We have been cleaning up after yet another Hurricane and my wife was
putting back outside a mirror (designer type in frame) outside. So the better
we might look around a corner...

The mirror had a mark in the metal area - and it was mentioned in passing.
I figured the typical blackened mirror from a scratch...

Wrong! - The break in the rear surface (protection layer) was small but in
several areas. A long complex fuzzy deep brick RED
(not black as in silver oxide) upon examination, I discovered it to be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnabar

Mercury! How can that be. Is there not an import regulation ? or export
regulation ?

A hasmat item.

Martin
--
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


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From what I hear, nobody accepts the blame for such things. The
importers just say that they didn't know. And they seem to get away
with it. ----Like the lead paint issues that come up every now and
then. I always thought "caveat emptor" was Latin, but I guess it's
really Chinese.

I think many of us old farts alive today will see China begin to implode
from its own travesties.

I guess all you have to do is to have a container filled with product
over there and it appears at your door here, for about $5000.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------
Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
We have been cleaning up after yet another Hurricane and my wife was
putting back outside a mirror (designer type in frame) outside. So the
better
we might look around a corner...

The mirror had a mark in the metal area - and it was mentioned in passing.
I figured the typical blackened mirror from a scratch...

Wrong! - The break in the rear surface (protection layer) was small but in
several areas. A long complex fuzzy deep brick RED
(not black as in silver oxide) upon examination, I discovered it to be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnabar

Mercury! How can that be. Is there not an import regulation ? or export
regulation ?

A hasmat item.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
We have been cleaning up after yet another Hurricane and my wife was
putting back outside a mirror (designer type in frame) outside. So
the better we might look around a corner...

The mirror had a mark in the metal area - and it was mentioned in
passing. I figured the typical blackened mirror from a scratch...

Wrong! - The break in the rear surface (protection layer) was small
but in several areas. A long complex fuzzy deep brick RED (not black
as in silver oxide) upon examination, I discovered it to be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnabar

Mercury! How can that be. Is there not an import regulation ? or
export regulation ?
There are **NO** regulations in China. Haven't you been reading the
news? They feed their own kids seriously tainted milk! Antifreeze is
used as a sweetener in toothpaste, permitted by LAW!
They use lead-based paint on toys sold to the US.

Where have you been?

Jon

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:33:45 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
We have been cleaning up after yet another Hurricane and my wife was
putting back outside a mirror (designer type in frame) outside. So the
better we might look around a corner...

The mirror had a mark in the metal area - and it was mentioned in
passing. I figured the typical blackened mirror from a scratch...

Wrong! - The break in the rear surface (protection layer) was small but
in several areas. A long complex fuzzy deep brick RED (not black as in
silver oxide) upon examination, I discovered it to be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnabar

Mercury! How can that be. Is there not an import regulation ? or
export regulation ?
There are **NO** regulations in China. Haven't you been reading the
news? They feed their own kids seriously tainted milk! Antifreeze is
used as a sweetener in toothpaste, permitted by LAW! They use lead-based
paint on toys sold to the US.

Where have you been?

Jon

They have regulations, they just ignore them if it'll make money for the
friends of those in high places (see "Bush Administration").

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

In article , Tim Wescott wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:33:45 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

There are **NO** regulations in China. Haven't you been reading the
news? They feed their own kids seriously tainted milk! Antifreeze is
used as a sweetener in toothpaste, permitted by LAW! They use lead-based
paint on toys sold to the US.

Where have you been?

Jon

They have regulations, they just ignore them if it'll make money for the
friends of those in high places (see "Bush Administration").

Conveniently ignoring the fact that it was Bill Clinton, not G.W. Bush, who
ensured that China was awarded "most favored nation" trading status...

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , Tim Wescott
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:33:45 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

There are **NO** regulations in China. Haven't you been reading the
news? They feed their own kids seriously tainted milk! Antifreeze is
used as a sweetener in toothpaste, permitted by LAW! They use lead-based
paint on toys sold to the US.

Where have you been?

Jon

They have regulations, they just ignore them if it'll make money for the
friends of those in high places (see "Bush Administration").


Conveniently ignoring the fact that it was Bill Clinton, not G.W. Bush,
who
ensured that China was awarded "most favored nation" trading status...

Which is why genuine economists consider Clinton to be an economic
conservative. He bought almost the whole program: "free" trade,
deregulation, limited welfare, balanced budgets, inflation-fighting, and so
on. He was a Washington Consensus guy, from NAFTA to the IMF and the World
Bank.

Bush is, too. The difference is that Bush doesn't have a clue about how the
pieces are supposed to fit together. No Rhodes Scholar he, Bush just follows
the economic programs he's told.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:58:09 -0400, the infamous "Ed Huntress"
scrolled the following:


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , Tim Wescott
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:33:45 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

There are **NO** regulations in China. Haven't you been reading the
news? They feed their own kids seriously tainted milk! Antifreeze is
used as a sweetener in toothpaste, permitted by LAW! They use lead-based
paint on toys sold to the US.

Where have you been?

Jon

They have regulations, they just ignore them if it'll make money for the
friends of those in high places (see "Bush Administration").


Conveniently ignoring the fact that it was Bill Clinton, not G.W. Bush,
who
ensured that China was awarded "most favored nation" trading status...

Which is why genuine economists consider Clinton to be an economic
conservative. He bought almost the whole program: "free" trade,
deregulation, limited welfare, balanced budgets, inflation-fighting, and so
on. He was a Washington Consensus guy, from NAFTA to the IMF and the World
Bank.

kaff


Bush is, too. The difference is that Bush doesn't have a clue about how the
pieces are supposed to fit together. No Rhodes Scholar he, Bush just follows
the economic programs he's told.

I'd be willing to bet that most of our Presidents have -not- been
Rhodes Scholars and have pretty much just listened to their economic
advisors all along.

Shrub is Shrub; no further comment is necessary.

================================================== ==========
Help Save the Endangered Plumb Bobs From Becoming Extinct!

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
snip-----

No Rhodes Scholar he,

That may well be the wisest thing you've said, Ed, and you've said one hell
of a lot of wise things.

Harold

Doug Miller wrote:

Conveniently ignoring the fact that it was Bill Clinton, not G.W. Bush, who
ensured that China was awarded "most favored nation" trading status...

I'm conservative, capitalist, right-wing and probably on your side. I hate many things
that Billy Boy and Hillary did . . . BUT The first time I recall China and it's "most
favored nation" status was under ol' Tricky Dicky!

In article fbeaufortcounty, Al Patrick wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Conveniently ignoring the fact that it was Bill Clinton, not G.W. Bush, who
ensured that China was awarded "most favored nation" trading status...

I'm conservative, capitalist, right-wing and probably on your side. I hate
many things
that Billy Boy and Hillary did . . . BUT The first time I recall China and it's
"most
favored nation" status was under ol' Tricky Dicky!

Excuse me, I misspoke; should have read "*permanent* status". Prior to Slick
Willie, China's MFN status had to be renewed periodically (annually, IIRC) to
remain in effect.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Tim Wescott wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:33:45 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

There are **NO** regulations in China. Haven't you been reading the
news? They feed their own kids seriously tainted milk! Antifreeze is
used as a sweetener in toothpaste, permitted by LAW! They use lead-based
paint on toys sold to the US.

Where have you been?

Jon
They have regulations, they just ignore them if it'll make money for the
friends of those in high places (see "Bush Administration").

Conveniently ignoring the fact that it was Bill Clinton, not G.W. Bush, who
ensured that China was awarded "most favored nation" trading status...

I really should have left out the political gouge. Oh well.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
We have been cleaning up after yet another Hurricane and my wife was
putting back outside a mirror (designer type in frame) outside. So the better
we might look around a corner...

The mirror had a mark in the metal area - and it was mentioned in passing.
I figured the typical blackened mirror from a scratch...

Wrong! - The break in the rear surface (protection layer) was small but in
several areas. A long complex fuzzy deep brick RED
(not black as in silver oxide) upon examination, I discovered it to be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnabar

Mercury! How can that be. Is there not an import regulation ? or export
regulation ?

A hasmat item.

Martin

this post makes no sense at all.

Come on guys, this isn't a China thing. We make them that way as well and
have for a very long time. The amount of mercury amalgam used is miniscule
and of no hazard to the environment. There is a lot of China bashing going
on right now, but only some of it is justified and this is not one of them.
These products are purchased by us. I don't see any chinamen with guns to
our heads and until we are willing to work for a hundred dollars a week,
this isn't going to change.
Steve

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
...
We have been cleaning up after yet another Hurricane and my wife was
putting back outside a mirror (designer type in frame) outside. So the
better
we might look around a corner...

The mirror had a mark in the metal area - and it was mentioned in passing.
I figured the typical blackened mirror from a scratch...

Wrong! - The break in the rear surface (protection layer) was small but in
several areas. A long complex fuzzy deep brick RED
(not black as in silver oxide) upon examination, I discovered it to be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnabar

Mercury! How can that be. Is there not an import regulation ? or export
regulation ?

A hasmat item.

Martin
--
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


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On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:22:11 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Come on guys, this isn't a China thing. We make them that way as well and
have for a very long time.

Who's we? I find this hard to believe.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1506387
"Mirrors made of glass backed with a reflective coating of tin amalgam
first came into general use in the sixteenth century. Production
ceased around 1900."

On the other hand, I also find it hard to believe Martin's mirror is
mercury coated. In the absence of more evidence, it seems far more
likely the red is a protective coating rather than cinnabar.

--
Ned Simmons

Red coating doesn't spread in dendrites.

I have a Minor in Geology. Degree in Physics Degree in Theoretical Math.
The back is covered in a rubber coating - that covers up the other coating.

Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Ned Simmons wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:22:11 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Come on guys, this isn't a China thing. We make them that way as well and
have for a very long time.

Who's we? I find this hard to believe.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1506387
"Mirrors made of glass backed with a reflective coating of tin amalgam
first came into general use in the sixteenth century. Production
ceased around 1900."

On the other hand, I also find it hard to believe Martin's mirror is
mercury coated. In the absence of more evidence, it seems far more
likely the red is a protective coating rather than cinnabar.



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Most of the mirrors are made in Mexico at the Silver mine.
There was a rather good show on that the other day on Science channel.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Steve Lusardi wrote:
Come on guys, this isn't a China thing. We make them that way as well and
have for a very long time. The amount of mercury amalgam used is miniscule
and of no hazard to the environment. There is a lot of China bashing going
on right now, but only some of it is justified and this is not one of them.
These products are purchased by us. I don't see any chinamen with guns to
our heads and until we are willing to work for a hundred dollars a week,
this isn't going to change.
Steve

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
...
We have been cleaning up after yet another Hurricane and my wife was
putting back outside a mirror (designer type in frame) outside. So the
better
we might look around a corner...

The mirror had a mark in the metal area - and it was mentioned in passing.
I figured the typical blackened mirror from a scratch...

Wrong! - The break in the rear surface (protection layer) was small but in
several areas. A long complex fuzzy deep brick RED
(not black as in silver oxide) upon examination, I discovered it to be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnabar

Mercury! How can that be. Is there not an import regulation ? or export
regulation ?

A hasmat item.

Martin
--
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


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News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000
Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---




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I could be wrong, but more likely the deposit is a copper layer that
was probably sputtered (PVD?) on. If you deposit some on steel wire
and put it in a torch flame, you should see a green tinge. (Of
course, you need to decide if the risks you perceive warrant the
benefits of satisfying your curiosity.)

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror

Exerpt(s): “….Nowadays, mirrors are often produced by the vacuum
deposition of aluminium (or sometimes silver) directly onto the glass
substrate.… In modern times the mirror substrate is shaped, polished
and cleaned, and is then coated. Glass mirrors are most often coated
with non-toxic silver or aluminium, implemented by a series of
coatings:
tin
silver
chemical activator
copper
paint
The tin is applied because silver will not bond with the glass. The
activator causes the tin/silver to harden. Copper is added for long-
term durability.[13] The paint protects the coating on the back of the
mirror from scratches and other accidental damage….”

I also found another possibility -- red lead oxide (see pg. 4)
http://www.allbusiness.com/nonmetall.../708202-1.html

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:45:20 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

We have been cleaning up after yet another Hurricane and my wife was
putting back outside a mirror (designer type in frame) outside. So the better
we might look around a corner...

The mirror had a mark in the metal area - and it was mentioned in passing.
I figured the typical blackened mirror from a scratch...

Wrong! - The break in the rear surface (protection layer) was small but in
several areas. A long complex fuzzy deep brick RED
(not black as in silver oxide) upon examination, I discovered it to be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnabar

Mercury! How can that be. Is there not an import regulation ? or export
regulation ?

A hasmat item.

Martin
--
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


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From long ago:

Little Willy from his mirror
licked the mercury right off,
thinking in his childish error
it would cure the whooping cough.
At the funeral Willy's mother
smartly said to Mrs Brown,
''Twas a chilly day for Willy
when the mercury went down!'

ERS