Seems the boys on wall street have taken a unproven theory and spun it into
a fact in order to
reap huge profits with a cap and trade systen based on carbon. Can you say
carbon buble,
carbon bail-out ? Estimates that american citizens will be forced to pay an
editional $1600.00
in unnessary costs are conservative at best. With an unregulated cap and
trade system in place
market manipulators such as hedge funds will manipulate the markets to reap
in huge profits
like they did with copper and other metals not to long ago and we all pay
the price.

A recent report challenging AGW theory showed significant support with
31,478 U.S. researchers and scientists, many of whom hold Ph.D's, signing a
statement that they believe that man has not played a part in the current
warming trend.

Arizona is now close to becoming the first state to outlaw climate change
legislation. The state Senate voted Monday, 19-10 to approve a bill banning
the Department of Environmental Quality from enacting or enforcing measures
with language pertaining to climate change. The bill is now awaiting House
approval.

If Senate Bill 1147 passes it will block rules passed by the DEQ that set
harsher emission standards. The proposed increases were hastily pushed
through by the former governor, despite complaints from industry leaders.
It would also end work on "cap and trade" carbon legislation, which has been
opposed by the utility industry. Such a scheme could help to raise power
prices for the state's citizens significantly.

http://www.dailytech.com/Arizona%2BL...ticle15523.htm

Best Regards
Tom.

"azotic" wrote in message
...
Seems the boys on wall street have taken a unproven theory and spun it
into a fact in order to
reap huge profits with a cap and trade systen based on carbon. Can you say
carbon buble,
carbon bail-out ? Estimates that american citizens will be forced to pay
an editional $1600.00
in unnessary costs are conservative at best. With an unregulated cap and
trade system in place
market manipulators such as hedge funds will manipulate the markets to
reap in huge profits
like they did with copper and other metals not to long ago and we all pay
the price.

A recent report challenging AGW theory showed significant support with
31,478 U.S. researchers and scientists, many of whom hold Ph.D's, signing
a statement that they believe that man has not played a part in the
current warming trend.

Arizona is now close to becoming the first state to outlaw climate change
legislation. The state Senate voted Monday, 19-10 to approve a bill
banning the Department of Environmental Quality from enacting or enforcing
measures with language pertaining to climate change. The bill is now
awaiting House approval.

If Senate Bill 1147 passes it will block rules passed by the DEQ that set
harsher emission standards. The proposed increases were hastily pushed
through by the former governor, despite complaints from industry leaders.
It would also end work on "cap and trade" carbon legislation, which has
been opposed by the utility industry. Such a scheme could help to raise
power prices for the state's citizens significantly.

http://www.dailytech.com/Arizona%2BL...ticle15523.htm

Best Regards
Tom.


Those cost estimates are way low. Count on energy to increase 50%, and
that's just the camel's nose in the tent. Every good and service will be
affected and will increase costs a similar percentage. This isn't about the
climate, it's about social engineering, power and money. What companies
will stay in the US? I already have relationships with companies with
plants and markets offshore. Our global competitors are laughing at the US.

On Jun 26, 10:09*pm, "azotic" wrote:
Seems the boys on wall street have taken a unproven theory and spun it into
a fact in order to
reap huge profits with a cap and trade systen based on carbon. Can you say
carbon buble,
carbon bail-out ? Estimates that american citizens will be forced to pay an
editional $1600.00
in unnessary costs are conservative at best. With an unregulated *cap and
trade system in place
market manipulators such as hedge funds will manipulate the markets to reap
in huge profits
like they did with copper and other metals not to long ago and we all pay
the price.

A recent report challenging AGW theory showed significant support with
31,478 U.S. researchers and scientists, many of whom hold Ph.D's, signing a
statement that they believe that man has not played a part in the current
warming trend.

Arizona is now close to becoming the first state to outlaw climate change
legislation. *The state Senate voted Monday, 19-10 to approve a bill banning
the Department of Environmental Quality from enacting or enforcing measures
with language pertaining to climate change. *The bill is now awaiting House
approval.

If Senate Bill 1147 passes it will block rules passed by the DEQ that set
harsher emission standards. *The proposed increases were hastily pushed
through by the former governor, despite complaints from industry leaders.
It would also end work on "cap and trade" carbon legislation, which has been
opposed by the utility industry. *Such a scheme could help to raise power
prices for the state's citizens significantly.

http://www.dailytech.com/Arizona%2BL...2BGlobal%2BWar...

Best Regards
Tom.

Ironic since Arizona will be one of the first states that would
benefit from a reduction of global warming.

TMT

On Jun 27, 12:44*am, "Buerste" wrote:
"azotic" wrote in message

...



Seems the boys on wall street have taken a unproven theory and spun it
into a fact in order to
reap huge profits with a cap and trade systen based on carbon. Can you say
carbon buble,
carbon bail-out ? Estimates that american citizens will be forced to pay
an editional $1600.00
in unnessary costs are conservative at best. With an unregulated *cap and
trade system in place
market manipulators such as hedge funds will manipulate the markets to
reap in huge profits
like they did with copper and other metals not to long ago and we all pay
the price.

A recent report challenging AGW theory showed significant support with
31,478 U.S. researchers and scientists, many of whom hold Ph.D's, signing
a statement that they believe that man has not played a part in the
current warming trend.

Arizona is now close to becoming the first state to outlaw climate change
legislation. *The state Senate voted Monday, 19-10 to approve a bill
banning the Department of Environmental Quality from enacting or enforcing
measures with language pertaining to climate change. *The bill is now
awaiting House approval.

If Senate Bill 1147 passes it will block rules passed by the DEQ that set
harsher emission standards. *The proposed increases were hastily pushed
through by the former governor, despite complaints from industry leaders.
It would also end work on "cap and trade" carbon legislation, which has
been opposed by the utility industry. *Such a scheme could help to raise
power prices for the state's citizens significantly.

http://www.dailytech.com/Arizona%2BL...2BGlobal%2BWar...

Best Regards
Tom.

Those cost estimates are way low. *Count on energy to increase 50%, and
that's just the camel's nose in the tent. *Every good and service will be
affected and will increase costs a similar percentage. *This isn't about the
climate, it's about social engineering, power and money. *What companies
will stay in the US? *I already have relationships with companies with
plants and markets offshore. *Our global competitors are laughing at the US.

LOL...how will that help you when "Buy American" is enforced?

TMT

On Jun 27, 6:40*pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

LOL...how will that help you when "Buy American" is enforced?

TMT

First what makes you think it will be enforced?

Second " Buy American " only applies to U.S. government purchases.

Dan

"Buerste" wrote in message
...

"azotic" wrote in message
...
Seems the boys on wall street have taken a unproven theory and spun it
into a fact in order to
reap huge profits with a cap and trade systen based on carbon. Can you
say
carbon buble,
carbon bail-out ? Estimates that american citizens will be forced to pay
an editional $1600.00
in unnessary costs are conservative at best. With an unregulated cap
and
trade system in place
market manipulators such as hedge funds will manipulate the markets to
reap in huge profits
like they did with copper and other metals not to long ago and we all
pay
the price.

A recent report challenging AGW theory showed significant support with
31,478 U.S. researchers and scientists, many of whom hold Ph.D's,
signing
a statement that they believe that man has not played a part in the
current warming trend.

Arizona is now close to becoming the first state to outlaw climate
change
legislation. The state Senate voted Monday, 19-10 to approve a bill
banning the Department of Environmental Quality from enacting or
enforcing
measures with language pertaining to climate change. The bill is now
awaiting House approval.

If Senate Bill 1147 passes it will block rules passed by the DEQ that
set
harsher emission standards. The proposed increases were hastily pushed
through by the former governor, despite complaints from industry
leaders.
It would also end work on "cap and trade" carbon legislation, which has
been opposed by the utility industry. Such a scheme could help to raise
power prices for the state's citizens significantly.


http://www.dailytech.com/Arizona%2BL...ticle15523.htm

Best Regards
Tom.


Those cost estimates are way low. Count on energy to increase 50%, and
that's just the camel's nose in the tent. Every good and service will be
affected and will increase costs a similar percentage. This isn't about
the
climate, it's about social engineering, power and money. What companies
will stay in the US? I already have relationships with companies with
plants and markets offshore. Our global competitors are laughing at the
US.


They won't be laughing when we have changed course from getting our energy
from fossil fuels, aren't held hostage anymore because we can function
without foreign oil, and have plenty of clean energy from alternative
sources. When we've moved ahead and away from the dirty, finite, old energy
sources of the past I'd say they won't be laughing, they'll be crying,
especially in the Mideast. And they will be scrambling like crazy to keep up
by copying what we just did.

Hawke

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Jun 26, 10:09 pm, "azotic" wrote:
Seems the boys on wall street have taken a unproven theory and spun it
into
a fact in order to
reap huge profits with a cap and trade systen based on carbon. Can you say
carbon buble,
carbon bail-out ? Estimates that american citizens will be forced to pay
an
editional $1600.00
in unnessary costs are conservative at best. With an unregulated cap and
trade system in place
market manipulators such as hedge funds will manipulate the markets to
reap
in huge profits
like they did with copper and other metals not to long ago and we all pay
the price.

A recent report challenging AGW theory showed significant support with
31,478 U.S. researchers and scientists, many of whom hold Ph.D's, signing
a
statement that they believe that man has not played a part in the current
warming trend.

Arizona is now close to becoming the first state to outlaw climate change
legislation. The state Senate voted Monday, 19-10 to approve a bill
banning
the Department of Environmental Quality from enacting or enforcing
measures
with language pertaining to climate change. The bill is now awaiting House
approval.

If Senate Bill 1147 passes it will block rules passed by the DEQ that set
harsher emission standards. The proposed increases were hastily pushed
through by the former governor, despite complaints from industry leaders.
It would also end work on "cap and trade" carbon legislation, which has
been
opposed by the utility industry. Such a scheme could help to raise power
prices for the state's citizens significantly.

http://www.dailytech.com/Arizona%2BL...2BGlobal%2BWar...

Best Regards
Tom.

Ironic since Arizona will be one of the first states that would
benefit from a reduction of global warming.

TMT


Yeah, if they were smart they would be moving like mad to switch over to
solar power for everything. But then they are conservative, so they're not
smart, they're not proactive, they're old fashioned, and they will stick
with doing things the old ways until innovation is forced on them. It is so
sad having conservatives in charge. So foolish. Glad I don't live there. By
the way, where I live one of our biggest local businesses, Sierra Nevada
Brewing Co., just installed the largest array of solar panels of any private
business in the state at their brewery. 90% of their power is now coming
from solar. Boy, are they stupid. Don't they know that switching to
alternative energy isn't going to work? They should be listening to
conservatives and sticking with the old ways of doing things. Oil always
worked in the past, why change?

Hawke

The federal government doesn't buy only American - Armed forces clothing
is made overseas.
Remember the Commie RED Barret's Clinton ordered for the troops ?

Even when it is Jones and Smith of Los Angles - it might be an import.

Treaties force buying this or that and that is dumped onto someone...

Martin

wrote:
On Jun 27, 6:40 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

LOL...how will that help you when "Buy American" is enforced?

TMT

First what makes you think it will be enforced?

Second " Buy American " only applies to U.S. government purchases.

Dan

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:40:22 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:



Those cost estimates are way low. *Count on energy to increase 50%, and
that's just the camel's nose in the tent. *Every good and service will be
affected and will increase costs a similar percentage. *This isn't about the
climate, it's about social engineering, power and money. *What companies
will stay in the US? *I already have relationships with companies with
plants and markets offshore. *Our global competitors are laughing at the US.

LOL...how will that help you when "Buy American" is enforced?

TMT

"Buy American" can't be enforced when there's nothing American to buy.

On Jun 27, 4:50*pm, " wrote:
On Jun 27, 6:40*pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

LOL...how will that help you when "Buy American" is enforced?

TMT

First what makes you think it will be enforced?

Second " Buy American " only applies to U.S. government purchases.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan

Times are changing...haven't you heard?

It can be enforced...and will be.

The large corporations are scared for a reason.

Sit back and study the situation and you will see it.

TMT

On Jun 27, 6:26*pm, "Hawke" wrote:
"Buerste" wrote in message

...







"azotic" wrote in message
...
Seems the boys on wall street have taken a unproven theory and spun it
into a fact in order to
reap huge profits with a cap and trade systen based on carbon. Can you
say
carbon buble,
carbon bail-out ? Estimates that american citizens will be forced to pay
an editional $1600.00
in unnessary costs are conservative at best. With an unregulated *cap
and
trade system in place
market manipulators such as hedge funds will manipulate the markets to
reap in huge profits
like they did with copper and other metals not to long ago and we all
pay
the price.

A recent report challenging AGW theory showed significant support with
31,478 U.S. researchers and scientists, many of whom hold Ph.D's,
signing
a statement that they believe that man has not played a part in the
current warming trend.

Arizona is now close to becoming the first state to outlaw climate
change
legislation. *The state Senate voted Monday, 19-10 to approve a bill
banning the Department of Environmental Quality from enacting or
enforcing
measures with language pertaining to climate change. *The bill is now
awaiting House approval.

If Senate Bill 1147 passes it will block rules passed by the DEQ that
set
harsher emission standards. *The proposed increases were hastily pushed
through by the former governor, despite complaints from industry
leaders.
It would also end work on "cap and trade" carbon legislation, which has
been opposed by the utility industry. *Such a scheme could help to raise
power prices for the state's citizens significantly.

http://www.dailytech.com/Arizona%2BL...2BGlobal%2BWar...

Best Regards
Tom.

Those cost estimates are way low. *Count on energy to increase 50%, and
that's just the camel's nose in the tent. *Every good and service will be
affected and will increase costs a similar percentage. *This isn't about
the
climate, it's about social engineering, power and money. *What companies
will stay in the US? *I already have relationships with companies with
plants and markets offshore. *Our global competitors are laughing at the

US.

They won't be laughing when we have changed course from getting our energy
from fossil fuels, aren't held hostage anymore because we can function
without foreign oil, and have plenty of clean energy from alternative
sources. When we've moved ahead and away from the dirty, finite, old energy
sources of the past I'd say they won't be laughing, they'll be crying,
especially in the Mideast. And they will be scrambling like crazy to keep up
by copying what we just did.

Hawke

And doing everything they can to stop us...just like they have for
decades.

Not having an oilman as President gives the United States a chance to
make it happen.

TMT

On Jun 28, 10:39*pm, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:
The federal government doesn't buy only American - Armed forces clothing
is made overseas.
Remember the Commie RED Barret's Clinton ordered for the troops ?

Even when it is Jones and Smith of Los Angles - it might be an import.

Treaties force buying this or that and that is dumped onto someone...

Martin

wrote:
On Jun 27, 6:40 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

LOL...how will that help you when "Buy American" is enforced?

TMT

First what makes you think it will be enforced?

Second " Buy American " only applies to U.S. government purchases.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan

Treaties are going to be rewritten...they are already working on it.

Another reason why corporations are working to undercut Obama.

TMT

On Jun 28, 11:03*pm, Don Foreman
wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:40:22 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools

wrote:

Those cost estimates are way low. *Count on energy to increase 50%, and
that's just the camel's nose in the tent. *Every good and service will be
affected and will increase costs a similar percentage. *This isn't about the
climate, it's about social engineering, power and money. *What companies
will stay in the US? *I already have relationships with companies with
plants and markets offshore. *Our global competitors are laughing at the US.

LOL...how will that help you when "Buy American" is enforced?

TMT

"Buy American" can't be enforced when there's nothing American to buy.

LOL...things change.

What went overseas is already coming back.

Pay attention and you can see it happening.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 28, 10:39 pm, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:
The federal government doesn't buy only American - Armed forces clothing
is made overseas.
Remember the Commie RED Barret's Clinton ordered for the troops ?

Even when it is Jones and Smith of Los Angles - it might be an import.

Treaties force buying this or that and that is dumped onto someone...

Martin

wrote:
On Jun 27, 6:40 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
LOL...how will that help you when "Buy American" is enforced?
TMT
First what makes you think it will be enforced?
Second " Buy American " only applies to U.S. government purchases.
Dan

Treaties are going to be rewritten...they are already working on it.

Another reason why corporations are working to undercut Obama.

TMT


We don't _do_ treaties... (they are too binding)

We do "favored status".

"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
We don't _do_ treaties... (they are too binding)

We do "favored status".


Really. Check here.
http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/treaties/2009/index.htm

Runs 4.29 mb, 420+ pages .pdf Some interesting stuff in there.