We have a pool with a concrete or cement walkway around it that is appx. 36"
wide. We need to get to a leaking pipe underneath this walk.
I may want to jackhammer the concrete above where the pipe is leaking.

How can I saw this walk which is about 3" thick so that the jackhammer
doesn't crack it into jagged pieces beyond where I want to get to?

Thank you.

j/b

"justme" wrote in message
...
We have a pool with a concrete or cement walkway around it that is appx.
36" wide. We need to get to a leaking pipe underneath this walk.
I may want to jackhammer the concrete above where the pipe is leaking.

How can I saw this walk which is about 3" thick so that the jackhammer
doesn't crack it into jagged pieces beyond where I want to get to?

Thank you.

j/b




There are dry diamond saws that will work on a Skil Saw. There are also
ones for angle grinders, but my grinder is a 4 1/2" so you could only cut
about 1.75" deep.

"justme" wrote in message
...
We have a pool with a concrete or cement walkway around it that is appx.
36" wide. We need to get to a leaking pipe underneath this walk.
I may want to jackhammer the concrete above where the pipe is leaking.

How can I saw this walk which is about 3" thick so that the jackhammer
doesn't crack it into jagged pieces beyond where I want to get to?


Check with your local rental yard. You need to saw the border of the area to
be removed, and break the center.

You may be able to score the walk with a skill saw, and break it gently with
something like an electric jack hammer. If the concrete is not sawed all the
way through, you stand a greater chance of breaking the part you want to
keep if using something aggressive like a sledge hammer.

If you rent a saw that will cut the concrete all the way through, you should
be able to break the concrete any way you choose.

If it's just 36" wide, it might be less work to tunnel under it. Sawing,
breaking, reforming, mixing and finishing concrete is pretty time consuming.
Plus you will always have an area that doesn't match the rest of your walk.

On Aug 11, 5:24 am, "justme" wrote:
We have a pool with a concrete or cement walkway around it that is appx. 36"
wide. We need to get to a leaking pipe underneath this walk.
I may want to jackhammer the concrete above where the pipe is leaking.

How can I saw this walk which is about 3" thick so that the jackhammer
doesn't crack it into jagged pieces beyond where I want to get to?

Thank you.

j/b

Dead easy - get a masonry cutting blade (doesnt need to be a fancy
diamond one, plain abrasive masonry cutoff disc will do ) for your
angle grinder. Preferably a 9 inch angle grinder (which are
ridiculously cheap anyway, and are a mighty tool for, well, cutting
anything with the right disc) You don't need to go all the way
through, at least half way (or more if you can) as the fracture line
when breaking it up will be below the cut line.

In article , "justme"
wrote:

We have a pool with a concrete or cement walkway around it that is appx. 36"
wide. We need to get to a leaking pipe underneath this walk.
I may want to jackhammer the concrete above where the pipe is leaking.

How can I saw this walk which is about 3" thick so that the jackhammer
doesn't crack it into jagged pieces beyond where I want to get to?

You can rent a saw for the job. Should be a one-day deal, so it should
not cost too much. If it does cost too much, you can get a dry diamond
blade and use a saw not really made for the job - either buy a cheap POS
for the job (ie, the rental must really be overpriced) or have someone
stand there with a shop-vac to suck the dust up as you cut - otherwise
it gets into the saw motor and will kill it over time. You don't really
need a jackhammer - a sledge, or a sledge and a chisel, or (with a good
cut and a fairly small area) simply a prybar to lift the affected area.

If the concrete is steel-reinforced, it may not be very kind to a dry
diamond blade, but if you're using an electric saw that's not
specifically designed for use with water, wet cutting might just kill
you - at which point rental of the right saw begins to look more
sensible again.

If the pipe is in the middle of the walk (or closer to the outside edge)
digging a big hole may be a lot simpler than cutting the walk at all. If
you do cut the walk, make the replacement section able to be lifted out
the next time the pipe leaks.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Thanks, Bill. I'll look for one.

j/b

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...

"justme" wrote in message
...
We have a pool with a concrete or cement walkway around it that is appx.
36" wide. We need to get to a leaking pipe underneath this walk.
I may want to jackhammer the concrete above where the pipe is leaking.

How can I saw this walk which is about 3" thick so that the jackhammer
doesn't crack it into jagged pieces beyond where I want to get to?

Thank you.

j/b




There are dry diamond saws that will work on a Skil Saw. There are also
ones for angle grinders, but my grinder is a 4 1/2" so you could only cut
about 1.75" deep.

Tim, we have tunneled under the walk but it is getting tougher to do. I am
going to 'auger' it with a gasoline 6" auger and see it we can get more dirt
out to gain space.

Doing the concrete is the last resort.

Thanks for your help.

j/b


"Tim" wrote in message
m...

"justme" wrote in message
...
We have a pool with a concrete or cement walkway around it that is appx.
36" wide. We need to get to a leaking pipe underneath this walk.
I may want to jackhammer the concrete above where the pipe is leaking.

How can I saw this walk which is about 3" thick so that the jackhammer
doesn't crack it into jagged pieces beyond where I want to get to?


Check with your local rental yard. You need to saw the border of the area
to be removed, and break the center.

You may be able to score the walk with a skill saw, and break it gently
with something like an electric jack hammer. If the concrete is not sawed
all the way through, you stand a greater chance of breaking the part you
want to keep if using something aggressive like a sledge hammer.

If you rent a saw that will cut the concrete all the way through, you
should be able to break the concrete any way you choose.

If it's just 36" wide, it might be less work to tunnel under it. Sawing,
breaking, reforming, mixing and finishing concrete is pretty time
consuming. Plus you will always have an area that doesn't match the rest
of your walk.

Okay, Andrew. I will see what I can get a 9" grinder for. Maybe H.F. has a
cheapy.

Thanks for the tip es 73.

j/b


"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...
On Aug 11, 5:24 am, "justme" wrote:
We have a pool with a concrete or cement walkway around it that is appx.
36"
wide. We need to get to a leaking pipe underneath this walk.
I may want to jackhammer the concrete above where the pipe is leaking.

How can I saw this walk which is about 3" thick so that the jackhammer
doesn't crack it into jagged pieces beyond where I want to get to?

Thank you.

j/b

Dead easy - get a masonry cutting blade (doesnt need to be a fancy
diamond one, plain abrasive masonry cutoff disc will do ) for your
angle grinder. Preferably a 9 inch angle grinder (which are
ridiculously cheap anyway, and are a mighty tool for, well, cutting
anything with the right disc) You don't need to go all the way
through, at least half way (or more if you can) as the fracture line
when breaking it up will be below the cut line.

Ok, Lawrence.

I will check to see how much a rental saw will be.

I am considering cutting the concrete as a last resort.

I appreciate your input.

j/b


"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
In article , "justme"
wrote:

We have a pool with a concrete or cement walkway around it that is appx.
36"
wide. We need to get to a leaking pipe underneath this walk.
I may want to jackhammer the concrete above where the pipe is leaking.

How can I saw this walk which is about 3" thick so that the jackhammer
doesn't crack it into jagged pieces beyond where I want to get to?

You can rent a saw for the job. Should be a one-day deal, so it should
not cost too much. If it does cost too much, you can get a dry diamond
blade and use a saw not really made for the job - either buy a cheap POS
for the job (ie, the rental must really be overpriced) or have someone
stand there with a shop-vac to suck the dust up as you cut - otherwise
it gets into the saw motor and will kill it over time. You don't really
need a jackhammer - a sledge, or a sledge and a chisel, or (with a good
cut and a fairly small area) simply a prybar to lift the affected area.

If the concrete is steel-reinforced, it may not be very kind to a dry
diamond blade, but if you're using an electric saw that's not
specifically designed for use with water, wet cutting might just kill
you - at which point rental of the right saw begins to look more
sensible again.

If the pipe is in the middle of the walk (or closer to the outside edge)
digging a big hole may be a lot simpler than cutting the walk at all. If
you do cut the walk, make the replacement section able to be lifted out
the next time the pipe leaks.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:24:20 -0500, justme wrote:

We have a pool with a concrete or cement walkway around it that is appx. 36"
wide. We need to get to a leaking pipe underneath this walk.
I may want to jackhammer the concrete above where the pipe is leaking.

How can I saw this walk which is about 3" thick so that the jackhammer
doesn't crack it into jagged pieces beyond where I want to get to?

I once saw a guy dig under a concrete walk to get to a leaky pipe, but of
course the access hole was significantly bigger than if you just cut the
concrete.

As far as busting it up, just hire somebody with a concrete saw, and
take out the whole chunk, then replace it after preparing the substrate.

Good Luck!
Rich

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:09:58 -0500, "justme"
wrote:

Ok, Lawrence.

I will check to see how much a rental saw will be.

I am considering cutting the concrete as a last resort.

I appreciate your input.

j/b

If you try tunneling a hole under the pool deck or sidewalk from the
outside, plan on replacing the entire slab in a few months anyway. It
will sag, and it will crack, and in totally random patterns.

There is no way to get the compaction of the fill dirt right when
you backfill the hole - short of filling the whole thing in with "One
Sack Slurry" or "Two Sack Slurry"which is (as it sounds) a varying
strength concrete and sand mix.

And even then, if you get any voids in the backfill it's going to
settle and break.

And if you backfill with a cement sand slurry you will play hell
getting to that pipe again next time. Think 'encased in sandstone.'

Can't win for losing anyway... Murphy's Law says that the dirt
/around/ the area you patched will settle differently than that big
block of concrete you poured, and the pipe breaks at the parting line.

Do it right: Rent a concrete saw. Saw cut and remove a chunk of
sidewalk/deck, do your repairs, put the dirt back and compact it
properly as you go, then place a couple of strips of bender-board as
expansion joints and re-pour the slab.

-- Bruce --

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...

If you try tunneling a hole under the pool deck or sidewalk from the
outside, plan on replacing the entire slab in a few months anyway. It
will sag, and it will crack, and in totally random patterns.

There is no way to get the compaction of the fill dirt right when
you backfill the hole - short of filling the whole thing in with "One
Sack Slurry" or "Two Sack Slurry"which is (as it sounds) a varying
strength concrete and sand mix.

And even then, if you get any voids in the backfill it's going to
settle and break.


Totally false, I have done it many times. Yes, you should tamp the earth
back in place, but it can easily be done.

Bruce, thanks for all of that info.

What happens if I refill the tunneled hole with sand?

j/b


"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:09:58 -0500, "justme"
wrote:

Ok, Lawrence.

I will check to see how much a rental saw will be.

I am considering cutting the concrete as a last resort.

I appreciate your input.

j/b

If you try tunneling a hole under the pool deck or sidewalk from the
outside, plan on replacing the entire slab in a few months anyway. It
will sag, and it will crack, and in totally random patterns.

There is no way to get the compaction of the fill dirt right when
you backfill the hole - short of filling the whole thing in with "One
Sack Slurry" or "Two Sack Slurry"which is (as it sounds) a varying
strength concrete and sand mix.

And even then, if you get any voids in the backfill it's going to
settle and break.

And if you backfill with a cement sand slurry you will play hell
getting to that pipe again next time. Think 'encased in sandstone.'

Can't win for losing anyway... Murphy's Law says that the dirt
/around/ the area you patched will settle differently than that big
block of concrete you poured, and the pipe breaks at the parting line.

Do it right: Rent a concrete saw. Saw cut and remove a chunk of
sidewalk/deck, do your repairs, put the dirt back and compact it
properly as you go, then place a couple of strips of bender-board as
expansion joints and re-pour the slab.

-- Bruce --

Rich,

There is the pool then about a three foot wide concrete walkway and then 2
feet of crushed limestone and then a natural rock wall and all of this is
the perimeter. I have a large backhoe but I can't dig under the rockwall
without destroying the wall.

Oh, I can't afford to throw dollars at it.


j/b

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:24:20 -0500, justme wrote:

We have a pool with a concrete or cement walkway around it that is appx.
36"
wide. We need to get to a leaking pipe underneath this walk.
I may want to jackhammer the concrete above where the pipe is leaking.

How can I saw this walk which is about 3" thick so that the jackhammer
doesn't crack it into jagged pieces beyond where I want to get to?

I once saw a guy dig under a concrete walk to get to a leaky pipe, but of
course the access hole was significantly bigger than if you just cut the
concrete.

As far as busting it up, just hire somebody with a concrete saw, and
take out the whole chunk, then replace it after preparing the substrate.

Good Luck!
Rich

"justme" wrote in message
...
Bruce, thanks for all of that info.

What happens if I refill the tunneled hole with sand?

j/b


"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:09:58 -0500, "justme"
wrote:

Ok, Lawrence.

I will check to see how much a rental saw will be.

I am considering cutting the concrete as a last resort.

I appreciate your input.

j/b

If you try tunneling a hole under the pool deck or sidewalk from the
outside, plan on replacing the entire slab in a few months anyway. It
will sag, and it will crack, and in totally random patterns.

There is no way to get the compaction of the fill dirt right when
you backfill the hole - short of filling the whole thing in with "One
Sack Slurry" or "Two Sack Slurry"which is (as it sounds) a varying
strength concrete and sand mix.

And even then, if you get any voids in the backfill it's going to
settle and break.

And if you backfill with a cement sand slurry you will play hell
getting to that pipe again next time. Think 'encased in sandstone.'

Can't win for losing anyway... Murphy's Law says that the dirt
/around/ the area you patched will settle differently than that big
block of concrete you poured, and the pipe breaks at the parting line.

Do it right: Rent a concrete saw. Saw cut and remove a chunk of
sidewalk/deck, do your repairs, put the dirt back and compact it
properly as you go, then place a couple of strips of bender-board as
expansion joints and re-pour the slab.

-- Bruce --



Just put the slab back like a big stepping stone.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:41:09 -0500, "justme"
wrote:

Bruce, thanks for all of that info.

What happens if I refill the tunneled hole with sand?

You want to wet down the dirt or sand or whatever you use as
backfill to get the best compression. They make hand rammers which
are a big square foot of cast iron and a pickaxe size wood handle. I
have two sizes just for this stuff.

The trouble is getting the compaction back where you tunneled under
the slab from the side. You can stuff the dirt back in from the side,
but it's a beast to get it right.

Now if you want, you /could/ (as in I wouldn't but...) carefully
saw-cut out the slab in one piece - make sure the saw goes fuill
depth, if you try prying it out with an edge holding you copuld crack
the slab. Then flip the slab over onto the lawn and out of your way.
Dig your hole and fix the pipe.

Backfill the hole and compact, and place a bed of a few inches of
sand on the top - then flip your slab back over and test for fit.
Modify the sand layer to make it sit level and just a hair high,
because it will settle.

Note that if the sand layer is at all uneven against the bottom of
the slab, any heavy weight on this slab will crack it. No hand trucks
and refrigerators.

And when it settles unevenly you will have to come back, flip the
slab up again and add more sand, or move it around.

Call-backs are expensive, do it right the first time. If this is
your own house no problem, you can waste your own time as much as you
want. If this is a customer's house and you have to drive there to do
the remedial work, plan to write off a half-day (or more) as Lost
Time.

-- Bruce --

Got it, Bruce.

It is my own house.

j/b


"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:41:09 -0500, "justme"
wrote:

Bruce, thanks for all of that info.

What happens if I refill the tunneled hole with sand?

You want to wet down the dirt or sand or whatever you use as
backfill to get the best compression. They make hand rammers which
are a big square foot of cast iron and a pickaxe size wood handle. I
have two sizes just for this stuff.

The trouble is getting the compaction back where you tunneled under
the slab from the side. You can stuff the dirt back in from the side,
but it's a beast to get it right.

Now if you want, you /could/ (as in I wouldn't but...) carefully
saw-cut out the slab in one piece - make sure the saw goes fuill
depth, if you try prying it out with an edge holding you copuld crack
the slab. Then flip the slab over onto the lawn and out of your way.
Dig your hole and fix the pipe.

Backfill the hole and compact, and place a bed of a few inches of
sand on the top - then flip your slab back over and test for fit.
Modify the sand layer to make it sit level and just a hair high,
because it will settle.

Note that if the sand layer is at all uneven against the bottom of
the slab, any heavy weight on this slab will crack it. No hand trucks
and refrigerators.

And when it settles unevenly you will have to come back, flip the
slab up again and add more sand, or move it around.

Call-backs are expensive, do it right the first time. If this is
your own house no problem, you can waste your own time as much as you
want. If this is a customer's house and you have to drive there to do
the remedial work, plan to write off a half-day (or more) as Lost
Time.

-- Bruce --

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:26:18 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:09:58 -0500, "justme"
wrote:

Ok, Lawrence.

I will check to see how much a rental saw will be.

I am considering cutting the concrete as a last resort.

I appreciate your input.

j/b

If you try tunneling a hole under the pool deck or sidewalk from the
outside, plan on replacing the entire slab in a few months anyway. It
will sag, and it will crack, and in totally random patterns.

There is no way to get the compaction of the fill dirt right when
you backfill the hole - short of filling the whole thing in with "One
Sack Slurry" or "Two Sack Slurry"which is (as it sounds) a varying
strength concrete and sand mix.

And even then, if you get any voids in the backfill it's going to
settle and break.

And if you backfill with a cement sand slurry you will play hell
getting to that pipe again next time. Think 'encased in sandstone.'

Can't win for losing anyway... Murphy's Law says that the dirt
/around/ the area you patched will settle differently than that big
block of concrete you poured, and the pipe breaks at the parting line.

Do it right: Rent a concrete saw. Saw cut and remove a chunk of
sidewalk/deck, do your repairs, put the dirt back and compact it
properly as you go, then place a couple of strips of bender-board as
expansion joints and re-pour the slab.

-- Bruce --

Very sage advice!!



'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man
because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the
person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag,
the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Ro osevelt 1907