Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generatorpart
For my eventual move to Oz, I will be building my own motor/generator to
power those tools that cannot be converted to 3phase. Don't plan to run many items at once, I'm thinking about maybe a 4kw generator. What's a good reliable generator at the output end? Going to try to find one with a bad engine, but want to make sure the other half will last a while given the expense of having a replacement shipped over.... And yeah, I'm planning on taking spare parts for it. Jon |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about thegenerator part
On Nov 21, 12:59*pm, Jon Anderson wrote:
For my eventual move to Oz, I will be building my own motor/generator to power those tools that cannot be converted to 3phase. Don't plan to run many items at once, I'm thinking about maybe a 4kw generator. What's a good reliable generator at the output end? Going to try to find one with a bad engine, but want to make sure the other half will last a while given the expense of having a replacement shipped over.... And yeah, I'm planning on taking spare parts for it. Jon http://www.georator.com/ |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generator part
"Jon Anderson" wrote in message ... For my eventual move to Oz, I will be building my own motor/generator to power those tools that cannot be converted to 3phase. Don't plan to run many items at once, I'm thinking about maybe a 4kw generator. What's a good reliable generator at the output end? Going to try to find one with a bad engine, but want to make sure the other half will last a while given the expense of having a replacement shipped over.... And yeah, I'm planning on taking spare parts for it. May not fit your needs, but conside a WinPower PTO generator. They are built to last forever and a small tractor powers them. Bet they got tractors in OZ. I've had mine thirty years and had to add oil once, and then replace the tires cause they rotted out. Mine is 15KW but it takes my large tractor if I need that much. I've run the house lights with an old 8N ford tractor. Karl |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generatorpart
Karl Townsend wrote:
May not fit your needs, but conside a WinPower PTO generator. They are built to last forever and a small tractor powers them. Might be overkill, but sure sounds like it's worth looking into! Going to be shipping at least one container, so size isn't a huge issue. I sure like the 'built to last forever' part! Thanks, Jon |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generator part
"Jon Anderson" wrote in message ... Karl Townsend wrote: May not fit your needs, but conside a WinPower PTO generator. They are built to last forever and a small tractor powers them. Might be overkill, but sure sounds like it's worth looking into! Going to be shipping at least one container, so size isn't a huge issue. I sure like the 'built to last forever' part! if you're anywhere near the midwest, virtually every large farm acution has one. They very seldom bring $1K, often 1/2 that.. many auctioneers are going online so you wouldn't have to waste the day waiting for it to sell. Karl |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generatorpart
I think Onan is (was?) the king of good gensets. Their 1800 rpm versions
really nice. But EXPENSIVE parts. If you buy a regular genset with engine, keep in mind that almost all of them have only one bearing on the generator section. they use a tapered shaft coupling to hook it to the engine, use the engine output bearing to support one end of the rotor. This means that swapping out a bad engine is not anywhere as easy as you might expect. You need the specific crankshaft that came with the original setup. If you trash an engine badly, you have to buy the new engine AND a new crankshaft with the correct taper (almost impossible to get the new engine with the correct taper) The generator itself is pretty reliable. If the windings are big enough to handle the loads, there isn't much else. The bearings of course, a couple of diodes, brushes if they are there, that's it. Karl mentioned the PTO setup. A great way to go. Jon Anderson wrote: For my eventual move to Oz, I will be building my own motor/generator to power those tools that cannot be converted to 3phase. Don't plan to run many items at once, I'm thinking about maybe a 4kw generator. What's a good reliable generator at the output end? Going to try to find one with a bad engine, but want to make sure the other half will last a while given the expense of having a replacement shipped over.... And yeah, I'm planning on taking spare parts for it. Jon |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generator part
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:59:50 -0800, the infamous Jon Anderson
scrawled the following: For my eventual move to Oz, I will be building my own motor/generator to power those tools that cannot be converted to 3phase. Don't plan to run many items at once, I'm thinking about maybe a 4kw generator. What's a good reliable generator at the output end? Going to try to find one with a bad engine, but want to make sure the other half will last a while given the expense of having a replacement shipped over.... And yeah, I'm planning on taking spare parts for it. Why don't you swing by Chiwan on the way over to Oz and pick up an entire unit, Jon? -- We have too many high sounding words, and too few actions that correspond with them. -- Abigail Adams, letter to John Adams, 1774 |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generatorpart
Larry Jaques wrote:
Why don't you swing by Chiwan on the way over to Oz and pick up an entire unit, Jon? GACK! I'm trying to accumulate as much good ol' USofA tools as I can before I go. I looked up the units Karl suggested, serious overkill, but if I can find one cheap enough... Jon |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generator part
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:12:41 -0800, the infamous Jon Anderson
scrawled the following: Larry Jaques wrote: Why don't you swing by Chiwan on the way over to Oz and pick up an entire unit, Jon? GACK! I thought you'd like that. snicker I'm trying to accumulate as much good ol' USofA tools as I can before I go. I looked up the units Karl suggested, serious overkill, but if I can find one cheap enough... Yeah, with all the machines you have now, I guess another ton or two won't hurt. -- We have too many high sounding words, and too few actions that correspond with them. -- Abigail Adams, letter to John Adams, 1774 |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generatorpart
Larry Jaques wrote:
Yeah, with all the machines you have now, I guess another ton or two won't hurt. Weight's not my issue, weight-wise everything would easily be handled by a single 20' container. Volume is the issue. Would love to just use a 40' container, but storage there would be an issue. Wife's got friends that would store a 20' until I had somewhere to put things, but not a 40. And, you've seen my driveway, loading a 40'er here and getting it onto a truck would not be trivial by any means! Man, the thought of winching machines uphill into a container with a wooden floor.... Still working on my 3D CAD loadout trying to see just what I might be able to squeeze in. Jon |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about thegenerator part
On Nov 21, 9:59*am, Jon Anderson wrote:
For my eventual move to Oz, I will be building my own motor/generator to power those tools that cannot be converted to 3phase. Don't plan to run many items at once, I'm thinking about maybe a 4kw generator. What's a good reliable generator at the output end? Going to try to find one with a bad engine, but want to make sure the other half will last a while given the expense of having a replacement shipped over.... And yeah, I'm planning on taking spare parts for it. Jon Don't generators in OZ turn opposite to US? Paul |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generator part
In article ,
Jon Anderson wrote: What's a good reliable generator at the output end? Going to try to find one with a bad engine, but want to make sure the other half will last a while given the expense of having a replacement shipped over.... Northern Lights. Finding one with a bad engine may be a problem - the whole unit works pretty reliably, but I guess you might find one with an owner that didn't change the oil or something. They make land-based units, but are more prevalent as a marine unit. That's a good thing for worldwide parts availability. Makes little difference (land or marine) if you are just grabbing the generator end. I can make a few suggestions about using a marine unit on land if you went that route, as I am doing that. IMHO, 1800 or 1200 RPM (for 60 hz) units are the only reliable ones out there - 3600 tend to have short lifetimes. -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generator part
"Ecnerwal" wrote in message ... In article , Jon Anderson wrote: What's a good reliable generator at the output end? Going to try to find one with a bad engine, but want to make sure the other half will last a while given the expense of having a replacement shipped over.... Northern Lights. Finding one with a bad engine may be a problem - the whole unit works pretty reliably, but I guess you might find one with an owner that didn't change the oil or something. They make land-based units, but are more prevalent as a marine unit. That's a good thing for worldwide parts availability. Makes little difference (land or marine) if you are just grabbing the generator end. I can make a few suggestions about using a marine unit on land if you went that route, as I am doing that. IMHO, 1800 or 1200 RPM (for 60 hz) units are the only reliable ones out there - 3600 tend to have short lifetimes. -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by I've had a 3 KW Yanmar diesel for about twenty years, they're pricy but last forever and use very little diesel. Noisy as hell though, it definitely sounds like a diesel. Larger units have more sound deadening and larger mufflers. |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generatorpart
Ecnerwal wrote:
Makes little difference (land or marine) if you are just grabbing the generator end. I can make a few suggestions about using a marine unit on land if you went that route, as I am doing that. IMHO, 1800 or 1200 RPM (for 60 hz) units are the only reliable ones out there - 3600 tend to have short lifetimes. Suggest away! Since I'll belt drive the generator from the 50hz motor, I can handle any rpm, but would like to stay with lower rpm stuff. Thanks, Jon |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generator part
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:14:35 -0800, Jon Anderson
wrote: Ecnerwal wrote: Makes little difference (land or marine) if you are just grabbing the generator end. I can make a few suggestions about using a marine unit on land if you went that route, as I am doing that. IMHO, 1800 or 1200 RPM (for 60 hz) units are the only reliable ones out there - 3600 tend to have short lifetimes. Suggest away! Since I'll belt drive the generator from the 50hz motor, I can handle any rpm, but would like to stay with lower rpm stuff. Thanks, Jon If you want to make an electric motor driven motor-generator, I hope you are made of money - that's going to cost a ton to run, when you figure in the inefficiency of buying the power from the grid. Just think about it - to start the main motor on a 10 HP machine your converter needs to be (rough guess) 40 HP or better... And belts for the step up drive (1500 RPM electric motor to 1800 RPM generator head) will have to be adjustable, or your frequency is going be way off - and with belts it will still sag and surge pretty bad. You can't just adjust the throttle... You could hard-couple the motor and generator with a Lovejoy Coupling IF you can find a rotating field generator head ("Electronically Commutated") or the "Inverter" style (Honda EU line) where engine RPM is not the frequency timebase. A conventional genset with a diesel prime mover will make a lot more sense. And the PTO Drive generator driven off a locally available tractor is a close second. -- Bruce -- |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generator part
In article ,
Jon Anderson wrote: Ecnerwal wrote: Makes little difference (land or marine) if you are just grabbing the generator end. I can make a few suggestions about using a marine unit on land if you went that route, as I am doing that. IMHO, 1800 or 1200 RPM (for 60 hz) units are the only reliable ones out there - 3600 tend to have short lifetimes. Suggest away! Since I'll belt drive the generator from the 50hz motor, I can handle any rpm, but would like to stay with lower rpm stuff. It's mostly regarding the motor/cooling setup - if you're only using the generator end (which I suspected, but wasn't 100% sure of until you posted more) there's little difference, at least with NL - the gen-end is air cooled. With nearly all generator ends that are designed to close-couple to an engine, you'll need to make up a support plate with bearing to belt-drive them, since they use the motor bearing for that end of the generator. The main factor in dealing with a marine setup on land is getting rid of the heat - there's no built-in radiator. This can be good and bad. The unit itself is smaller and simpler without the radiator hanging off of it, and the heat can be mostly sent elsewhere - in my case, into the floor during heating season, into hot water in any season, and out to the air only when there's too much heat - gets a bit more use out of the same fuel dollar. Also means the genset is not a complete packaged unit that only ties into the electric line - for my use/mindset, that's not bad, for some, it is. Depending exactly what you are dealing with, the VFD suggestion deserves examination. A third possibility (but pretty expensive) would be to have an Australian battery charger feeding a DC battery bank feeding a US voltage inverter, preferably of the true sine wave flavor - that would work for more things than the VFD might, given that VFDs don't pay much attention to making sine waves, as I understand them from other discussions we've had here. It handily gets around Bruce's issues with trying to frequency convert via belt drive, or indeed involving motors in the process at all. It's quite do-able at the 4KW level, but does take a chunk of change. I suppose the other potential bug-bear might be what sort of hassles you might get from Australian electrical inspection of whatever you do. -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generatorpart
Ecnerwal wrote:
In article , Jon Anderson wrote: What's a good reliable generator at the output end? Going to try to find one with a bad engine, but want to make sure the other half will last a while given the expense of having a replacement shipped over.... Northern Lights. Finding one with a bad engine may be a problem - the whole unit works pretty reliably, but I guess you might find one with an owner that didn't change the oil or something. They make land-based units, but are more prevalent as a marine unit. That's a good thing for worldwide parts availability. Makes little difference (land or marine) if you are just grabbing the generator end. I can make a few suggestions about using a marine unit on land if you went that route, as I am doing that. IMHO, 1800 or 1200 RPM (for 60 hz) units are the only reliable ones out there - 3600 tend to have short lifetimes. An marine unit or an RV unit makes less noise. That may be advantage for your use. Bill K7NOM |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about thegenerator part
On Nov 21, 9:59*am, Jon Anderson wrote:
For my eventual move to Oz, I will be building my own motor/generator to power those tools that cannot be converted to 3phase. Why? They have AC in Australia you know. 415 V - 3 phase, 240 V single phase, all 50 cycles. How will a generator help? |
#19
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generator part
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:50:01 -0800 (PST), N Morrison
wrote: On Nov 21, 9:59*am, Jon Anderson wrote: For my eventual move to Oz, I will be building my own motor/generator to power those tools that cannot be converted to 3phase. Why? They have AC in Australia you know. 415 V - 3 phase, 240 V single phase, all 50 cycles. How will a generator help? Yes, but some tools are built for US Power Only - for residential straight 120V 1-Ph or 120-240V 1-Ph center-tap neutral, and for light industrial it could be 120/208V Wye 3-Ph, 240V 3-Ph Delta or Open Delta, 277/480V 3-Ph Wye, 480V 3-Ph Delta. All at 60 Hz. Some gear would be expensive or imposible to convert to Austrailian power directly. AIUI, you use straight 240V 1-Ph or 240/415V Wye 3-phase. AT 50 HERTZ, which is the big bugaboo for electronics gear and certain heavy machinery that can't handle 50-Hz natively. Transformer cores and motor laminations have to be built differently to handle both. You can use a bank of transformers to drop 240V to 120V or 415 to 240V, or boost 415V to 440V, but changing the frequency with enough energy to run machine tools is a huge issue - that calls for specially built Motor-Generator sets that have a gearbox or rotating field to boost the frequency, or a big Variable Frequency Drive just to bump the frequency up. There is gear specifically built to run on "World Power" I.E. it is not frequency sensitive and has multiple input voltage taps to handle almost anything you throw at it. But they are the exception in the marketplace, and rarely found used at reasonable prices. (You have to find a seller who doesn't know what they have, or is highly motivated to sell fast.) If he has an engine driven generator set, it's simple to make 60-Hz power to run the shop gear. Just feed it fuel and air, and the occasional oil change. The tractor driven PTO generators are even easier, because the Prime Mover can be changed easily when it breaks or wears out. -- Bruce -- |
#20
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about thegenerator part
On Nov 21, 5:57*pm, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote: ... Can you change a 50Hz gas or Diesel generator to 60Hz? jsw |
#21
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generator part
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:28:27 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote: On Nov 21, 5:57*pm, Bruce L. Bergman wrote: ... Can you change a 50Hz gas or Diesel generator to 60Hz? jsw I suppose you could if it was originally designed as a 60Hz unit and modified to 50Hz for the export market. Could be as simple as tweaking the governor setting from 1500 RPM (50Hz on a 4-pole generator) back up to 1800 RPM. Problem being, the export units might not be wound to put out 120V or 120/240V 1Ph or 120/208V 3Ph. They'll wind them at the voltages the export market usually wants - 240V and 240/415V. -- Bruce -- |
#22
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generator part
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:36:10 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote: On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:28:27 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins wrote: On Nov 21, 5:57*pm, Bruce L. Bergman wrote: ... Can you change a 50Hz gas or Diesel generator to 60Hz? jsw I suppose you could if it was originally designed as a 60Hz unit and modified to 50Hz for the export market. Could be as simple as tweaking the governor setting from 1500 RPM (50Hz on a 4-pole generator) back up to 1800 RPM. Problem being, the export units might not be wound to put out 120V or 120/240V 1Ph or 120/208V 3Ph. They'll wind them at the voltages the export market usually wants - 240V and 240/415V. -- Bruce -- Just add a 1::2 transformer. South East Asia is full of them as most of the countries have/had both European and U.S. stuff for years. (not so much U.S. stuff any more :-) Regards, J.B. |
#23
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generator part
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:59:50 -0800, Jon Anderson
wrote: For my eventual move to Oz, I will be building my own motor/generator to power those tools that cannot be converted to 3phase. Don't plan to run many items at once, I'm thinking about maybe a 4kw generator. Cant be converted to 3 phase? SImply use 2 of the 3 leads. Or are you looking for a 3ph genny? What's a good reliable generator at the output end? Going to try to find one with a bad engine, but want to make sure the other half will last a while given the expense of having a replacement shipped over.... And yeah, I'm planning on taking spare parts for it. Jon "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton |
#24
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
What's a good reliable generator, only worried about the generatorpart
Gunner Asch wrote:
Cant be converted to 3 phase? SImply use 2 of the 3 leads. By that, I meant converting by changing out the motor. All existing 3 phase stuff gets inverters unless rated 50hz Stuff like the drill press, Roll-in saw, etc., get 3ph motors w/inverter, or locally sourced 50hz motors. The motor/generator setup is for all the rest of my stuff. Mostly brush motor tools which would work with just a transformer, but some induction motor stuff too, like the Baldor. I have one customer more than willing to deal with me from down under. Shipping is no biggie, I could put $5k worth of stuff into a medium flat rate Priority box. But I need both CNC machines to do the work. If his sales meet projections, work for him alone would easily pay my shipping costs within 2 years. Just don't have the $$ to ship yet. Working on my 3D loadout, and I can already see there's no friggin way I get everything into one 20' container. This would all be SO much easier if I just sold all the machinery here. But making and fixing things is so much a part of my life I just cannot envision not having them. Sigh... Jon |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Solar Powered Attic Fans ; good investment and reliable ??? | Home Repair | |||
HI AMP ELECTRIC asks Can you find a good reliable electrician orcontractor? | Home Repair | |||
Looking for a good reliable 30" gas range | Home Repair | |||
good reliable reviews on power tools | Woodworking | |||
Septic Tank Manufacturer Recommendations Please ! Whats a good reliable make....TIA | UK diy |