FINALLY someone is reading it!!

Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on
Twitter his findings.
This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)



PG 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS
that self insure!!

PG 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides
what treatments and benefits you get

PG 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

PG 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC
benefits for you. You have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US
citizens, illegal or otherwise

PG 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances
and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

PG 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your banks'
accounts for election funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their
families in unions & community orgs (ACORN).

PG 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating a HC Exchange to bring private HC
plans under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private HC
plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt
will ration your Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic-appropriate services.
Example: Translation for illegal aliens

PG 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups (i.e., ACORN &
Americorps)to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels for Plans. #AARP members -
your health care will be rationed.

PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid-eligible individuals will be
automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

PG 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No
"judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

PG 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what
you can make.

PG 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST automatically enroll employees into
pub opt plan. NO CHOICE

PG 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for health care for part-time
employees AND their families.

PG 149 Lines 16-24 ANY employer with a payroll of $400k and above who
does not provide pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

PG 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between $251k & 400k who
don't provide pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

PG 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC
according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income

PG 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from
individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

PG 195 HC Bill - Officers and employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have
access to ALL Americans' financial and personal records.

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be
treated as tax" Yes, it says that.

PG 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for
Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected

PG 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors will all be paid the same, regardless
of what specialty you have.

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of doctor's time, professional
judgment, etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131 Govt mandates and controls productivity for private HC
industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental and purchase of power driven
wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. Treatment of certain cancer hospitals. Cancer
patients: welcome to rationing!

PG 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what it deems
preventable readmissions.

PG 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors who treat a patient during initial admission
that results in a readmission will be penalized by the Govt.

PG 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells doctors
what/how much they can own.

PG 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is
mandating hospitals cannot expand

PG 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT
community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

PG 335 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome-based
measures. HC the way they want. Rationing

PG 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans,
HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan

PG 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs
people.! WTF. My sis has down syndrome!!

PG 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory
Committee. Can you say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think
Senior Citizens end of life

PG 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct and consult regarding living
wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides approved list of end of
life resources, guiding you in death. Excuse me???!?!?!?

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life.
The Govt has a say in how your life ends

PG 429 Lines 1-9 An "advance care planning consult" will be used
frequently as patient's health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "Advance care consultation" may include an ORDER
for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

PG 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an
end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you
will have at end of life

PG 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello,
ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

PG 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. One monthly payment
to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which
means they will insert Govt into your marriage

PG 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining,
creating, rationing those same services

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 02:31:08 -0400, the infamous "Steve W."
scrawled the following:

FINALLY someone is reading it!!

Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on
Twitter his findings.
This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)



PG 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS
that self insure!!

PG 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides
what treatments and benefits you get

PG 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

PG 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC
benefits for you. You have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US
citizens, illegal or otherwise

PG 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances
and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

PG 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your banks'
accounts for election funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their
families in unions & community orgs (ACORN).

PG 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating a HC Exchange to bring private HC
plans under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private HC
plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt
will ration your Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic-appropriate services.
Example: Translation for illegal aliens

PG 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups (i.e., ACORN &
Americorps)to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels for Plans. #AARP members -
your health care will be rationed.

PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid-eligible individuals will be
automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

PG 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No
"judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

PG 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what
you can make.

PG 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST automatically enroll employees into
pub opt plan. NO CHOICE

PG 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for health care for part-time
employees AND their families.

PG 149 Lines 16-24 ANY employer with a payroll of $400k and above who
does not provide pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

PG 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between $251k & 400k who
don't provide pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

PG 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC
according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income

PG 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from
individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

PG 195 HC Bill - Officers and employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have
access to ALL Americans' financial and personal records.

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be
treated as tax" Yes, it says that.

PG 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for
Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected

PG 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors will all be paid the same, regardless
of what specialty you have.

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of doctor's time, professional
judgment, etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131 Govt mandates and controls productivity for private HC
industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental and purchase of power driven
wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. Treatment of certain cancer hospitals. Cancer
patients: welcome to rationing!

PG 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what it deems
preventable readmissions.

PG 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors who treat a patient during initial admission
that results in a readmission will be penalized by the Govt.

PG 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells doctors
what/how much they can own.

PG 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is
mandating hospitals cannot expand

PG 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT
community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

PG 335 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome-based
measures. HC the way they want. Rationing

PG 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans,
HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan

PG 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs
people.! WTF. My sis has down syndrome!!

PG 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory
Committee. Can you say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think
Senior Citizens end of life

PG 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct and consult regarding living
wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides approved list of end of
life resources, guiding you in death. Excuse me???!?!?!?

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life.
The Govt has a say in how your life ends

PG 429 Lines 1-9 An "advance care planning consult" will be used
frequently as patient's health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "Advance care consultation" may include an ORDER
for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

PG 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an
end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you
will have at end of life

PG 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello,
ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

PG 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. One monthly payment
to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which
means they will insert Govt into your marriage

PG 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining,
creating, rationing those same services

What'll "they" do if and when people start sending their little lead
pills to the PTBs who've screwed them over?

I feel that the gov't would do a helluva lot more good by sponsoring
new doctors to work in new free clinics, like they used to do. Cities
could donate unused buildings for that purpose, because aI remember
going to $5 doctors in CA when I was a teen and better, and the
clinics took all the simple work, like colds/flu/broken bones/cuts so
the local doctors had time to do their specialties.

That alone would lower the cost of healthcare, probably by half.

I remember when Tri-City Hospital (Carlsbad/Oceanside/Vista, CA) did a
FOUR MILLION DOLLAR remodeling job...a simple facelift on their
_lobby_, fer chrissake.

Vista created a new community hospital shortly before I left there. It
looked like a fsking McMansion. You can't see the 12' wide sweeping
circular marble stairway between floors in the picture.
http://images.citysearch.net/assets/imgdb/9e/da/b1/5e/93/9d/2a/9c/7d/15/cc/fa/85/7b/91/15/0/0/7/6/8940076.JPG
Hospital/clinic government has become like our city/state/federal
gov't in the sense that they no longer know what a dollar costs.

--
A great preservative against angry and mutinous thoughts, and all
impatience and quarreling, is to have some great business and
interest in your mind, which, like a sponge shall suck up your
attention and keep you from brooding over what displeases you.
-- Joseph Rickaby

Thank you to all those folks that voted for Obama. You have just killed our
nation. If this bill is passed, there will be a revolution. This is the cost
of an illiterate public. I for one am disgusted with the level of public
ignorance.
Steve

Oh, I wish Bush could have ran for a a turd term



"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...

Thank you to all those folks that voted for Obama. You have just killed
our nation. If this bill is passed, there will be a revolution. This is
the cost of an illiterate public. I for one am disgusted with the level of
public ignorance.
Steve

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Thank you to all those folks that voted for Obama. You have just killed our
nation. If this bill is passed, there will be a revolution. This is the cost
of an illiterate public. I for one am disgusted with the level of public
ignorance.
Steve



There will be a revolution all right.
But not the kind you think.

An ignorant public will NEVER bite the hand that feeds them...

Here's one back at ya!

**
I thought that during the election, Mr. Obama stated that all Americans
should have the same healthcare that those in Congress/Senate had……??????

Universal Health Care Program

FINALLY...THE $50,000 QUESTION WAS ASKED !!!!!.....

YESTERDAY ON THE "ABC. OBAMA SPECIAL ON HEALTH CARE"......OBAMA WAS ASKED:
"MR. PRESIDENT WILL YOU AND YOUR FAMILY GIVE UP YOUR CURRENT HEALTH
CARE PROGRAM AND JOIN THE NEW "UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE PROGRAM" THAT THE
REST OF US WILL BE ON ????.....

OBAMA IGNORED THE QUESTION AND DIDN'T ANSWER IT !!!

A NUMBER OF SENATORS WERE ASKED THE SAME QUESTION AND THERE RESPONSE WAS...WE
WILL THINK ABOUT
T
!!!!

IT WAS ALSO ANNOUNCED TODAY ON THE NEWS THAT THE "KENNEDY HEALTH
CARE BILL"....
HAS WRITTEN INTO IT THAT CONGRESS WILL BE ( FROM THIS GREAT HEALTH CARE
PLAN

)..EXEMPT !!!!!

HOW ABOUT THOSE APPLES.....NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR OBAMA OR CONGRESS.....
BUT "OK" FOR THE REST OF US ????????

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:40:04 -0500, cavelamb wrote:

HOW ABOUT THOSE APPLES.....NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR OBAMA OR CONGRESS.....
BUT "OK" FOR THE REST OF US ????????

That's the wages of voting socialist.

Thanks,
Rich

cavelamb wrote:
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Thank you to all those folks that voted for Obama. You have just
killed our nation. If this bill is passed, there will be a revolution.
This is the cost of an illiterate public. I for one am disgusted with
the level of public ignorance.
Steve


There will be a revolution all right.
But not the kind you think.

An ignorant public will NEVER bite the hand that feeds them...

They may not be getting fed if this crap continues.....

--
Steve W.

Steve W. wrote:
FINALLY someone is reading it!!

Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on
Twitter his findings.
This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)


Guy has a pretty limited ability to read.




Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL
EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

It mandates a STUDY to verify that those who choose to self-insure are
financially solvent and able to actually meet claims of their employees.
this study reports 18 months after the start of the program.


Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that
decides what treatments and benefits you get

This is also done in every private plan, all insurance has somebody
who decides what to cover...


Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

Health care is already rationed by denying applications for insurance or
denying claims of the insured.


Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your
HC benefits for you. You have no choice!

First, you would need to choose to participate in the PUBLIC plan, then
you have three classes of public plans to choose, ranging from basic to
premium.


PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US
citizens, illegal or otherwise

So, a tourist can be covered. Seems like a nice idea, shame to let
visitors die when they come to visit. Our guys have been covered in
Finland for free when we had a problem over there.


Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals'
finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Misreading of the text. The insurance card will be designed to permit
instant verifiacation of whether the procedure is covered for that
person, in that place, with those doctors. No more finding out 3 weeks
after surgery that "your anesthesiologist wasn't in your plan, here's
your $15,000 Bill."


Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your
banks' accounts for election funds transfer

Erroneous reading, First "election", not part of Bill, second, this is
in the part of the Bill relating to plan dealings with providers, this
means your doctors get paid faster, by electronic transfer, rather than
waiting for "lost" checks to be sent.


PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their
families in unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Actually, it would let major companies and unions who have taken on the
health care for retirees, to buy into the federal plan. If you hate the
federal plan, this can hardly be called a payoff. Community orgs. are
not mentioned, unless they are already providing insurance coverage for
their members.


Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating a HC Exchange to bring private HC
plans under Govt control.

That is a bizzare reading of the actual text.


PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private
HC plans in the Exchange

That is plain wrong. Read the page, note the IF's and MAY's


PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt
will ration your Healthcare!

Again with the rationing... Geez...

Actually it says that the commissioner will set standards for the
participating suppliers in the PUBLIC plan, that will make all the
premium plans offer the same stuff, so the buyers can compare apples to
apples.


PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic-appropriate
services. Example: Translation for illegal aliens

Illegal aliens are the only people in the US who are not literate in
english? This also suggests that materials should be available in
Braille and signing for the deaf should be accommodated, Hmmm, seems
fair to me.



I'm bored, the twitterer is a twit at best...


Read the actual Bill, the guy has it more wrong than right.


PG 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups (i.e., ACORN &
Americorps)to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels for Plans. #AARP members -
your health care will be rationed.

PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid-eligible individuals will be
automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

PG 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No
"judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

PG 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what
you can make.

PG 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST automatically enroll employees into
pub opt plan. NO CHOICE

PG 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for health care for part-time
employees AND their families.

PG 149 Lines 16-24 ANY employer with a payroll of $400k and above who
does not provide pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

PG 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between $251k & 400k who
don't provide pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

PG 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC
according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income

PG 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from
individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

PG 195 HC Bill - Officers and employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have
access to ALL Americans' financial and personal records.

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be
treated as tax" Yes, it says that.

PG 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for
Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected

PG 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors will all be paid the same, regardless
of what specialty you have.

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of doctor's time, professional
judgment, etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131 Govt mandates and controls productivity for private HC
industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental and purchase of power driven
wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. Treatment of certain cancer hospitals. Cancer
patients: welcome to rationing!

PG 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what it deems
preventable readmissions.

PG 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors who treat a patient during initial admission
that results in a readmission will be penalized by the Govt.

PG 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells doctors
what/how much they can own.

PG 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is
mandating hospitals cannot expand

PG 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT
community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

PG 335 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome-based
measures. HC the way they want. Rationing

PG 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans,
HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan

PG 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs
people.! WTF. My sis has down syndrome!!

PG 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory
Committee. Can you say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think
Senior Citizens end of life

PG 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct and consult regarding living
wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides approved list of end of
life resources, guiding you in death. Excuse me???!?!?!?

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life.
The Govt has a say in how your life ends

PG 429 Lines 1-9 An "advance care planning consult" will be used
frequently as patient's health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "Advance care consultation" may include an ORDER
for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

PG 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an
end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you
will have at end of life

PG 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello,
ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

PG 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. One monthly payment
to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which
means they will insert Govt into your marriage

PG 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining,
creating, rationing those same services

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN CONYERS, D-MICH.: I love these that get up and say, "Read the bill."
What good is rebuilt if it is 1,000 pages and you do not have two days and two
lawyers to find out what it means after you have read the bill?

cavelamb wrote:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN CONYERS, D-MICH.: I love these that get up and say, "Read the
bill." What good is rebuilt if it is 1,000 pages and you do not have two
days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you have read the
bill?

You don't have to read the Bill, just sit back and look around for
somebody to tell you that they have, if they say they did, and their
opinion of it matches your pre-conception of the bill, then you are all
set. What an informed member of the electorate you have become!

Start at the beginning, look at his first comment, look at the bill.
Note where he omits the fact that the section refers to a STUDY
And is intended to protect workers who's employers "self insure"
against the company not being sufficiently solvent to cover claims.
that sounds like a good idea to me, why don't you like it?

Please be specific.

Why do you oppose the insurers being required to pay the doctors through
electronic transfer rather than by using checks that add delays and get
'lost' between the insurer and your doctor?

please be specific.

Stuart Wheaton wrote:


Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL
EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

It mandates a STUDY to verify that those who choose to self-insure are
financially solvent and able to actually meet claims of their employees.
this study reports 18 months after the start of the program.

I can tell you from experience that Cobra sucks if your self insured employer is heading
off to Ch 7.

Wes

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
cavelamb wrote:
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Thank you to all those folks that voted for Obama. You have just
killed our nation. If this bill is passed, there will be a revolution.
This is the cost of an illiterate public. I for one am disgusted with
the level of public ignorance.
Steve


There will be a revolution all right.
But not the kind you think.

An ignorant public will NEVER bite the hand that feeds them...

They may not be getting fed if this crap continues.....

--
Steve W.

As long as they don't have to think.....they'll survive.

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
FINALLY someone is reading it!!

Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on
Twitter his findings.
This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)



-snip-


website where you can send donations in support of health care reform.

http://www.barackobama.com/

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/...CA09001xml.pdf

Here is the latest revision of the BS plan from the Democrats.
Nothing like a license to steal...
--
Steve W.

"Rick Samuel" wrote in message
...

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
cavelamb wrote:
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Thank you to all those folks that voted for Obama. You have just
killed our nation. If this bill is passed, there will be a revolution.
This is the cost of an illiterate public. I for one am disgusted with
the level of public ignorance.
Steve


There will be a revolution all right.
But not the kind you think.

An ignorant public will NEVER bite the hand that feeds them...

They may not be getting fed if this crap continues.....

--
Steve W.

As long as they don't have to think.....they'll survive.


60% of the people now get more from the government than they pay in. Seems
as 60% will keep you in office. Until the 40% do not have enough to pay the
60%

Stuart Wheaton wrote:
Steve W. wrote:
FINALLY someone is reading it!!

Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on
Twitter his findings.
This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)


Guy has a pretty limited ability to read.




Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL
EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

It mandates a STUDY to verify that those who choose to self-insure are
financially solvent and able to actually meet claims of their employees.
this study reports 18 months after the start of the program.

And your point is?
Mandates a study of those who self insure to verify they can cover the
costs = AUDIT the books of those who self insure to see if they can
cover the costs. You said the same thing your claiming is wrong.




Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that
decides what treatments and benefits you get

This is also done in every private plan, all insurance has somebody who
decides what to cover...

In the private plan the folks who decide are not appointed by the
president and his appointees.

9 - members who are not Federal employees or officers and who are
appointed by the President.

9 - members who are not Federal employees or officers and who are
appointed by the Comptroller General of the United States in a manner
similar to the manner in which the Comptroller General appoints members
to the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission under section 1805(c) of the
Social Security Act.

Such even number of members (not to exceed 8) who are Federal employees
and officers, as the President may appoint.



Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

Health care is already rationed by denying applications for insurance or
denying claims of the insured.

NOT having insurance is NOT the same as rationing. I know a lot of folks
who do not have insurance (for religious reasons). They can go in to any
hospital get treated and pay for the services. Not a problem. OH and
they generally pay LESS than the folks with insurance!!!!




Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your
HC benefits for you. You have no choice!

First, you would need to choose to participate in the PUBLIC plan, then
you have three classes of public plans to choose, ranging from basic to
premium.

You did notice that your employer can decide to switch directly over to
the public plan without your input? Or that the government can decide
that the plan you have is not competitive and switch you as well?



PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US
citizens, illegal or otherwise

So, a tourist can be covered. Seems like a nice idea, shame to let
visitors die when they come to visit. Our guys have been covered in
Finland for free when we had a problem over there.

Were they in the country LEGALLY?
Tourists are NOT the problem, they are already covered if they are here
LEGALLY.
From your response it appears you condone providing benefits to those
who break the law and enter the country ILLEGALLY.



Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals'
finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Misreading of the text. The insurance card will be designed to permit
instant verifiacation of whether the procedure is covered for that
person, in that place, with those doctors. No more finding out 3 weeks
after surgery that "your anesthesiologist wasn't in your plan, here's
your $15,000 Bill."

So you don't dispute that there WILL BE a national ID card?
Or that the persons finaces will be checked prior to service?

From the text of the bill:
enable the real-time (or near real time) determination of an
individual’s financial responsibility at the point of service and, to
the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual
is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a
specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable
health plan beneficiary identification card;




Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your
banks' accounts for election funds transfer

Erroneous reading, First "election", not part of Bill, second, this is
in the part of the Bill relating to plan dealings with providers, this
means your doctors get paid faster, by electronic transfer, rather than
waiting for "lost" checks to be sent.


PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their
families in unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Actually, it would let major companies and unions who have taken on the
health care for retirees, to buy into the federal plan. If you hate the
federal plan, this can hardly be called a payoff. Community orgs. are
not mentioned, unless they are already providing insurance coverage for
their members.

IN GENERAL.—Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of
this Act, the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall establish a
temporary reinsurance program (in this section referred to as the
‘‘reinsurance program’’) to provide reimbursement to assist
participating employment-based plans with the cost of providing health
benefits to retirees and to eligible spouses, surviving spouses and
dependents of such retirees.

Actually it says that the unions and large employers will be paid back
for money they have spent on coverage. Payback in other words.



Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating a HC Exchange to bring private HC
plans under Govt control.

That is a bizzare reading of the actual text.

There is established within the Health Choices Administration and under
the direction of the Commissioner a Health Insurance Exchange in order
to facilitate access of individuals and employers, through a transparent
process, to a variety of choices of affordable, quality health insurance
coverage, including a public health insurance option.


The text boils down to the Commission looking at ALL insurance (private
and public plans included) to determine if they are considered a
qualified health plan. How is that NOT under Govt. control?




PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private
HC plans in the Exchange

That is plain wrong. Read the page, note the IF's and MAY's

Text is below, NO if's or may's in it other than to say that in order to
be in the system you MUST have the levels and types of coverage that the
Commissioner determines.

IN GENERAL.—The Commissioner shall specify the benefits to be made
available under Exchange-participating health benefits plans during each
plan year, consistent with subtitle C of title I and this section.

(b) LIMITATION ON HEALTH BENEFITS PLANS OFFERED BY OFFERING
ENTITIES.—The Commissioner may not enter into a contract with a QHBP
offering entity under section 204(c) for the offering of an
Exchange-participating health benefits plan in a service area unless the
following requirements are met:
(1) REQUIRED OFFERING OF BASIC PLAN.—The entity offers only one basic
plan for such service area.
(2) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF ENHANCED PLAN.—If and only if the entity offers
a basic plan for such service area, the entity may offer one enhanced
plan for such area.
(3) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF PREMIUM PLAN.— If and only if the entity offers
an enhanced plan for such service area, the entity may offer one premium
plan for such area.
(4) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF PREMIUM-PLUS PLANS.—If and only if the entity
offers a premium plan for such service area, the entity may offer one
or more premium-plus plans for such area.
All such plans may be offered under a single contract with the Commissioner.

SPECIFICATION OF BENEFIT LEVELS FOR PLANS.—

(1) IN GENERAL.—The Commissioner shall establish the following standards
consistent with this subsection and title I:

(A) BASIC, ENHANCED, AND PREMIUM PLANS.—Standards for 3 levels of
Exchange participating health benefits plans: basic, enhanced, and
premium (in this division referred to as a ‘‘basic plan’’, ‘‘enhanced
plan’’, and ‘‘premium plan’’, respectively).

(B) PREMIUM-PLUS PLAN BENEFITS.— Standards for additional benefits that
may be offered, consistent with this subsection and subtitle C of title
I, under a premium plan (such a plan with additional benefits referred
to in this division as a ‘‘premium-plus plan’’).

(2) BASIC PLAN.— (A) IN GENERAL.— A basic plan shall offer the essential
benefits package required under title I for a qualified health benefits
plan.
(B) TIERED COST-SHARING FOR AFFORDABLE CREDIT ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS.—In
the case of an affordable credit eligible individual (as defined in
section 242(a)(1)) enrolled in an Exchange-participating health benefits
plan, the benefits under a basic plan are modified to provide for the
reduced cost-sharing for the income tier applicable to the individual
under section
244(c).

(3) ENHANCED PLAN.—A enhanced plan shall offer, in addition to the level
of benefits under the basic plan, a lower level of cost-sharing as
provided under title I consistent with section 123(b)(5)(A).

(4) PREMIUM PLAN.—A premium plan shall offer, in addition to the level
of benefits under the basic plan, a lower level of cost-sharing as
provided under title I consistent with section 123(b)(5)(B).

(5) PREMIUM-PLUS PLAN.—A premium-plus plan is a premium plan that also
provides additional benefits, such as adult oral health and vision care,
approved by the Commissioner. The portion of the premium that is
attributable to such additional benefits shall be separately specified.

(6) RANGE OF PERMISSIBLE VARIATION IN COST-SHARING.—The Commissioner
shall establish a permissible range of variation of cost-sharing for
each basic, enhanced, and premium plan, except with respect to any
benefit for which there is no cost sharing permitted under the essential
benefits package. Such variation shall permit a variation of not
more than plus (or minus) 10 percent in cost-sharing with respect to
each benefit category specified under section 122.

(d) TREATMENT OF STATE BENEFIT MANDATES.—
Insofar as a State requires a health insurance issuer offering health
insurance coverage to include benefits beyond the essential benefits
package, such requirement shall continue to apply to an
Exchange-participating health benefits plan, if the State has entered
into an arrangement satisfactory to the Commissioner to reimburse the
Commissioner for the amount of any net increase in affordability premium
credits under subtitle C as a result of an increase in premium in basic
plans as a result of application of such requirement.




PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt
will ration your Healthcare!

Again with the rationing... Geez...

And again YOU ado not understand rationing.


Actually it says that the commissioner will set standards for the
participating suppliers in the PUBLIC plan, that will make all the
premium plans offer the same stuff, so the buyers can compare apples to
apples.

Actually this also is included with the above text. Note how YOU stated
that the government isn't going to control the insurance in the above
statement, BUT here you are stating they will. Impossible to have both,
Want to flip again?



PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic-appropriate
services. Example: Translation for illegal aliens

Illegal aliens are the only people in the US who are not literate in
english? This also suggests that materials should be available in
Braille and signing for the deaf should be accommodated, Hmmm, seems
fair to me.

And it is already done if you need it. BTDT, we carry translation books
and picture tags on our rigs just for these instances. This has been
around 10 years or so.




I'm bored, the twitterer is a twit at best...


Read the actual Bill, the guy has it more wrong than right.

I HAVE and included a link to the latest revision above. Other than some
items that are already commonplace and seem to be unknown to the dimwits
writing this bill (not a surprise since NONE of them use insurance plans
that are available to the general public) he has it correct.


The easy health care solution to the supposed problem is simple.
Eliminate ALL health insurance programs and return to a cash only system.

--
Steve W.

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Thank you to all those folks that voted for Obama. You have just killed our
nation. If this bill is passed, there will be a revolution. This is the cost
of an illiterate public. I for one am disgusted with the level of public
ignorance.
Steve

Funny. I was thinking just the opposite. Obama, you just saved our
nation. Thank you. We were on a path to certain destruction and you got
us on a new course that will bring us out of the sure bankruptcy that
our present course was taking us. As stupid as the public is they
haven't fallen for the big scare the right wing is trying to perpetrate
on them. Like the sky will fall if we make changes in a bad system.
Finally, it's gotten so bad that we're going to move forward. It's kind
of like after 8 years of the republicans in charge we had to do
something to get them out. But it is really funny to hear the party that
never failed to spend more than it took in get so worked up about
spending. That's a good one, republicans criticizing someone else for
spending too much. Ha Ha.

Hawke

Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:40:04 -0500, cavelamb wrote:

HOW ABOUT THOSE APPLES.....NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR OBAMA OR CONGRESS.....
BUT "OK" FOR THE REST OF US ????????


That's the wages of voting socialist.

Thanks,
Rich


You should consider yourself lucky that you are getting a new public
health care plan as it is, and what the country's elites have isn't your
concern. The wealthy elite always have everything better than the rest
of us. At least you are going to get guaranteed health care and won't be
going bankrupt when you get a health problem. Getting a public plan will
help business by eliminating the burden of health care from them.
Everybody will get care and if they get the plan right it's going to
cost the country a lot less than the for profit system costs. It's not
by luck that every other country providing health care has rejected our
system. It just doesn't work. We would have switched years ago except
for the opposition of special interests. Now, for once, the interests
being served are yours. But you're too dumb to know that. Lucky for us
someone else other than you and the right wing are making the decisions.

Hawke

cavelamb wrote:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN CONYERS, D-MICH.: I love these that get up and say, "Read the
bill." What good is rebuilt if it is 1,000 pages and you do not have two
days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you have read the
bill?

Somebody needs to tell you ignorant guys what is going on. FYI, as a
rule legislators never read bills. This one is not an exception. It's a
waste of their time when they have plenty of other things to do. What do
you think they have a staff for? The staff reads them and gives the
congressmen a brief on what is in it. The legislator usually votes on a
bill because of the interest groups that support it. So the "read the
bill" accusation is nothing but bullcrap. Anyone who knows how the game
works already knows what is going on. What is hypocrisy is for people
who know that legislators rarely read bills to go around using that to
criticize them over. But they know ignorant people get excited by that
so they tell the little lie that the senators and congressmen haven't
read the bill. That's no big deal and they know it. You don't and get
all upset.

Hawke

"Hawke" wrote in message
...



You should consider yourself lucky that you are getting a new public
health care plan as it is, and what the country's elites have isn't your
concern. The wealthy elite always have everything better than the rest of
us. At least you are going to get guaranteed health care and won't be
going bankrupt when you get a health problem. Getting a public plan will
help business by eliminating the burden of health care from them.
Everybody will get care and if they get the plan right it's going to cost
the country a lot less than the for profit system costs. It's not by luck
that every other country providing health care has rejected our system. It
just doesn't work. We would have switched years ago except for the
opposition of special interests. Now, for once, the interests being served
are yours. But you're too dumb to know that. Lucky for us someone else
other than you and the right wing are making the decisions.

Hawke


makes me wonder if there are investors in germany, france, england, china
who're ALL ****ed off about this possible change. u.s. healthcare is a
multi billion dollar business, there must be foreign investors who're hoping
and praying this socialist system doesn't go through (they're raking in big
bucks w/ the current system).
one other thing i've been wondering, if a government run system will cap
malpractice lawsuits. i would imagine because they have the power to do so,
they will. you'd think that alone would make certain people happy. (how
many years have we heard bitching and moaning about outrageous settlements,
etc.)

b.w.

Calif Bill wrote:

60% of the people now get more from the government than they pay in. Seems
as 60% will keep you in office. Until the 40% do not have enough to pay the
60%



How is this not a Ponzi scheme???

cavelamb wrote:

Calif Bill wrote:

60% of the people now get more from the government than they pay in. Seems
as 60% will keep you in office. Until the 40% do not have enough to pay the
60%



How is this not a Ponzi scheme???

Progressive taxation is what we call it until the numbers don't work. Then we call it a
Ponzi scheme and 'reform' it. Reform sounds like a protologicalviolation to me.

Wes

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Thank you to all those folks that voted for Obama. You have just
killed our nation. If this bill is passed, there will be a
revolution. This is the cost of an illiterate public. I for one am
disgusted with the level of public ignorance.


Does that include yours?

"At a recent town hall meeting, a man stood up and told Representative Bob
Inglis to "keep your government hands off my Medicare." The congressman, a
Republican from South Carolina, tried to explain that Medicare is already a
government program - but the voter, Mr. Inglis said, "wasn't having any of
it.""


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/op...n.html?_r=1&em

--
John R. Carroll

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:39:33 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:


Thank you to all those folks that voted for Obama. You have just killed our
nation. If this bill is passed, there will be a revolution. This is the cost
of an illiterate public. I for one am disgusted with the level of public
ignorance.
Steve

We are going to have a revoltion in less than 3 yrs as it is.

Hope you stocked up on ammo and food.

And picked out the Leftwing jerkoff you like the least. VEG



Gunner

'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man
because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the
person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag,
the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Ro osevelt 1907

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

"At a recent town hall meeting, a man stood up and told Representative Bob
Inglis to "keep your government hands off my Medicare." The congressman, a
Republican from South Carolina, tried to explain that Medicare is already a
government program - but the voter, Mr. Inglis said, "wasn't having any of
it.""

The sad thing is that many of the people that are clamoring for the public option or
single payer have absolutely no clue when it comes to the cost of providing it.

It seems like every time this is discussed in the call in segments of Cspan Washington
Journal I hear people calling in saying that they wouldn't mind paying a 100 dollars a
month for health care or some similar absurdly low amount.

I'd like to know what health insurance for federal workers costs. How much is paid by the
US Government and what is paid for by the worker. Then I'd have an idea of what the
'public option' would cost.

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

"At a recent town hall meeting, a man stood up and told Representative Bob
Inglis to "keep your government hands off my Medicare." The congressman, a
Republican from South Carolina, tried to explain that Medicare is already
a
government program - but the voter, Mr. Inglis said, "wasn't having any of
it.""

The sad thing is that many of the people that are clamoring for the public
option or
single payer have absolutely no clue when it comes to the cost of
providing it.

Wes, the cost is the same -- or somewhat less. Having a single payer, or
covering uninsured people with insurance, doesn't increase or decrease the
total amount of medical care we're paying for. What it does is shift the
payer from one party to another -- from an employer to the government, in
most cases -- and it takes uninsured people out of the emergency rooms to
care for their bronchitis.

Keep in mind that we're already paying for the uninsured through our tax
dollars and through higher rates for our insurance, because the costs filter
through the system until they get to the people who can pay: you and the
rest of us here.

--
Ed Huntress


It seems like every time this is discussed in the call in segments of
Cspan Washington
Journal I hear people calling in saying that they wouldn't mind paying a
100 dollars a
month for health care or some similar absurdly low amount.

I'd like to know what health insurance for federal workers costs. How
much is paid by the
US Government and what is paid for by the worker. Then I'd have an idea
of what the
'public option' would cost.

Wes

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:21:46 -0700, Hawke wrote:
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:40:04 -0500, cavelamb wrote:

HOW ABOUT THOSE APPLES.....NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR OBAMA OR CONGRESS.....
BUT "OK" FOR THE REST OF US ????????

That's the wages of voting socialist.

You should consider yourself lucky that you are getting a new public
health care plan as it is,

**** you, you socialist.

I'll wind up paying the bills of the fat, lazy, negligent couch potatoes
who don't have sense enough to get up of their fat lazy ass and walk to
the store, or to the p;ark.

Health Care begins at home.

The negligent should NOT be rewarded for their negligence.

Thanks,
Rich

On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:54:51 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
wrote:


I'll wind up paying the bills of the fat, lazy, negligent couch potatoes
who don't have sense enough to get up of their fat lazy ass and walk to
the store, or to the p;ark.

Health Care begins at home.

The negligent should NOT be rewarded for their negligence.

Thanks,
Rich


When your insurance runs out, please die quietly.


Mark Rand
RTFM