
although I fired my first fully automatic assault rifle at the age of 8 I
have no experience of what the actual regimes of cleaning weaponry are. If,
as I suspect, cleaning your weapon is a daily task it probably does not
matter *what * you clean with. The stories from Stalingrad suggest that
cleaning agents are not at all critical as long as they satisfy certain
overwhelming imperatives (I.e. in Stalingrad - not freezing!)

The RCMP to my knowledge use the G96 as one of their cleaning agents. There
is a trial they did on various agents on the net somewhere. The G96 did not
freeze and make guns fail in cold weather. However, if you look at their
cleaning regimen it is fairly frequent so a failure such as seen in my trial
is unlikely (I think they have mandatory re-cleaning after 20 discharges or
so - don't quote me on this!)

3) The military weaponry is built to *fight* with not to punch targets. Thus
it tends to be more resilient. Ask the AK crowd.

4) Even in the Czech republic the WD40 is likely to cost only a few crowns
unlike the other product. This maybe an overriding consideration and may be
in fact smart in terms of cost-benefit analysis.

5) I am prepared to accept that if you store your deer rifle in a damp
cabinet all year and take it out once in the hunting season a single
application of WD40 may be insufficient.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mon, 8 Mar 2010 17:20:34 -0800, the infamous "Michael Koblic"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

And hydrochloric acid :-) That kind of shortens the duration of the
trial...

Crom, you really like to light 'em up in there, don't you, Doc? g

Don't have time to p.ss about with this nonsense. 2 weeks is about all I am
prepared to devote to it.

Thanks again for doing so and posting the results.


I do a whole lot more woodworking than metalworking. I've found that
paste wax offers pretty good protection from the acid in my hands and
it's not too bad for rust protection in my dry shop. I should rewax
tools at least once a year but actually don't get around to doing the
whole stable until 4 or 5 years go by. (Hangs head in shame.)

Pros include making planes much easier to move on wood, too.

I get very forgetful with waxing the surfaces. No rust so far. I suspect the
wax is a placebo.

No, I had acid fingerprints in rust on my planes before learning to
wax 'em. I haven't seen one since.


BTW WD40 is the recommended cleaning and oiling agent for VZ firearms :

http://www.czub.cz/navody/CZ_858_Tactical.pdf
(page 15)

Those are mighty long pistols, aren't they? (BTW, do they have an
_English_ translation of that manual? I no speaka da Czech.) I'm
surprised that WD got the nod. (I wonder who bought the guy off?)

Google is your friend, but just in case, do not follow the Google
translation if you buy one of these. It just might be teensy weensy bit
inaccurate as has been my experience in the past.

I already have a little $100 SKS. That's good enough for me...for now.


Also:
1) I suspect WD40 is not as bad as everybody makes out. I think I have
demonstrated that it is no worse than some of the more "sexy" products.

Oh, WD-40 has lots of uses. Lubrication isn't one of its high points,
though.


2) I have never been a soldier although I played one in the movies. Thus
although I fired my first fully automatic assault rifle at the age of 8 I
have no experience of what the actual regimes of cleaning weaponry are. If,
as I suspect, cleaning your weapon is a daily task it probably does not
matter *what * you clean with. The stories from Stalingrad suggest that
cleaning agents are not at all critical as long as they satisfy certain
overwhelming imperatives (I.e. in Stalingrad - not freezing!)

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!


The RCMP to my knowledge use the G96 as one of their cleaning agents. There
is a trial they did on various agents on the net somewhere. The G96 did not
freeze and make guns fail in cold weather. However, if you look at their
cleaning regimen it is fairly frequent so a failure such as seen in my trial
is unlikely (I think they have mandatory re-cleaning after 20 discharges or
so - don't quote me on this!)

I'd never head of that product before your post.


3) The military weaponry is built to *fight* with not to punch targets. Thus
it tends to be more resilient. Ask the AK crowd.

Right, make sure it still fires after being dumped in the mud as you
fall down running from the overwhelming number of enemy soldiers on
your arse.


4) Even in the Czech republic the WD40 is likely to cost only a few crowns
unlike the other product. This maybe an overriding consideration and may be
in fact smart in terms of cost-benefit analysis.

OK.


5) I am prepared to accept that if you store your deer rifle in a damp
cabinet all year and take it out once in the hunting season a single
application of WD40 may be insufficient.

Egad! It would have grown and bloomed by then under those conditions.
shudder

--
Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the ultimate.
-- Chuang-tzu

On Mar 9, 1:44*am, Larry Jaques wrote:

I get very forgetful with waxing the surfaces. No rust so far. I suspect the
wax is a placebo.

No, I had acid fingerprints in rust on my planes before learning to
wax 'em. I haven't seen one since.


Wax works. I understand that Cosmoline is microcrystalline wax and
oil.

Dan