I've spent much of my spare time this weekend reading on-line about various
CNC type operations in wood and metal. Looks like for big stuff in metal
you gotta chunk out about ten grand to start for a machine.

For moderately small stuff there looks to be some machines using a rotary
tool that you can be up and running including software for about $1500, but
the real machinists I have talked to so far seem to think those will not be
very accurate due to the side stress on the motors and the quality of the
bearings.

For a little more a couple outfits have regular milling machines converted
to cnc operation in the $2600 to $4000 range. They look pretty good, have
good initial precision as well as accuracy, but alas, their working range is
smaller than the rotary tool machines. Start looking at bigger working
range of travel in even two axis and the price spikes up quickly.

I am looking for a basic CNC machine that I can do plaques upto 12 by 12
give or take, and some prototype work in aluminum for molds to pour lead and
plastics. Something easy to setup and use, that will work reliably, and
that I can afford for hobby use, and that I can do my modeling on my PC.

Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill myslef, but most
affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want to do. Am I
back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill myslef, but most
affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want to do. Am I
back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price. Look for a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're near the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit of a job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of the best.

Good luck

Karl

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill myslef, but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want to do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price. Look for a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're near the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit of a job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of the
best.

Good luck

Karl


I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down moments all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.
Keep in mind the zone has a rather high idiot quotient. Even worse than
here.

Karl

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill myslef, but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want to do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price. Look for a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're near the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit of a job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down moments all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and
Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to be
able to handle your 12" square AL molds. If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone, you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill myslef, but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want to
do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price. Look for
a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're near
the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit of a
job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and

Tormach is nice looking, but when you look their basic CNC pack is $9,500
software not included. Basically back at that ten grand plus I was talking
about. Not a price range conducive to a hobbiest. Well atleast not this
one. Might be able to knock it down some by setting up your own CNC on it,
but then that kinda defeats the purpose, and the base price for their mill
is still $7,500. Still a lot.

Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to be

Smithy looks to be in the same price range at a quick glance.

able to handle your 12" square AL molds.

Actually two different things. 12 x 12 engraving and aluminum molds. Its
starting to look like it might be cheaper to buy two different machines for
this.

If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone,

I've been reading CNC Zone for two days. Its pretty hard to wade through
the bits and pieces of scattered info from people of different knowledge and
skill levels to get to a good getting started point. Putting together a
machine doesn't look that difficult when I just go look at the components
and manufacturer's information. There is a ton of info on CNC zone and if
you know exactly what to search for that's great, but gettign a grasp of the
big picture and finding a starting point is not easy.

you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

The retrofit doesn't look like that big of a deal depending on the machine.
The toughest things seems to be coupling the motors, and calibrating them to
match your software. Some of the small mill manufacturers offer their mills
with mounting for motors for a minimal extra charge. Like I said. It might
be cheaper and more effective for me to get a small mill to convert, and an
engraving router.

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill myslef, but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want to
do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price. Look for
a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're near
the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit of a
job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and

Tormach is nice looking, but when you look their basic CNC pack is $9,500
software not included. Basically back at that ten grand plus I was talking
about. Not a price range conducive to a hobbiest. Well atleast not this
one. Might be able to knock it down some by setting up your own CNC on it,
but then that kinda defeats the purpose, and the base price for their mill
is still $7,500. Still a lot.

Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to be

Smithy looks to be in the same price range at a quick glance.

able to handle your 12" square AL molds.

Actually two different things. 12 x 12 engraving and aluminum molds. Its
starting to look like it might be cheaper to buy two different machines for
this.

If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone,

I've been reading CNC Zone for two days. Its pretty hard to wade through
the bits and pieces of scattered info from people of different knowledge and
skill levels to get to a good getting started point. Putting together a
machine doesn't look that difficult when I just go look at the components
and manufacturer's information. There is a ton of info on CNC zone and if
you know exactly what to search for that's great, but gettign a grasp of the
big picture and finding a starting point is not easy.

you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

The retrofit doesn't look like that big of a deal depending on the machine.
The toughest things seems to be coupling the motors, and calibrating them to
match your software. Some of the small mill manufacturers offer their mills
with mounting for motors for a minimal extra charge. Like I said. It might
be cheaper and more effective for me to get a small mill to convert, and an
engraving router.

When you add up the costs of getting a mill to retrofit, getting new
steppers or servos large enough, fabricating mounts, buying couplings,
stepper or servo drives, power supplies, fitting limit switches if
needed, etc. it adds up real fast. The PC end is the cheap part, most
any $500 new PC and the $150 Mach3 will do the job there.

The big decision is really whether you want a six month retrofit project
or want to get on with your other projects. The real advantage of the
retrofit comes if you can get your hands on a "real" CNC mill with a
dead control that is just a bit too old to be worth fixing. If you get
such a machine cheap, then you can get a much more powerful and solid
machine, that already has the limit switches and many other reusable
components and you can minimize the retrofit cost.

Lacking such a lucky find, you'll end up spending close to the same
amount of money to get the same capabilities as the Tormach or Smitty
units, without a warranty and after spending a substantial amount of
your time and effort.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill myslef,
but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want to
do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price. Look
for
a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're near
the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the
best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit of
a
job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of
the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down
moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and

Tormach is nice looking, but when you look their basic CNC pack is $9,500
software not included. Basically back at that ten grand plus I was
talking
about. Not a price range conducive to a hobbiest. Well atleast not this
one. Might be able to knock it down some by setting up your own CNC on
it,
but then that kinda defeats the purpose, and the base price for their
mill
is still $7,500. Still a lot.

Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to be

Smithy looks to be in the same price range at a quick glance.

able to handle your 12" square AL molds.

Actually two different things. 12 x 12 engraving and aluminum molds.
Its
starting to look like it might be cheaper to buy two different machines
for
this.

If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone,

I've been reading CNC Zone for two days. Its pretty hard to wade through
the bits and pieces of scattered info from people of different knowledge
and
skill levels to get to a good getting started point. Putting together a
machine doesn't look that difficult when I just go look at the components
and manufacturer's information. There is a ton of info on CNC zone and
if
you know exactly what to search for that's great, but gettign a grasp of
the
big picture and finding a starting point is not easy.

you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

The retrofit doesn't look like that big of a deal depending on the
machine.
The toughest things seems to be coupling the motors, and calibrating them
to
match your software. Some of the small mill manufacturers offer their
mills
with mounting for motors for a minimal extra charge. Like I said. It
might
be cheaper and more effective for me to get a small mill to convert, and
an
engraving router.

When you add up the costs of getting a mill to retrofit, getting new
steppers or servos large enough, fabricating mounts, buying couplings,
stepper or servo drives, power supplies, fitting limit switches if
needed, etc. it adds up real fast. The PC end is the cheap part, most
any $500 new PC and the $150 Mach3 will do the job there.

The big decision is really whether you want a six month retrofit project
or want to get on with your other projects. The real advantage of the
retrofit comes if you can get your hands on a "real" CNC mill with a
dead control that is just a bit too old to be worth fixing. If you get
such a machine cheap, then you can get a much more powerful and solid
machine, that already has the limit switches and many other reusable
components and you can minimize the retrofit cost.

Lacking such a lucky find, you'll end up spending close to the same
amount of money to get the same capabilities as the Tormach or Smitty
units, without a warranty and after spending a substantial amount of
your time and effort.

Hence why I think I may be better off to get two different machines for the
two different projects I want to do. A CNC router for engraving, and a much
smaller working area mill for the mold making.

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill myslef,
but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want to
do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price. Look
for
a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're near
the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the
best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit of
a
job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of
the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down
moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and

Tormach is nice looking, but when you look their basic CNC pack is $9,500
software not included. Basically back at that ten grand plus I was
talking
about. Not a price range conducive to a hobbiest. Well atleast not this
one. Might be able to knock it down some by setting up your own CNC on
it,
but then that kinda defeats the purpose, and the base price for their
mill
is still $7,500. Still a lot.

Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to be

Smithy looks to be in the same price range at a quick glance.

able to handle your 12" square AL molds.

Actually two different things. 12 x 12 engraving and aluminum molds.
Its
starting to look like it might be cheaper to buy two different machines
for
this.

If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone,

I've been reading CNC Zone for two days. Its pretty hard to wade through
the bits and pieces of scattered info from people of different knowledge
and
skill levels to get to a good getting started point. Putting together a
machine doesn't look that difficult when I just go look at the components
and manufacturer's information. There is a ton of info on CNC zone and
if
you know exactly what to search for that's great, but gettign a grasp of
the
big picture and finding a starting point is not easy.

you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

The retrofit doesn't look like that big of a deal depending on the
machine.
The toughest things seems to be coupling the motors, and calibrating them
to
match your software. Some of the small mill manufacturers offer their
mills
with mounting for motors for a minimal extra charge. Like I said. It
might
be cheaper and more effective for me to get a small mill to convert, and
an
engraving router.

When you add up the costs of getting a mill to retrofit, getting new
steppers or servos large enough, fabricating mounts, buying couplings,
stepper or servo drives, power supplies, fitting limit switches if
needed, etc. it adds up real fast. The PC end is the cheap part, most
any $500 new PC and the $150 Mach3 will do the job there.

The big decision is really whether you want a six month retrofit project
or want to get on with your other projects. The real advantage of the
retrofit comes if you can get your hands on a "real" CNC mill with a
dead control that is just a bit too old to be worth fixing. If you get
such a machine cheap, then you can get a much more powerful and solid
machine, that already has the limit switches and many other reusable
components and you can minimize the retrofit cost.

Lacking such a lucky find, you'll end up spending close to the same
amount of money to get the same capabilities as the Tormach or Smitty
units, without a warranty and after spending a substantial amount of
your time and effort.

Hence why I think I may be better off to get two different machines for the
two different projects I want to do. A CNC router for engraving, and a much
smaller working area mill for the mold making.

Well, a larger machine will do the sign stuff fine. A smaller machine
that is beefy enough for the molds, should be able to do the sign stuff
ok in a couple setups working in smaller blocks. Find that great deal on
a real CNC machine and you might get ATC as well

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill
myslef,
but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want
to
do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price.
Look
for
a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're
near
the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the
best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit
of
a
job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of
the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down
moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and

Tormach is nice looking, but when you look their basic CNC pack is
$9,500
software not included. Basically back at that ten grand plus I was
talking
about. Not a price range conducive to a hobbiest. Well atleast not
this
one. Might be able to knock it down some by setting up your own CNC
on
it,
but then that kinda defeats the purpose, and the base price for their
mill
is still $7,500. Still a lot.

Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to
be

Smithy looks to be in the same price range at a quick glance.

able to handle your 12" square AL molds.

Actually two different things. 12 x 12 engraving and aluminum molds.
Its
starting to look like it might be cheaper to buy two different
machines
for
this.

If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone,

I've been reading CNC Zone for two days. Its pretty hard to wade
through
the bits and pieces of scattered info from people of different
knowledge
and
skill levels to get to a good getting started point. Putting together
a
machine doesn't look that difficult when I just go look at the
components
and manufacturer's information. There is a ton of info on CNC zone
and
if
you know exactly what to search for that's great, but gettign a grasp
of
the
big picture and finding a starting point is not easy.

you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

The retrofit doesn't look like that big of a deal depending on the
machine.
The toughest things seems to be coupling the motors, and calibrating
them
to
match your software. Some of the small mill manufacturers offer their
mills
with mounting for motors for a minimal extra charge. Like I said. It
might
be cheaper and more effective for me to get a small mill to convert,
and
an
engraving router.

When you add up the costs of getting a mill to retrofit, getting new
steppers or servos large enough, fabricating mounts, buying couplings,
stepper or servo drives, power supplies, fitting limit switches if
needed, etc. it adds up real fast. The PC end is the cheap part, most
any $500 new PC and the $150 Mach3 will do the job there.

The big decision is really whether you want a six month retrofit
project
or want to get on with your other projects. The real advantage of the
retrofit comes if you can get your hands on a "real" CNC mill with a
dead control that is just a bit too old to be worth fixing. If you get
such a machine cheap, then you can get a much more powerful and solid
machine, that already has the limit switches and many other reusable
components and you can minimize the retrofit cost.

Lacking such a lucky find, you'll end up spending close to the same
amount of money to get the same capabilities as the Tormach or Smitty
units, without a warranty and after spending a substantial amount of
your time and effort.

Hence why I think I may be better off to get two different machines for
the
two different projects I want to do. A CNC router for engraving, and a
much
smaller working area mill for the mold making.

Well, a larger machine will do the sign stuff fine. A smaller machine
that is beefy enough for the molds, should be able to do the sign stuff
ok in a couple setups working in smaller blocks. Find that great deal on
a real CNC machine and you might get ATC as well

There are a lot of big used milling machines for sale these days as I search
around on-line. I just need to find the right one that isn't to far away
for me to go get it.

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill
myslef,
but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want
to
do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price.
Look
for
a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're
near
the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the
best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit
of
a
job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of
the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down
moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and

Tormach is nice looking, but when you look their basic CNC pack is
$9,500
software not included. Basically back at that ten grand plus I was
talking
about. Not a price range conducive to a hobbiest. Well atleast not
this
one. Might be able to knock it down some by setting up your own CNC
on
it,
but then that kinda defeats the purpose, and the base price for their
mill
is still $7,500. Still a lot.

Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to
be

Smithy looks to be in the same price range at a quick glance.

able to handle your 12" square AL molds.

Actually two different things. 12 x 12 engraving and aluminum molds.
Its
starting to look like it might be cheaper to buy two different
machines
for
this.

If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone,

I've been reading CNC Zone for two days. Its pretty hard to wade
through
the bits and pieces of scattered info from people of different
knowledge
and
skill levels to get to a good getting started point. Putting together
a
machine doesn't look that difficult when I just go look at the
components
and manufacturer's information. There is a ton of info on CNC zone
and
if
you know exactly what to search for that's great, but gettign a grasp
of
the
big picture and finding a starting point is not easy.

you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

The retrofit doesn't look like that big of a deal depending on the
machine.
The toughest things seems to be coupling the motors, and calibrating
them
to
match your software. Some of the small mill manufacturers offer their
mills
with mounting for motors for a minimal extra charge. Like I said. It
might
be cheaper and more effective for me to get a small mill to convert,
and
an
engraving router.

When you add up the costs of getting a mill to retrofit, getting new
steppers or servos large enough, fabricating mounts, buying couplings,
stepper or servo drives, power supplies, fitting limit switches if
needed, etc. it adds up real fast. The PC end is the cheap part, most
any $500 new PC and the $150 Mach3 will do the job there.

The big decision is really whether you want a six month retrofit
project
or want to get on with your other projects. The real advantage of the
retrofit comes if you can get your hands on a "real" CNC mill with a
dead control that is just a bit too old to be worth fixing. If you get
such a machine cheap, then you can get a much more powerful and solid
machine, that already has the limit switches and many other reusable
components and you can minimize the retrofit cost.

Lacking such a lucky find, you'll end up spending close to the same
amount of money to get the same capabilities as the Tormach or Smitty
units, without a warranty and after spending a substantial amount of
your time and effort.

Hence why I think I may be better off to get two different machines for
the
two different projects I want to do. A CNC router for engraving, and a
much
smaller working area mill for the mold making.

Well, a larger machine will do the sign stuff fine. A smaller machine
that is beefy enough for the molds, should be able to do the sign stuff
ok in a couple setups working in smaller blocks. Find that great deal on
a real CNC machine and you might get ATC as well

There are a lot of big used milling machines for sale these days as I search
around on-line. I just need to find the right one that isn't to far away
for me to go get it.

One of the relatively small vertical mills with a small ~8-10 tool ATC
would be perfect.

On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:50:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
nster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill myslef, but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want to
do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price. Look for
a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're near
the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit of a
job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and

Tormach is nice looking, but when you look their basic CNC pack is $9,500
software not included. Basically back at that ten grand plus I was talking
about. Not a price range conducive to a hobbiest. Well atleast not this
one. Might be able to knock it down some by setting up your own CNC on it,
but then that kinda defeats the purpose, and the base price for their mill
is still $7,500. Still a lot.

Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to be

Smithy looks to be in the same price range at a quick glance.

able to handle your 12" square AL molds.

Actually two different things. 12 x 12 engraving and aluminum molds. Its
starting to look like it might be cheaper to buy two different machines for
this.

If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone,

I've been reading CNC Zone for two days. Its pretty hard to wade through
the bits and pieces of scattered info from people of different knowledge and
skill levels to get to a good getting started point. Putting together a
machine doesn't look that difficult when I just go look at the components
and manufacturer's information. There is a ton of info on CNC zone and if
you know exactly what to search for that's great, but gettign a grasp of the
big picture and finding a starting point is not easy.

you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

The retrofit doesn't look like that big of a deal depending on the machine.
The toughest things seems to be coupling the motors, and calibrating them to
match your software. Some of the small mill manufacturers offer their mills
with mounting for motors for a minimal extra charge. Like I said. It might
be cheaper and more effective for me to get a small mill to convert, and an
engraving router.



Anyone interested...Ive got a Hitachi-Seiki for sale. 30 taper,
carosel (10 tools IIRC..maybe 15), coolant, pretty damned clean and
was running good when I disconnected the power 6 months ago. Fresh ram
batteries installed before pulling power.

Located in Fullerton, California. $5k Includes all the books and
manuals, vise, some tooling etc etc.

Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

As you are discovering, CNC is a vast area of many cost levels. I've stayed
away from it, but there are numerous must-have-CNC machine uses for many
levels of HSM or hobbiest/metal enthusiast projects.

If I were going to pursue CNC, my approach would probably be to start with
something small such as converting an existing manual X-Y table (using 2
identical drive schemes), where a Z axis could be added as my slow grey
matter caught up to how it all works and what other work/parts would be
required.

Another CNC forum is the Chaski groups which are moderated, so that all of
the posted material is relevent to specific metalworking subjects.

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/

Home Shop CNC forum

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
I've spent much of my spare time this weekend reading on-line about
various CNC type operations in wood and metal. Looks like for big stuff
in metal you gotta chunk out about ten grand to start for a machine.

For moderately small stuff there looks to be some machines using a rotary
tool that you can be up and running including software for about $1500,
but the real machinists I have talked to so far seem to think those will
not be very accurate due to the side stress on the motors and the quality
of the bearings.

For a little more a couple outfits have regular milling machines converted
to cnc operation in the $2600 to $4000 range. They look pretty good, have
good initial precision as well as accuracy, but alas, their working range
is smaller than the rotary tool machines. Start looking at bigger working
range of travel in even two axis and the price spikes up quickly.

I am looking for a basic CNC machine that I can do plaques upto 12 by 12
give or take, and some prototype work in aluminum for molds to pour lead
and plastics. Something easy to setup and use, that will work reliably,
and that I can afford for hobby use, and that I can do my modeling on my
PC.

Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill myslef, but most
affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want to do. Am I
back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:50:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
onster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill myslef,
but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want to
do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price. Look
for
a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're near
the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the
best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit of
a
job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down
moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and

Tormach is nice looking, but when you look their basic CNC pack is $9,500
software not included. Basically back at that ten grand plus I was
talking
about. Not a price range conducive to a hobbiest. Well atleast not this
one. Might be able to knock it down some by setting up your own CNC on
it,
but then that kinda defeats the purpose, and the base price for their mill
is still $7,500. Still a lot.

Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to be

Smithy looks to be in the same price range at a quick glance.

able to handle your 12" square AL molds.

Actually two different things. 12 x 12 engraving and aluminum molds. Its
starting to look like it might be cheaper to buy two different machines
for
this.

If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone,

I've been reading CNC Zone for two days. Its pretty hard to wade through
the bits and pieces of scattered info from people of different knowledge
and
skill levels to get to a good getting started point. Putting together a
machine doesn't look that difficult when I just go look at the components
and manufacturer's information. There is a ton of info on CNC zone and if
you know exactly what to search for that's great, but gettign a grasp of
the
big picture and finding a starting point is not easy.

you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

The retrofit doesn't look like that big of a deal depending on the
machine.
The toughest things seems to be coupling the motors, and calibrating them
to
match your software. Some of the small mill manufacturers offer their
mills
with mounting for motors for a minimal extra charge. Like I said. It
might
be cheaper and more effective for me to get a small mill to convert, and
an
engraving router.



Anyone interested...Ive got a Hitachi-Seiki for sale. 30 taper,
carosel (10 tools IIRC..maybe 15), coolant, pretty damned clean and
was running good when I disconnected the power 6 months ago. Fresh ram
batteries installed before pulling power.

Located in Fullerton, California. $5k Includes all the books and
manuals, vise, some tooling etc etc.

Also, kmb1 Hurcos (USA) can be had relatively cheap, $3-6K, sometimes with a
10 tool changer. The tool changing hurco needs about 9 feet of headroom,
tho, and all are about 4-5,000#. Boards can be a little pricey, and
moldmaking would require g-code/dnc.

Can also get 90's vintage Haas, fadals for mebbe under $10K -- also USA. 21
tool carousels, weigh about 6,000 lbs, footprint about 7x7 + access space,
also need 8-9 ft headroom, work well from a properly-tuned rpc.

Call local dealers, they often have heads up on who's getting rid of what.

I don't think Gunner sells to Democrats -- or if he does, there is a steep
surcharge.
--
DT




Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

snip

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and
Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to be
able to handle your 12" square AL molds. If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone, you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

Tormach (and maybe Smithy) will put you in touch with local owners that
don't mind showing their machines. That's a nice way to get a real life
opinion of the machine.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill
myslef,
but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want
to
do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price.
Look
for
a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're
near
the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the
best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit
of
a
job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of
the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down
moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and

Tormach is nice looking, but when you look their basic CNC pack is
$9,500
software not included. Basically back at that ten grand plus I was
talking
about. Not a price range conducive to a hobbiest. Well atleast not
this
one. Might be able to knock it down some by setting up your own CNC
on
it,
but then that kinda defeats the purpose, and the base price for their
mill
is still $7,500. Still a lot.

Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to
be

Smithy looks to be in the same price range at a quick glance.

able to handle your 12" square AL molds.

Actually two different things. 12 x 12 engraving and aluminum molds.
Its
starting to look like it might be cheaper to buy two different
machines
for
this.

If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone,

I've been reading CNC Zone for two days. Its pretty hard to wade
through
the bits and pieces of scattered info from people of different
knowledge
and
skill levels to get to a good getting started point. Putting together
a
machine doesn't look that difficult when I just go look at the
components
and manufacturer's information. There is a ton of info on CNC zone
and
if
you know exactly what to search for that's great, but gettign a grasp
of
the
big picture and finding a starting point is not easy.

you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

The retrofit doesn't look like that big of a deal depending on the
machine.
The toughest things seems to be coupling the motors, and calibrating
them
to
match your software. Some of the small mill manufacturers offer their
mills
with mounting for motors for a minimal extra charge. Like I said. It
might
be cheaper and more effective for me to get a small mill to convert,
and
an
engraving router.

When you add up the costs of getting a mill to retrofit, getting new
steppers or servos large enough, fabricating mounts, buying couplings,
stepper or servo drives, power supplies, fitting limit switches if
needed, etc. it adds up real fast. The PC end is the cheap part, most
any $500 new PC and the $150 Mach3 will do the job there.

The big decision is really whether you want a six month retrofit
project
or want to get on with your other projects. The real advantage of the
retrofit comes if you can get your hands on a "real" CNC mill with a
dead control that is just a bit too old to be worth fixing. If you get
such a machine cheap, then you can get a much more powerful and solid
machine, that already has the limit switches and many other reusable
components and you can minimize the retrofit cost.

Lacking such a lucky find, you'll end up spending close to the same
amount of money to get the same capabilities as the Tormach or Smitty
units, without a warranty and after spending a substantial amount of
your time and effort.

Hence why I think I may be better off to get two different machines for
the
two different projects I want to do. A CNC router for engraving, and a
much
smaller working area mill for the mold making.

Well, a larger machine will do the sign stuff fine. A smaller machine
that is beefy enough for the molds, should be able to do the sign stuff
ok in a couple setups working in smaller blocks. Find that great deal on
a real CNC machine and you might get ATC as well

The Tormach's Y-axis travel is 9-1/2 inches so that's smaller than the 12x12
engraving requirement. Another product to consider would be Industrial
Hobbies - they sell manual bothe turnkey CNC mills as well as CNC retrofit
kits.

They have some good looking stuff there. I may get in touch with them for
some pricing.

"Mike Henry" wrote in message
...

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill
myslef,
but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I
want to
do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price.
Look
for
a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're
near
the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of
the
best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a
bit of
a
job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one
of
the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down
moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and

Tormach is nice looking, but when you look their basic CNC pack is
$9,500
software not included. Basically back at that ten grand plus I was
talking
about. Not a price range conducive to a hobbiest. Well atleast not
this
one. Might be able to knock it down some by setting up your own CNC
on
it,
but then that kinda defeats the purpose, and the base price for their
mill
is still $7,500. Still a lot.

Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to
be

Smithy looks to be in the same price range at a quick glance.

able to handle your 12" square AL molds.

Actually two different things. 12 x 12 engraving and aluminum molds.
Its
starting to look like it might be cheaper to buy two different
machines
for
this.

If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone,

I've been reading CNC Zone for two days. Its pretty hard to wade
through
the bits and pieces of scattered info from people of different
knowledge
and
skill levels to get to a good getting started point. Putting
together a
machine doesn't look that difficult when I just go look at the
components
and manufacturer's information. There is a ton of info on CNC zone
and
if
you know exactly what to search for that's great, but gettign a grasp
of
the
big picture and finding a starting point is not easy.

you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

The retrofit doesn't look like that big of a deal depending on the
machine.
The toughest things seems to be coupling the motors, and calibrating
them
to
match your software. Some of the small mill manufacturers offer
their
mills
with mounting for motors for a minimal extra charge. Like I said.
It
might
be cheaper and more effective for me to get a small mill to convert,
and
an
engraving router.

When you add up the costs of getting a mill to retrofit, getting new
steppers or servos large enough, fabricating mounts, buying couplings,
stepper or servo drives, power supplies, fitting limit switches if
needed, etc. it adds up real fast. The PC end is the cheap part, most
any $500 new PC and the $150 Mach3 will do the job there.

The big decision is really whether you want a six month retrofit
project
or want to get on with your other projects. The real advantage of the
retrofit comes if you can get your hands on a "real" CNC mill with a
dead control that is just a bit too old to be worth fixing. If you get
such a machine cheap, then you can get a much more powerful and solid
machine, that already has the limit switches and many other reusable
components and you can minimize the retrofit cost.

Lacking such a lucky find, you'll end up spending close to the same
amount of money to get the same capabilities as the Tormach or Smitty
units, without a warranty and after spending a substantial amount of
your time and effort.

Hence why I think I may be better off to get two different machines for
the
two different projects I want to do. A CNC router for engraving, and a
much
smaller working area mill for the mold making.

Well, a larger machine will do the sign stuff fine. A smaller machine
that is beefy enough for the molds, should be able to do the sign stuff
ok in a couple setups working in smaller blocks. Find that great deal on
a real CNC machine and you might get ATC as well

The Tormach's Y-axis travel is 9-1/2 inches so that's smaller than the
12x12 engraving requirement. Another product to consider would be
Industrial Hobbies - they sell manual bothe turnkey CNC mills as well as
CNC retrofit kits.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:58:12 -0400, "DrollTroll"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:50:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
monster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill myslef,
but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I want to
do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price. Look
for
a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're near
the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of the
best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a bit of
a
job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one of the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down
moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and

Tormach is nice looking, but when you look their basic CNC pack is $9,500
software not included. Basically back at that ten grand plus I was
talking
about. Not a price range conducive to a hobbiest. Well atleast not this
one. Might be able to knock it down some by setting up your own CNC on
it,
but then that kinda defeats the purpose, and the base price for their mill
is still $7,500. Still a lot.

Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to be

Smithy looks to be in the same price range at a quick glance.

able to handle your 12" square AL molds.

Actually two different things. 12 x 12 engraving and aluminum molds. Its
starting to look like it might be cheaper to buy two different machines
for
this.

If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone,

I've been reading CNC Zone for two days. Its pretty hard to wade through
the bits and pieces of scattered info from people of different knowledge
and
skill levels to get to a good getting started point. Putting together a
machine doesn't look that difficult when I just go look at the components
and manufacturer's information. There is a ton of info on CNC zone and if
you know exactly what to search for that's great, but gettign a grasp of
the
big picture and finding a starting point is not easy.

you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

The retrofit doesn't look like that big of a deal depending on the
machine.
The toughest things seems to be coupling the motors, and calibrating them
to
match your software. Some of the small mill manufacturers offer their
mills
with mounting for motors for a minimal extra charge. Like I said. It
might
be cheaper and more effective for me to get a small mill to convert, and
an
engraving router.



Anyone interested...Ive got a Hitachi-Seiki for sale. 30 taper,
carosel (10 tools IIRC..maybe 15), coolant, pretty damned clean and
was running good when I disconnected the power 6 months ago. Fresh ram
batteries installed before pulling power.

Located in Fullerton, California. $5k Includes all the books and
manuals, vise, some tooling etc etc.

Also, kmb1 Hurcos (USA) can be had relatively cheap, $3-6K, sometimes with a
10 tool changer. The tool changing hurco needs about 9 feet of headroom,
tho, and all are about 4-5,000#. Boards can be a little pricey, and
moldmaking would require g-code/dnc.

Can also get 90's vintage Haas, fadals for mebbe under $10K -- also USA. 21
tool carousels, weigh about 6,000 lbs, footprint about 7x7 + access space,
also need 8-9 ft headroom, work well from a properly-tuned rpc.

Call local dealers, they often have heads up on who's getting rid of what.

I don't think Gunner sells to Democrats -- or if he does, there is a steep
surcharge.


**** dude...Id sell to the Devil himself, business is business.

Hummm though for some leftwing fringe extremist kooks here...I might
play with the perimeters a bit....G

Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

"Mike Henry" wrote in message
...

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Where do I start? I looked at adding a CNC kit to a mill
myslef,
but
most affordable mills are to small to do some of the work I
want to
do.
Am I back to looking at the rotary tool on rails setups?

Mills with obsolete CNC controls can be found for scrap price.
Look
for
a
knee mill with a BOSS (Bridgeport) or Bandit control. If you're
near
the
left coast, there seems to be a lot of Shizouka mills, one of
the
best
choices.

Refit the machine with the PC based control Mach 3, This is a
bit of
a
job
but there are several NGs to go for advice. CNCzone.com is one
of
the
best.

Good luck

Karl

I have been reading CNCzone and some others in my spare sit down
moments
all
weekend. There is just too much information to absorb.

Pickup a copy of Home Shop Machinist and look over the Tormach and

Tormach is nice looking, but when you look their basic CNC pack is
$9,500
software not included. Basically back at that ten grand plus I was
talking
about. Not a price range conducive to a hobbiest. Well atleast not
this
one. Might be able to knock it down some by setting up your own CNC
on
it,
but then that kinda defeats the purpose, and the base price for their
mill
is still $7,500. Still a lot.

Smithy ads, both offer turnkey packages with mills large enough to
be

Smithy looks to be in the same price range at a quick glance.

able to handle your 12" square AL molds.

Actually two different things. 12 x 12 engraving and aluminum molds.
Its
starting to look like it might be cheaper to buy two different
machines
for
this.

If as you indicate there is too
much information to absorb on CNCzone,

I've been reading CNC Zone for two days. Its pretty hard to wade
through
the bits and pieces of scattered info from people of different
knowledge
and
skill levels to get to a good getting started point. Putting
together a
machine doesn't look that difficult when I just go look at the
components
and manufacturer's information. There is a ton of info on CNC zone
and
if
you know exactly what to search for that's great, but gettign a grasp
of
the
big picture and finding a starting point is not easy.

you probably won't want to spend
the time and effort to do a CNC retrofit yourself.

The retrofit doesn't look like that big of a deal depending on the
machine.
The toughest things seems to be coupling the motors, and calibrating
them
to
match your software. Some of the small mill manufacturers offer
their
mills
with mounting for motors for a minimal extra charge. Like I said.
It
might
be cheaper and more effective for me to get a small mill to convert,
and
an
engraving router.

When you add up the costs of getting a mill to retrofit, getting new
steppers or servos large enough, fabricating mounts, buying couplings,
stepper or servo drives, power supplies, fitting limit switches if
needed, etc. it adds up real fast. The PC end is the cheap part, most
any $500 new PC and the $150 Mach3 will do the job there.

The big decision is really whether you want a six month retrofit
project
or want to get on with your other projects. The real advantage of the
retrofit comes if you can get your hands on a "real" CNC mill with a
dead control that is just a bit too old to be worth fixing. If you get
such a machine cheap, then you can get a much more powerful and solid
machine, that already has the limit switches and many other reusable
components and you can minimize the retrofit cost.

Lacking such a lucky find, you'll end up spending close to the same
amount of money to get the same capabilities as the Tormach or Smitty
units, without a warranty and after spending a substantial amount of
your time and effort.

Hence why I think I may be better off to get two different machines for
the
two different projects I want to do. A CNC router for engraving, and a
much
smaller working area mill for the mold making.

Well, a larger machine will do the sign stuff fine. A smaller machine
that is beefy enough for the molds, should be able to do the sign stuff
ok in a couple setups working in smaller blocks. Find that great deal on
a real CNC machine and you might get ATC as well

The Tormach's Y-axis travel is 9-1/2 inches so that's smaller than the
12x12 engraving requirement. Another product to consider would be
Industrial Hobbies - they sell manual bothe turnkey CNC mills as well as
CNC retrofit kits.

In my reply to gunner, I omitted that the tables on the smaller fadals are
16x30, considerably smaller on the hurco's, on the order of 12x24 or 14 x 28
or thereabouts.

--
DT

They have some pretty incredible technology over at Majestic Machinery in Los Angeles. I am personally really happy with one of their 4 x 4 routers. Here is their website. http://majesticmachinery.com/