http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=4227


"Yes We Can . . . Ban Guns"--Obama Announces Gun Ban Agenda Before The
Final Vote Count Is In

Friday, November 07, 2008


Senator Barack Obama's presidential campaign slogan, "the audacity of
hope," should have instead been "the audacity of deceit." After months
of telling the American people that he supports the Second Amendment,
and only hours after being declared the president-elect, the Obama
transition team website announced an agenda taken straight from the
anti-gun lobby--four initiatives designed to ban guns and drive
law-abiding firearm manufacturers and dealers out of business:

"Making the expired federal assault weapons ban permanent." Perhaps no
other firearm issue has been more dishonestly portrayed by gun
prohibitionists. Notwithstanding their predictions that the ban's
expiration in 2004 would bring about the end of civilization, for the
last four years the nation's murder rate has been lower than anytime
since the mid-1960s. Studies for Congress, the Congressional Research
Service, the National Institute of Justice, the National Academy of
Sciences, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have
found no evidence that gun prohibition or gun control reduces crime.
Guns that were affected by the ban are used in only a tiny fraction of
violent crime-about 35 times as many people are murdered without any
sort of firearm (knives, bare hands, etc.), as with "assault weapons."
Obama says that "assault weapons" are machine guns that "belong on
foreign battlefields," but that is a lie; the guns are only
semi-automatic, and they are not used by a military force anywhere on
the planet.

"Repeal the Tiahrt Amendment." The amendment--endorsed by the
Fraternal Order of Police--prohibits the release of federal firearm
tracing information to anyone other than a law enforcement agency
conducting a bona fide criminal investigation. Anti-gun activists
oppose the restriction, because it prevents them from obtaining
tracing information and using it in frivolous lawsuits against
law-abiding firearm manufacturers. Their lawsuits seek to obtain huge
financial judgments against firearm manufacturers when a criminal uses
a gun to inflict harm, even though the manufacturers have complied
with all applicable laws.

"Closing the gun show loophole." There is no "loophole." Under federal
law, a firearm dealer must conduct a background check on anyone to
whom he sells a gun, regardless of where the sale takes place. A
person who is not a dealer may sell a gun from his personal collection
without conducting a check. Gun prohibitionists claim that many
criminals obtain guns from gun shows, though the most recent federal
survey of convicted felons put the figure at only 0.7 percent. They
also claim that non-dealers should be required to conduct checks when
selling guns at shows, but the legislation they support goes far
beyond imposing that lone requirement. In fact, anti-gun members of
Congress voted against that limited measure, holding out for a broader
bill intended to drive shows out of business.
"Making guns in this country childproof." "Childproof" is a codeword
for a variety of schemes designed to prevent the sale of firearms by
imposing impossible or highly expensive design requirements, such as
biometric shooter-identification systems. While no one opposes keeping
children safe, the fact is that accidental firearm-related deaths
among children have decreased 86 percent since 1975, even as the
numbers of children and guns have risen dramatically. Today, the
chances of a child being killed in a firearm accident are less than
one in a million.
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Gunner Asch wrote:


http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=4227


Interesting, the obama link didn't resolve so I checked the google cache.

http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt
Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun
trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve
gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense
measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away
from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun
show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the
expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign
battlefields and not on our streets.


Busted. Seems like Obama took his link down after the NraILA posted their message.

And just a few moments ago, I was being magnanimous in defeat.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Gunner Asch wrote:


http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=4227


Interesting, the obama link didn't resolve so I checked the google cache.

http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal
the Tiahrt
Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access
important gun
trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools
they need to solve
gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor
commonsense
measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while
keeping guns away
from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support
closing the gun
show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also
support making the
expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on
foreign
battlefields and not on our streets.


Busted. Seems like Obama took his link down after the NraILA posted their
message.

And just a few moments ago, I was being magnanimous in defeat.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Maybe they're rearranging the furnishings. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 08 Nov 2008 20:17:27 -0500, Wes wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:


http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=4227


Interesting, the obama link didn't resolve so I checked the google cache.

http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt
Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun
trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve
gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense
measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away
from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun
show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the
expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign
battlefields and not on our streets.


Busted. Seems like Obama took his link down after the NraILA posted their message.

And just a few moments ago, I was being magnanimous in defeat.

Wes


As Ive stated....arms and ammo sales are WAY the **** up, as are
purchases of magazines, "magazine repair kits" and so forth.

Look for a reempowerment of the BATF and more massacres by them in
coming years, followed by a tremendious backlash.

One should remember several thousand people were enroute, and many
other thousands were watching the Ruby Ridge standoff....if such a
thing occures again..memories are very long in the gun culture...dont
expect survivors from the ABC agencies.

Shrug...works for me.

Gunner

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Gunner Asch wrote:


As Ive stated....arms and ammo sales are WAY the **** up, as are
purchases of magazines, "magazine repair kits" and so forth.

Look for a reempowerment of the BATF and more massacres by them in
coming years, followed by a tremendious backlash.

One should remember several thousand people were enroute, and many
other thousands were watching the Ruby Ridge standoff....if such a
thing occures again..memories are very long in the gun culture...dont
expect survivors from the ABC agencies.

Shrug...works for me.

Gunner


We went up north to sail on a nice big lake this weekend.

We dropped in at a local Army Navy Surpls store (a REAL one - not a
commercial sporting stuff store claiming to be a mil surplus) had .308
ACP for $10 a box (50!).

I bought all they had since the last box I bought in Dallas (of 30!)
was over $20.

No complaints here.

--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

cavelamb himself wrote:

We dropped in at a local Army Navy Surpls store (a REAL one - not a
commercial sporting stuff store claiming to be a mil surplus) had .308
ACP for $10 a box (50!).

..308 ACP?

Wes wrote:
cavelamb himself wrote:


We dropped in at a local Army Navy Surpls store (a REAL one - not a
commercial sporting stuff store claiming to be a mil surplus) had .308
ACP for $10 a box (50!).


.308 ACP?

oooooooooooooOOOOH, SOrRY THErE, wES.
jUST WASHED MY hands and can';t DO a thinG With tHem.


..380 fits a lot better.


--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 11:36:36 -0800, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2008 20:17:27 -0500, Wes wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:


http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=4227


Interesting, the obama link didn't resolve so I checked the google cache.

http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt
Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun
trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve
gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense
measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away
from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun
show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the
expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign
battlefields and not on our streets.


Busted. Seems like Obama took his link down after the NraILA posted their message.

And just a few moments ago, I was being magnanimous in defeat.

Wes


As Ive stated....arms and ammo sales are WAY the **** up, as are
purchases of magazines, "magazine repair kits" and so forth.

Look for a reempowerment of the BATF and more massacres by them in
coming years, followed by a tremendious backlash.

I'm just hoping that nobody picks off BamBam during his time in D.C.
That'd set off a black/white race war worse than the Civil War.
And if the Hispanics joined them against us...ho boy!


One should remember several thousand people were enroute, and many
other thousands were watching the Ruby Ridge standoff....if such a
thing occures again..memories are very long in the gun culture...dont
expect survivors from the ABC agencies.

Yes, there might be a few unintended consequences for any of the ABC'c
harsher actions this time around, mightn't there?


Shrug...works for me.

And how.

--
Never lose sight of this important truth, that no one can be truly
great until he has gained a knowledge of himself, a knowledge which
can only be acquired by occasional retirement.
-- Johann Georg von Zimmermann

We dropped in at a local Army Navy Surpls store (a REAL one - not a
commercial sporting stuff store claiming to be a mil surplus) had .308
ACP for $10 a box (50!).


.308 ACP?

oooooooooooooOOOOH, SOrRY THErE, wES.
jUST WASHED MY hands and can';t DO a thinG With tHem.


.380 fits a lot better.


Maybe, but that's sure a wimpy cartridge. Borderline for self defense at
best.

Hawke

We dropped in at a local Army Navy Surpls store (a REAL one - not a
commercial sporting stuff store claiming to be a mil surplus) had .308
ACP for $10 a box (50!).


.308 ACP?

oooooooooooooOOOOH, SOrRY THErE, wES.
jUST WASHED MY hands and can';t DO a thinG With tHem.


.380 fits a lot better.


Maybe, but that's sure a wimpy cartridge. Borderline for self defense at
best.

Hawke

We dropped in at a local Army Navy Surpls store (a REAL one - not a
commercial sporting stuff store claiming to be a mil surplus) had .308
ACP for $10 a box (50!).


.308 ACP?

oooooooooooooOOOOH, SOrRY THErE, wES.
jUST WASHED MY hands and can';t DO a thinG With tHem.


.380 fits a lot better.


Maybe, but that's sure a wimpy cartridge. Borderline for self defense at
best.

Hawke

On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:41:56 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Look for a reempowerment of the BATF and more massacres by them in
coming years, followed by a tremendious backlash.

I'm just hoping that nobody picks off BamBam during his time in D.C.
That'd set off a black/white race war worse than the Civil War.
And if the Hispanics joined them against us...ho boy!

The hispanics hate the blacks, and the blacks hate the hispanics.
They are competing for the same jobs, the same neighborhoods and the
same welfare checks.

We actually have ethnic cleansing going on in Los Angeles. Hispanics
are moving into traditionally black neighborhoods, killing blacks and
forcing the rest out so they can move in their breatheren.

http://www.google.com/search?q=ethnic+cleansing+los+angeles&btnG=Search& hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=V99&sa=2

Results 1 - 10 of about 232,000 for ethnic cleansing los angeles.

We really dont have to worry about the latinos joining the
blacks.......

In fact...I think we would have to simply sit back and wait for the
shooting to stop. Might take a while...the National Guard...maybe
101st Airborne..MOUT operations....but....shrug




One should remember several thousand people were enroute, and many
other thousands were watching the Ruby Ridge standoff....if such a
thing occures again..memories are very long in the gun culture...dont
expect survivors from the ABC agencies.

Yes, there might be a few unintended consequences for any of the ABC'c
harsher actions this time around, mightn't there?


Shrug...works for me.

And how.

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

On Nov 9, 11:36*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 08 Nov 2008 20:17:27 -0500, Wes wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=4227

Interesting, the obama link didn't resolve so I checked the google cache..

http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:....gov/agenda/ur....

Address Gun Violence in Cities: *As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt
Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun
trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve
gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense
measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away
from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun
show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the
expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign
battlefields and not on our streets.

Busted. *Seems like Obama took his link down after the NraILA posted their message.

And just a few moments ago, I was being magnanimous in defeat.

Wes

As Ive stated....arms and ammo sales are WAY the **** up, as are
purchases of magazines, "magazine repair kits" and so forth.

Look for a reempowerment of the BATF and more massacres by them *in
coming years, followed by a tremendious backlash.

One should remember several thousand people were enroute, and many
other thousands were watching the Ruby Ridge standoff....if such a
thing occures again..memories are very long in the gun culture...dont
expect survivors from the ABC agencies.

Shrug...works for me.

Gunner

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I live about 75 miles from Ruby Ridge and the people in North Idaho
have not forgotten.
Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com

Hawke wrote:
We dropped in at a local Army Navy Surpls store (a REAL one - not a
commercial sporting stuff store claiming to be a mil surplus) had .308
ACP for $10 a box (50!).

.308 ACP?
oooooooooooooOOOOH, SOrRY THErE, wES.
jUST WASHED MY hands and can';t DO a thinG With tHem.


.380 fits a lot better.


Maybe, but that's sure a wimpy cartridge. Borderline for self defense at
best.

I carry a .380
So far no one has offered to let me shoot them with it.

On 2008-11-12, RB wrote:
I carry a .380
So far no one has offered to let me shoot them with it.

No one offered me to shoot them with my BB gun either.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
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Ignoramus7090 wrote:
On 2008-11-12, RB wrote:
I carry a .380
So far no one has offered to let me shoot them with it.

No one offered me to shoot them with my BB gun either.

ok. You can shoot me with your BB gun.

Then it's my turn.

RB wrote:

ok. You can shoot me with your BB gun.

I've been shot in the back with a BB gun. It hurts like hell. Thought it was a wasp or
hornet since I was using a compactor to settle the ground for my garage, er workshop.

Turned off the compactor, walked into the house and asked my wife what does my back look
like, I think I've been stung. She said you have been shot, round hole in your tee shirt,
then she ran to the front door and saw the kids as they ran away.

Fast forward a number of years, the shooter is on his way to prison for assault.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On 2008-11-12, Wes wrote:
RB wrote:

ok. You can shoot me with your BB gun.

I've been shot in the back with a BB gun. It hurts like hell. Thought it was a wasp or
hornet since I was using a compactor to settle the ground for my garage, er workshop.

Turned off the compactor, walked into the house and asked my wife what does my back look
like, I think I've been stung. She said you have been shot, round hole in your tee shirt,
then she ran to the front door and saw the kids as they ran away.

Fast forward a number of years, the shooter is on his way to prison for assault.

I have a decent pneumatic gun, it shoots .22 size (IIRC) pellets at
1,000 fps. I once shot four squirrels with five shots, of whom three
died immediately and one died some time afterwards under the shed.

Those three tasted rather bad. I would rather eat chicken.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
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My rifle is made by GAMO and is similar to this

http://www.gamousa.com/Catalog.aspx?Product=60

It is called Gamo Hunter 220 and is actually .177.

i

On 2008-11-12, Ignoramus7090 wrote:
On 2008-11-12, Wes wrote:
RB wrote:

ok. You can shoot me with your BB gun.

I've been shot in the back with a BB gun. It hurts like hell. Thought it was a wasp or
hornet since I was using a compactor to settle the ground for my garage, er workshop.

Turned off the compactor, walked into the house and asked my wife what does my back look
like, I think I've been stung. She said you have been shot, round hole in your tee shirt,
then she ran to the front door and saw the kids as they ran away.

Fast forward a number of years, the shooter is on his way to prison for assault.

I have a decent pneumatic gun, it shoots .22 size (IIRC) pellets at
1,000 fps. I once shot four squirrels with five shots, of whom three
died immediately and one died some time afterwards under the shed.

Those three tasted rather bad. I would rather eat chicken.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:46:10 -0500, Wes wrote:

RB wrote:

ok. You can shoot me with your BB gun.

I've been shot in the back with a BB gun. It hurts like hell. Thought it was a wasp or
hornet since I was using a compactor to settle the ground for my garage, er workshop.

Turned off the compactor, walked into the house and asked my wife what does my back look
like, I think I've been stung. She said you have been shot, round hole in your tee shirt,
then she ran to the front door and saw the kids as they ran away.

Fast forward a number of years, the shooter is on his way to prison for assault.

Wes
Number of years ago, a contractor's foreman/mechanic (Albert) was
working Sunday afternoon doing some welding inside an earthmover when
he heard PING. He shut off the torch and carefully looked around. Sure
enough, a couple kids with a .22 rifle were coming to check their
marksmanship. When they got fairly close, Albert gave chase, and being
tall and young, soon caught and disarmed them. Not saying a word and
ignoring their verbal abuse, he picked up the cutting torch and
reduced the metal parts to pieces about six inches long and handed it
back to the owner. By this time the young fellow had become very
polite "Please Sir, would you bury this and not tell my Dad where it
is."
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

.380 fits a lot better.


Maybe, but that's sure a wimpy cartridge. Borderline for self defense at
best.


I forget if the story on FlimFlam's assailant was in rec.guns or r.c.m
a few years back, but the long and short is that after being impaled
in his office chair with a samurai sword by his assailant he
remembered the .25 in his pocket and shot his assailant dead with a
single shot. FlimFlam was one of the regular posters years several
years ago. He died within the past couple of years, may have been
related to complications from his knife wounds, but I"m not sure if
I"m remembering that part correctly or not.

Better to have a little gun than no gun, and don't bring a knife to a
gun fight.

RWL

Hawke wrote:
We dropped in at a local Army Navy Surpls store (a REAL one - not a
commercial sporting stuff store claiming to be a mil surplus) had .308
ACP for $10 a box (50!).


.308 ACP?

oooooooooooooOOOOH, SOrRY THErE, wES.
jUST WASHED MY hands and can';t DO a thinG With tHem.


.380 fits a lot better.



Maybe, but that's sure a wimpy cartridge. Borderline for self defense at
best.

Hawke




Any time you want to try it on, bird brain...



--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

Hawke wrote:
We dropped in at a local Army Navy Surpls store (a REAL one - not a
commercial sporting stuff store claiming to be a mil surplus) had .308
ACP for $10 a box (50!).

.308 ACP?
oooooooooooooOOOOH, SOrRY THErE, wES.
jUST WASHED MY hands and can';t DO a thinG With tHem.


.380 fits a lot better.


Maybe, but that's sure a wimpy cartridge. Borderline for self defense at
best.

Hawke

A P3AT in pocket beats a M1911A1 left at home.

Rule #1 in a gun fight: Have a gun.

David

Wes wrote:
RB wrote:

ok. You can shoot me with your BB gun.

I've been shot in the back with a BB gun. It hurts like hell. Thought it was a wasp or
hornet since I was using a compactor to settle the ground for my garage, er workshop.

Turned off the compactor, walked into the house and asked my wife what does my back look
like, I think I've been stung. She said you have been shot, round hole in your tee shirt,
then she ran to the front door and saw the kids as they ran away.

Fast forward a number of years, the shooter is on his way to prison for assault.

Wes

I used to belong to the Milwaukee Airgun Combat Club, we'd spend
Sunday afternoons running around in the woods shooting each other with
BB guns. Eye protection required, beyond that you were on your own.
One guy wore a fencing mask, most wore goggles that had to bounce a BB
at point blank range.

BBs sting a bit and can break the skin of the face. NBD. I never saw
one pierce cloth.

David

On 2008-11-14, David R.Birch wrote:
BBs sting a bit and can break the skin of the face. NBD. I never saw
one pierce cloth.

My BB gun's bullets easily go through plywood. 1000 fps

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
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David R.Birch wrote:
Wes wrote:
RB wrote:

ok. You can shoot me with your BB gun.

I've been shot in the back with a BB gun. It hurts like hell.
Thought it was a wasp or
hornet since I was using a compactor to settle the ground for my
garage, er workshop.

Turned off the compactor, walked into the house and asked my wife what
does my back look
like, I think I've been stung. She said you have been shot, round
hole in your tee shirt,
then she ran to the front door and saw the kids as they ran away.

Fast forward a number of years, the shooter is on his way to prison
for assault.
Wes

I used to belong to the Milwaukee Airgun Combat Club, we'd spend Sunday
afternoons running around in the woods shooting each other with BB guns.
Eye protection required, beyond that you were on your own. One guy wore
a fencing mask, most wore goggles that had to bounce a BB at point blank
range.

BBs sting a bit and can break the skin of the face. NBD. I never saw one
pierce cloth.

David

That must have been when a BB gun was still a toy. Some of the current
models will EASILY kill small game. Step up to a high end pellet rifle
and you wouldn't want to get shot by it. 1600 fps with a .177 projectile!
http://www.gamousa.com/catalog.aspx?product=62
--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!


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"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
m...
Hawke wrote:
We dropped in at a local Army Navy Surpls store (a REAL one - not a
commercial sporting stuff store claiming to be a mil surplus) had .308
ACP for $10 a box (50!).


.308 ACP?

oooooooooooooOOOOH, SOrRY THErE, wES.
jUST WASHED MY hands and can';t DO a thinG With tHem.


.380 fits a lot better.



Maybe, but that's sure a wimpy cartridge. Borderline for self defense at
best.

Hawke




Any time you want to try it on, bird brain...


I prefer .45 ACP. You're welcome to some of that any time too, asshole.

Hawke

"Steve W." wrote in :

Some of the current
models will EASILY kill small game. Step up to a high end pellet rifle
and you wouldn't want to get shot by it. 1600 fps with a .177 projectile!
http://www.gamousa.com/catalog.aspx?product=62

European airgun makers have long produced VERY serious projectile-throwers.

IIRC, some still make 9mm pieces that are well thought of as defensive and
hunting weapons. One such example is at
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=365. This one
launches a 77-100 gr. pellet at 900 fps - roughly equivalent to a .380
round.

FWIW, during WW2 the British deployed two versions of an "air cannon" - the
Holman Projector - that was used as a short-range anti-aircraft/anti-ship
weapon. One (the original) used compressed air while the other used high-
pressure steam from a ship's boiler.

As to the Gamo Extreme Hunter, I'd expect at least as good accuracy as with
a .17 cartridge arm at ranges up to 100 meters and, probably, as good
results. G

On Nov 14, 9:15*am, "RAM³" wrote:
"Steve W." wrote :

*Some of the current
models will EASILY kill small game. Step up to a high end pellet rifle
and you wouldn't want to get shot by it. 1600 fps with a .177 projectile!
http://www.gamousa.com/catalog.aspx?product=62

European airgun makers have long produced VERY serious projectile-throwers.

IIRC, some still make 9mm pieces that are well thought of as defensive and
hunting weapons. One such example is at
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=365. This one
launches a 77-100 gr. pellet at 900 fps - roughly equivalent to a .380
round.

FWIW, during WW2 the British deployed two versions of an "air cannon" - the
Holman Projector - that was used as a short-range anti-aircraft/anti-ship
weapon. One (the original) used compressed air while the other used high-
pressure steam from a ship's boiler.

As to the Gamo Extreme Hunter, I'd expect at least as good accuracy as with
a .17 cartridge arm at ranges up to 100 meters and, probably, as good
results. G



Guns and Trouble
The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented
on his wearing his sidearm. 'Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are
you expecting trouble?' 'No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I
would have brought my rifle.

Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com

"David R.Birch" wrote:

Maybe, but that's sure a wimpy cartridge. Borderline for self defense at
best.

Hawke

A P3AT in pocket beats a M1911A1 left at home.

Rule #1 in a gun fight: Have a gun.

Rule #2, keep firing until assailant isn't a threat. (falls down, stops moving)

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"David R.Birch" wrote:

Maybe, but that's sure a wimpy cartridge. Borderline for self defense at
best.

Hawke

A P3AT in pocket beats a M1911A1 left at home.

Rule #1 in a gun fight: Have a gun.

Rule #2, keep firing until assailant isn't a threat. (falls down, stops
moving)


Rule #3, If they voted for Obama shoot them in the butt, that will be
equivalent of a Headshot for a normal person.

Ignoramus28956 wrote:
On 2008-11-14, David R.Birch wrote:
BBs sting a bit and can break the skin of the face. NBD. I never saw
one pierce cloth.

My BB gun's bullets easily go through plywood. 1000 fps


We restricted the BB guns to 350 fps.

David

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:27:31 -0600, "David R.Birch"
wrote:

Hawke wrote:
We dropped in at a local Army Navy Surpls store (a REAL one - not a
commercial sporting stuff store claiming to be a mil surplus) had .308
ACP for $10 a box (50!).

.308 ACP?
oooooooooooooOOOOH, SOrRY THErE, wES.
jUST WASHED MY hands and can';t DO a thinG With tHem.


.380 fits a lot better.


Maybe, but that's sure a wimpy cartridge. Borderline for self defense at
best.

Hawke

A P3AT in pocket beats a M1911A1 left at home.

Rule #1 in a gun fight: Have a gun.

David


Why would one leave a perfectly good 1911 at home?

Lots of subcompacts in .4x caliber out there.

Gunner

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 01:46:32 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:


BBs sting a bit and can break the skin of the face. NBD. I never saw one
pierce cloth.

David

That must have been when a BB gun was still a toy. Some of the current
models will EASILY kill small game. Step up to a high end pellet rifle
and you wouldn't want to get shot by it. 1600 fps with a .177 projectile!
http://www.gamousa.com/catalog.aspx?product=62


Buddys nephew shot himself in the eye (by accident) with an elderly
Daisy 88 .177 pump gun. With a full 10 pumps.

The autopsy showed 3 seperate wound tracks through the brain matter.
It hit the rear of the skull, bounced, then bounced again.

It took about 20 minutes for the CNS to fail, but they kept him on
life support for about 5 days during which they got all his organs
sorted out for transplant, then pulled the plug on him, then carved
him up like a christmas turkey, his various bits being flown,
transported all over the place. They even used his skin.

Yah...bb guns, at least the better ones, pump or single stroke types,
can indeed kill.

I...er...someone shot a deer with a Sheridan Bluestreak .20, at about
40 feet. Pellet went in just below the left eye socket, and exited
out the rear of the skull, taking a patch of bone about the size of a
nickle, with it.`

Gunner, working all weekend, but posting from a crappy, really crappy
wifi connection

Gunner wrote:

A P3AT in pocket beats a M1911A1 left at home.

Rule #1 in a gun fight: Have a gun.

David


Why would one leave a perfectly good 1911 at home?

Because it's not concealable for many.

Lots of subcompacts in .4x caliber out there.

Not like having the P3AT, knowing it's there, yet not feeling the
weight of a gun in your pocket.

If I run across a small .45 (NOT an AMT Backup) auto w/o paper for a
decent price, I'd probably pick it up. Most I've seen don't seem worth
what they're asking. The small Glock would work.

David

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 08:58:53 -0600, "David R.Birch"
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

A P3AT in pocket beats a M1911A1 left at home.

Rule #1 in a gun fight: Have a gun.

David


Why would one leave a perfectly good 1911 at home?

Because it's not concealable for many.

Lots of subcompacts in .4x caliber out there.

Not like having the P3AT, knowing it's there, yet not feeling the
weight of a gun in your pocket.

If I run across a small .45 (NOT an AMT Backup) auto w/o paper for a
decent price, I'd probably pick it up. Most I've seen don't seem worth
what they're asking. The small Glock would work.

David

Ive carried daily, an AMT DAO (Backup) .45 for at least 10 yrs
somewhere on my person and have fired at least 2000 rds without a
bobble. Its the smallest .45 Ive found to be dead nuts reliable. I
once owned a Semmerling...which was a very very expensive piece of
****.

Now Ive done a bit of tuning to the AMT, ramp job, trigger smoothing
and whatnot, but nothing anyone counldnt do on a kitchen table.

I can group a magazine inside a playing card at 15 yrds if I do my
part, and keep them all inside the COM on a B70 at 25, all day long.

I qualified the last 8 yrs with it for my CCW. High shooter in most of
the classes too.

The .380 AMT Backup, was an utter piece of ****. Ive owned several,
and dumped em after playing with them, finding them to be utterly
unreliable for backup carry. But the .45....good **** Maynard.

I also have a Series 70 with me, just about 24-7, sometimes in my
brief case, sometimes on my person, depending on threat level. Now
its had a "half accuracy" job done to it by me, many years ago. Bout
170,000 rounds through it in the 30 yrs since I bought it to carry as
a deputy. Couple slide stops, a barrel collet,..the usual. It has a
buffer, recoil spring rod, Pacmayers, raised front sight with robins
egg blue insert (needing to redo the insert...it fell out at the
combat match Sept 7th), and I machined and installed a Colt Python
rear adjustable sight in the slide..Crom..maybe 25 yrs ago. I change
the recoil and main springs every 3 yrs or so, "just in case" I
rotate the Wilson Combat mags every 6 months..with one in the weapon,
two loaded and at hand, with 9 more on rotation for this weapon. Ive
got probably 30 or so 1911 mags, as Ive "several" other
1911s/clones/Frankenguns. And a number of hi-caps for the P-14
Paraords, which I built a number of.

When Im out in the desert, I carry either a S&W Mod 57 in .41 Mag, or
a S&W 586 .357. In coyote country, its usually the .357, in hog
country, its usually the .41. Both are 4" barrels

Mostly in Bianchi Cyclone crossdraw rigs (leather..hate the nylon
Cylones) , so I can sit a saddle, drive a vehicle or carry a backpack,
but have concealment rigs for both, (and virtually ALL my
handguns...humm..except for the HS Trophy)

Course I keep a BOB in my truck,with extra mags, ammo and a chopped
and channeled #4 SMLE with XXX spare ammo in strippers in a Garand
belt. My desert rig has a different rifle, with a bit more
range...shrug. The SMLE is only good with military peep for about 600
meters on human sized targets, and in the desert...farther is better.
Shrug.

On Nov 16, 3:09*am, Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 08:58:53 -0600, "David R.Birch"
wrote:





Gunner wrote:

A P3AT in pocket beats a M1911A1 left at home.

Rule #1 in a gun fight: Have a gun.

David

Why would one leave a perfectly good 1911 at home?

Because it's not concealable for many.

Lots of subcompacts in .4x caliber out there.

Not like having the P3AT, knowing it's there, yet not feeling the
weight of a gun in your pocket.

If I run across a small .45 (NOT an AMT Backup) auto w/o paper for a
decent price, I'd probably pick it up. Most I've seen don't seem worth
what they're asking. The small Glock would work.

David

Ive carried daily, an AMT DAO (Backup) .45 for at least 10 yrs
somewhere on my person and have fired at least 2000 rds without a
bobble. *Its the smallest .45 Ive found to be dead nuts reliable. I
once owned a Semmerling...which was a very very expensive piece of
****.

Now Ive done a bit of tuning to the AMT, ramp job, trigger smoothing
and whatnot, but nothing anyone counldnt do on a kitchen table.

I can group a magazine inside a playing card at 15 yrds if I do my
part, and keep them all inside the COM on a B70 at 25, all day long.

I qualified the last 8 yrs with it for my CCW. High shooter in most of
the classes too.

The .380 AMT Backup, was an utter piece of ****. Ive owned several,
and dumped em after playing with them, finding them to be utterly
unreliable for backup carry. *But the .45....good **** Maynard.

I also have a Series 70 with me, just about 24-7, sometimes in my
brief case, sometimes on my person, depending on threat level. * Now
its had a "half accuracy" job done to it by me, many years ago. * Bout
170,000 rounds through it in the 30 yrs since I bought it to carry as
a deputy. *Couple slide stops, a barrel collet,..the usual. It has a
buffer, recoil spring rod, Pacmayers, raised front sight with robins
egg blue insert (needing to redo the insert...it fell out at the
combat match Sept 7th), and I machined and installed a Colt Python
rear adjustable sight in the slide..Crom..maybe 25 yrs ago. *I change
the recoil and main springs every 3 yrs or so, "just in case" *I
rotate the Wilson Combat mags every 6 months..with one in the weapon,
two loaded and at hand, with 9 more on rotation for this weapon. *Ive
got probably 30 or so 1911 mags, as Ive "several" other
1911s/clones/Frankenguns. *And a number of hi-caps for the P-14
Paraords, which I built a number of.

When Im out in the desert, I carry either a S&W Mod 57 in .41 Mag, or
a S&W 586 .357. * In coyote country, its usually the .357, in hog
country, its usually the .41. *Both are 4" barrels

Mostly in Bianchi Cyclone crossdraw rigs (leather..hate the nylon
Cylones) , so I can sit a saddle, drive a vehicle or carry a backpack,
but have concealment rigs for both, (and virtually ALL my
handguns...humm..except for the HS Trophy)

Course I keep a BOB in my truck,with extra mags, ammo and a chopped
and channeled #4 SMLE with XXX spare ammo in strippers in a Garand
belt. * My desert rig has a different rifle, with a bit more
range...shrug. *The SMLE is only good with military peep for about 600
meters on human sized targets, and in the desert...farther is better.
Shrug.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.
Millwrightron
www.unionmillwright.com

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Maybe they're rearranging the furnishings. d8-)

And now the google cache has flushed my earlier link. Like what they said never happened.
This must be doubleplusgood.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Maybe they're rearranging the furnishings. d8-)

And now the google cache has flushed my earlier link. Like what they said
never happened.
This must be doubleplusgood.

If this is still about Obama's election platform, it's available (or it was,
I haven't checked for a few days) on his candidate website, not his "change"
website. It included the stuff about guns.

--
Ed Huntress