Maybe someone here in RCM has seen or used this lathe accessory.

I saw one of these a while ago on eBay, and was unable to locate any info
about it then, and when I spotted another one with the accessories and
operating instructions recently, with only minutes left in the auction, I
bid on it kind of impulsively just because I wanted to see it up close.

All I've been able to locate by Goog searches have been patent website
references, or results for a belt device bt Dynabrade.

http://www.kwagmire.com/shop/superfi...rfinisher.html

I suspect that this may have been a short-lived amazing new product that
never really caught on, maybe from the '80s or '90s.
There is no motor, so it may have been intended as a cheaper alternative to
a toolpost grinder. If you've priced new toolpost grinders, you know how
much they can cost, but I don't know how much this lathe kit sold for.

It resembles the old style of pivoting knurling accessory which had two
knurls arranged vertically in a pivoting head.

It's very similar to that style, but with grinding (or polishing) wheels in
the head assembly. The wheels are geared to each other, and friction against
the rotating workpiece drives the wheels. Instead of the wheels just
rotating with the workpiece like set of knurls would, the gears drive the
grinding wheels in opposite directions.

If anyone knows anything about these Superfinishers, I'd enjoy hearing about
them.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:55:52 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:


If anyone knows anything about these Superfinishers, I'd enjoy hearing about
them.


Interesting device, don't know anything about them but could see applications
where one just wants to take off a few tenths and doesn't want the hassle of
mounting the toolpost grinder. Are the wheels geared to run at the same speed
or does the bottom wheel run faster than the driving wheel?


regards
Mark Rand
RTFM

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
Maybe someone here in RCM has seen or used this lathe accessory.

I saw one of these a while ago on eBay, and was unable to locate any info
about it then, and when I spotted another one with the accessories and
operating instructions recently, with only minutes left in the auction, I
bid on it kind of impulsively just because I wanted to see it up close.

All I've been able to locate by Goog searches have been patent website
references, or results for a belt device bt Dynabrade.

http://www.kwagmire.com/shop/superfi...rfinisher.html

I suspect that this may have been a short-lived amazing new product that
never really caught on, maybe from the '80s or '90s.
There is no motor, so it may have been intended as a cheaper alternative
to a toolpost grinder. If you've priced new toolpost grinders, you know
how much they can cost, but I don't know how much this lathe kit sold for.

It resembles the old style of pivoting knurling accessory which had two
knurls arranged vertically in a pivoting head.

It's very similar to that style, but with grinding (or polishing) wheels
in the head assembly. The wheels are geared to each other, and friction
against the rotating workpiece drives the wheels. Instead of the wheels
just rotating with the workpiece like set of knurls would, the gears
drive the grinding wheels in opposite directions.

If anyone knows anything about these Superfinishers, I'd enjoy hearing
about them.

--
WB
.........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

I don't recognize that one, but superfinishing and superpolishing were used
for high-end shaft applications a few decades ago. I don't know about now.

Those two terms have specific meanings, BTW, which relates to the way
pressure is applied to the work. I haven't tried to look them up but get
back to us if you don't find anything. I probably have descriptions in one
of my manufacturing process books.

--
Ed Huntress

It seems odd, but the lower grinding wheel turns at about half the speed of
the top wheel.
The gears are arranged (from top to bottom) 17, 32, 32, 36T. The wheel
shafts and the two intermediate gears are all turning on ball bearing
assemblies.

If the figures in the charts are correct, and I would expect that experience
would be a factor, it's claimed that .0001" removal or less can be attained
with the correct wheel grit and spindle and feed speeds.
Additionally, more stock can be removed with coarser wheels if needed.

I've never done any precision grinding on a lathe or other machines, and
taking just one ten-thousandth off of a diameter seems a bit astonishing to
me.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Mark Rand" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:55:52 -0500, "Wild_Bill"

wrote:


If anyone knows anything about these Superfinishers, I'd enjoy hearing
about
them.


Interesting device, don't know anything about them but could see
applications
where one just wants to take off a few tenths and doesn't want the hassle
of
mounting the toolpost grinder. Are the wheels geared to run at the same
speed
or does the bottom wheel run faster than the driving wheel?


regards
Mark Rand
RTFM

Yep, lots of terms for real professionals/tradesmen, Ed. For my purposes,
shiny means purty, but primarily smooth, and maybe straight.

I don't have a clue of how to attain a specific finish, but I could probably
sit and stare at one of those sample plates/gages for about an hour.

A machinist friend, not just a hobbiest like myself, has told me about
developing superpolishing techniques at Westinghouse decades ago, on big
parts for defense contracts.
A small technological edge could mean big contracts.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
Maybe someone here in RCM has seen or used this lathe accessory.

http://www.kwagmire.com/shop/superfi...rfinisher.html

I suspect that this may have been a short-lived amazing new product that
never really caught on, maybe from the '80s or '90s.
There is no motor, so it may have been intended as a cheaper alternative
to a toolpost grinder. If you've priced new toolpost grinders, you know
how much they can cost, but I don't know how much this lathe kit sold
for.

If anyone knows anything about these Superfinishers, I'd enjoy hearing
about them.



I don't recognize that one, but superfinishing and superpolishing were
used for high-end shaft applications a few decades ago. I don't know about
now.

Those two terms have specific meanings, BTW, which relates to the way
pressure is applied to the work. I haven't tried to look them up but get
back to us if you don't find anything. I probably have descriptions in one
of my manufacturing process books.

--
Ed Huntress

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
Yep, lots of terms for real professionals/tradesmen, Ed. For my purposes,
shiny means purty, but primarily smooth, and maybe straight.

I don't have a clue of how to attain a specific finish, but I could
probably sit and stare at one of those sample plates/gages for about an
hour.

A machinist friend, not just a hobbiest like myself, has told me about
developing superpolishing techniques at Westinghouse decades ago, on big
parts for defense contracts.
A small technological edge could mean big contracts.

--
WB

Something that you might find interesting, though, is that the techniques
actually can be applied in hobby work. I don't remember much about it but
superfinishers "float" the abrasive on the workpiece, so that only the high
points are touched. Although they don't produce a better finish than fine
grinding, they produce better cylindricity.

Superpolishing was (is?) a little different, although the basic principle is
the same: work on the high spots.

The terms have gotten a little corrupted over the years, but it was a big
deal back in the '50s, and superfinishing and superpolishing machines were
being used, as I said, for high-performance shaft work. That may be what
your friend was doing at Westinghouse. Turbine shafts were one of the key
applications.

In a way, they're a bit like cylindrical lapping, but they don't follow the
workpiece like lapping does. So they maintain whatever straightness and
concentricity the machine is capable of, unlike lapping. Lapping will give
you great cylindricity but it doesn't do anything to improve whatever
straightness and concentricity they start with.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:29:26 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:
snip
I've never done any precision grinding on a lathe or other machines, and
taking just one ten-thousandth off of a diameter seems a bit astonishing to
me.
--------
Super finishing is a relatively old process, developed I believe
by Chrysler in the late 20s or early 30s. It was mainly applied
to main and rod bearing journals. The intent is to take an
already smooth surface and knock off the peaks to get as much
bearing surface a possible, so 0.0001 or less was all that was
required/desired.

It is now called micro-honing in many cases
http://www.hmdoyal.com/products/carb...bonded/hsf.htm


still being done for race engines and other very high end
applications
http://www.xtremefinishing.com/
http://www.manmonthly.com.au/Article...ess/77588.aspx

air driven tool post units are still available from japan
http://www.toyo-at.co.jp/en/products...ishinghead.htm

Good luck with your new toys, and let the group know what you
make.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

BTW, Ed and others, I didn't mean to imply that this tool was either a
superfinisher, or a superpolisher by definition, it's actually just the
tradename that GBI called this particular tool.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...


Something that you might find interesting, though, is that the techniques
actually can be applied in hobby work. I don't remember much about it but
superfinishers "float" the abrasive on the workpiece, so that only the
high points are touched. Although they don't produce a better finish than
fine grinding, they produce better cylindricity.

Superpolishing was (is?) a little different, although the basic principle
is the same: work on the high spots.

The terms have gotten a little corrupted over the years, but it was a big
deal back in the '50s, and superfinishing and superpolishing machines were
being used, as I said, for high-performance shaft work. That may be what
your friend was doing at Westinghouse. Turbine shafts were one of the key
applications.

In a way, they're a bit like cylindrical lapping, but they don't follow
the workpiece like lapping does. So they maintain whatever straightness
and concentricity the machine is capable of, unlike lapping. Lapping will
give you great cylindricity but it doesn't do anything to improve whatever
straightness and concentricity they start with.

--
Ed Huntress

Thanks, George for the additional info and links.

My intentions are to post any other findings, and report any results to RCM
when I get around to using it.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


Copied from Google RCM response to:
Lathe Accy Grind Polish GBI Superfinisher Options
--------
Super finishing is a relatively old process, developed I believe
by Chrysler in the late 20s or early 30s. It was mainly applied
to main and rod bearing journals. The intent is to take an
already smooth surface and knock off the peaks to get as much
bearing surface a possible, so 0.0001 or less was all that was
required/desired.

It is now called micro-honing in many cases
http://www.hmdoyal.com/products/carb...bonded/hsf.htm


still being done for race engines and other very high end
applications
http://www.xtremefinishing.com/
http://www.manmonthly.com.au/Article...nishing-proces...


air driven tool post units are still available from japan
http://www.toyo-at.co.jp/en/products...ishinghead.htm


Good luck with your new toys, and let the group know what you
make.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
BTW, Ed and others, I didn't mean to imply that this tool was either a
superfinisher, or a superpolisher by definition, it's actually just the
tradename that GBI called this particular tool.

--
WB

Yeah, I realized that, which is why I took the time to relate some things
about superfinishers, so that newbies or people who aren't familiar with
less-well-known industrial machining processes wouldn't be confused by it.

I don't know how this particular device does its job, but it doesn't appear
to be a superfinisher by the recognized definition of the term.

--
Ed Huntress

.........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...


Something that you might find interesting, though, is that the techniques
actually can be applied in hobby work. I don't remember much about it but
superfinishers "float" the abrasive on the workpiece, so that only the
high points are touched. Although they don't produce a better finish than
fine grinding, they produce better cylindricity.

Superpolishing was (is?) a little different, although the basic principle
is the same: work on the high spots.

The terms have gotten a little corrupted over the years, but it was a big
deal back in the '50s, and superfinishing and superpolishing machines
were being used, as I said, for high-performance shaft work. That may be
what your friend was doing at Westinghouse. Turbine shafts were one of
the key applications.

In a way, they're a bit like cylindrical lapping, but they don't follow
the workpiece like lapping does. So they maintain whatever straightness
and concentricity the machine is capable of, unlike lapping. Lapping will
give you great cylindricity but it doesn't do anything to improve
whatever straightness and concentricity they start with.

--
Ed Huntress