I have not used my phase converter in a while. When I fired it up the
other day, the main Allen Bradley size 2 starter made a very loud
noise, like a old style 60 Hz door buzzer. Despite that, the converter
ran, but I decided to not use it and investigate.

This is a Size 2 starter starting a 10 HP motor.

So.

What would be the proper troubleshooting procedure here and what is
likely wrong? Any ideas?

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Ignoramus19021 wrote:

I have not used my phase converter in a while. When I fired it up the
other day, the main Allen Bradley size 2 starter made a very loud
noise, like a old style 60 Hz door buzzer. Despite that, the converter
ran, but I decided to not use it and investigate.

This is a Size 2 starter starting a 10 HP motor.

So.

What would be the proper troubleshooting procedure here and what is
likely wrong? Any ideas?


Spiders...

As in a spider or similar bug in the contactor keeping it from fully
seating so it buzzes, but still seating far enough so the contacts
close.

On 2008-06-24, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus19021 wrote:

I have not used my phase converter in a while. When I fired it up the
other day, the main Allen Bradley size 2 starter made a very loud
noise, like a old style 60 Hz door buzzer. Despite that, the converter
ran, but I decided to not use it and investigate.

This is a Size 2 starter starting a 10 HP motor.

So.

What would be the proper troubleshooting procedure here and what is
likely wrong? Any ideas?


Spiders...

As in a spider or similar bug in the contactor keeping it from fully
seating so it buzzes, but still seating far enough so the contacts
close.

Ding dong, I think that we have the right answer. Thanks a lot. I will
try to see if I can blow it out with compressed air. I may put a
mothball there for the future if it does not stink up the garage too
much.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
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On Jun 24, 2:17 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Ignoramus19021 wrote:

I have not used my phase converter in a while. When I fired it up the
other day, the main Allen Bradley size 2 starter made a very loud
noise, like a old style 60 Hz door buzzer. Despite that, the converter
ran, but I decided to not use it and investigate.

This is a Size 2 starter starting a 10 HP motor.

So.

What would be the proper troubleshooting procedure here and what is
likely wrong? Any ideas?

Spiders...

As in a spider or similar bug in the contactor keeping it from fully
seating so it buzzes, but still seating far enough so the contacts
close.

Reminds me of an issue last fall. Corn dryer main blower starter was
doing about the same thing. It would fire and just buzz (this one
wouldn't start the blower). Turned out that there must have been an
Asian beetle under the contacts the first time. Smashed him good, and
it was just hammering on the contacts trying to make a good
connection. It couldn't draw enough juice through the remaining pole
to start the motor, so eventually it would pop the breaker.

Had something similar happen on the pressure pump for the house
water. It's starting to become standard practice for debugging to
check for bugs...

JW

"Ignoramus19021" wrote in message
...
I have not used my phase converter in a while. When I fired it up the
other day, the main Allen Bradley size 2 starter made a very loud
noise, like a old style 60 Hz door buzzer. Despite that, the converter
ran, but I decided to not use it and investigate.

This is a Size 2 starter starting a 10 HP motor.

So.

What would be the proper troubleshooting procedure here and what is
likely wrong? Any ideas?


FWIW, the size 3 contactors on my irrigation well routinely buzz. Not every
time, but often. i just got used to it.

Karl

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:54:27 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:


"Ignoramus19021" wrote in message
m...
I have not used my phase converter in a while. When I fired it up the
other day, the main Allen Bradley size 2 starter made a very loud
noise, like a old style 60 Hz door buzzer. Despite that, the converter
ran, but I decided to not use it and investigate.

This is a Size 2 starter starting a 10 HP motor.

So.

What would be the proper troubleshooting procedure here and what is
likely wrong? Any ideas?


FWIW, the size 3 contactors on my irrigation well routinely buzz. Not every
time, but often. i just got used to it.

Karl

Hey Iggy,

Difference between a "buzz", and a real hard
BUZZZ/SLAM/HAMMER/BANG/SLAMAGAIN is easy to hear.

The first, which it sounds/reads like to me you have, can be just some
accrued dust or similar in between the armature pieces, possible even
a low voltage condition.

But the louder and sometimes scary sound can be due to a loose or
broken lead or cracked StaKon terminal (common on AB stuff) or a bad
self-holding contact.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

"Ignoramus19021" wrote in message
...
On 2008-06-24, Pete C. wrote:
Ding dong, I think that we have the right answer. Thanks a lot. I will
try to see if I can blow it out with compressed air. I may put a
mothball there for the future if it does not stink up the garage too
much.


Moth ball? What do you do with the rest of the moth?

Ivan Vegvary

On 2008-06-24, Brian Lawson wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:54:27 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:


"Ignoramus19021" wrote in message
om...
I have not used my phase converter in a while. When I fired it up the
other day, the main Allen Bradley size 2 starter made a very loud
noise, like a old style 60 Hz door buzzer. Despite that, the converter
ran, but I decided to not use it and investigate.

This is a Size 2 starter starting a 10 HP motor.

So.

What would be the proper troubleshooting procedure here and what is
likely wrong? Any ideas?


FWIW, the size 3 contactors on my irrigation well routinely buzz. Not every
time, but often. i just got used to it.

I do not feel that it is a good thing.


Difference between a "buzz", and a real hard
BUZZZ/SLAM/HAMMER/BANG/SLAMAGAIN is easy to hear.

It is BUUUZZZZZZZZZZ

Like a cheap 60 Hz alarm.

The first, which it sounds/reads like to me you have, can be just some
accrued dust or similar in between the armature pieces, possible even
a low voltage condition.

But the louder and sometimes scary sound can be due to a loose or
broken lead or cracked StaKon terminal (common on AB stuff) or a bad
self-holding contact.

I will look again, try to blow out the crud with compressed air, I
suspect insects at this point as Pete C said.


--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Ignoramus19021 wrote:
I have not used my phase converter in a while. When I fired it up the
other day, the main Allen Bradley size 2 starter made a very loud
noise, like a old style 60 Hz door buzzer. Despite that, the converter
ran, but I decided to not use it and investigate.

This is a Size 2 starter starting a 10 HP motor.

So.

What would be the proper troubleshooting procedure here and what is
likely wrong? Any ideas?

step 1, run to usenet. Skip the part where you examine what's causing the
sound in the first place, and then try to remedy it.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:38:56 -0500, Ignoramus19021
wrote:

SNIP

It is BUUUZZZZZZZZZZ

Like a cheap 60 Hz alarm.

The first, which it sounds/reads like to me you have, can be just some
accrued dust or similar in between the armature pieces, possible even
a low voltage condition.

But the louder and sometimes scary sound can be due to a loose or
broken lead or cracked StaKon terminal (common on AB stuff) or a bad
self-holding contact.

I will look again, try to blow out the crud with compressed air, I
suspect insects at this point as Pete C said.


Hey again Iggy,

The AB stuff is pretty easy and straightforward to take apart for
inspection and cleaning. I doubt that blowing air will do much, but
hey!!

The "60 cycle buzz/hummmm" is caused by the armature pieces not
getting to a full flat contact, or possibly by a (very rare) cracked
shading-coil. The shading-coil is the copper flat buss in the form of
a figure-8 on the fixed armature part.

Other than the noise annoyance of the buzz, it's not really a problem.

Take care.

Brian Lawson.

You are unlikely to succeed in your efforts to upset me.

There is a good reason for it.

i

On 2008-06-24, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ignoramus19021 wrote:
I have not used my phase converter in a while. When I fired it up the
other day, the main Allen Bradley size 2 starter made a very loud
noise, like a old style 60 Hz door buzzer. Despite that, the converter
ran, but I decided to not use it and investigate.

This is a Size 2 starter starting a 10 HP motor.

So.

What would be the proper troubleshooting procedure here and what is
likely wrong? Any ideas?

step 1, run to usenet. Skip the part where you examine what's causing the
sound in the first place, and then try to remedy it.



--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Not trying to be alarmist, but isn't the mothball napthalene? Mightant
that go "bang" when mixed with oxygen in an enclosed space when ignited
by a spark? Probably would take care of any bugs.

Pete Stanaitis
---------------------

Ignoramus19021 wrote:
I may put a
mothball there for the future if it does not stink up the garage too
much.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:33:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:


"Ignoramus19021" wrote in message
m...
On 2008-06-24, Pete C. wrote:
Ding dong, I think that we have the right answer. Thanks a lot. I will
try to see if I can blow it out with compressed air. I may put a
mothball there for the future if it does not stink up the garage too
much.


Moth ball? What do you do with the rest of the moth?

Iggy's apparently one helluva surgeon.

--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:38:56 -0500, Ignoramus19021
wrote:

SNIP

It is BUUUZZZZZZZZZZ

Like a cheap 60 Hz alarm.


The first, which it sounds/reads like to me you have, can be just some
accrued dust or similar in between the armature pieces, possible even
a low voltage condition.

But the louder and sometimes scary sound can be due to a loose or
broken lead or cracked StaKon terminal (common on AB stuff) or a bad
self-holding contact.

I will look again, try to blow out the crud with compressed air, I
suspect insects at this point as Pete C said.



Hey again Iggy,

The AB stuff is pretty easy and straightforward to take apart for
inspection and cleaning. I doubt that blowing air will do much, but
hey!!

The "60 cycle buzz/hummmm" is caused by the armature pieces not
getting to a full flat contact, or possibly by a (very rare) cracked
shading-coil. The shading-coil is the copper flat buss in the form of
a figure-8 on the fixed armature part.

A few years ago while visiting a friend in Florida I was asked bt him to
investigate a buzzing noise from an irrigation pump motor control relay
mounted in a not very well sealed outdoor housing.

The problem was similar to what you suggest, but instead of being
cracked, the shading coil had corroded away, leaving not much more than
a blueish green trace of its former self.

Must have been a lot of humidity inside the housing leading to galvanic
corrosion of the shading coil.

We went to a supply house, bought a new relay, and installed it.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*1014 fathoms per fortnight.


Other than the noise annoyance of the buzz, it's not really a problem.

Take care.

Brian Lawson.