I have an old (1947±) LeBlonde Regal lathe. The huge motor (G.E. probably
only 2 hp) has grease fittings on each end (motor housing). Do I really use
grease? Do I replace the zerks with cups and add oil? Or do I modify my
grease gun to use oil?

All advise appreciated.

Ivan Vegvary

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
...
I have an old (1947±) LeBlonde Regal lathe. The huge motor (G.E. probably
only 2 hp) has grease fittings on each end (motor housing). Do I really
use grease? Do I replace the zerks with cups and add oil? Or do I modify
my grease gun to use oil?

All advise appreciated.

Ivan Vegvary


Hi Ivan,
I used to run an early '60s Devlieg jig mill at work with a huge motor that
also had grease fittings at each end. We did (and still do) use grease in
it. Ours has plugs on the opposite side of the housing from the zerks that
need to be removed before new grease is added or you'll blow out the seals
and pump the motor full of grease. We just pull out the plugs and pump in
new grease thru the zerk till the new grease starts coming out of the plug
hole and replace the plugs.
Paul

I have an even older Wagner 7.5 HP motor with grease fittings on each end. Grease is a way to keep
something oiled without having to tend to it very often. Think of grease as it was originally . . .
oil absorbed into soap flakes.

Bob Swinney
"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
...
I have an old (1947±) LeBlonde Regal lathe. The huge motor (G.E. probably
only 2 hp) has grease fittings on each end (motor housing). Do I really
use grease? Do I replace the zerks with cups and add oil? Or do I modify
my grease gun to use oil?

All advise appreciated.

Ivan Vegvary


Hi Ivan,
I used to run an early '60s Devlieg jig mill at work with a huge motor that
also had grease fittings at each end. We did (and still do) use grease in
it. Ours has plugs on the opposite side of the housing from the zerks that
need to be removed before new grease is added or you'll blow out the seals
and pump the motor full of grease. We just pull out the plugs and pump in
new grease thru the zerk till the new grease starts coming out of the plug
hole and replace the plugs.
Paul

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:01:08 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:

I have an even older Wagner 7.5 HP motor with grease fittings on each end. Grease is a way to keep
something oiled without having to tend to it very often. Think of grease as it was originally . . .
oil absorbed into soap flakes.

Bob Swinney
"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
...
I have an old (1947±) LeBlonde Regal lathe. The huge motor (G.E. probably
only 2 hp) has grease fittings on each end (motor housing). Do I really
use grease? Do I replace the zerks with cups and add oil? Or do I modify
my grease gun to use oil?

All advise appreciated.

Ivan Vegvary


Hi Ivan,
I used to run an early '60s Devlieg jig mill at work with a huge motor that
also had grease fittings at each end. We did (and still do) use grease in
it. Ours has plugs on the opposite side of the housing from the zerks that
need to be removed before new grease is added or you'll blow out the seals
and pump the motor full of grease. We just pull out the plugs and pump in
new grease thru the zerk till the new grease starts coming out of the plug
hole and replace the plugs.
Paul

Over lubrication is the primary cause of premature bearing failure.
Check out lube recommendations on the bearing or grease manufacturers
web site. Depending on the capacity of your grease gun usually a
couple of shots periodically will suffice.

Christopher Tidy wrote:

Robert Swinney wrote:

I have an even older Wagner 7.5 HP motor with grease fittings on each
end. Grease is a way to keep something oiled without having to tend
to it very often. Think of grease as it was originally . . . oil
absorbed into soap flakes.


Interesting. I never heard that before. I had always assumed that the
first grease was derived from animal fat.

... soap being of course animal fat boiled up with lye

Grant
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Robert Swinney wrote:
I have an even older Wagner 7.5 HP motor with grease fittings on each end. Grease is a way to keep
something oiled without having to tend to it very often. Think of grease as it was originally . . .
oil absorbed into soap flakes.

Interesting. I never heard that before. I had always assumed that the
first grease was derived from animal fat.

Best wishes,

Chris

REMOVE Tom wrote:

Over lubrication is the primary cause of premature bearing failure.
Check out lube recommendations on the bearing or grease manufacturers
web site. Depending on the capacity of your grease gun usually a
couple of shots periodically will suffice.

Is that true? What damage does it do to the bearings? The worst I've
seen is for the excess grease to squirt out and make a mess.

Best wishes,

Chris

On Oct 9, 9:55*pm, Christopher Tidy
wrote:
REMOVE Tom wrote:
Over lubrication is the primary cause of premature bearing failure.
Check out lube recommendations on the bearing or grease manufacturers
web site. Depending on the capacity of your grease gun usually a
couple of shots periodically will suffice.

Is that true? What damage does it do to the bearings? The worst I've
seen is for the excess grease to squirt out and make a mess.

Too much greease in a high speed bearing can very easily cause it to
overheat.
Small 1800 rpm motors will have no problems with overgreasing other
than the mess.


Best wishes,

Chris

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:55:12 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:

REMOVE Tom wrote:

Over lubrication is the primary cause of premature bearing failure.
Check out lube recommendations on the bearing or grease manufacturers
web site. Depending on the capacity of your grease gun usually a
couple of shots periodically will suffice.

Is that true? What damage does it do to the bearings? The worst I've
seen is for the excess grease to squirt out and make a mess.

Best wishes,

Chris

Grease is a great insulator - the rollers will push it out of their
path forming a wall which prevents it from dissipating the heat.

On Oct 10, 7:54*pm, Christopher Tidy
wrote:
Grant Erwin wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote:

Robert Swinney wrote:

I have an even older Wagner 7.5 HP motor with grease fittings on each
end. *Grease is a way to keep something oiled without having to tend
to it very often. *Think of grease as it was originally . . . oil
absorbed into soap flakes.

Interesting. I never heard that before. I had always assumed that the
first grease was derived from animal fat.

.. soap being of course animal fat boiled up with lye

Good point, Grant. I'd overlooked that.

Does anyone know of a book which describes the process of making grease
from oil and soap flakes? I'd be interested to read about it.

Best wishes,

Chris

Mix and stir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grease_(lubricant)

REMOVE Tom wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:55:12 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:


REMOVE Tom wrote:


Over lubrication is the primary cause of premature bearing failure.
Check out lube recommendations on the bearing or grease manufacturers
web site. Depending on the capacity of your grease gun usually a
couple of shots periodically will suffice.

Is that true? What damage does it do to the bearings? The worst I've
seen is for the excess grease to squirt out and make a mess.

Best wishes,

Chris


Grease is a great insulator - the rollers will push it out of their
path forming a wall which prevents it from dissipating the heat.

Surely this is only going to be a problem in bearings which run at tens
of thousands of rpm?

Best wishes,

Chris

Grant Erwin wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote:

Robert Swinney wrote:

I have an even older Wagner 7.5 HP motor with grease fittings on each
end. Grease is a way to keep something oiled without having to tend
to it very often. Think of grease as it was originally . . . oil
absorbed into soap flakes.



Interesting. I never heard that before. I had always assumed that the
first grease was derived from animal fat.


.. soap being of course animal fat boiled up with lye

Good point, Grant. I'd overlooked that.

Does anyone know of a book which describes the process of making grease
from oil and soap flakes? I'd be interested to read about it.

Best wishes,

Chris

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:54:32 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Grant Erwin wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote:

Robert Swinney wrote:

I have an even older Wagner 7.5 HP motor with grease fittings on each
end. Grease is a way to keep something oiled without having to tend
to it very often. Think of grease as it was originally . . . oil
absorbed into soap flakes.



Interesting. I never heard that before. I had always assumed that the
first grease was derived from animal fat.


.. soap being of course animal fat boiled up with lye

Good point, Grant. I'd overlooked that.

Does anyone know of a book which describes the process of making grease
from oil and soap flakes? I'd be interested to read about it.

Best wishes,

Chris
The "soap" isn't necessarily something you would wash with. Lithium
is one "soap" used. So is Sodium, and Barium, as well as Calcium and
aluminum.

All the above are considered "soap" type greases.
I don't know of any grease in common use made from Lye soap (or Ivory
Snow)
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On 2008-10-10, Christopher Tidy wrote:
REMOVE Tom wrote:

[ ... ]

Grease is a great insulator - the rollers will push it out of their
path forming a wall which prevents it from dissipating the heat.

Surely this is only going to be a problem in bearings which run at tens
of thousands of rpm?

That depends on the size of the bearing. let's say for a 1/4"
ID bearing, the balls run at approximately a 1/2" diameter, and get the
SFM for that at 10,000 RPM as a starting point:

1309 SFM

Now -- let's take the shaft diameter up to say 2", and say perhaps
2-1/2" for the diameter of the bearing ball's path:

5208 SFM

And a really serious electric motor with a 6" shaft (you can guess the
horsepower rating if you wish), and probably 8" diameter bearing ball path:

20,943 SFM

So -- at what speed does the grease migration start to become a problem?

Assuming the 1039 SFM as the top acceptable one with the 1/4"
shaft, we get 625 RPM for the maximum speed for the 6" shaft.

And how big *do* electric motor shafts get? (Of course, the
larger ones do run slower to keep from self-disassembly. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:52:01 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:


REMOVE Tom wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:55:12 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:



REMOVE Tom wrote:



Over lubrication is the primary cause of premature bearing failure.
Check out lube recommendations on the bearing or grease manufacturers
web site. Depending on the capacity of your grease gun usually a
couple of shots periodically will suffice.

Is that true? What damage does it do to the bearings? The worst I've
seen is for the excess grease to squirt out and make a mess.

Best wishes,

Chris


Grease is a great insulator - the rollers will push it out of their
path forming a wall which prevents it from dissipating the heat.

Surely this is only going to be a problem in bearings which run at tens
of thousands of rpm?

Best wishes,

Chris


Over greased bearings start heating up at 1500 rpm

I've sometimes seen two maximum speeds quoted on bearing data sheets: a
lower speed for grease lubrication and a higher speed for oil lubrication.
I guess the advantage of oil is that it can circulate and carry the heat
away, so it doesn't have to rely heavily on thermal conduction.

Best wishes,

Chris

I don't think thermal conduction is the culprit. I am pretty sure that the
friction from churning the higher viscosity lubricant raises the
temperature. It is an effect not commonly thought of but you can get an idea
by running a power paint stirrer in thick paint. Essentially all of the
power it takes to spin the stirrer is converted to heat. I had a "bush-hog"
gearbox overheat and ruin the seals because I had put in oil which was too
thick.

Don Young

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:52:01 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:

REMOVE Tom wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:55:12 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:


REMOVE Tom wrote:


Over lubrication is the primary cause of premature bearing failure.
Check out lube recommendations on the bearing or grease manufacturers
web site. Depending on the capacity of your grease gun usually a
couple of shots periodically will suffice.

Is that true? What damage does it do to the bearings? The worst I've
seen is for the excess grease to squirt out and make a mess.

Best wishes,

Chris


Grease is a great insulator - the rollers will push it out of their
path forming a wall which prevents it from dissipating the heat.

Surely this is only going to be a problem in bearings which run at tens
of thousands of rpm?

Best wishes,

Chris

Over greased bearings start heating up at 1500 rpm

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Oct 10, 7:54 pm, Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Grant Erwin wrote:

Christopher Tidy wrote:

Robert Swinney wrote:

I have an even older Wagner 7.5 HP motor with grease fittings on each
end. Grease is a way to keep something oiled without having to tend
to it very often. Think of grease as it was originally . . . oil
absorbed into soap flakes.

Interesting. I never heard that before. I had always assumed that the
first grease was derived from animal fat.

.. soap being of course animal fat boiled up with lye

Good point, Grant. I'd overlooked that.

Does anyone know of a book which describes the process of making grease
from oil and soap flakes? I'd be interested to read about it.

Best wishes,

Chris


Mix and stir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grease_(lubricant)

Thanks, Jim. Is it not possible to end up with a solid by distilling off
all the light fractions from crude oil? Or is that solid just tar, as
opposed to a useful lubricant?

I learnt something interesting.

Best wishes,

Chris

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-10-10, Christopher Tidy wrote:

REMOVE Tom wrote:


[ ... ]


Grease is a great insulator - the rollers will push it out of their
path forming a wall which prevents it from dissipating the heat.

Surely this is only going to be a problem in bearings which run at tens
of thousands of rpm?


That depends on the size of the bearing. let's say for a 1/4"
ID bearing, the balls run at approximately a 1/2" diameter, and get the
SFM for that at 10,000 RPM as a starting point:

1309 SFM

Now -- let's take the shaft diameter up to say 2", and say perhaps
2-1/2" for the diameter of the bearing ball's path:

5208 SFM

And a really serious electric motor with a 6" shaft (you can guess the
horsepower rating if you wish), and probably 8" diameter bearing ball path:

20,943 SFM

I'm thinking a few thousand horsepower for a 6" diameter shaft at 625
rpm, but that's just a guess.

So -- at what speed does the grease migration start to become a problem?

I thought the issue Tom was talking about was the thermal insulating
effect of a thick grease barrier?

Assuming the 1039 SFM as the top acceptable one with the 1/4"
shaft, we get 625 RPM for the maximum speed for the 6" shaft.

And how big *do* electric motor shafts get? (Of course, the
larger ones do run slower to keep from self-disassembly. :-)

Well, I've seen alternators with 12" diameter shafts at a place where I
had a summer job once. But they had plain bearings. Hydrostatic when
starting, hydrodynamic when up to speed. Rumour has it than when the oil
pump is switched on, you can rotate a 90-ton rotor in those bearings by
hand. That's what I was told anyway.

Perhaps your reasoning explains why they don't use roller bearings in
those huge alternators, as they do 3,000 rpm. I just remember being told
that rolling element bearings didn't survive under those conditions.

I've also seen a ship with a half metre diameter propellor shaft
(apparently solid too).

Best wishes,

Chris

Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:52:01 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:


REMOVE Tom wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:55:12 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:



REMOVE Tom wrote:



Over lubrication is the primary cause of premature bearing failure.
Check out lube recommendations on the bearing or grease manufacturers
web site. Depending on the capacity of your grease gun usually a
couple of shots periodically will suffice.

Is that true? What damage does it do to the bearings? The worst I've
seen is for the excess grease to squirt out and make a mess.

Best wishes,

Chris


Grease is a great insulator - the rollers will push it out of their
path forming a wall which prevents it from dissipating the heat.

Surely this is only going to be a problem in bearings which run at tens
of thousands of rpm?

Best wishes,

Chris


Over greased bearings start heating up at 1500 rpm

I've sometimes seen two maximum speeds quoted on bearing data sheets: a
lower speed for grease lubrication and a higher speed for oil
lubrication. I guess the advantage of oil is that it can circulate and
carry the heat away, so it doesn't have to rely heavily on thermal
conduction.

Best wishes,

Chris

clare wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:54:32 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:


Grant Erwin wrote:

Christopher Tidy wrote:


Robert Swinney wrote:


I have an even older Wagner 7.5 HP motor with grease fittings on each
end. Grease is a way to keep something oiled without having to tend
to it very often. Think of grease as it was originally . . . oil
absorbed into soap flakes.



Interesting. I never heard that before. I had always assumed that the
first grease was derived from animal fat.


.. soap being of course animal fat boiled up with lye

Good point, Grant. I'd overlooked that.

Does anyone know of a book which describes the process of making grease

from oil and soap flakes? I'd be interested to read about it.

Best wishes,

Chris

The "soap" isn't necessarily something you would wash with. Lithium
is one "soap" used. So is Sodium, and Barium, as well as Calcium and
aluminum.

All the above are considered "soap" type greases.
I don't know of any grease in common use made from Lye soap (or Ivory
Snow)

Thanks for making that distinction.

Best wishes,

Chris

In article ,
Christopher Tidy wrote:

Surely this is only going to be a problem in bearings which run at tens
of thousands of rpm?

http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff600/fv00563.htm
--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

You're correct. The bearing has to "work harder" and the heat has
nowhere to go. Speeds son't have to be all that great.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:35:10 -0500, "Don Young"
wrote:


"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:52:01 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:


REMOVE Tom wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:55:12 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:



REMOVE Tom wrote:



Over lubrication is the primary cause of premature bearing failure.
Check out lube recommendations on the bearing or grease manufacturers
web site. Depending on the capacity of your grease gun usually a
couple of shots periodically will suffice.

Is that true? What damage does it do to the bearings? The worst I've
seen is for the excess grease to squirt out and make a mess.

Best wishes,

Chris


Grease is a great insulator - the rollers will push it out of their
path forming a wall which prevents it from dissipating the heat.

Surely this is only going to be a problem in bearings which run at tens
of thousands of rpm?

Best wishes,

Chris


Over greased bearings start heating up at 1500 rpm

I've sometimes seen two maximum speeds quoted on bearing data sheets: a
lower speed for grease lubrication and a higher speed for oil lubrication.
I guess the advantage of oil is that it can circulate and carry the heat
away, so it doesn't have to rely heavily on thermal conduction.

Best wishes,

Chris

I don't think thermal conduction is the culprit. I am pretty sure that the
friction from churning the higher viscosity lubricant raises the
temperature. It is an effect not commonly thought of but you can get an idea
by running a power paint stirrer in thick paint. Essentially all of the
power it takes to spin the stirrer is converted to heat. I had a "bush-hog"
gearbox overheat and ruin the seals because I had put in oil which was too
thick.

Don Young

Don Young wrote:
"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...

Gunner wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:52:01 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:



REMOVE Tom wrote:


On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:55:12 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:




REMOVE Tom wrote:




Over lubrication is the primary cause of premature bearing failure.
Check out lube recommendations on the bearing or grease manufacturers
web site. Depending on the capacity of your grease gun usually a
couple of shots periodically will suffice.

Is that true? What damage does it do to the bearings? The worst I've
seen is for the excess grease to squirt out and make a mess.

Best wishes,

Chris


Grease is a great insulator - the rollers will push it out of their
path forming a wall which prevents it from dissipating the heat.

Surely this is only going to be a problem in bearings which run at tens
of thousands of rpm?

Best wishes,

Chris


Over greased bearings start heating up at 1500 rpm

I've sometimes seen two maximum speeds quoted on bearing data sheets: a
lower speed for grease lubrication and a higher speed for oil lubrication.
I guess the advantage of oil is that it can circulate and carry the heat
away, so it doesn't have to rely heavily on thermal conduction.

Best wishes,

Chris


I don't think thermal conduction is the culprit. I am pretty sure that the
friction from churning the higher viscosity lubricant raises the
temperature. It is an effect not commonly thought of but you can get an idea
by running a power paint stirrer in thick paint. Essentially all of the
power it takes to spin the stirrer is converted to heat. I had a "bush-hog"
gearbox overheat and ruin the seals because I had put in oil which was too
thick.

Right, Don. Thanks. Got it now!

Best wishes,

Chris