Even though this speech is fictitious it is a good read.

http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/comp...nic_speech.htm

Any REAL business owners want to comment on it?

As a former owner myself I see a LOT of truth in the way he says small
businesses operate and what happens to the money. Just a shame that the
rest of the people don't know it, YET.

--
Steve W.

On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:26:00 -0500, the renowned "Steve W."
wrote:

Even though this speech is fictitious it is a good read.

http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/comp...nic_speech.htm

Any REAL business owners want to comment on it?

As a former owner myself I see a LOT of truth in the way he says small
businesses operate and what happens to the money. Just a shame that the
rest of the people don't know it, YET.

With a pre-tax profit of a measly half a million dollars a year and
187 employees (presumably revenue in the $30-60 million range) they
really need to look SERIOUSLY at offshore outsourcing. ;-) Then at
least they'd have a handsome profit to tax.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Even though this speech is fictitious it is a good read.

http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/comp...nic_speech.htm

Any REAL business owners want to comment on it?

As a former owner myself I see a LOT of truth in the way he says small
businesses operate and what happens to the money. Just a shame that the
rest of the people don't know it, YET.

--
Steve W.

Liberals won't read it or they will say it's all lies or that the government
deserves ALL the company's profits...after all, profit is a dirty word!
They don't get it and never will. I have YET to meet a liberal small
business owner, why is that?

On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:40:08 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Even though this speech is fictitious it is a good read.

http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/comp...nic_speech.htm

Any REAL business owners want to comment on it?

As a former owner myself I see a LOT of truth in the way he says small
businesses operate and what happens to the money. Just a shame that the
rest of the people don't know it, YET.

--
Steve W.

Liberals won't read it or they will say it's all lies or that the government
deserves ALL the company's profits...after all, profit is a dirty word!
They don't get it and never will. I have YET to meet a liberal small
business owner, why is that?

Because if they were smart enough to own a business..and keep it
running..they would be smart enough to know that being a liberal is for
morons and would become a conservative.

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:40:08 -0500, Buerste wrote:

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Even though this speech is fictitious it is a good read.

http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/comp...nic_speech.htm

Any REAL business owners want to comment on it?

As a former owner myself I see a LOT of truth in the way he says small
businesses operate and what happens to the money. Just a shame that the
rest of the people don't know it, YET.

--
Steve W.

Liberals won't read it or they will say it's all lies or that the
government deserves ALL the company's profits...after all, profit is a
dirty word! They don't get it and never will. I have YET to meet a
liberal small business owner, why is that?

Can you guys explain how this works? Mr. Rogers' fictitious businessman
claims that his income ($534000) is also his expansion and working
capital. He mentions in passing that he can count it as expense (i.e.
subtract from taxable profit), but only in the subsequent year.
Interesting if true---his advertising cost can't really be expensed
against current revenue?

In any case, if he runs the business year in and year out, it should
average out---he should have in-kind expenses from previous years to
offset the current year profit. If he doesn't, then he's disingenuous
about putting back most of his profit back into the business. It's his
money and business, of course, so he can do whatever he wants, except
misrepresenting what is really happening.

The only way his argument might make sense to me is if he couldn't spend
the money on expanding his business in a particular year, forcing him to
pay higher taxes in this year--but to purposely avoid investing seems to
me like a lose-lose strategy (losing on taxes, and the lost opportunity
cost for the business expansion)

On Dec 22, 8:26*am, "Steve W." wrote:
Even though this speech is fictitious it is a good read.

http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/comp...nic_speech.htm

Any REAL business owners want to comment on it?

As a former owner myself I see a LOT of truth in the way he says small
businesses operate and what happens to the money. Just a shame that the
rest of the people don't know it, YET.

--
Steve W.

Mm - this is ludicrous - how come you guys totally suspend any
semblance of rational analysis when it comes to politics? - if someone
was trying to sell you a machine, you would investigate claims
thoroughly and then decide.....

From afar, and not being cognizant of the American tax law, I would
suggest that:-

Firstly, he gets a competent tax accountant.

He has the business structured in the worst possible way, where all
profits accrue to him. Here, what he would do is form a company with,
say, 5 shares - he holds 3, his wife/kid hold the other two. The
company pays him a salary each year, say $100k. Is your personal tax
rate more or less than your company tax rate? - dunno, but whatever it
is factor it in. Even 1 man businesses do it here.

In a good year, the company pays a dividend to shareholders, in a bad
year, or where capital will be needed to expand, no dividend is
declared. And as he is the majority shareholder and ceo and everything
else, no problem in this.

And finally - the REAL killer in this one - he makes a profit of
$534000 a year. He has 157 employees. He can afford to pay them a max
of $3400 for salary next year.. Does this sound right to you? - and
this is assuming he wont pay ANY tax, has any expenses, and the part
timers work for free.......

The other "facts" and figures - I have no way of knowing the veracity
of any of them, but I do note that blatant lies, even when refuted
thoroughly, are the major portion of political debate. So I rely on
simple maths for a simple answer to these things - the rest, well, its
your problem. Maybe we do get the government(s) we deserve....

Andrew VK3BFA.

On Dec 23, 7:30*am, Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
...
From afar, and not being cognizant of the American tax law, I would
suggest that:-
....
Andrew VK3BFA.

The people in charge don't know it either.
A small sample:
http://www.morebusiness.com/getting_...d934832501.brc

jsw

On Dec 23, 12:30*pm, Andrew VK3BFA wrote:


From afar, and not being cognizant of the American tax law, I would
suggest that:-

Firstly, he gets a competent tax accountant.

He has the business structured in the worst possible way, where all
profits accrue to him. Here, what he would do is form a company with,
say, 5 shares - he holds 3, his wife/kid hold the other two. The
company pays him a salary each year, say $100k. Is your personal tax
rate more or less than your company tax rate? - dunno, but whatever it
is factor it in. Even 1 man businesses do it here.


And finally - the REAL killer in this one - he makes a profit of
$534000 a year. He has 157 employees. He can afford to pay them a max
of $3400 for salary next year.. Does this sound right to you? - and
this is assuming he wont pay ANY tax, has any expenses, and the part
timers work for free.......

The other "facts" and figures - I have no way of knowing the veracity
of any of them, but I do note that blatant lies, even when refuted
thoroughly, are the major portion of political debate. So I rely on
simple maths for a simple answer to these things - the rest, well, its
your problem. Maybe we do get the government(s) we deserve....

Andrew VK3BFA.

You did note that he had the company organized as a subchapter S
corporation. This is probably the best, not the worst way for him to
have the business organized. As a subchapter S corp. there is no
double taxation. If it were not a subchapter S corp, the business
would pay taxes on the $534,000. Then he would pay taxes on any money
he took out. So it would be taxed twice.

Your real killer is wrong. He has a profit after paying employees of
$534,000. His payroll is more like 157 times say $30,000. That
would be 4.7 million dollars. No blatant lies.


Dan

On Dec 22, 12:00*am, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:


With a pre-tax profit of a measly half a million dollars a year and
187 employees (presumably revenue in the $30-60 million range) they
really need to look SERIOUSLY at offshore outsourcing. ;-) Then at
least they'd have a handsome profit to tax. *

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Since he has a chain of tire shops, how does he offshore outsource?
Ship the customers cars to China to get new tires installed?


Dan

The 534k, you're right that it divides out to 3.4k per year
per employee. I'd have to guess that profit is the money
left over after the expenses, including wages. I'd have to
sit down with a pad and pen, to make sense of all these
numbers.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...

http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/comp...nic_speech.htm


And finally - the REAL killer in this one - he makes a
profit of
$534000 a year. He has 157 employees. He can afford to pay
them a max
of $3400 for salary next year.. Does this sound right to
you? - and
this is assuming he wont pay ANY tax, has any expenses, and
the part
timers work for free.......

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
The 534k, you're right that it divides out to 3.4k per year
per employee. I'd have to guess that profit is the money
left over after the expenses, including wages. I'd have to
sit down with a pad and pen, to make sense of all these
numbers.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...

http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/comp...nic_speech.htm


And finally - the REAL killer in this one - he makes a
profit of
$534000 a year. He has 157 employees. He can afford to pay
them a max
of $3400 for salary next year.. Does this sound right to
you? - and
this is assuming he wont pay ANY tax, has any expenses, and
the part
timers work for free.......



With a business, every dollar you spend on the business, eventually comes
off the bottom line. Vehicles, property, equipment all get amortized. Wages,
benefits, heat, light, fuel, etcetera, all get directly expensed.

The retail tire business usually runs at about a 2.5% profit margin after
all these deductions.
So the $534000 is what's left from about 22 million in gross sales.
If he's doing better than 2.5%, it is because he's too big a skinflint to
give his 157 full time employees insurance.


Paul K. Dickman

"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 8:26 am, "Steve W." wrote:
Even though this speech is fictitious it is a good read.

http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/comp...nic_speech.htm

Any REAL business owners want to comment on it?

As a former owner myself I see a LOT of truth in the way he says small
businesses operate and what happens to the money. Just a shame that the
rest of the people don't know it, YET.

--
Steve W.

Mm - this is ludicrous - how come you guys totally suspend any
semblance of rational analysis when it comes to politics? - if someone
was trying to sell you a machine, you would investigate claims
thoroughly and then decide.....

From afar, and not being cognizant of the American tax law, I would
suggest that:-

Firstly, he gets a competent tax accountant.

He has the business structured in the worst possible way, where all
profits accrue to him. Here, what he would do is form a company with,
say, 5 shares - he holds 3, his wife/kid hold the other two. The
company pays him a salary each year, say $100k. Is your personal tax
rate more or less than your company tax rate? - dunno, but whatever it
is factor it in. Even 1 man businesses do it here.

In a good year, the company pays a dividend to shareholders, in a bad
year, or where capital will be needed to expand, no dividend is
declared. And as he is the majority shareholder and ceo and everything
else, no problem in this.

And finally - the REAL killer in this one - he makes a profit of
$534000 a year. He has 157 employees. He can afford to pay them a max
of $3400 for salary next year.. Does this sound right to you? - and
this is assuming he wont pay ANY tax, has any expenses, and the part
timers work for free.......

The other "facts" and figures - I have no way of knowing the veracity
of any of them, but I do note that blatant lies, even when refuted
thoroughly, are the major portion of political debate. So I rely on
simple maths for a simple answer to these things - the rest, well, its
your problem. Maybe we do get the government(s) we deserve....

Andrew VK3BFA.

Reply:
It is profit. That left after paying salaries, and expenses. If a
corporation, non S corp, etc. then you pay corporate taxes and the dividends
are taxed at a lesser rate as they have already been taxed, but total tax is
greater. Where the story errs is he can not buy another business, capital
equipment with the "profits" and shield the profits. They are still profit
and taxed and he can use depreciation to save some the next few years, but
the money is taxed now, and you may recover some over the next 7 years. Or
whatever the depreciation cycle is now. Only place you can shield the
profit is on a Family Farm. Buy another farm, etc, and any taxes are
deferred. Is a current expense. Tyson Farms, multi-billion buck operation
qualifies.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 05:08:18 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 22, 12:00*am, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:


With a pre-tax profit of a measly half a million dollars a year and
187 employees (presumably revenue in the $30-60 million range) they
really need to look SERIOUSLY at offshore outsourcing. ;-) Then at
least they'd have a handsome profit to tax. *

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Since he has a chain of tire shops, how does he offshore outsource?
Ship the customers cars to China to get new tires installed?


Dan

Maybe consolidate all the back office stuff and outsource it.
Franchise the locations.

That's a very labor intensive business, so the revenue per employee
averages only $140,000**, making his total Subchapter-S personal
revenue in the $25-30 million range. From this he's claiming to be
making only about 2%, or perhaps 1% after taxes. Not really enough for
a viable business-- even tire shops need investments in facelifts and
improvements over time.

OTOH, he should be absolutely livid about the Obama administration
imposing punitive anti-free-trade tariffs on Chinese tires though,
because that will directly affect his sales by raising costs and
reducing his sales-- just to appease the USW.

http://tireindustry.org/pdf/news_arc...ease091409.pdf


*http://www.firstresearch.com/Industr...e-Dealers.html