Hey, all, I currently have a Hobart Stickmate 235/160 AC/DC machine
and I am thinking of buying a larger machine; what I'd like is to know
thoughts and opinions about what would be a good machine to get.

I mostly do hobby welding but that may include hours of continuous
welding (I sometimes, rarely, will weld for a couple of hours non-
stop). I build smokers and have also built metal brackets to use to
raise my concrete foundation on my house (and lots of other projects),
and almost all the material I weld on is 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch thick.
Mostly I use 6010 or 6011 rods which are 1/8 inch diameter, although I
have found a really good use for 3/16 inch diameter 6010 rods. I have
also used 5/32 6013 and 7014, and most all of this has been done with
DC at the maximum output of my welder, 160 amps (well, whatever it
puts out when it's cranked up fully, nominally it is 160 amps).

I was in the middle of building 35 brackets to go under my foundation
last year when, POP, my little Hobart went from humming along to being
noisy as hell and it's never gotten quiet again. I'm not sure what
changed, maybe an adjustment screw on the slider in the thing fell
out, who knows? It gets hotter than hell (even with a 120 V, 112 CFM
fan scabbed over a hole immediately over the rectifier in the thing).
I don't use it all day any day, but, from time to time, I will crank
it up and burn rods for, literally, a couple of hours. I do a fair
amount of welding in the 90-120 amp range with 6011 rods that are 1/8
inch diameter, and also some 7018, 6013, 7014 rods, all at 1/8 inch
diameter at various amperages, but never anything below 75 amps.

I feel I'm asking too much, at the higher output, from my little
machine and would like a larger one. I live in rural (sort of, we
have a 24/7 Supercenter about 4 miles from me; how rural can it be?)
north central Texas and my power feed from the grid is what we call
220 VAC, 60 Hz (but, with my RMS meter is really 250 VAC). Whatever
it is, it is single phase and not strung between two of the grid's
phases (208, I believe) as I have spoken to the utility to be sure.
My shop is fed off a 100 amp breaker from the power pole and has a 100
amp main breaker in the power panel/breaker box.

So, I started looking at the Lincoln Idealarc 250 with PFC (power
factor correction) it can draw as much as 68 amps at 230 VAC supply (I
presume that is what I have here as it is the closest of the voltages
I've seen to my voltage). I looked at a comparable (sort of) Miller
unit the Dialarc 250 AC/DC which, with PFC, gets me down to 60 amps
draw at less than its rated max output (225 amps output, DC).

It seems both could do what I need and run on my available power,
although, my outlets in the shop are 50 amp, so I may have to change
receptacles and breakers (or, at least breakers). But, the Miller rep
was at the shop I stopped at and he gave me the sales pitch on the
Shopmate 300 DX. Skip most of the tedious details and it seems like
it's the equivalent of a giant switch-mode power supply (like in our
computers). It draws less amps at max output (57 amps) and has a
higher duty cycle at 60% at 250 amps. It weighs about half as much as
the Miller or Lincoln machines I mentioned previously (testament to
that it probably is a switch-mode power supply), and can support TIG
if I choose to do that, and, according to the rep (who would probably
sell his mother for a nickel so I'm not hanging on his every word
here), it has arc characteristics that are similar to a three-phase
machine (which I've never used so how would I know three-phase
characteristics from meatloaf?). It can also support MIG, but since I
have a Millermatic 210 that I'm happy with for my light-weight stuff
that is not an attraction for me.

Anyway, since any one of these machines is gonna set me back about
2,300 bucks I'd like to see what thoughts and opinions and experiences
you folks might be able to pass on to help me make a better decision;
I'd like to not spend that kind of money and hate it a few months
later.

Thank you for your time and information.

--HC

"HC" wrote in message
...
Hey, all, I currently have a Hobart Stickmate 235/160 AC/DC machine
and I am thinking of buying a larger machine; what I'd like is to know
thoughts and opinions about what would be a good machine to get.

I mostly do hobby welding but that may include hours of continuous
welding (I sometimes, rarely, will weld for a couple of hours non-
stop). I build smokers and have also built metal brackets to use to
raise my concrete foundation on my house (and lots of other projects),
and almost all the material I weld on is 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch thick.
Mostly I use 6010 or 6011 rods which are 1/8 inch diameter, although I
have found a really good use for 3/16 inch diameter 6010 rods. I have
also used 5/32 6013 and 7014, and most all of this has been done with
DC at the maximum output of my welder, 160 amps (well, whatever it
puts out when it's cranked up fully, nominally it is 160 amps).

I was in the middle of building 35 brackets to go under my foundation
last year when, POP, my little Hobart went from humming along to being
noisy as hell and it's never gotten quiet again. I'm not sure what
changed, maybe an adjustment screw on the slider in the thing fell
out, who knows? It gets hotter than hell (even with a 120 V, 112 CFM
fan scabbed over a hole immediately over the rectifier in the thing).
I don't use it all day any day, but, from time to time, I will crank
it up and burn rods for, literally, a couple of hours. I do a fair
amount of welding in the 90-120 amp range with 6011 rods that are 1/8
inch diameter, and also some 7018, 6013, 7014 rods, all at 1/8 inch
diameter at various amperages, but never anything below 75 amps.

I feel I'm asking too much, at the higher output, from my little
machine and would like a larger one. I live in rural (sort of, we
have a 24/7 Supercenter about 4 miles from me; how rural can it be?)
north central Texas and my power feed from the grid is what we call
220 VAC, 60 Hz (but, with my RMS meter is really 250 VAC). Whatever
it is, it is single phase and not strung between two of the grid's
phases (208, I believe) as I have spoken to the utility to be sure.
My shop is fed off a 100 amp breaker from the power pole and has a 100
amp main breaker in the power panel/breaker box.

So, I started looking at the Lincoln Idealarc 250 with PFC (power
factor correction) it can draw as much as 68 amps at 230 VAC supply (I
presume that is what I have here as it is the closest of the voltages
I've seen to my voltage). I looked at a comparable (sort of) Miller
unit the Dialarc 250 AC/DC which, with PFC, gets me down to 60 amps
draw at less than its rated max output (225 amps output, DC).

It seems both could do what I need and run on my available power,
although, my outlets in the shop are 50 amp, so I may have to change
receptacles and breakers (or, at least breakers). But, the Miller rep
was at the shop I stopped at and he gave me the sales pitch on the
Shopmate 300 DX. Skip most of the tedious details and it seems like
it's the equivalent of a giant switch-mode power supply (like in our
computers). It draws less amps at max output (57 amps) and has a
higher duty cycle at 60% at 250 amps. It weighs about half as much as
the Miller or Lincoln machines I mentioned previously (testament to
that it probably is a switch-mode power supply), and can support TIG
if I choose to do that, and, according to the rep (who would probably
sell his mother for a nickel so I'm not hanging on his every word
here), it has arc characteristics that are similar to a three-phase
machine (which I've never used so how would I know three-phase
characteristics from meatloaf?). It can also support MIG, but since I
have a Millermatic 210 that I'm happy with for my light-weight stuff
that is not an attraction for me.

Anyway, since any one of these machines is gonna set me back about
2,300 bucks I'd like to see what thoughts and opinions and experiences
you folks might be able to pass on to help me make a better decision;
I'd like to not spend that kind of money and hate it a few months
later.

Thank you for your time and information.

--HC

From what you say, the machines you mentioned would do the job. If you were
to be welding all day on thick plate, I'd get a heavier one. Otherwise a
250 or 300 would do the job, and are available used all over. I am a fan of
buying more than one needs for those times when you need a lot of power,
which is only occasionally. At all the other times, the machine is welding
well within its limits, so one is not putting a big load on it. I would
make one suggestion, though, and that would be to learn to do 7018 rods, as
those rods will give more strength for the same amperage.

Steve

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:31:57 -0700 (PDT), HC wrote:


So, I started looking at the Lincoln Idealarc 250 with PFC (power
factor correction) it can draw as much as 68 amps at 230 VAC supply (I
presume that is what I have here as it is the closest of the voltages
I've seen to my voltage). I looked at a comparable (sort of) Miller
unit the Dialarc 250 AC/DC which, with PFC, gets me down to 60 amps
draw at less than its rated max output (225 amps output, DC).


Two choices as you see...transformer based or inverter based.

Transformer machines are heavy, bulky, a bit more power hungry than
inverters.

They are also virtually bullet proof and generally easy to keep
running over many years, maximizing your investment

Inverters are smaller, lighter, use less power.
They are also hideously expensive to repair, tend to be far far less
reliable than transformer machines

I dabble in buying/selling welding machines, mostly as a hobby and to
keep upgrading my machines.

I seldom find an inverter machine more than 3 yrs old, that hasnt been
smoked at least once, but I find 25-30 yr old transformer machines
that put out as sweet an arc as they did when new, with no issues ever
noted.

I own both Red and Blue. My standard stick welder, which lives under
the welding table, is a 20 yr old Miller DialArc 250 AC/DC.

It spent much of its life on high rise building construction sites.
The case had been smashed, hammered back to shape, smashed again etc
etc..and it still burns everything I feed it, with a marvelous arc.

Its been filled with a hornets nest, and lives outside, under a table.

I did have one problem with it..turning it on once caused the breakers
to blow, a bright flash and the smell of burning meat. Seems a
rattlesnake had crawled up inside to hunt the nest of mice and got
across the line terminals in its haste to slither away from the now
turning fan.

I cleaned out the snake parts, the mouse nest, put some 1/4" mesh
across some openings and have been using it ever since with no issues.


Gunner, who pickes up his 400amp Miller Trailblazer 55G multiprocess
Continental gasoline powered 1700lb welder, tommorow morning

On Jun 19, 12:45 am, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:
"HC" wrote in message

...



Hey, all, I currently have a Hobart Stickmate 235/160 AC/DC machine
and I am thinking of buying a larger machine; what I'd like is to know
thoughts and opinions about what would be a good machine to get.

I mostly do hobby welding but that may include hours of continuous
welding (I sometimes, rarely, will weld for a couple of hours non-
stop). I build smokers and have also built metal brackets to use to
raise my concrete foundation on my house (and lots of other projects),
and almost all the material I weld on is 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch thick.
Mostly I use 6010 or 6011 rods which are 1/8 inch diameter, although I
have found a really good use for 3/16 inch diameter 6010 rods. I have
also used 5/32 6013 and 7014, and most all of this has been done with
DC at the maximum output of my welder, 160 amps (well, whatever it
puts out when it's cranked up fully, nominally it is 160 amps).

I was in the middle of building 35 brackets to go under my foundation
last year when, POP, my little Hobart went from humming along to being
noisy as hell and it's never gotten quiet again. I'm not sure what
changed, maybe an adjustment screw on the slider in the thing fell
out, who knows? It gets hotter than hell (even with a 120 V, 112 CFM
fan scabbed over a hole immediately over the rectifier in the thing).
I don't use it all day any day, but, from time to time, I will crank
it up and burn rods for, literally, a couple of hours. I do a fair
amount of welding in the 90-120 amp range with 6011 rods that are 1/8
inch diameter, and also some 7018, 6013, 7014 rods, all at 1/8 inch
diameter at various amperages, but never anything below 75 amps.

I feel I'm asking too much, at the higher output, from my little
machine and would like a larger one. I live in rural (sort of, we
have a 24/7 Supercenter about 4 miles from me; how rural can it be?)
north central Texas and my power feed from the grid is what we call
220 VAC, 60 Hz (but, with my RMS meter is really 250 VAC). Whatever
it is, it is single phase and not strung between two of the grid's
phases (208, I believe) as I have spoken to the utility to be sure.
My shop is fed off a 100 amp breaker from the power pole and has a 100
amp main breaker in the power panel/breaker box.

So, I started looking at the Lincoln Idealarc 250 with PFC (power
factor correction) it can draw as much as 68 amps at 230 VAC supply (I
presume that is what I have here as it is the closest of the voltages
I've seen to my voltage). I looked at a comparable (sort of) Miller
unit the Dialarc 250 AC/DC which, with PFC, gets me down to 60 amps
draw at less than its rated max output (225 amps output, DC).

It seems both could do what I need and run on my available power,
although, my outlets in the shop are 50 amp, so I may have to change
receptacles and breakers (or, at least breakers). But, the Miller rep
was at the shop I stopped at and he gave me the sales pitch on the
Shopmate 300 DX. Skip most of the tedious details and it seems like
it's the equivalent of a giant switch-mode power supply (like in our
computers). It draws less amps at max output (57 amps) and has a
higher duty cycle at 60% at 250 amps. It weighs about half as much as
the Miller or Lincoln machines I mentioned previously (testament to
that it probably is a switch-mode power supply), and can support TIG
if I choose to do that, and, according to the rep (who would probably
sell his mother for a nickel so I'm not hanging on his every word
here), it has arc characteristics that are similar to a three-phase
machine (which I've never used so how would I know three-phase
characteristics from meatloaf?). It can also support MIG, but since I
have a Millermatic 210 that I'm happy with for my light-weight stuff
that is not an attraction for me.

Anyway, since any one of these machines is gonna set me back about
2,300 bucks I'd like to see what thoughts and opinions and experiences
you folks might be able to pass on to help me make a better decision;
I'd like to not spend that kind of money and hate it a few months
later.

Thank you for your time and information.

--HC

From what you say, the machines you mentioned would do the job. If you were
to be welding all day on thick plate, I'd get a heavier one. Otherwise a
250 or 300 would do the job, and are available used all over. I am a fan of
buying more than one needs for those times when you need a lot of power,
which is only occasionally. At all the other times, the machine is welding
well within its limits, so one is not putting a big load on it. I would
make one suggestion, though, and that would be to learn to do 7018 rods, as
those rods will give more strength for the same amperage.

Steve

Thanks for your response. I hadn't thought about looking for one
used; I'll do that.

--HC

On Jun 19, 6:14 am, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:31:57 -0700 (PDT), HC wrote:

So, I started looking at the Lincoln Idealarc 250 with PFC (power
factor correction) it can draw as much as 68 amps at 230 VAC supply (I
presume that is what I have here as it is the closest of the voltages
I've seen to my voltage). I looked at a comparable (sort of) Miller
unit the Dialarc 250 AC/DC which, with PFC, gets me down to 60 amps
draw at less than its rated max output (225 amps output, DC).

Two choices as you see...transformer based or inverter based.

Transformer machines are heavy, bulky, a bit more power hungry than
inverters.

They are also virtually bullet proof and generally easy to keep
running over many years, maximizing your investment

Inverters are smaller, lighter, use less power.
They are also hideously expensive to repair, tend to be far far less
reliable than transformer machines

I dabble in buying/selling welding machines, mostly as a hobby and to
keep upgrading my machines.

I seldom find an inverter machine more than 3 yrs old, that hasnt been
smoked at least once, but I find 25-30 yr old transformer machines
that put out as sweet an arc as they did when new, with no issues ever
noted.

I own both Red and Blue. My standard stick welder, which lives under
the welding table, is a 20 yr old Miller DialArc 250 AC/DC.

It spent much of its life on high rise building construction sites.
The case had been smashed, hammered back to shape, smashed again etc
etc..and it still burns everything I feed it, with a marvelous arc.

Its been filled with a hornets nest, and lives outside, under a table.

I did have one problem with it..turning it on once caused the breakers
to blow, a bright flash and the smell of burning meat. Seems a
rattlesnake had crawled up inside to hunt the nest of mice and got
across the line terminals in its haste to slither away from the now
turning fan.

I cleaned out the snake parts, the mouse nest, put some 1/4" mesh
across some openings and have been using it ever since with no issues.

Gunner, who pickes up his 400amp Miller Trailblazer 55G multiprocess
Continental gasoline powered 1700lb welder, tommorow morning

Gunner, thank you for your reply. I understand the "yeah, it's a
brick of solid steel and it's not sexy but it *works* and it *keeps
working*" take on the larger units and I like that. It's good to know
about about the inverter machines. When you say that they have been
smoked, what in them blew? Are these user-serviceable/replaceable
parts?

Hope you're having fun with the Trailblazer.

--HC

--Ask Ernie over at sci.engr.joining.welding

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : "Hold on! we're passing
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : through the moronosphere!"
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---