Alternatives to LPS-2
 

LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks

i

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

Ignoramus11220 wrote:

LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks

i

Check Kano Labs, makers of Kroil and lots of other good stuff, I'm sure
they have something suitable.

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

--Lots cheaper if you buy it by the gallon, then use a pump spray
bottle to apply it..

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Blue Cross socks us
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : $23,000/yr!! ...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

Iggy,
I haven't found any good substitute to LPS2. It is a lot less expensive than the rust. I like the idea of gallon containers
though.
Steve

"Ignoramus11220" wrote in message ...
LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks

i

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Mar 1, 10:38*am, Ignoramus11220 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11220.invalid wrote:
LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks

i

Where the metal you are trying to protect?

Inside lots of things work...outside only a few things.

TMT

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

Aerokroil is supposed to be good. Not sure it's
any cheaper, though.

I'm told that LPS-1 "non oily" is good lube for
locks.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ignoramus11220"
wrote in
message
...
LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is
light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It
also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of
a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can
be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks

i

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:38:09 -0600, Ignoramus11220
wrote:

LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks

i

Used motor oil meets your criteria.

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

I've never used LPS-2, so I can't make a direct comparison,
but take a look at Black Bear Par-AL-Ketone sold by
Aircraft Spruce. It is intended as a rust preventative and can be
diluted with mineral spirits, or denatured alcohol if you want it to
dry out faster. In discussions on the net many years ago, I recall
it was said that it was the same or similar to what was used in the
Rusty Jones rust proofing for cars. It's off lable use is as a bullet
lubricant ala Lee Liquid Alox.

RWL

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Mar 1, 9:38*am, Ignoramus11220 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11220.invalid wrote:
LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks

i

Look at what CRC offers. I've not used anything but their penetrant,
556, 356, 348 or one of them thread sizes. It worked OK. NAPA was
one source and I've seen it on real hardware store shelves. I like
the LPS line myself, but they seem to be really after the industrial
market, case lots, not the home shop onesies. I use more LPS 1 and 3
than 2.

Stan

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

William Wixon wrote:
i keep having cans of any brand (LPS, CRC, etc.) of the waxy anti-rust stuff
leak out all the propellant. it sucks (because it's expensive). half full
cans of LPS 3 (and others) with no propellant left. ...

You can re-pressurize aerosol cans with propane. I made an adapter for
recharging paint rattle cans:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhar...anAdapter2.jpg

It screws into the valve of a propane torch. I.e., in place of the
tube. Aerosol cans have different style valves & each style requires
its own adapter.

Bob

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

wrote in message
...
On Mar 1, 9:38 am, Ignoramus11220 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11220.invalid wrote:
LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks

i

Look at what CRC offers. I've not used anything but their penetrant,
556, 356, 348 or one of them thread sizes. It worked OK. NAPA was
one source and I've seen it on real hardware store shelves. I like
the LPS line myself, but they seem to be really after the industrial
market, case lots, not the home shop onesies. I use more LPS 1 and 3
than 2.

Stan



i keep having cans of any brand (LPS, CRC, etc.) of the waxy anti-rust stuff
leak out all the propellant. it sucks (because it's expensive). half full
cans of LPS 3 (and others) with no propellant left. one time i called LPS
and told them about it and they said they were going to send me replacements
and i waited a couple weeks and called them back and then they said they
weren't. i bought a bunch of the stuff from eastwood. they've got it in
metal cans, non-aerosol, like quart size. i put it in one of the plastic
containers (that come with the schutz gun) and the solvent evaporated
THROUGH the plastic container. now i have a SOLID container of wax
anti-rust stuff. gonna have to figure out a way to re-liquefy it. i don't
know how eastwood's prices compare to (what someone else suggested, gallon
non-aerosol).

http://www.eastwood.com/
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-heavy-dut...rust-32oz.html
http://www.eastwood.com/rust-solutions/prevention.html

how do their prices compare?

b.w.

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

"Ignoramus11220" wrote in message
...
LPS-2 is a great rust preventative, because it is light oil, sprays
nicely, and does not dry or harden over time. It also creeps and
penetrates well, so if, say, I spray it on top of a pile of metal
things, it will get to all the pieces in time.

The only minus of it is that it is expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative that can be sprayed and does
not dry out.

Thanks


You might be interested in a trial I did:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7623384305382/

It is nothing original or definitive, I just wanted to know how things
behaved in my hands. Also I did not consider prices but these are easy to
find out.

In a nutshell: Nothing beat LPS3.

I was puzzled about the behaviour of WD40.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 20:54:15 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Aerokroil is supposed to be good. Not sure it's
any cheaper, though.

I'm told that LPS-1 "non oily" is good lube for
locks.
ATF

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:54:08 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

William Wixon wrote:
i keep having cans of any brand (LPS, CRC, etc.) of the waxy anti-rust stuff
leak out all the propellant. it sucks (because it's expensive). half full
cans of LPS 3 (and others) with no propellant left. ...

You can re-pressurize aerosol cans with propane. I made an adapter for
recharging paint rattle cans:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhar...anAdapter2.jpg

It screws into the valve of a propane torch. I.e., in place of the
tube. Aerosol cans have different style valves & each style requires
its own adapter.

Bob

I did that too. Mine looks amazingly similar to yours, Bob, except
that mine isn't nearly as shiney.

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Mar 3, 12:42*am, Don Foreman wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:54:08 -0500, Bob Engelhardt

You can re-pressurize aerosol cans with propane. *
I did that too. *Mine looks amazingly similar to yours, Bob, except
that mine isn't nearly as shiney. *

I once found a purse-size hairspray can with a tapered insert |=
pressed into the valve stem under the spray nozzle so it could be
refilled from a larger can by holding the stems together. Butane
lighter refills and starting fluid also worked with it as long as the
small can was in cold water.

I bought one hand-pump spray bottle of LPS3 and refilled it first from
the dead aerosol cans and then a gallon jug. It goes further, sprays
better and doesn't clog the nozzle if diluted about 1:4 with kerosine.
Shake before using because part of it precipitates out.

jsw

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

Don Foreman wrote:
Bob Engelhardt wrote:
....
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhar...anAdapter2.jpg
....

I did that too. Mine looks amazingly similar to yours, Bob, except
that mine isn't nearly as shiney.

Oh, that means that yours is older than mine, which means that I
probably copied yours. Thanks, Don.

Bob

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

Jim Wilkins wrote:
....
I bought one hand-pump spray bottle of LPS3 and refilled it first from
the dead aerosol cans and then a gallon jug. It goes further, sprays
better and doesn't clog the nozzle if diluted about 1:4 with kerosine.
Shake before using because part of it precipitates out.

The LPS3 that I have is also the hand-pump bottle. I found that even
that was spraying too much & I poured some into a bottle with a brush in
its lid. (I was still suffering sticker shock & trying to be as frugal
with it as possible G) Good for small things, not so for bigger ones.

Regarding diluting it: I think "1:4 with kerosine" means 1 part LPS3 & 4
parts kero, but that seems like it would be really thin. Or is it the
other way around?

Bob

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Mar 3, 12:57*pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote: ...
I bought one hand-pump spray bottle of LPS3 and refilled it first from
the dead aerosol cans and then a gallon jug. It goes further, sprays
better and doesn't clog the nozzle if diluted about 1:4 with kerosine.
Shake before using because part of it precipitates out.

The LPS3 that I have is also the hand-pump bottle. *I found that even
that was spraying too much & I poured some into a bottle with a brush in
its lid. *(I was still suffering sticker shock & trying to be as frugal
with it as possible G) *Good for small things, not so for bigger ones..

Regarding diluting it: I think "1:4 with kerosine" means 1 part LPS3 & 4
parts kero, but that seems like it would be really thin. *Or is it the
other way around?

Bob

I dilute it roughly in half by eye when I refill the "MIXED" gallon
jug, and then in half again in the spray bottle, or use it as-is for
the needle oiler or to coat the inside of air compressor tanks. So
it's one part LPS-3 to perhaps 3 or 4 of kerosine. If the spray nozzle
clogs it needs more kerosine.

The needle oiler is for hardware on vehicles and garden equipment. 20
year old bolts loosen easily.

The thinned liquid seems to soak into rust better without leaving a
surface deposit to be lost to dust or rain or tire splash. In my
experience a coating I can barely feel is adequate for at least half a
year. Some machined parts on my front end loader are still shiny after
5 years.

jsw

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

And, what does that mean?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

I'm told that LPS-1 "non oily" is good lube for
locks.
ATF

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 12:47:28 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
Bob Engelhardt wrote:
...
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhar...anAdapter2.jpg
...

I did that too. Mine looks amazingly similar to yours, Bob, except
that mine isn't nearly as shiney.

Oh, that means that yours is older than mine, which means that I
probably copied yours. Thanks, Don.

Bob

I think we probably both copied heads out of aerosol cans.

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:42:12 -0600, the infamous Don Foreman
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 12:47:28 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
Bob Engelhardt wrote:
...
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhar...anAdapter2.jpg
...

I did that too. Mine looks amazingly similar to yours, Bob, except
that mine isn't nearly as shiney.

Oh, that means that yours is older than mine, which means that I
probably copied yours. Thanks, Don.

Bob

I think we probably both copied heads out of aerosol cans.

I missed the first part of this thread. What are these things for? It
looks like a propane-to-rattle-can adapter, maybe used to repressurize
flat spray cans.

--
An author spends months writing a book, and maybe puts his
heart's blood into it, and then it lies about unread till
the reader has nothing else in the world to do.
-- W. Somerset Maugham, The Razor's Edge, 1943

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Mar 4, 7:17*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
...
I missed the first part of this thread. What are these things for? It
looks like a propane-to-rattle-can adapter, maybe used to repressurize
flat spray cans.

Makes them round again.

If propane doesn't quickly dissolve into the contents it can
overpressure the can, that's why I used butane.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pr...re-d_1020.html

Spray cans do not fail gracefully. I'd rather not post the details as
others might try and not be so lucky.

jsw

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 04:17:53 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:42:12 -0600, the infamous Don Foreman
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 12:47:28 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
Bob Engelhardt wrote:
...
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhar...anAdapter2.jpg
...

I did that too. Mine looks amazingly similar to yours, Bob, except
that mine isn't nearly as shiney.

Oh, that means that yours is older than mine, which means that I
probably copied yours. Thanks, Don.

Bob

I think we probably both copied heads out of aerosol cans.

I missed the first part of this thread. What are these things for? It
looks like a propane-to-rattle-can adapter, maybe used to repressurize
flat spray cans.

Give that man a silver dollar.

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Mar 4, 1:47*pm, "William Wixon" wrote:
...
...how do you know now much gas to put in
the aerosol can? *it is a "by ear" thing or is it not possible to over
pressurize a paint can using a propane tank?
b.w.

The quick test is to dent the side in a little with your thumb. Try
that with a new can to get the feel.

jsw

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...

You can re-pressurize aerosol cans with propane. I made an adapter for
recharging paint rattle cans:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhar...anAdapter2.jpg

It screws into the valve of a propane torch. I.e., in place of the
tube. Aerosol cans have different style valves & each style requires its
own adapter.

Bob


that's pretty cool bob (and don).
just curious, the obvious question, how do you know now much gas to put in
the aerosol can? it is a "by ear" thing or is it not possible to over
pressurize a paint can using a propane tank?

b.w.

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 4, 1:47 pm, "William Wixon" wrote:
...
...how do you know now much gas to put in
the aerosol can? it is a "by ear" thing or is it not possible to over
pressurize a paint can using a propane tank?
b.w.

The quick test is to dent the side in a little with your thumb. Try
that with a new can to get the feel.

jsw

We obviously have some thrillseekers on the group G

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Mar 4, 1:58*pm, RBnDFW wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 4, 1:47 pm, "William Wixon" wrote:
...
...how do you know now much gas to put in
the aerosol can? *it is a "by ear" thing or is it not possible to over
pressurize a paint can using a propane tank?
b.w.

The quick test is to dent the side in a little with your thumb. Try
that with a new can to get the feel.

jsw

We obviously have some thrillseekers on the group G

It's funny, among the most dangerous things I've done was UL safety
testing.

jsw

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 04:44:57 -0800 (PST), the infamous Jim Wilkins
scrawled the following:

On Mar 4, 7:17*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
...
I missed the first part of this thread. What are these things for? It
looks like a propane-to-rattle-can adapter, maybe used to repressurize
flat spray cans.

Makes them round again.

If propane doesn't quickly dissolve into the contents it can
overpressure the can, that's why I used butane.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pr...re-d_1020.html

Spray cans do not fail gracefully. I'd rather not post the details as
others might try and not be so lucky.

Ouch! Scratch that off my list of possible cool tools to have/make.

--
An author spends months writing a book, and maybe puts his
heart's blood into it, and then it lies about unread till
the reader has nothing else in the world to do.
-- W. Somerset Maugham, The Razor's Edge, 1943

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 12:47:08 -0600, "William Wixon"
wrote:


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...

You can re-pressurize aerosol cans with propane. I made an adapter for
recharging paint rattle cans:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhar...anAdapter2.jpg

It screws into the valve of a propane torch. I.e., in place of the
tube. Aerosol cans have different style valves & each style requires its
own adapter.

Bob


that's pretty cool bob (and don).
just curious, the obvious question, how do you know now much gas to put in
the aerosol can? it is a "by ear" thing or is it not possible to over
pressurize a paint can using a propane tank?

b.w.

The latter. Let it take all it will. The pressure won't (can't)
exceed the vapor pressure of propane. At 100 deg F the vapor pressure
of propane is 172 PSIG. Cans can handle considerably more than that.
Propane is used as propellant in some rattlecans.

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:26:15 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 04:44:57 -0800 (PST), the infamous Jim Wilkins
scrawled the following:

On Mar 4, 7:17*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
...
I missed the first part of this thread. What are these things for? It
looks like a propane-to-rattle-can adapter, maybe used to repressurize
flat spray cans.

Makes them round again.

If propane doesn't quickly dissolve into the contents it can
overpressure the can, that's why I used butane.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pr...re-d_1020.html

Spray cans do not fail gracefully. I'd rather not post the details as
others might try and not be so lucky.

Ouch! Scratch that off my list of possible cool tools to have/make.

And you gave me **** about shying from a 40-joule ICD mulekick when
TIG welding, you macho devil-may-care dawg!

Not knocking prudence, caution and dainty demurral, but note: it
takes about 150 PSIG to pop a plastic (PET) beverage bottle. Metal
cans are smaller and stronger than plastic bottles.

I don't know if dissolution into content lowers vapor pressure or not,
and if so what the time constant might be, I'll defer to Wilkins on
chemistry. That said, I can report that I have recharged and saved
many rattlecans with propane over a period of at least two decades
with no mishaps.

If a spraycan did fail ungracefully it'd make a pop and a mess but
it'd just rupture, no shrapnel. Wearing protective eyeware should be
SOP in the shop anyway and this is a shop activity, not one to be
practiced in milady's parlor.

Pick yer pony, take yer ride ... or walk behind far enough that you
feel safe. G

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Mar 5, 2:02*am, Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:26:15 -0800, Larry Jaques





wrote:
On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 04:44:57 -0800 (PST), the infamous Jim Wilkins
scrawled the following:

On Mar 4, 7:17*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
...
I missed the first part of this thread. What are these things for? It
looks like a propane-to-rattle-can adapter, maybe used to repressurize
flat spray cans.

Makes them round again.

If propane doesn't quickly dissolve into the contents it can
overpressure the can, that's why I used butane.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pr...re-d_1020.html

Spray cans do not fail gracefully. I'd rather not post the details as
others might try and not be so lucky.

Ouch! *Scratch that off my list of possible cool tools to have/make.

And you gave me **** about shying from a 40-joule ICD mulekick when
TIG welding, you macho devil-may-care dawg! *

Not knocking prudence, caution and dainty demurral, *but note: it
takes about 150 PSIG to pop a plastic (PET) beverage bottle. *Metal
cans are smaller and stronger than plastic bottles. *

You tried it? I'd read that they take 200. Never went over 100 myself.

I don't know if dissolution into content lowers vapor pressure or not,
and if so what the time constant might be, I'll defer to Wilkins on
chemistry. That said, I can report that I have recharged and saved
many rattlecans with propane over a period of at least two decades
with no mishaps.

If a spraycan did fail ungracefully it'd make a pop and a mess *but
it'd just rupture, no shrapnel. *Wearing protective eyeware should be
SOP in the shop anyway and this is a shop activity, not one to be
practiced in milady's parlor.

I don't know the pressure ratings, and it definitely varies with
construction. Long ago I read that they were supposed to withstand
180F without rupturing. I checked because one of my lab manager tasks
was turning off soldering irons after everyone had left, and I found a
heat gun running near flux remover cans.

I tested them in a remote sandpit in a rural area where random
gunshots etc didn't attract attention. Some blew out fairly harmlessly
when an end seam unrolled, others ripped apart at the lengthwise seam,
flattened out and became flying saw blades. Thus the warning.

The safer test is to puncture the bottom, fill them with water, plug
the hole and freeze them, preferably outdoors instead of smelling up
the fridge.

jsw

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:26:15 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 04:44:57 -0800 (PST), the infamous Jim Wilkins
scrawled the following:

On Mar 4, 7:17*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
...
I missed the first part of this thread. What are these things for? It
looks like a propane-to-rattle-can adapter, maybe used to repressurize
flat spray cans.

Makes them round again.

If propane doesn't quickly dissolve into the contents it can
overpressure the can, that's why I used butane.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pr...re-d_1020.html

Spray cans do not fail gracefully. I'd rather not post the details as
others might try and not be so lucky.

Ouch! Scratch that off my list of possible cool tools to have/make.

And you gave me **** about shying from a 40-joule ICD mulekick when
TIG welding, you macho devil-may-care dawg!

Not knocking prudence, caution and dainty demurral, but note: it
takes about 150 PSIG to pop a plastic (PET) beverage bottle. Metal
cans are smaller and stronger than plastic bottles.

I don't know if dissolution into content lowers vapor pressure or not,
and if so what the time constant might be, I'll defer to Wilkins on
chemistry.

Dissolution has no effect on vapor pressure whatsoever.

More generally, if you take each ingredient and put it alone in the can and
measure the pressure one by one, all at the same pressure, the pressure of the
mixture is the sum of the individual partial pressures.

This is called Dalton's Law of Partial Pressures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalton%27s_law


Joe Gwinn

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Mar 5, 9:42*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
...
Dissolution has no effect on vapor pressure whatsoever.
...
Joe Gwinn

http://www.chem.purdue.edu/gchelp/so...s/colligv.html

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

In article ,
Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Mar 5, 9:42*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
...
Dissolution has no effect on vapor pressure whatsoever.
...
Joe Gwinn

http://www.chem.purdue.edu/gchelp/so...s/colligv.html

Ideal gas law versus real substances. How big is the deviation?

Joe Gwinn

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 01:02:34 -0600, the infamous Don Foreman
scrawled the following:

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:26:15 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 04:44:57 -0800 (PST), the infamous Jim Wilkins
scrawled the following:

On Mar 4, 7:17*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
...
I missed the first part of this thread. What are these things for? It
looks like a propane-to-rattle-can adapter, maybe used to repressurize
flat spray cans.

Makes them round again.

If propane doesn't quickly dissolve into the contents it can
overpressure the can, that's why I used butane.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pr...re-d_1020.html

Spray cans do not fail gracefully. I'd rather not post the details as
others might try and not be so lucky.

Ouch! Scratch that off my list of possible cool tools to have/make.

And you gave me **** about shying from a 40-joule ICD mulekick when
TIG welding, you macho devil-may-care dawg!

Har! That's a simple mulekick. I'm worried about paint or adhesive
embedded into all 400 boardfeet of Jarrah lumber in my shop. Cleanup
would exceed 2 full work-weeks, I'm sure.

I _would_ like to refill the little propane bottles from the 5gal
tank, though.


Not knocking prudence, caution and dainty demurral, but note: it
takes about 150 PSIG to pop a plastic (PET) beverage bottle. Metal
cans are smaller and stronger than plastic bottles.

I don't know if dissolution into content lowers vapor pressure or not,
and if so what the time constant might be, I'll defer to Wilkins on
chemistry. That said, I can report that I have recharged and saved
many rattlecans with propane over a period of at least two decades
with no mishaps.

I'd say that's a pretty good history.


If a spraycan did fail ungracefully it'd make a pop and a mess but
it'd just rupture, no shrapnel. Wearing protective eyeware should be
SOP in the shop anyway and this is a shop activity, not one to be
practiced in milady's parlor.

I've seen one go. They DEFINITELY are not pretty.


Pick yer pony, take yer ride ... or walk behind far enough that you
feel safe. G

Thass right! I bought one of the little refillable aerosol cans and
could puncture the spray can and drain it into that if needed. It
definitely does NOT work with latex paint, my original purpose. I
forgot to ask first. :(

--
An author spends months writing a book, and maybe puts his
heart's blood into it, and then it lies about unread till
the reader has nothing else in the world to do.
-- W. Somerset Maugham, The Razor's Edge, 1943

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 01:02:34 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:26:15 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 04:44:57 -0800 (PST), the infamous Jim Wilkins
scrawled the following:

On Mar 4, 7:17Â*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
...
I missed the first part of this thread. What are these things for? It
looks like a propane-to-rattle-can adapter, maybe used to repressurize
flat spray cans.

Makes them round again.

If propane doesn't quickly dissolve into the contents it can
overpressure the can, that's why I used butane.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pr...re-d_1020.html

Spray cans do not fail gracefully. I'd rather not post the details as
others might try and not be so lucky.

Ouch! Scratch that off my list of possible cool tools to have/make.

And you gave me **** about shying from a 40-joule ICD mulekick when
TIG welding, you macho devil-may-care dawg!

Not knocking prudence, caution and dainty demurral, but note: it
takes about 150 PSIG to pop a plastic (PET) beverage bottle. Metal
cans are smaller and stronger than plastic bottles.

I don't know if dissolution into content lowers vapor pressure or not,
and if so what the time constant might be, I'll defer to Wilkins on
chemistry. That said, I can report that I have recharged and saved
many rattlecans with propane over a period of at least two decades
with no mishaps.

If a spraycan did fail ungracefully it'd make a pop and a mess but
it'd just rupture, no shrapnel. Wearing protective eyeware should be
SOP in the shop anyway and this is a shop activity, not one to be
practiced in milady's parlor.

Pick yer pony, take yer ride ... or walk behind far enough that you
feel safe. G


One H of a mess when a paint can splits though!!!!!!!

Alternatives to LPS-2
 

On Mar 5, 11:26*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
*Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Mar 5, 9:42*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
...
Dissolution has no effect on vapor pressure whatsoever.
...
Joe Gwinn

*http://www.chem.purdue.edu/gchelp/so...s/colligv.html

Ideal gas law versus real substances. *How big is the deviation?

Joe Gwinn

Enormous, order(s) of magnitude. Consider acetylene dissolved in
acetone:
http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/metal...Acetylene.html
"At atmospheric pressure and 15 deg. Cent, acetone dissolves 24 times
its volume of acetylene."

jsw

Vapor pressure of mixtures (was Alternatives to LPS-2)
 

In article ,
Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Mar 5, 11:26*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article
,
*Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Mar 5, 9:42*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
...
Dissolution has no effect on vapor pressure whatsoever.
...
Joe Gwinn

*http://www.chem.purdue.edu/gchelp/solutions/colligv.html

Ideal gas law versus real substances. *How big is the deviation?

Joe Gwinn

Enormous, order(s) of magnitude. Consider acetylene dissolved in
acetone:
http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/metal...Acetylene.html
"At atmospheric pressure and 15 deg. Cent, acetone dissolves 24 times
its volume of acetylene."

That's an interesting article on acetone storage of acetylene.

But something is perplexing me. In the above Purdue reference, the key sentence
echoes Dalton's Law of Partial Pressures:

"A volatile solute (i.e., a solute that has a vapor pressure of its own) will
contribute to the vapor pressure above a solution in which it is dissolved. The
vapor pressure above a solution containing a volatile solute (or solutes) is
equal to the sum of the vapor pressures of the solvent and each of the volatile
solutes."

I think I'll look this up in my Physical Chem textbook.

Joe Gwinn

Vapor pressure of mixtures (was Alternatives to LPS-2)
 

On Mar 6, 10:50*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
*Jim Wilkins wrote:





On Mar 5, 11:26 am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article
,
Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Mar 5, 9:42 am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
...
Dissolution has no effect on vapor pressure whatsoever.
...
Joe Gwinn

http://www.chem.purdue.edu/gchelp/solutions/colligv.html

Ideal gas law versus real substances. How big is the deviation?

Joe Gwinn

Enormous, order(s) of magnitude. Consider acetylene dissolved in
acetone:
http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/metal...issolved-Acety...
"At atmospheric pressure and 15 deg. Cent, acetone dissolves 24 times
its volume of acetylene."

That's an interesting article on acetone storage of acetylene.

But something is perplexing me. *In the above Purdue reference, the key sentence
echoes Dalton's Law of Partial Pressures:

"A volatile solute (i.e., a solute that has a vapor pressure of its own) will
contribute to the vapor pressure above a solution in which it is dissolved. The
vapor pressure above a solution containing a volatile solute (or solutes) is
equal to the sum of the vapor pressures of the solvent and each of the volatile
solutes."

I think I'll look this up in my Physical Chem textbook.

Joe Gwinn

Does it make sense to you if you think of the fraction in gas phase as
a gas and the fraction in the dissolved liquid phase as a liquid?
Liquids are 500 ~ 1000 times denser than gases.

Otherwise, sorry, chemistry isn't at all intuitive, at least until you
learn thermodynamics. An understanding of the fundamentals of
chemistry eluded Sir Isaac Newton despite his achievements in math and
physics, .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton's_occult_studies

jsw

Vapor pressure of mixtures (was Alternatives to LPS-2)
 

What about recharging various aerosol products' cans with freon or other
commonly available compounds?
Other compounds.. canned air/duster products (difluoroethane)?

I realize that saving/recovering a bit of cheap product isn't worth a safety
risk, and I wouldn't have a pressing reason to recharge an aerosol can, but
if I did, I'd recharge it outdoors and use the contents at that time or not
take the can indoors.

I'm primarily just curious about propellants. Those heavy duty refillable
spray containers that are intended to be charged with compressed air don't
perform very well with compressed air.
For outdoor use, using one of those refillable sprayer gizmos might be more
practical than running a long air hose or portable air compressor with a
paint gun outdoors.
http://www.prodcatalog.com/catalog/O...ime=image/jpeg

http://weldwarehouse.securesites.com/cgi-bin/spider.pl?99532||1|451

--
WB
..........


"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...

Enormous, order(s) of magnitude. Consider acetylene dissolved in
acetone:
http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/metal...issolved-Acety...
"At atmospheric pressure and 15 deg. Cent, acetone dissolves 24 times
its volume of acetylene."

That's an interesting article on acetone storage of acetylene.

But something is perplexing me. In the above Purdue reference, the key
sentence
echoes Dalton's Law of Partial Pressures:

"A volatile solute (i.e., a solute that has a vapor pressure of its own)
will
contribute to the vapor pressure above a solution in which it is
dissolved. The
vapor pressure above a solution containing a volatile solute (or solutes)
is
equal to the sum of the vapor pressures of the solvent and each of the
volatile
solutes."

I think I'll look this up in my Physical Chem textbook.

Joe Gwinn

Does it make sense to you if you think of the fraction in gas phase as
a gas and the fraction in the dissolved liquid phase as a liquid?
Liquids are 500 ~ 1000 times denser than gases.

Otherwise, sorry, chemistry isn't at all intuitive, at least until you
learn thermodynamics. An understanding of the fundamentals of
chemistry eluded Sir Isaac Newton despite his achievements in math and
physics, .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton's_occult_studies

jsw