IanM wrote:

'This page is no longer available'

I can see the link from this side of the pond.

Wes

can one of you guys who knows stuff look at this valve and tell me why the
threads for the lateral movement of the stem are on the outside of the valve
body and the inside of the aluminum handle, instead of the inside of the
valve body and the stem as with every other valve I've ever seen? There
must be some reason. link to inactive auction is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300292252976

thanks - it's been bugging me for a few weeks now - I've never seen this
arrangement - I guess it keeps you from breaking the stem off from over
torque - is that the reason?



--
Bill
www.wbnoble.com

Bill Noble wrote:
can one of you guys who knows stuff look at this valve and tell me why the
threads for the lateral movement of the stem are on the outside of the valve
body and the inside of the aluminum handle, instead of the inside of the
valve body and the stem as with every other valve I've ever seen? There
must be some reason. link to inactive auction is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300292252976

thanks - it's been bugging me for a few weeks now - I've never seen this
arrangement - I guess it keeps you from breaking the stem off from over
torque - is that the reason?

'This page is no longer available'

Got a piccy you can stick in the dropbox?



--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:

"IanM" wrote in message
...
Bill Noble wrote:
can one of you guys who knows stuff look at this valve and tell me why
the
threads for the lateral movement of the stem are on the outside of the
valve
body and the inside of the aluminum handle, instead of the inside of the
valve body and the stem as with every other valve I've ever seen? There
must be some reason. link to inactive auction is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300292252976

thanks - it's been bugging me for a few weeks now - I've never seen this
arrangement - I guess it keeps you from breaking the stem off from over
torque - is that the reason?

'This page is no longer available'

Got a piccy you can stick in the dropbox?



the auction closed before I got around to askng the question - if you look
for completed auctions and use that item number (300292252976) you will get
it - I'm reluctant to take up space in the drop box for this question,
though of course I could - I have two of these valves, and except for the
way the handle is mounted, they seem to be normal high pressure valves. If
you still can't see it, let me know and I'll upload a photo.

Bill Noble wrote:
"IanM" wrote in message
...
Bill Noble wrote:
can one of you guys who knows stuff look at this valve and tell me why
the
threads for the lateral movement of the stem are on the outside of the
valve
body and the inside of the aluminum handle, instead of the inside of the
valve body and the stem as with every other valve I've ever seen? There
must be some reason. link to inactive auction is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300292252976

thanks - it's been bugging me for a few weeks now - I've never seen this
arrangement - I guess it keeps you from breaking the stem off from over
torque - is that the reason?
'This page is no longer available'

Got a piccy you can stick in the dropbox?



the auction closed before I got around to askng the question - if you look
for completed auctions and use that item number (300292252976) you will get
it - I'm reluctant to take up space in the drop box for this question,
though of course I could - I have two of these valves, and except for the
way the handle is mounted, they seem to be normal high pressure valves. If
you still can't see it, let me know and I'll upload a photo.


Just curiosity on my part, I doubt I'll have any answers for you. If
you choose to upload, go ahead or use a photo site if you don't want to
clutter the box.

ebay still gives 'no longer available' and no joy searching the item
number here. It may be a logged in user thing as I dont have an account
with them.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:

"Bill Noble" wrote: (clip) instead of the inside of the
valve body and the stem as with every other valve I've ever seen? There
must be some reason. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It could be that the designer is using the heavy valve handle on the outside
if the valve to add strength. But, what puzzles me as well is that the
valve handle appears to double as a packing nut. But that means that you
can't tighten it and leave it to eliminate leakage around the stem. Every
time you open the valve, you loosen the "packing nut."

On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:20:32 -0800, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Bill Noble" wrote: (clip) instead of the inside of the
valve body and the stem as with every other valve I've ever seen? There
must be some reason. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It could be that the designer is using the heavy valve handle on the outside
if the valve to add strength. But, what puzzles me as well is that the
valve handle appears to double as a packing nut. But that means that you
can't tighten it and leave it to eliminate leakage around the stem. Every
time you open the valve, you loosen the "packing nut."

I'm guessing different seals than packing for 3000 psi. Even a plain
o-ring would be marginal, would probably be chevron seals or o-ring
with backer.

Like Leo said, bigger threads equals more strength, plus better
protection from dirt in hydraulic service, possibly a non-rotating
stem as well, which would help prevent wear on seals and seat.

Pete Keillor

On 2009-02-15, Bill Noble wrote:
can one of you guys who knows stuff look at this valve and tell me why the
threads for the lateral movement of the stem are on the outside of the valve
body and the inside of the aluminum handle, instead of the inside of the
valve body and the stem as with every other valve I've ever seen? There
must be some reason. link to inactive auction is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300292252976

thanks - it's been bugging me for a few weeks now - I've never seen this
arrangement - I guess it keeps you from breaking the stem off from over
torque - is that the reason?

Well ... I've seen similar ones by NuPro (make nuclear control
equipment, I think) and the handle pressed on a metal bellows which
moved the needle valve. The theory is that there is no leak, because
there is no gland to wear.

Even if this one does not have the bellows construction, I could
still see benefits from this design. If it *does* leak (and Hydraulic
equipment runs at least up to 10,000 PSI, such as most of the EnerPac
stuff), you have something to contain the leak stream, so it will not
cut to (or past) the bone of the hand reaching to turn it off.

The red anodizing does suggest that it controls something with a
hazard related to it.

I'll be interested to see what others say about it.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2009-02-15, IanM wrote:
Bill Noble wrote:
can one of you guys who knows stuff look at this valve and tell me why the
threads for the lateral movement of the stem are on the outside of the valve
body and the inside of the aluminum handle, instead of the inside of the
valve body and the stem as with every other valve I've ever seen? There
must be some reason. link to inactive auction is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300292252976

thanks - it's been bugging me for a few weeks now - I've never seen this
arrangement - I guess it keeps you from breaking the stem off from over
torque - is that the reason?

'This page is no longer available'

Got a piccy you can stick in the dropbox?

Interesting. I had no problem using the above URL.

Try just trimming off the auction number, (300292252976) and
accessing it by number from the search page.

Hmm ... is it possible that in a cut-and-paste you lost the last
digit of the auction number (which as the end).

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2009-02-15, IanM wrote:
Bill Noble wrote:
"IanM" wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

Got a piccy you can stick in the dropbox?



the auction closed before I got around to askng the question - if you look
for completed auctions and use that item number (300292252976) you will get

It should still be there, unless you removed the image from
a private web site (in which case you probably would have given the URL
to the private site instead). They kill off auctions some number of
weeks or months after they close -- but not this quickly.

it - I'm reluctant to take up space in the drop box for this question,
though of course I could - I have two of these valves, and except for the
way the handle is mounted, they seem to be normal high pressure valves. If
you still can't see it, let me know and I'll upload a photo.


Just curiosity on my part, I doubt I'll have any answers for you. If
you choose to upload, go ahead or use a photo site if you don't want to
clutter the box.

ebay still gives 'no longer available' and no joy searching the item
number here. It may be a logged in user thing as I dont have an account
with them.

I don't have an account either. And I see it without problems.

I wonder whether it is a different behavior for UK sites? (I
figured the UK from the term "piccy" before even looking at your .sig :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2009-02-15, IanM wrote:
Bill Noble wrote:
"IanM" wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

Got a piccy you can stick in the dropbox?

snip
I don't have an account either. And I see it without problems.

I wonder whether it is a different behavior for UK sites? (I
figured the UK from the term "piccy" before even looking at your .sig :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

Well today its working and nothing changed this end.
I wonder if EBay use distributed servers?

I think the other posters have the valve design figured out.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2009-02-15, Bill Noble wrote:
can one of you guys who knows stuff look at this valve and tell me why
the
threads for the lateral movement of the stem are on the outside of the
valve
body and the inside of the aluminum handle, instead of the inside of the
valve body and the stem as with every other valve I've ever seen? There
must be some reason. link to inactive auction is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300292252976

thanks - it's been bugging me for a few weeks now - I've never seen this
arrangement - I guess it keeps you from breaking the stem off from over
torque - is that the reason?

Well ... I've seen similar ones by NuPro (make nuclear control
equipment, I think) and the handle pressed on a metal bellows which
moved the needle valve. The theory is that there is no leak, because
there is no gland to wear.

Even if this one does not have the bellows construction, I could
still see benefits from this design. If it *does* leak (and Hydraulic
equipment runs at least up to 10,000 PSI, such as most of the EnerPac
stuff), you have something to contain the leak stream, so it will not
cut to (or past) the bone of the hand reaching to turn it off.

The red anodizing does suggest that it controls something with a
hazard related to it.

I'll be interested to see what others say about it.

Enjoy,
DoN.

there are no bellows - the handle presses on a stainless shaft, there is a
steel bushing that is not part of the valve body, through which the
stainless shaft passes (loose fit) - I didn't see any packing nor any way to
retain the packing. The internal pressure must open the valve, the handle
only presses it closed, nothing pulls it open.

It came off of a hydraulic test panel (image he
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300286432875) -
-- note that this image is also another closed ebay auction, a few weeks
older - so if you couldn't see the first image, you won't be able to see
this one either. The gauge, two stainless valves, a pressure regulator, and
the 4-way valve (wired as a reversing valve) all sold, but the other stuff
didn't - ithe residue is sitting in my "pile of possibly useful stuff to put
away" box right now.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:40:50 -0800, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



there are no bellows - the handle presses on a stainless shaft, there is a
steel bushing that is not part of the valve body, through which the
stainless shaft passes (loose fit) - I didn't see any packing nor any way to
retain the packing. The internal pressure must open the valve, the handle
only presses it closed, nothing pulls it open.


It's not that outrageous. Thermostatic heating radiator valve bodies and
solenoid valve bodies frequently have a similar construction, except that they
have a return spring to close the valve.


Mark Rand
RTFM

On 2009-02-16, Mark Rand wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:40:50 -0800, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



there are no bellows - the handle presses on a stainless shaft, there is a
steel bushing that is not part of the valve body, through which the
stainless shaft passes (loose fit) - I didn't see any packing nor any way to
retain the packing. The internal pressure must open the valve, the handle
only presses it closed, nothing pulls it open.


It's not that outrageous. Thermostatic heating radiator valve bodies and
solenoid valve bodies frequently have a similar construction, except that they
have a return spring to close the valve.

And the bellows could well be pointed into the housing, with the
steel bushing only for a guide. The bellows could well also be a spring
which holds the valve either open, or closed, depending on design.

And another look at the saved photo shows a relief notch to
direct any high-pressure leakage at the panel instead of towards the
operator's hand.

And that is one ugly panel that it came from.

I note that the gauge only goes up to 500 PSI (or is it
calibrated in some metric pressure unit instead?

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2009-02-16, Mark Rand wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:40:50 -0800, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



there are no bellows - the handle presses on a stainless shaft, there is
a
steel bushing that is not part of the valve body, through which the
stainless shaft passes (loose fit) - I didn't see any packing nor any way
to
retain the packing. The internal pressure must open the valve, the
handle
only presses it closed, nothing pulls it open.


It's not that outrageous. Thermostatic heating radiator valve bodies and
solenoid valve bodies frequently have a similar construction, except that
they
have a return spring to close the valve.

And the bellows could well be pointed into the housing, with the
steel bushing only for a guide. The bellows could well also be a spring
which holds the valve either open, or closed, depending on design.

And another look at the saved photo shows a relief notch to
direct any high-pressure leakage at the panel instead of towards the
operator's hand.

And that is one ugly panel that it came from.

I note that the gauge only goes up to 500 PSI (or is it
calibrated in some metric pressure unit instead?

Enjoy,
DoN.

the gauge did only go to 500 PSI - some valves were clearly marked 3,000
psi, some were not marked. the notch you see is there so you can remove a
clip ring that goes into the very end of the handle so you can't unscrew it
by opening it too far - to get the valve off the panel, I had to remove that
ring and then unscrew the handle.

Would it be of general interest if I took one of the valves apart and took
photos and put the photo(s) in the drop box ???

On 2009-02-17, Bill Noble wrote:

[ ... ]

And the bellows could well be pointed into the housing, with the
steel bushing only for a guide. The bellows could well also be a spring
which holds the valve either open, or closed, depending on design.

And another look at the saved photo shows a relief notch to
direct any high-pressure leakage at the panel instead of towards the
operator's hand.

[ ... ]

the gauge did only go to 500 PSI - some valves were clearly marked 3,000
psi, some were not marked.

O.K. Relatively low pressure hydraulics then, I'm working with
some stuff which goes to 10,000 PSI, and IIRC, EnerPac makes a line
which goes to 30,000 PSI.

the notch you see is there so you can remove a
clip ring that goes into the very end of the handle so you can't unscrew it
by opening it too far - to get the valve off the panel, I had to remove that
ring and then unscrew the handle.

O.K.

Would it be of general interest if I took one of the valves apart and took
photos and put the photo(s) in the drop box ???

I would be interested -- if you did not have to damage it to do
so. I'll sit back and see if anyone else is interested. If there is
only me, don't bother, I can live with speculation. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I would be interested -- if you did not have to damage it to do
so. I'll sit back and see if anyone else is interested. If there is
only me, don't bother, I can live with speculation. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Don - I tried to email you some pictures of the valve, and I get a delivery
status (failure) notification - perhaps if you were to email me I could
reply - the email I used matches the above and it is the same as the one on
your web site.

I'm at william _b_ Noble at msn (dotcom of course) --- maybe you
reject messages from msn?

On 2009-02-18, Bill Noble wrote:

I would be interested -- if you did not have to damage it to do
so. I'll sit back and see if anyone else is interested. If there is
only me, don't bother, I can live with speculation. :-)

[ ... ]

Don - I tried to email you some pictures of the valve, and I get a delivery
status (failure) notification - perhaps if you were to email me I could
reply - the email I used matches the above and it is the same as the one on
your web site.

The e-mail address is valid -- but you will *always* fail
sending me attachments. The e-mail server is configured to reject
anything larger than 30K *total* size -- headers, body, attachment, etc.

This is set up this way to keep viruses out of a couple of small
mailing lists which I host -- since I can't run a virus scanner on
e-mails on the way through. They won't hurt my system, but could hurt
others on the lists who run Windows.

That is why I suggested that if I were the only one interested,
you should skip it, because there is no sense using the dropbox for only
a single individual.

I'm at william _b_ Noble at msn (dotcom of course) --- maybe you
reject messages from msn?

No -- I reject *all* messages over 30K in size, before I can
even tell who they are from, so there is no way to set up a special
arrangement for a single individual.

Send me a simple plain-text e-mail, and it will reach me.

Send me an e-mail in HTML, and the spam filters will flag it as
spam, and I might spot it or might not.

Send me with a large attachment (probably 24K or so before the
inflation done by the mime software making a binary into something which
will pass through e-mail channels without a problem, and you will exceed
the 30K size and never reach me.

I guess that I should have mentioned this before, but I thought
that the "only if others are interested" would mean that it would wind
up in the dropbox where I could download it.

Sorry,
DoN.


--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---