Mike, I just want to say that I put some of your Hangsterfer S500
coolant into my lathe, and it seems to work very nicely. I tried to
cut some material at relatively high sped and feed rates, and the
coolant certainly makes a huge difference. Thank you very much for
this great coolant.

i

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ignoramus2408 wrote:

Mike, I just want to say that I put some of your Hangsterfer S500
coolant into my lathe, and it seems to work very nicely. I tried to
cut some material at relatively high sped and feed rates, and the
coolant certainly makes a huge difference. Thank you very much for
this great coolant.

Hangsterfer? With a name like that, it had better work.

What did it cost, and where?

It's available from distributors only, for around $100+ per 5-gallon pail.
I had some extra and passed along a sample to Iggy. So far as I know you
can't get it from the normal distributors like MSC or Enco, which seems to
be typical for the coolants that get recommended most by commercial shops.

http://www.hangsterfers.com/productdetails.asp?1=134

I've been using it for nearly 2 years of very intermittent CNC milling and
have had absolutely zero problems with odor or biological growth. I machine
mostly aluminum and acrylic, on which it does a terrific job.

Mike

"Ignoramus2408" wrote in message
...
Mike, I just want to say that I put some of your Hangsterfer S500
coolant into my lathe, and it seems to work very nicely. I tried to
cut some material at relatively high sped and feed rates, and the
coolant certainly makes a huge difference. Thank you very much for
this great coolant.

i

My pleasure - I still owe you for the help with that compressor a while
back.

On 2009-07-25, Mike Henry wrote:

"Ignoramus2408" wrote in message
...
Mike, I just want to say that I put some of your Hangsterfer S500
coolant into my lathe, and it seems to work very nicely. I tried to
cut some material at relatively high sped and feed rates, and the
coolant certainly makes a huge difference. Thank you very much for
this great coolant.

i

My pleasure - I still owe you for the help with that compressor a while
back.


Thank you. Just to illustrate, I made some super long and shiny
looking spiral swarf pieces, which seems to suggest that this
lubricant is very good at reducing tool to material friction and aids
material removal. Such swarf pieces do not come out without this
metaoworking fluid.

i

In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ignoramus2408 wrote:

Mike, I just want to say that I put some of your Hangsterfer S500
coolant into my lathe, and it seems to work very nicely. I tried to
cut some material at relatively high sped and feed rates, and the
coolant certainly makes a huge difference. Thank you very much for
this great coolant.

Hangsterfer? With a name like that, it had better work.

What did it cost, and where?

It's available from distributors only, for around $100+ per 5-gallon pail.
I had some extra and passed along a sample to Iggy. So far as I know you
can't get it from the normal distributors like MSC or Enco, which seems to
be typical for the coolants that get recommended most by commercial shops.

http://www.hangsterfers.com/productdetails.asp?1=134

I've been using it for nearly 2 years of very intermittent CNC milling and
have had absolutely zero problems with odor or biological growth. I machine
mostly aluminum and acrylic, on which it does a terrific job.

Drat. Five gallons is far too much for me. I'm still working on my
first gallon of soluble oil, bought a few years ago.

I've been using Rustlick WS-5050, which works very well (especially with
flood cooling) for aluminum and steel, but is a bit annoying to handle.
The hope is that vegetable oil will be nicer, although I was suspicious
that it wouldn't work as well.

One problem I have had with the WS-5050 is that ropey lumps form in the
coolant after a year of occasional use. The lumps are some kind of gel,
and I filter them out with cheesecloth.

I got the same kind of ropey gel lumps in KoolMist #77, so I'm guessing
that they both have the same water-soluble slippery agent in them.


Joe Gwinn

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
snip

Drat. Five gallons is far too much for me. I'm still working on my
first gallon of soluble oil, bought a few years ago.

Maybe a distributor or Hangsterfer would give you a quart sample.

I've been using Rustlick WS-5050, which works very well (especially with
flood cooling) for aluminum and steel, but is a bit annoying to handle.
The hope is that vegetable oil will be nicer, although I was suspicious
that it wouldn't work as well.

One problem I have had with the WS-5050 is that ropey lumps form in the
coolant after a year of occasional use. The lumps are some kind of gel,
and I filter them out with cheesecloth.

I got the same kind of ropey gel lumps in KoolMist #77, so I'm guessing
that they both have the same water-soluble slippery agent in them.

Could that be way oil? If not it sounds like you are getting some sort of
emulsion. Do you check the coolant concentration and adjust periodically?
A refractometer is an easy way to check the concentration.

Mike

In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
snip

Drat. Five gallons is far too much for me. I'm still working on my
first gallon of soluble oil, bought a few years ago.

Maybe a distributor or Hangsterfer would give you a quart sample.

I was thinking of that. I was also thinking that Hangsterfer should
sell gallons through MSC or the like, as self-funding samples.


I've been using Rustlick WS-5050, which works very well (especially with
flood cooling) for aluminum and steel, but is a bit annoying to handle.
The hope is that vegetable oil will be nicer, although I was suspicious
that it wouldn't work as well.

One problem I have had with the WS-5050 is that ropey lumps form in the
coolant after a year of occasional use. The lumps are some kind of gel,
and I filter them out with cheesecloth.

I got the same kind of ropey gel lumps in KoolMist #77, so I'm guessing
that they both have the same water-soluble slippery agent in them.

Could that be way oil? If not it sounds like you are getting some sort of
emulsion. Do you check the coolant concentration and adjust periodically?
A refractometer is an easy way to check the concentration.

It is not way oil. Doesn't look like way oil, and I get it with the
drill press, which has no such oil. It appears that something in the
coolant is absorbing oxygen cand solidifying.

Joe Gwinn

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:
snip

Could that be way oil? If not it sounds like you are getting some sort
of
emulsion. Do you check the coolant concentration and adjust
periodically?
A refractometer is an easy way to check the concentration.

It is not way oil. Doesn't look like way oil, and I get it with the
drill press, which has no such oil. It appears that something in the
coolant is absorbing oxygen cand solidifying.

Then perhaps your coolant is partially coalescing or separating in the mix.
I've never had any problem in that regard with the Hangsterfer, but that's
all I've ever used. Mixing the raw coolant with water can be tricky if one
is to believe user reports and/or manufacturer's preparation instructions.
Does your give any special instructions and how closely did you follow them?

Mike

In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:
snip

Could that be way oil? If not it sounds like you are getting some sort
of emulsion. Do you check the coolant concentration and adjust
periodically?
A refractometer is an easy way to check the concentration.

I haven't been able to convince myself that I need one that badly.


It is not way oil. Doesn't look like way oil, and I get it with the
drill press, which has no such oil. It appears that something in the
coolant is absorbing oxygen and solidifying.

Then perhaps your coolant is partially coalescing or separating in the mix.

Remixing does not work, and one can pick the gel lumps and ropes up with
the bare hands.


I've never had any problem in that regard with the Hangsterfer, but that's
all I've ever used. Mixing the raw coolant with water can be tricky if one
is to believe user reports and/or manufacturer's preparation instructions.
Does your give any special instructions and how closely did you follow them?

There are no mixing instructions other than giving the suggested
dilution range.

My usual approach for small quantities (such as to feed the mister) is
to put water into a gallon plastic bottle, followed by concentrate,
shake, top off with water, shake. For the 1 gallon coolant pump, I use
the gallon bottle. For the 3-gallon coolant pump, I pour the
concentrate into water while running the pump full bore with the output
being directed back into the tank.

In all cases, I get a uniform mix. The shaken bottle works very
quickly, while self-mixing by the coolant pump is far slower, but both
approaches work.

The gel lumps formed much later, from initially uniform coolant at 10%
to 15% dilution or so.

I also got gel lumps in the Kool Mist 77, which is pretty easy to mix.

The bottle feeding the mister is a total-loss system, with no
recirculation, and yet gel lumps eventually formed and caused problems
with spray generation. This happened with both WS-5050 and Kool Mist 77.

I assume that whatever forms the gel was supposed to perform some
function, which is no longer done. I think the simplest solution is to
completely replace the mixed coolant once or twice a year.

Joe Gwinn

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:
snip

Could that be way oil? If not it sounds like you are getting some
sort
of emulsion. Do you check the coolant concentration and adjust
periodically?
A refractometer is an easy way to check the concentration.

I haven't been able to convince myself that I need one that badly.

Maybe your coolant has become too concentrated, which a refractometer could
tell you. How do you make up for volume losses? Do you add plain water,
straight coolant, or a diluted mixture of coolant and water?


It is not way oil. Doesn't look like way oil, and I get it with the
drill press, which has no such oil. It appears that something in the
coolant is absorbing oxygen and solidifying.

Then perhaps your coolant is partially coalescing or separating in the
mix.

Remixing does not work, and one can pick the gel lumps and ropes up with
the bare hands.

Once lumps and ropes form it may be too late for simple mixing to help.
Emulsions (if that's what the lumps/gels are) can be very difficult to
break. Heat is one way.

I've never had any problem in that regard with the Hangsterfer, but
that's
all I've ever used. Mixing the raw coolant with water can be tricky if
one
is to believe user reports and/or manufacturer's preparation
instructions.
Does your give any special instructions and how closely did you follow
them?

There are no mixing instructions other than giving the suggested
dilution range.

I don't think that the instructions are commonly sent with the coolant. The
manufacturer's web site should have info on mixing new batches and peparing
make-up solutions. Have you checked there yet?

My usual approach for small quantities (such as to feed the mister) is
to put water into a gallon plastic bottle, followed by concentrate,
shake, top off with water, shake. For the 1 gallon coolant pump, I use
the gallon bottle. For the 3-gallon coolant pump, I pour the
concentrate into water while running the pump full bore with the output
being directed back into the tank.

I believe that most manufacturer's recommend continuous mixing while adding
raw coolant to water and slowly at that. As mentioned above, I'd check to
see what the manufacturers recommend.

In all cases, I get a uniform mix. The shaken bottle works very
quickly, while self-mixing by the coolant pump is far slower, but both
approaches work.

Perhaps they'd work longer if mixed differently. Or maybe something else
entirely different is going on.

The gel lumps formed much later, from initially uniform coolant at 10%
to 15% dilution or so.

I also got gel lumps in the Kool Mist 77, which is pretty easy to mix.

The bottle feeding the mister is a total-loss system, with no
recirculation, and yet gel lumps eventually formed and caused problems
with spray generation. This happened with both WS-5050 and Kool Mist 77.

How long do the mixtures last before the lumps start to develop?

I assume that whatever forms the gel was supposed to perform some
function, which is no longer done. I think the simplest solution is to
completely replace the mixed coolant once or twice a year.

I don't use my mill much and even more infrequently use coolant and still
replace the coolant once a year or so. The coolant tank is partially open
though and the screens on the return system aren't very efficient at
removing small bits of swarf, so my situation may be different than yours.

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:50:00 -0500, "Mike Henry"
wrote:


"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:
snip

Could that be way oil? If not it sounds like you are getting some sort
of
emulsion. Do you check the coolant concentration and adjust
periodically?
A refractometer is an easy way to check the concentration.

It is not way oil. Doesn't look like way oil, and I get it with the
drill press, which has no such oil. It appears that something in the
coolant is absorbing oxygen cand solidifying.

Then perhaps your coolant is partially coalescing or separating in the mix.
I've never had any problem in that regard with the Hangsterfer, but that's
all I've ever used. Mixing the raw coolant with water can be tricky if one
is to believe user reports and/or manufacturer's preparation instructions.
Does your give any special instructions and how closely did you follow them?

Mike


Most commercial coolants are good for a year. Now in most commercial
shops..they go through a lot so this problem never crops up.

Get a small 110vt pump, put a timer on it and run it for an hour a day
with the discharge side putting back into the tank at the farthest
location from the suction side.

While this will increase the life span and help keep Booger Lumps from
growing..its not the perfect solution. But it REALLY will help

Gunner, who uses only Oil, except for some spray misters, in all of his
machines


'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man
because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the
person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag,
the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Ro osevelt 1907

In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:
snip

Could that be way oil? If not it sounds like you are getting some
sort
of emulsion. Do you check the coolant concentration and adjust
periodically?
A refractometer is an easy way to check the concentration.

I haven't been able to convince myself that I need one that badly.

Maybe your coolant has become too concentrated, which a refractometer could
tell you. How do you make up for volume losses? Do you add plain water,
straight coolant, or a diluted mixture of coolant and water?

One (in the one gallon pump) did get too concentrated, and was extended
with water. It was already pretty old by then. I don't know if it had
lumps by then, but I would not be surprised.

The other, in a gallon jug, did not dry out, but it too got lumps.


It is not way oil. Doesn't look like way oil, and I get it with the
drill press, which has no such oil. It appears that something in the
coolant is absorbing oxygen and solidifying.

Then perhaps your coolant is partially coalescing or separating in the
mix.

Remixing does not work, and one can pick the gel lumps and ropes up with
the bare hands.

Once lumps and ropes form it may be too late for simple mixing to help.
Emulsions (if that's what the lumps/gels are) can be very difficult to
break. Heat is one way.

Perhaps, but I have very little money on mixed coolant. I think I'll
just replace it.


I've never had any problem in that regard with the Hangsterfer, but
that's
all I've ever used. Mixing the raw coolant with water can be tricky if
one
is to believe user reports and/or manufacturer's preparation
instructions.
Does your give any special instructions and how closely did you follow
them?

There are no mixing instructions other than giving the suggested
dilution range.

I don't think that the instructions are commonly sent with the coolant. The
manufacturer's web site should have info on mixing new batches and peparing
make-up solutions. Have you checked there yet?

No, but this isn't rocket science.


My usual approach for small quantities (such as to feed the mister) is
to put water into a gallon plastic bottle, followed by concentrate,
shake, top off with water, shake. For the 1 gallon coolant pump, I use
the gallon bottle. For the 3-gallon coolant pump, I pour the
concentrate into water while running the pump full bore with the output
being directed back into the tank.

I believe that most manufacturer's recommend continuous mixing while adding
raw coolant to water and slowly at that. As mentioned above, I'd check to
see what the manufacturers recommend.

In all cases, I get a uniform mix. The shaken bottle works very
quickly, while self-mixing by the coolant pump is far slower, but both
approaches work.

Perhaps they'd work longer if mixed differently. Or maybe something else
entirely different is going on.

I doubt it. It is fully mixed when I'm done.


The gel lumps formed much later, from initially uniform coolant at 10%
to 15% dilution or so.

I also got gel lumps in the Kool Mist 77, which is pretty easy to mix.

The bottle feeding the mister is a total-loss system, with no
recirculation, and yet gel lumps eventually formed and caused problems
with spray generation. This happened with both WS-5050 and Kool Mist 77.

How long do the mixtures last before the lumps start to develop?

It took at least a year. Gunner mentioned that the stuff is good for a
year, which is what I'm seeing.


I assume that whatever forms the gel was supposed to perform some
function, which is no longer done. I think the simplest solution is to
completely replace the mixed coolant once or twice a year.

I don't use my mill much and even more infrequently use coolant and still
replace the coolant once a year or so. The coolant tank is partially open
though and the screens on the return system aren't very efficient at
removing small bits of swarf, so my situation may be different than yours.

My coolant pumps have the standard hemisphere screens, so they don't
catch the fines, which will most likely accumulate as sludge at the
bottom of the tank. I have used cheese cloth to catch fines, but I
don't know if it's worth the trouble. I suppose that one mucks the
coolant tank out once a year to remove the sludge.

Joe Gwinn

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
snip

My coolant pumps have the standard hemisphere screens, so they don't
catch the fines, which will most likely accumulate as sludge at the
bottom of the tank. I have used cheese cloth to catch fines, but I
don't know if it's worth the trouble. I suppose that one mucks the
coolant tank out once a year to remove the sludge.

Looks like you've thought it all out so replacing it once a year seems to be
a good choice.

The biggest problem I have with old coolant is way oil floating on the
surface in the tank and getting dispersed into the pumped coolant. That was
the reason for my last coolant changeout. I've since installed a belt
skimmer but am not sure it is doing as good a job as hoped for.

Mike

In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
snip

My coolant pumps have the standard hemisphere screens, so they don't
catch the fines, which will most likely accumulate as sludge at the
bottom of the tank. I have used cheese cloth to catch fines, but I
don't know if it's worth the trouble. I suppose that one mucks the
coolant tank out once a year to remove the sludge.

Looks like you've thought it all out so replacing it once a year seems to be
a good choice.

Given my low volume use, all things point towards periodic cleanout and
coolant replacement.


The biggest problem I have with old coolant is way oil floating on the
surface in the tank and getting dispersed into the pumped coolant. That was
the reason for my last coolant changeout. I've since installed a belt
skimmer but am not sure it is doing as good a job as hoped for.

When I finish setting the lathe up for flood cooling, we'll see how much
trouble I have with way oil. Given that the coolant tank is 3 gallons
and the pump intake is about 8" below the surface, I bet the oil will
accumulate on the surface, and will not circulate, so it may be easy to
manually skim with a swatch of polyester fabric (to which oil sticks far
tighter than does water). What may work is a wad of the spun polyester
filler used in many pillows, available in sewing and fabric supply
stores. Or by disassembly of ratty old pillows.

Polyester. There was an old trick to get water out of gasoline, to
filter it through a bit of polyester fabric. I think nylon also worked.
Anyway, water would not wet the gasoline soaked fabric, so only the gas
could get through the fabric.

What I don't know is how well this would work with soluble oil.

Joe Gwinn

On 2009-08-09, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
When I finish setting the lathe up for flood cooling, we'll see how much
trouble I have with way oil. Given that the coolant tank is 3 gallons
and the pump intake is about 8" below the surface, I bet the oil will
accumulate on the surface, and will not circulate, so it may be easy to
manually skim with a swatch of polyester fabric (to which oil sticks far
tighter than does water). What may work is a wad of the spun polyester
filler used in many pillows, available in sewing and fabric supply
stores. Or by disassembly of ratty old pillows.

Very smart idea Joe, I learned something worthwhile today.

i

Polyester. There was an old trick to get water out of gasoline, to
filter it through a bit of polyester fabric. I think nylon also worked.
Anyway, water would not wet the gasoline soaked fabric, so only the gas
could get through the fabric.

What I don't know is how well this would work with soluble oil.

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
Ignoramus27305 wrote:

On 2009-08-09, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
When I finish setting the lathe up for flood cooling, we'll see how much
trouble I have with way oil. Given that the coolant tank is 3 gallons
and the pump intake is about 8" below the surface, I bet the oil will
accumulate on the surface, and will not circulate, so it may be easy to
manually skim with a swatch of polyester fabric (to which oil sticks far
tighter than does water). What may work is a wad of the spun polyester
filler used in many pillows, available in sewing and fabric supply
stores. Or by disassembly of ratty old pillows.

Very smart idea Joe, I learned something worthwhile today.

Thanks, but this is what those moving belt skimmers are trying to
automate.

Admit it - it's the recycling of ratty old pillows that you like the
most.

Joe Gwinn