I'm wondering what plating materials can be applied to polished cast
aluminum parts, and how difficult the process would be, such as unobtainable
chemicals or other problems.

It dawned on me that I've seen chrome plated alternators and other aluminum
dress-up parts for cars, but never really paid that much attention to them.
I've seen many applications where a flash-thin chrome plating finish peels
off, and thicker, apparently poorly done or poorly prepared plating that
peels, forming razor-sharp cutting edges (on hand tools, BTW).

I have an old Dumore 1/3 HP universal electric motor (approx. 3.5" dia.)
that has a lustrous-silver appearance, and I've been wondering what the
plating might be.
The plating is old, I suspect 1950s or maybe as old as the 1940s, and
doesn't look like new or old chrome generally does, instead, it's slightly
dull (like myself) with a greyish and yellowish cast to it.
This finish hasn't been cleaned any time in recent years, which looks
better, to me anyway.

There is an area where some of the plating has been ground away (probably to
remove an engraving) where a sub-layer looks like copper.

The bare base metal looks like oxidized aluminum, and it's non magnetic, so
I assume it's cast aluminum, based on the unusual shape (motor end bells
with various features such as bearing bosses and small oil ports with
reserviors).
Unlike most other electrical gear, I didn't disassemble this to see what
it's like inside (only beause it didn't appear to have been tampered with).

I don't have any desire to restore the plated part, I just thought it to be
a bit unusual for aluminum to be plated on a utility tool-type part, when
just polishing the aluminum would have provided a good appearance, at least
while the motor was new.
It appears to have been polished prior to plating, but plating generally
outlasts paint or other coatings.

The plating may have been a "pride in our name" and/or a better quality than
our competitors' products appearance-comparison issue, in that bright
plating would appear to be a much better grade of finish than wrinkle paint,
I suppose.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
I'm wondering what plating materials can be applied to polished cast
aluminum parts, and how difficult the process would be, such as
unobtainable chemicals or other problems.

It dawned on me that I've seen chrome plated alternators and other
aluminum dress-up parts for cars, but never really paid that much
attention to them.
I've seen many applications where a flash-thin chrome plating finish peels
off, and thicker, apparently poorly done or poorly prepared plating that
peels, forming razor-sharp cutting edges (on hand tools, BTW).

I have an old Dumore 1/3 HP universal electric motor (approx. 3.5" dia.)
that has a lustrous-silver appearance, and I've been wondering what the
plating might be.
The plating is old, I suspect 1950s or maybe as old as the 1940s, and
doesn't look like new or old chrome generally does, instead, it's slightly
dull (like myself) with a greyish and yellowish cast to it.
This finish hasn't been cleaned any time in recent years, which looks
better, to me anyway.

'Sounds like nickel. That was a common final plating until the '50s, when
they started putting flash chrome on top of it for everything.


There is an area where some of the plating has been ground away (probably
to remove an engraving) where a sub-layer looks like copper.

It probably is. Copper was used for leveling, but also to get a better grip.
A typical first-class chrome plating job on steel is, first, a very thin
flash coating of nickel (it promotes adhesion); copper plating to level the
surface; a regular nickel plating on top of that; and chrome plating, often
quite thin, on top of the whole works.


The bare base metal looks like oxidized aluminum, and it's non magnetic,
so I assume it's cast aluminum, based on the unusual shape (motor end
bells with various features such as bearing bosses and small oil ports
with reserviors).
Unlike most other electrical gear, I didn't disassemble this to see what
it's like inside (only beause it didn't appear to have been tampered
with).

I don't have any desire to restore the plated part, I just thought it to
be a bit unusual for aluminum to be plated on a utility tool-type part,
when just polishing the aluminum would have provided a good appearance, at
least while the motor was new.
It appears to have been polished prior to plating, but plating generally
outlasts paint or other coatings.

Nickel was stylish and implied quality in those days.


The plating may have been a "pride in our name" and/or a better quality
than our competitors' products appearance-comparison issue, in that bright
plating would appear to be a much better grade of finish than wrinkle
paint, I suppose.

You probably suppose right.

--
Ed Huntress

The chrome plating process is done in three steps, after polishing.
1st, a copper plate. This can be done thin, or heavy and repeatedly to use
as a filler to sand out defects on old or pitted parts.
2nd, a nickle plate for the color. Nickle is soft and easy to scratch, but
this is was the final finish until sometime in the mid 30's.
3rd, chrome has been described as a "hard clear coat" over the nickle,
giving a brighter and more durable finish.
This is where the redundant phrase "triple plated" originates.
This process can be applied to nearly anything, leather baby shoes, wax
forms, etc, if care is taken to avoid high temps in the tank.
I find that aluminum tends to peel after a few years outside or on an
engine, so prefer to polish it.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

On Mar 6, 10:49*pm, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
I'm wondering what plating materials can be applied to polished cast
aluminum parts, and how difficult the process would be, such as unobtainable
chemicals or other problems.

I sent machined aluminum microwave radio enclosures out for nickel
plating because it was cheap and maintained conductivity between the
cover and chassis better than the bare metal over time. These were
prototype aircraft radios that may see condensation when descending
into humid air. IIRC the lot charge was about $80 fifteen years ago.

I think nickel and copper plate well without cyanide, copper from the
sulphate and nickel from the acetate, but I haven't tried it.

Thanks again, Ed. Would you know whether nickel is significantly less
dangerous, easier or cheaper to apply to small parts on a hobby-level scale?

I kinda suspect that both would involve about the same aspects and safety
issues.

The only source of nickel I know of presently, would be rods for electric
welding cast iron, but I'm sure there would be sources of the right alloy to
use for plating.

I think it's DoN that regularly applies electroplating to some of his small
machined parts, so maybe there will be other comments regarding home shop
plating.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...


'Sounds like nickel. That was a common final plating until the '50s, when
they started putting flash chrome on top of it for everything.


There is an area where some of the plating has been ground away (probably
to remove an engraving) where a sub-layer looks like copper.

It probably is. Copper was used for leveling, but also to get a better
grip. A typical first-class chrome plating job on steel is, first, a very
thin flash coating of nickel (it promotes adhesion); copper plating to
level the surface; a regular nickel plating on top of that; and chrome
plating, often quite thin, on top of the whole works.



Nickel was stylish and implied quality in those days.


The plating may have been a "pride in our name" and/or a better quality
than our competitors' products appearance-comparison issue, in that
bright plating would appear to be a much better grade of finish than
wrinkle paint, I suppose.

You probably suppose right.

--
Ed Huntress

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
Thanks again, Ed. Would you know whether nickel is significantly less
dangerous, easier or cheaper to apply to small parts on a hobby-level
scale?

Not from personal experience, but it's supposed to be easy. So is copper.
Some people here may have experience with the Caswell kits, which are very
simple and apparently very satisfactory for many things.


I kinda suspect that both would involve about the same aspects and safety
issues.

The only source of nickel I know of presently, would be rods for electric
welding cast iron, but I'm sure there would be sources of the right alloy
to use for plating.

I think it's DoN that regularly applies electroplating to some of his
small machined parts, so maybe there will be other comments regarding home
shop plating.

--
WB

Probably. Several people here have discussed it in the past.

--
Ed Huntress

Thanks for the additional info, Jim. It's mainly a curiousity to me at
present, but plating small parts with nickel to inhibit corrosion and/or
improve conductivity could be a very useful procedure if it's not too
complicated.

I'll be having a closer look at Caswell's products and kits.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Mar 6, 10:49 pm, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
I'm wondering what plating materials can be applied to polished cast
aluminum parts, and how difficult the process would be, such as
unobtainable
chemicals or other problems.

I sent machined aluminum microwave radio enclosures out for nickel
plating because it was cheap and maintained conductivity between the
cover and chassis better than the bare metal over time. These were
prototype aircraft radios that may see condensation when descending
into humid air. IIRC the lot charge was about $80 fifteen years ago.

I think nickel and copper plate well without cyanide, copper from the
sulphate and nickel from the acetate, but I haven't tried it.

DIY metal plating kits are sold he

http://www.caswellplating.com/

Some is a lot easier than others, but you can even do real chrome at home.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.


"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
Thanks again, Ed. Would you know whether nickel is significantly less
dangerous, easier or cheaper to apply to small parts on a hobby-level
scale?

I kinda suspect that both would involve about the same aspects and safety
issues.

The only source of nickel I know of presently, would be rods for electric
welding cast iron, but I'm sure there would be sources of the right alloy
to
use for plating.

I think it's DoN that regularly applies electroplating to some of his
small
machined parts, so maybe there will be other comments regarding home shop
plating.

--
WB
.........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...


'Sounds like nickel. That was a common final plating until the '50s,
when
they started putting flash chrome on top of it for everything.


There is an area where some of the plating has been ground away
(probably
to remove an engraving) where a sub-layer looks like copper.

It probably is. Copper was used for leveling, but also to get a better
grip. A typical first-class chrome plating job on steel is, first, a
very
thin flash coating of nickel (it promotes adhesion); copper plating to
level the surface; a regular nickel plating on top of that; and chrome
plating, often quite thin, on top of the whole works.



Nickel was stylish and implied quality in those days.


The plating may have been a "pride in our name" and/or a better quality
than our competitors' products appearance-comparison issue, in that
bright plating would appear to be a much better grade of finish than
wrinkle paint, I suppose.

You probably suppose right.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:49:51 -0500, Wild_Bill wrote:

I'm wondering what plating materials can be applied to polished cast
aluminum parts, and how difficult the process would be, such as
unobtainable chemicals or other problems.

It dawned on me that I've seen chrome plated alternators and other
aluminum dress-up parts for cars, but never really paid that much
attention to them. I've seen many applications where a flash-thin chrome
plating finish peels off, and thicker, apparently poorly done or poorly
prepared plating that peels, forming razor-sharp cutting edges (on hand
tools, BTW).

I have an old Dumore 1/3 HP universal electric motor (approx. 3.5" dia.)
that has a lustrous-silver appearance, and I've been wondering what the
plating might be.
The plating is old, I suspect 1950s or maybe as old as the 1940s, and
doesn't look like new or old chrome generally does, instead, it's
slightly dull (like myself) with a greyish and yellowish cast to it.
This finish hasn't been cleaned any time in recent years, which looks
better, to me anyway.

There is an area where some of the plating has been ground away
(probably to remove an engraving) where a sub-layer looks like copper.

The bare base metal looks like oxidized aluminum, and it's non magnetic,
so I assume it's cast aluminum, based on the unusual shape (motor end
bells with various features such as bearing bosses and small oil ports
with reserviors).
Unlike most other electrical gear, I didn't disassemble this to see what
it's like inside (only beause it didn't appear to have been tampered
with).

I don't have any desire to restore the plated part, I just thought it to
be a bit unusual for aluminum to be plated on a utility tool-type part,
when just polishing the aluminum would have provided a good appearance,
at least while the motor was new.
It appears to have been polished prior to plating, but plating generally
outlasts paint or other coatings.

The plating may have been a "pride in our name" and/or a better quality
than our competitors' products appearance-comparison issue, in that
bright plating would appear to be a much better grade of finish than
wrinkle paint, I suppose.

My understanding, from one of the mechanical engineers at one of my
clients, is that copper is sort of the universal primer of metal plating
-- it'll stick to most anything, and most anything will stick to it.

I'd never heard of a flash of nickel under the copper to plate steel,
though.

(Note that one of the things this place buys is electro-formed shields --
the manufacturer makes an aluminum mandrel, puts a _thick_ copper plating
on it, then chucks the whole thing into a solution that dissolves the
mandrel but leaves the copper behind. It's a great way to make strong,
light, thin-wall really complex pieces.)

--
http://www.wescottdesign.com

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:49:51 -0500, Wild_Bill wrote:

I'm wondering what plating materials can be applied to polished cast
aluminum parts, and how difficult the process would be, such as
unobtainable chemicals or other problems.

It dawned on me that I've seen chrome plated alternators and other
aluminum dress-up parts for cars, but never really paid that much
attention to them. I've seen many applications where a flash-thin chrome
plating finish peels off, and thicker, apparently poorly done or poorly
prepared plating that peels, forming razor-sharp cutting edges (on hand
tools, BTW).

I have an old Dumore 1/3 HP universal electric motor (approx. 3.5" dia.)
that has a lustrous-silver appearance, and I've been wondering what the
plating might be.
The plating is old, I suspect 1950s or maybe as old as the 1940s, and
doesn't look like new or old chrome generally does, instead, it's
slightly dull (like myself) with a greyish and yellowish cast to it.
This finish hasn't been cleaned any time in recent years, which looks
better, to me anyway.

There is an area where some of the plating has been ground away
(probably to remove an engraving) where a sub-layer looks like copper.

The bare base metal looks like oxidized aluminum, and it's non magnetic,
so I assume it's cast aluminum, based on the unusual shape (motor end
bells with various features such as bearing bosses and small oil ports
with reserviors).
Unlike most other electrical gear, I didn't disassemble this to see what
it's like inside (only beause it didn't appear to have been tampered
with).

I don't have any desire to restore the plated part, I just thought it to
be a bit unusual for aluminum to be plated on a utility tool-type part,
when just polishing the aluminum would have provided a good appearance,
at least while the motor was new.
It appears to have been polished prior to plating, but plating generally
outlasts paint or other coatings.

The plating may have been a "pride in our name" and/or a better quality
than our competitors' products appearance-comparison issue, in that
bright plating would appear to be a much better grade of finish than
wrinkle paint, I suppose.

My understanding, from one of the mechanical engineers at one of my
clients, is that copper is sort of the universal primer of metal plating
-- it'll stick to most anything, and most anything will stick to it.

I'd never heard of a flash of nickel under the copper to plate steel,
though.

"It is in most cases still essential to deposit a thin initial layer of
copper from a cyanide colution onto both steel and zinc alloy diecastings
for reasons already discussed, prior to their being acid copper plated.
Alternatively, a thin initial nickel layer deposited from any standard bath
is also quite satisfactory on ferrous substrates. In both cases, the thin
initial layer is often called a 'strike plate'. (_Nickel and Chromium
Plating_)

Punctuation is per the original -- in other words, this is a British book.
g In American parlance, this initial layer is called a "strike layer." If
you Google [nickel "strike layer"] you'll see that nickel is used for the
strike on many other metals as well, often under a copper leveling layer,
which is then topped with nickel, and then chromium. But cyanide-based
copper can also used for strike layers. The leveling layer is sometimes
electroless, but more commonly it's copper plated from an acid bath, rather
than a cyanide bath.

Top-quality chrome plating, therefore, actually is a four-layer process,
even if the first two layers are different methods of plating copper. My
limited understanding is that nickel is used for the flash more often than
copper in high-volume operations. It's done that way where durability is
important and they don't want to use excessively thick layers of plating.


(Note that one of the things this place buys is electro-formed shields --
the manufacturer makes an aluminum mandrel, puts a _thick_ copper plating
on it, then chucks the whole thing into a solution that dissolves the
mandrel but leaves the copper behind. It's a great way to make strong,
light, thin-wall really complex pieces.)

--
http://www.wescottdesign.com

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:36:15 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Thanks again, Ed. Would you know whether nickel is significantly less
dangerous, easier or cheaper to apply to small parts on a hobby-level scale?

I kinda suspect that both would involve about the same aspects and safety
issues.

The only source of nickel I know of presently, would be rods for electric
welding cast iron, but I'm sure there would be sources of the right alloy to
use for plating.

I think it's DoN that regularly applies electroplating to some of his small
machined parts, so maybe there will be other comments regarding home shop
plating.

Don, not DoN. I plate with zinc, tin, copper and nickle using
materials from Caswell. There are two nickle processes, electrolytic
and electroless. Once you get your parts absolutely clean, electroless
nickle plating is about as hard as boiling an egg.

Plating onto zinc, "white metal" or aluminum requires special steps.
It can be done but I don't do it. Caswell does offer materials to do
this, as in plating die-cast white-metal auto trim parts with chrome
or nickel.

Caswell also offers chrome, but I don't mess with that either. Chromic
acid is nasty stuff that produces toxic fumes, while the chemicals I
use are quite benign.

www.caswellplating.com

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:36:15 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Thanks again, Ed. Would you know whether nickel is significantly less
dangerous, easier or cheaper to apply to small parts on a hobby-level
scale?

I kinda suspect that both would involve about the same aspects and safety
issues.

The only source of nickel I know of presently, would be rods for electric
welding cast iron, but I'm sure there would be sources of the right alloy
to
use for plating.

I think it's DoN that regularly applies electroplating to some of his
small
machined parts, so maybe there will be other comments regarding home shop
plating.

Don, not DoN. I plate with zinc, tin, copper and nickle using
materials from Caswell. There are two nickle processes, electrolytic
and electroless. Once you get your parts absolutely clean, electroless
nickle plating is about as hard as boiling an egg.

Plating onto zinc, "white metal" or aluminum requires special steps.
It can be done but I don't do it. Caswell does offer materials to do
this, as in plating die-cast white-metal auto trim parts with chrome
or nickel.

Caswell also offers chrome, but I don't mess with that either. Chromic
acid is nasty stuff that produces toxic fumes, while the chemicals I
use are quite benign.

www.caswellplating.com

How difficult is the zinc plating, Don?

--
Ed Huntress

Thanks, Don.. I realized my error when I noticed your remarks about their
products as I was looking at the Caswell site today.

That is an easy website to find information on, almost as if they tried to
make it easy for potential customers to find the correct products.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:36:15 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I think it's DoN that regularly applies electroplating to some of his
small
machined parts, so maybe there will be other comments regarding home shop
plating.

Don, not DoN. I plate with zinc, tin, copper and nickle using
materials from Caswell. There are two nickle processes, electrolytic
and electroless. Once you get your parts absolutely clean, electroless
nickle plating is about as hard as boiling an egg.

Plating onto zinc, "white metal" or aluminum requires special steps.
It can be done but I don't do it. Caswell does offer materials to do
this, as in plating die-cast white-metal auto trim parts with chrome
or nickel.

Caswell also offers chrome, but I don't mess with that either. Chromic
acid is nasty stuff that produces toxic fumes, while the chemicals I
use are quite benign.

www.caswellplating.com

On 2009-03-07, Wild_Bill wrote:
Thanks again, Ed. Would you know whether nickel is significantly less
dangerous, easier or cheaper to apply to small parts on a hobby-level scale?

I kinda suspect that both would involve about the same aspects and safety
issues.

The only source of nickel I know of presently, would be rods for electric
welding cast iron, but I'm sure there would be sources of the right alloy to
use for plating.

There is (or at least used to be) an "electroless nickel
plating" solution offered for plating vias through printed circuit
boards. (There was also an "electroless gold" for the same purpose.)

O.K. A quick Google search for "electroless nickel" came up
with a WikiPedia page which includes the following text:

================================================== ====================
It is also used extensively in the manufacture of hard disk drives, as a
magnetically neutral base coating on aluminium platters (disks) prior to
finishing with an magnetic read/write iron oxide coating.
================================================== ====================

which suggests that it is a workable way for plating aluminum. The
WikiPedia article is at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroless_nickel_plating

The Google search found a lot of other hits, many of which are
vendors of the solution for the purpose.

I think it's DoN that regularly applies electroplating to some of his small
machined parts, so maybe there will be other comments regarding home shop
plating.

Not I. Perhaps Don Foreman?

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

There is (or at least used to be) an "electroless nickel
plating" solution offered for plating vias through printed circuit
boards. (There was also an "electroless gold" for the same purpose.)


Most of the parts that I make that get plated are done in electroless
nickel, as that's what was original for Lotus.
I don't know who does the work, but can find out who our California source
is if you want it.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 13:26:53 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:36:15 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Thanks again, Ed. Would you know whether nickel is significantly less
dangerous, easier or cheaper to apply to small parts on a hobby-level
scale?

I kinda suspect that both would involve about the same aspects and safety
issues.

The only source of nickel I know of presently, would be rods for electric
welding cast iron, but I'm sure there would be sources of the right alloy
to
use for plating.

I think it's DoN that regularly applies electroplating to some of his
small
machined parts, so maybe there will be other comments regarding home shop
plating.

Don, not DoN. I plate with zinc, tin, copper and nickle using
materials from Caswell. There are two nickle processes, electrolytic
and electroless. Once you get your parts absolutely clean, electroless
nickle plating is about as hard as boiling an egg.

Plating onto zinc, "white metal" or aluminum requires special steps.
It can be done but I don't do it. Caswell does offer materials to do
this, as in plating die-cast white-metal auto trim parts with chrome
or nickel.

Caswell also offers chrome, but I don't mess with that either. Chromic
acid is nasty stuff that produces toxic fumes, while the chemicals I
use are quite benign.

www.caswellplating.com

How difficult is the zinc plating, Don?

It's very easy and un-fussy. I think it's almost easier than painting
for small objects and projects. The work must be clean and if you
want bright zinc then you need to add a few ml of brightener if the
bath hasn't been used for a while. My zinc juice is in a covered
5-gallon bucket and it has been in use for several years. Figure
about 30 mA per square inch of workpiece. Zinc throws quite well so
orientation in the bucket isn't at all critical.

I often chromate the zinc because it's easy (just a dip) and it
significantly enhances resistance to mild acids like fingerprints and
acid rain.

On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 11:32:19 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:49:51 -0500, Wild_Bill wrote:

I'm wondering what plating materials can be applied to polished cast
aluminum parts, and how difficult the process would be, such as
unobtainable chemicals or other problems.

It dawned on me that I've seen chrome plated alternators and other
aluminum dress-up parts for cars, but never really paid that much
attention to them. I've seen many applications where a flash-thin chrome
plating finish peels off, and thicker, apparently poorly done or poorly
prepared plating that peels, forming razor-sharp cutting edges (on hand
tools, BTW).

I have an old Dumore 1/3 HP universal electric motor (approx. 3.5" dia.)
that has a lustrous-silver appearance, and I've been wondering what the
plating might be.
The plating is old, I suspect 1950s or maybe as old as the 1940s, and
doesn't look like new or old chrome generally does, instead, it's
slightly dull (like myself) with a greyish and yellowish cast to it.
This finish hasn't been cleaned any time in recent years, which looks
better, to me anyway.

There is an area where some of the plating has been ground away
(probably to remove an engraving) where a sub-layer looks like copper.

The bare base metal looks like oxidized aluminum, and it's non magnetic,
so I assume it's cast aluminum, based on the unusual shape (motor end
bells with various features such as bearing bosses and small oil ports
with reserviors).
Unlike most other electrical gear, I didn't disassemble this to see what
it's like inside (only beause it didn't appear to have been tampered
with).

I don't have any desire to restore the plated part, I just thought it to
be a bit unusual for aluminum to be plated on a utility tool-type part,
when just polishing the aluminum would have provided a good appearance,
at least while the motor was new.
It appears to have been polished prior to plating, but plating generally
outlasts paint or other coatings.

The plating may have been a "pride in our name" and/or a better quality
than our competitors' products appearance-comparison issue, in that
bright plating would appear to be a much better grade of finish than
wrinkle paint, I suppose.

My understanding, from one of the mechanical engineers at one of my
clients, is that copper is sort of the universal primer of metal plating
-- it'll stick to most anything, and most anything will stick to it.

I'd never heard of a flash of nickel under the copper to plate steel,
though.

Acid copper doesn't stick to steel but it does to a nickel flash.

On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 13:17:17 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:49:51 -0500, Wild_Bill wrote:

I'm wondering what plating materials can be applied to polished cast
aluminum parts, and how difficult the process would be, such as
unobtainable chemicals or other problems.

It dawned on me that I've seen chrome plated alternators and other
aluminum dress-up parts for cars, but never really paid that much
attention to them. I've seen many applications where a flash-thin chrome
plating finish peels off, and thicker, apparently poorly done or poorly
prepared plating that peels, forming razor-sharp cutting edges (on hand
tools, BTW).

I have an old Dumore 1/3 HP universal electric motor (approx. 3.5" dia.)
that has a lustrous-silver appearance, and I've been wondering what the
plating might be.
The plating is old, I suspect 1950s or maybe as old as the 1940s, and
doesn't look like new or old chrome generally does, instead, it's
slightly dull (like myself) with a greyish and yellowish cast to it.
This finish hasn't been cleaned any time in recent years, which looks
better, to me anyway.

There is an area where some of the plating has been ground away
(probably to remove an engraving) where a sub-layer looks like copper.

The bare base metal looks like oxidized aluminum, and it's non magnetic,
so I assume it's cast aluminum, based on the unusual shape (motor end
bells with various features such as bearing bosses and small oil ports
with reserviors).
Unlike most other electrical gear, I didn't disassemble this to see what
it's like inside (only beause it didn't appear to have been tampered
with).

I don't have any desire to restore the plated part, I just thought it to
be a bit unusual for aluminum to be plated on a utility tool-type part,
when just polishing the aluminum would have provided a good appearance,
at least while the motor was new.
It appears to have been polished prior to plating, but plating generally
outlasts paint or other coatings.

The plating may have been a "pride in our name" and/or a better quality
than our competitors' products appearance-comparison issue, in that
bright plating would appear to be a much better grade of finish than
wrinkle paint, I suppose.

My understanding, from one of the mechanical engineers at one of my
clients, is that copper is sort of the universal primer of metal plating
-- it'll stick to most anything, and most anything will stick to it.

I'd never heard of a flash of nickel under the copper to plate steel,
though.

"It is in most cases still essential to deposit a thin initial layer of
copper from a cyanide colution onto both steel and zinc alloy diecastings
for reasons already discussed, prior to their being acid copper plated.
Alternatively, a thin initial nickel layer deposited from any standard bath
is also quite satisfactory on ferrous substrates. In both cases, the thin
initial layer is often called a 'strike plate'. (_Nickel and Chromium
Plating_)

Punctuation is per the original -- in other words, this is a British book.
g In American parlance, this initial layer is called a "strike layer." If
you Google [nickel "strike layer"] you'll see that nickel is used for the
strike on many other metals as well, often under a copper leveling layer,
which is then topped with nickel, and then chromium. But cyanide-based
copper can also used for strike layers. The leveling layer is sometimes
electroless, but more commonly it's copper plated from an acid bath, rather
than a cyanide bath.

Top-quality chrome plating, therefore, actually is a four-layer process,
even if the first two layers are different methods of plating copper. My
limited understanding is that nickel is used for the flash more often than
copper in high-volume operations. It's done that way where durability is
important and they don't want to use excessively thick layers of plating.

Caswell offers an alkaline copper (no cyanide) that works well as a
flash or strike layer.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 13:26:53 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:36:15 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Thanks again, Ed. Would you know whether nickel is significantly less
dangerous, easier or cheaper to apply to small parts on a hobby-level
scale?

I kinda suspect that both would involve about the same aspects and
safety
issues.

The only source of nickel I know of presently, would be rods for
electric
welding cast iron, but I'm sure there would be sources of the right
alloy
to
use for plating.

I think it's DoN that regularly applies electroplating to some of his
small
machined parts, so maybe there will be other comments regarding home
shop
plating.

Don, not DoN. I plate with zinc, tin, copper and nickle using
materials from Caswell. There are two nickle processes, electrolytic
and electroless. Once you get your parts absolutely clean, electroless
nickle plating is about as hard as boiling an egg.

Plating onto zinc, "white metal" or aluminum requires special steps.
It can be done but I don't do it. Caswell does offer materials to do
this, as in plating die-cast white-metal auto trim parts with chrome
or nickel.

Caswell also offers chrome, but I don't mess with that either. Chromic
acid is nasty stuff that produces toxic fumes, while the chemicals I
use are quite benign.

www.caswellplating.com

How difficult is the zinc plating, Don?

It's very easy and un-fussy. I think it's almost easier than painting
for small objects and projects. The work must be clean and if you
want bright zinc then you need to add a few ml of brightener if the
bath hasn't been used for a while. My zinc juice is in a covered
5-gallon bucket and it has been in use for several years. Figure
about 30 mA per square inch of workpiece. Zinc throws quite well so
orientation in the bucket isn't at all critical.

I often chromate the zinc because it's easy (just a dip) and it
significantly enhances resistance to mild acids like fingerprints and
acid rain.

Well, that sounds like it's worth looking into. Somebody once gave me the
impression that it was tricky and much more difficult than nickel.

--
Ed Huntress

"Stupendous Man" wrote in message
...
The chrome plating process is done in three steps, after polishing.
1st, a copper plate. This can be done thin, or heavy and repeatedly to use
as a filler to sand out defects on old or pitted parts.
2nd, a nickle plate for the color. Nickle is soft and easy to scratch, but
this is was the final finish until sometime in the mid 30's.
3rd, chrome has been described as a "hard clear coat" over the nickle,
giving a brighter and more durable finish.
This is where the redundant phrase "triple plated" originates.
This process can be applied to nearly anything, leather baby shoes, wax
forms, etc, if care is taken to avoid high temps in the tank.
I find that aluminum tends to peel after a few years outside or on an
engine, so prefer to polish it.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty




Was Nickle plating until after WW2. The 1940-42 cars were nickel plated on
the shiny parts, and not chrome. the 42's all went to the military and were
painted over the shiny parts.

Was Nickle plating until after WW2. The 1940-42 cars were nickel plated
on
the shiny parts, and not chrome. the 42's all went to the military and
were painted over the shiny parts.

According to the Antique Automobile Club of America judging standards,
Oldsmobile started using chrome plating in 1925, the rest followed suit in
1928. I have heard of chrome plating as early as 1848 for jewelry, but it
had problems.
My 39 and 40 Grahams have a lot of Stainless Steel trim and chromed white
metal.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Thanks Roger, I was having a difficult time remembering what the company
name was.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...
DIY metal plating kits are sold he

http://www.caswellplating.com/

Some is a lot easier than others, but you can even do real chrome at home.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube,
then
they come up with this striped stuff.


"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
Thanks again, Ed. Would you know whether nickel is significantly less
dangerous, easier or cheaper to apply to small parts on a hobby-level
scale?

I kinda suspect that both would involve about the same aspects and safety
issues.

The only source of nickel I know of presently, would be rods for electric
welding cast iron, but I'm sure there would be sources of the right alloy
to
use for plating.

I think it's DoN that regularly applies electroplating to some of his
small
machined parts, so maybe there will be other comments regarding home shop
plating.

--
WB
.........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...


'Sounds like nickel. That was a common final plating until the '50s,
when
they started putting flash chrome on top of it for everything.


There is an area where some of the plating has been ground away
(probably
to remove an engraving) where a sub-layer looks like copper.

It probably is. Copper was used for leveling, but also to get a better
grip. A typical first-class chrome plating job on steel is, first, a
very
thin flash coating of nickel (it promotes adhesion); copper plating to
level the surface; a regular nickel plating on top of that; and chrome
plating, often quite thin, on top of the whole works.



Nickel was stylish and implied quality in those days.


The plating may have been a "pride in our name" and/or a better
quality
than our competitors' products appearance-comparison issue, in that
bright plating would appear to be a much better grade of finish than
wrinkle paint, I suppose.

You probably suppose right.

--
Ed Huntress

Yep, we got the Don mistaken-identity-error (CRS) squared away DoN. Thanks
again for the additional info.
I could see the practical usefulness of tin and nickel, for a lot of items.
I'm not too impressed by chrome, even if it was simple and easy.

As far as attractiveness of flashy or cool-looking appearances, colors in
anodizing tend to be more impressive to me.

At the other end of the spectrum, I find black oxides, patinas and oxidation
more attractive on lots of items.
I think the rich, dark colors of dull-looking brass (dark brown) and copper
(almost black) more attractive than highly polished and coated with a
protective clear finish.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:36:15 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Thanks again, Ed. Would you know whether nickel is significantly less
dangerous, easier or cheaper to apply to small parts on a hobby-level
scale?

I kinda suspect that both would involve about the same aspects and safety
issues.

The only source of nickel I know of presently, would be rods for electric
welding cast iron, but I'm sure there would be sources of the right alloy
to
use for plating.

I think it's DoN that regularly applies electroplating to some of his
small
machined parts, so maybe there will be other comments regarding home shop
plating.

Don, not DoN. I plate with zinc, tin, copper and nickle using
materials from Caswell. There are two nickle processes, electrolytic
and electroless. Once you get your parts absolutely clean, electroless
nickle plating is about as hard as boiling an egg.

Plating onto zinc, "white metal" or aluminum requires special steps.
It can be done but I don't do it. Caswell does offer materials to do
this, as in plating die-cast white-metal auto trim parts with chrome
or nickel.

Caswell also offers chrome, but I don't mess with that either. Chromic
acid is nasty stuff that produces toxic fumes, while the chemicals I
use are quite benign.

www.caswellplating.com

On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 23:26:27 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:



Acid copper doesn't stick to steel but it does to a nickel flash.


Discovered that when using a lash up to try to build up an arbour that I'd
made a thou undersized last year... Ended up with a still-undersized arbour
and a nice piece of copper foil :-(


Mark Rand
RTFM

To correct an error that may confuse someone, some day.. the 3.5" diameter
Dumore motor is actually 1/30 HP, and not 1/3 HP as stated earlier.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...

I have an old Dumore 1/3 HP universal electric motor (approx. 3.5" dia.)
that has a lustrous-silver appearance, and I've been wondering what the
plating might be.