"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --

"Jack" wrote in message
...
"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

What a great country! We don't need no stinking universal health care.
Everyone can buy their own insurance if they want to or not. It don't get no
better than that; we got the best damn health care system in the world.

Hawke

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:

"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --


At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:

"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --


At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner

The guy wouldn't owe $400k if the left had it's way...he would have died a long
time ago from lack of treatment.

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that "Tom Gardner"
wrote on Fri, 11 Jul 2008 02:46:20 -0400
in rec.crafts.metalworking :

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:

"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --


At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner

The guy wouldn't owe $400k if the left had it's way...he would have died a long
time ago from lack of treatment.

"And at what a cost savings."

sarcasm off.

pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 02:46:20 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Tom
Gardner" quickly quoth:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:

"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --


At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner

The guy wouldn't owe $400k if the left had it's way...he would have died a long
time ago from lack of treatment.

....and/or misdiagnosis, wrong treatment, or negligence, not to mention
hospital-only totally-antibiotic-resistant strains of ghastly bugs.

Wrong-leg amputations still happen at $7-per-aspirin hospitals.

----------------------------------
VIRTUE...is its own punishment
==================================

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 02:46:20 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Tom
Gardner" quickly quoth:


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:

"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to
--


At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner

The guy wouldn't owe $400k if the left had it's way...he would have died a
long
time ago from lack of treatment.

...and/or misdiagnosis, wrong treatment, or negligence, not to mention
hospital-only totally-antibiotic-resistant strains of ghastly bugs.

Wrong-leg amputations still happen at $7-per-aspirin hospitals.

All three of you are as nutty as fruitcakes. First, Gunner: You didn't seem
to mind that the neighborhood paid your wife's bills, when she had an
emergency and you weren't insured. Even if you pay them back, you seemed
willing to squeeze the system for a loan. And what happens if you get
disabled? Then you've squeezed them for the whole tab.

Tom: The evidence is the opposite. Where they have universal healthcare,
they have vastly better preventive care. In the US, Mt. Sinai hospital in
New York, one of the best diabetes treatment hospitals in the world, can't
get insurance companies to pay for diabetes training and prevention. But the
insurance companies will pay for an amputation. There's free market
healthcare for you.

Larry: The misdiagnoses, etc. are occurring in hospitals that are part of
the *existing*, commercial healthcare system, not some universal healthcare
system. The problem you identify is with a system that runs for commercial
profit rather than for patient care.

What happened to the three of you, did you all start taking the wrong drugs
and get confused? You've got it all backwards.

--
Ed Huntress

On Jul 11, 5:57*am, "Ed Huntress"
All three of you are as nutty as fruitcakes.
What happened to the three of you, did you all start taking the wrong drugs
and get confused? You've got it all backwards.

--
Ed Huntress

I believe that healthcare should be a choice, not something that is
mandatory. I also believe the same for retirement. You should be
able to opt out of Social Security. Maybe there should be a way you
could prove that you providing for yourself and then pay a smaller
amount to a system to help pay for those less fortunate.

As it is we have dead doctors collecting from Medicare. And Social
Security funds being used by Congress to fund other things. My kid is
likely to pay more into Social Security than he will ever collect. A
negative return on his " investment ".

I can not imagine Congress coming up with a good plan for universal
healthcare. Look at their plans for the mortgage industry.

I don't think those three are nutty. Countries that have universal
healthcare have their problems too. A friend of my wife's husband
needed an operation in New Zealand and was scheduled to have it done
in two years ( in Austrailia yet ). Fortunately it was reported in
the papers and some other poor ******* got bumped.

Dan

"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to
--


At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner

The guy wouldn't owe $400k if the left had it's way...he would have died
a
long
time ago from lack of treatment.

...and/or misdiagnosis, wrong treatment, or negligence, not to mention
hospital-only totally-antibiotic-resistant strains of ghastly bugs.

Wrong-leg amputations still happen at $7-per-aspirin hospitals.

All three of you are as nutty as fruitcakes. First, Gunner: You didn't
seem
to mind that the neighborhood paid your wife's bills, when she had an
emergency and you weren't insured. Even if you pay them back, you seemed
willing to squeeze the system for a loan. And what happens if you get
disabled? Then you've squeezed them for the whole tab.

Tom: The evidence is the opposite. Where they have universal healthcare,
they have vastly better preventive care. In the US, Mt. Sinai hospital in
New York, one of the best diabetes treatment hospitals in the world, can't
get insurance companies to pay for diabetes training and prevention. But
the
insurance companies will pay for an amputation. There's free market
healthcare for you.

Larry: The misdiagnoses, etc. are occurring in hospitals that are part of
the *existing*, commercial healthcare system, not some universal
healthcare
system. The problem you identify is with a system that runs for commercial
profit rather than for patient care.

What happened to the three of you, did you all start taking the wrong
drugs
and get confused? You've got it all backwards.

--
Ed Huntress


They're all right wingers aren't they? That explains it. Forget about the
facts, they make up their own to fit their preconceived beliefs. They're the
modern version, although I hate to use that term to describe them, of the
people who kept riding horses and said that those newfangled automobiles
would never catch on. We have a horrible heath care system that can only go
broke at some point yet they can't accept that the national heath care
systems that every other industrial nation has is better. Oh well, in about
ten years, if they are still alive, they will see for themselves that
national health care is far superior to our horse and buggy health care
system. They'll probably still be denying it though.

Hawke

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 02:46:20 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Tom
Gardner" quickly quoth:


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:

"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to
--


At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner

The guy wouldn't owe $400k if the left had it's way...he would have died
a long
time ago from lack of treatment.

...and/or misdiagnosis, wrong treatment, or negligence, not to mention
hospital-only totally-antibiotic-resistant strains of ghastly bugs.

Wrong-leg amputations still happen at $7-per-aspirin hospitals.

All three of you are as nutty as fruitcakes. First, Gunner: You didn't
seem to mind that the neighborhood paid your wife's bills, when she had an
emergency and you weren't insured. Even if you pay them back, you seemed
willing to squeeze the system for a loan. And what happens if you get
disabled? Then you've squeezed them for the whole tab.

Tom: The evidence is the opposite. Where they have universal healthcare,
they have vastly better preventive care. In the US, Mt. Sinai hospital in
New York, one of the best diabetes treatment hospitals in the world, can't
get insurance companies to pay for diabetes training and prevention. But
the insurance companies will pay for an amputation. There's free market
healthcare for you.

Larry: The misdiagnoses, etc. are occurring in hospitals that are part of
the *existing*, commercial healthcare system, not some universal
healthcare system. The problem you identify is with a system that runs for
commercial profit rather than for patient care.

What happened to the three of you, did you all start taking the wrong
drugs and get confused? You've got it all backwards.

--
Ed Huntress


I spend 2 years living in England in the late 1980's. For sniffles, and
sneezes the national health care system was fine. For serious problems good
luck. The company I worked for said their best recruiting tool was their
private health care policy and I had to, had to, had to make sure I
mentioned it when I was interviewing job candidates. Two stories:

1 guy I played basketball with tore cartilage in his knee (at work not on
the court). 1st available appointment with National Health Care system was 6
months. He managed to come up with private insurance somehow and got it
taken care of in about 2 weeks.

A co-worker of mine broke his foot one Saturday. National Health Care would
not even talk to him until Monday and could not look at him for at least 10
days. They well could have had to re-break the foot to set it properly.
Private insurance to the rescue.

I was common knowledge, regularly reported in the paper, that old people
were denied care and it was rationed to the "productive" people. I was
surprised that this did not cause and uproar.

Seeing how the government has mishandled education, social security, and
almost everything else it touches, I would hate to give them the health care
system.

CarlBoyd

Ed Huntress wrote:


What happened to the three of you, did you all start taking the wrong drugs
and get confused?

No, they watch FOX news too much, and believe everything they get fed there.

You've got it all backwards.

The poor schmucks don't know this.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:


"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --



At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner

ROFLMAO!
It seems they coughed for you, sometime back, or had you
conveniently forgotten?

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:55:05 +1200, Jack wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:


"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --



At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner

ROFLMAO!
It seems they coughed for you, sometime back, or had you
conveniently forgotten?

So when you buy a house on time payments, or pay for a TV on
time...other people are being forced to pay for it instead of you?

Does that mean I dont have to send in those pesky payments each month
on my medical bill?

Whoopieeeee!!!





-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:55:05 +1200, Jack wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:


"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to
--



At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner

ROFLMAO!
It seems they coughed for you, sometime back, or had you
conveniently forgotten?

So when you buy a house on time payments, or pay for a TV on
time...other people are being forced to pay for it instead of you?

Does that mean I dont have to send in those pesky payments each month
on my medical bill?

Whoopieeeee!!!

Gunner, a man who doesn't understand the concept of sharing the risk and one
who stands for individualism and taking care of yourself. While at the same
time making society pay for his needs when he can't. Society forks out the
money to pay his medical bills then he makes token payments knowing full
well that he'll never pay off his bills and that sooner or later he'll have
more health problems that he also won't be able to pay for. Yep, he's the
kind you don't want in a for profit health care system. Maybe we can send
him to Mexico for his health care needs.

Hawke

Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:55:05 +1200, Jack wrote:


Gunner wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:



"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --



At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner


ROFLMAO!
It seems they coughed for you, sometime back, or had you
conveniently forgotten?


So when you buy a house on time payments, or pay for a TV on
time...other people are being forced to pay for it instead of you?

In your tiny mind perhaps, however financial institutions exist to sell
money, the markup is called interest. Mind you, how would you ever know?
Chance would be a fine thing, if you were ever able to get time payments
with your financial record.

Does that mean I dont have to send in those pesky payments each month
on my medical bill?

Whoopieeeee!!!

You make monthly payments on a medical bill? Yeah, right!

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:35:20 +1200, Jack wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:55:05 +1200, Jack wrote:


Gunner wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:



"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --



At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner


ROFLMAO!
It seems they coughed for you, sometime back, or had you
conveniently forgotten?


So when you buy a house on time payments, or pay for a TV on
time...other people are being forced to pay for it instead of you?

In your tiny mind perhaps, however financial institutions exist to sell
money, the markup is called interest. Mind you, how would you ever know?
Chance would be a fine thing, if you were ever able to get time payments
with your financial record.

Does that mean I dont have to send in those pesky payments each month
on my medical bill?

Whoopieeeee!!!

You make monthly payments on a medical bill? Yeah, right!

Of course I do. My $27k bill is now down to about $17k there abouts.
Ill have to check.

Why are you surprised? You would have stiffed them?

Gunner


-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --

Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:55:05 +1200, Jack wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:


"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --


At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner

ROFLMAO!
It seems they coughed for you, sometime back, or had you
conveniently forgotten?

So when you buy a house on time payments, or pay for a TV on
time...other people are being forced to pay for it instead of you?

Does that mean I dont have to send in those pesky payments each month
on my medical bill?

Whoopieeeee!!!





--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:22:46
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:

"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --


At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?

You'll notice that Jack hasn't offered even sympathy to the man's
family. Nor even a token five bucks to help with the bills.

Typisch liberal.


pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:38:50 +1200, Jack wrote:

"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

-- Posted on news://freenews.netfront.net - Complaints to --


At least he didn't force his neighborhood, at gun point, to pay his
medical bills.

You really want to be one of the jack booted thugs forcing everyone
around you to cough up the dough for Your Kind... Comrade?
Gunner

Hmmm,

If my memory serves me right, didn't you have the government
(neighborhood?) pay a bunch of your medical bills not too long ago.

You don't seem to mind screwing the government (neighborhood) for money,
as long as the money goes in your pocket.

Truly a man of principal.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Jack wrote:
"Libertarian legacy?
Ron Paul's campaign manager, 49, dies uninsured,
of pneumonia,leaving family $400,000 debt of medical
bills.
What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which
abhors the idea of universal health care."
mo

http://tinyurl.com/5davpe

So this guy freely chooses a life without health insurance (and if he's
good enough to be Ron Paul's campaign manager then it's most certainly a
choice he's made rather than having forced on him), something bad
happens because of his free choice, and this makes all of libertarianism
bad?

That's an interesting world view you have, there.

I would say that it validates the libertarian notion that we all get to
make our choices and suffer (or enjoy) the consequences. Then anyone
who's watching us, and is smart, benefits by learning from our mistakes.

Now that I've ****ed off all the extremists on the left, I'm going to
**** off the rest of the extremists by saying that health care is one of
those things that I don't think should be denied to folks of limited
means just because they don't have lots of $$. If we're going to assume
a moral responsibility for an emergency room to take care of the
indigent at great expense when they get _really_ sick, then it's just
downright stupid of us not to help keep them from getting to that point.
Since I find the notion of refusing to give someone proper emergency
care just because they don't have the resources to pay, I have to
support giving that same someone proper pre-emergency care somehow.

There are many, many things that work very well being handled by a
completely free market. But while I'm not wise enough to say just _how_
health care should be handled, I am convinced that a policy of "no
bucks, no care" is not at all the right way to go.

I will say that Japan's notion of health insurance -- where everyone is
required to have it, and you get subsidized if and only if you're poor
-- makes sense on the surface. I have no clue how well it would
translate to the US culture and legal structure, but what I've heard of
it seems to be good.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html