greetings, i am planning on making a small table for our deck and i
would like to use a mosaic tile pattern for the table top so i thought
that i would make a pan out of 16 ga., turn it up side down and tack it
to the inside of the table frame, therefore giving me a flat surface to
put the tile in, and keep it flush with the top of the frame. now i am
wondering what kind of adhesive would work best to affix the tile(3/4
inch tiles sheets with a mesh backing) to the 16 ga. the frame will be
made if 3/4 square tubing that i will have powdercoated

any comments would be appreciated,cj

cj wrote:
greetings, i am planning on making a small table for our deck and i
would like to use a mosaic tile pattern for the table top so i thought
that i would make a pan out of 16 ga., turn it up side down and tack it
to the inside of the table frame, therefore giving me a flat surface to
put the tile in, and keep it flush with the top of the frame. now i am
wondering what kind of adhesive would work best to affix the tile(3/4
inch tiles sheets with a mesh backing) to the 16 ga. the frame will be
made if 3/4 square tubing that i will have powdercoated

any comments would be appreciated,cj

I'd use a silicone based adhesive as the temp gradient on the metal may
prove to bee too much re expand-contract for a "harder adhesive" ...

God Bless Tom in Belle Vernon PA

garigue wrote:
cj wrote:

greetings, i am planning on making a small table for our deck and i
would like to use a mosaic tile pattern for the table top so i thought
that i would make a pan out of 16 ga., turn it up side down and tack
it to the inside of the table frame, therefore giving me a flat
surface to put the tile in, and keep it flush with the top of the
frame. now i am wondering what kind of adhesive would work best to
affix the tile(3/4 inch tiles sheets with a mesh backing) to the 16
ga. the frame will be made if 3/4 square tubing that i will have
powdercoated

any comments would be appreciated,cj

I'd use a silicone based adhesive as the temp gradient on the metal may
prove to bee too much re expand-contract for a "harder adhesive" ...

God Bless Tom in Belle Vernon PA

thanks tom, can you recommend any products?
cj

On Sat, 17 May 2008 14:01:41 -0400, cj wrote:

greetings, i am planning on making a small table for our deck and i
would like to use a mosaic tile pattern for the table top so i thought
that i would make a pan out of 16 ga., turn it up side down and tack it
to the inside of the table frame, therefore giving me a flat surface to
put the tile in, and keep it flush with the top of the frame. now i am
wondering what kind of adhesive would work best to affix the tile(3/4
inch tiles sheets with a mesh backing) to the 16 ga. the frame will be
made if 3/4 square tubing that i will have powdercoated

Make the pan or recess deep enough to allow a layer of Hardibacker
(or similar cement board) under the tile. Then you can use thinset
on the tile side and silicone (as garigue suggested) or some other
adhesive on the metal side.

Cement board is available 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2" thick.
1/2" 3'x5' costs about $10.

-jiw

cj wrote:

any comments would be appreciated,cj

I'd go with with James suggestion. Make sure you don't leave a path for
water to get under the backer board and between the metal if in a freezing
location.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

James Waldby wrote:

On Sat, 17 May 2008 14:01:41 -0400, cj wrote:


greetings, i am planning on making a small table for our deck and i
would like to use a mosaic tile pattern for the table top so i thought
that i would make a pan out of 16 ga., turn it up side down and tack it
to the inside of the table frame, therefore giving me a flat surface to
put the tile in, and keep it flush with the top of the frame. now i am
wondering what kind of adhesive would work best to affix the tile(3/4
inch tiles sheets with a mesh backing) to the 16 ga. the frame will be
made if 3/4 square tubing that i will have powdercoated


Make the pan or recess deep enough to allow a layer of Hardibacker
(or similar cement board) under the tile. Then you can use thinset
on the tile side and silicone (as garigue suggested) or some other
adhesive on the metal side.

Cement board is available 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2" thick.
1/2" 3'x5' costs about $10.

-jiw

thanks for the suggestion james. so,the hardibacker board will affix
well to the 16 ga. with just an off the shelf tube of silicon? also,
would the powdercoat surface be to smooth(or undesirable) for the
silicone to stick to?
cj

On May 17, 1:01 pm, cj wrote:
greetings, i am planning on making a small table for our deck and i
would like to use a mosaic tile pattern for the table top so i thought
that i would make a pan out of 16 ga., turn it up side down and tack it
to the inside of the table frame, therefore giving me a flat surface to
put the tile in, and keep it flush with the top of the frame. now i am
wondering what kind of adhesive would work best to affix the tile(3/4
inch tiles sheets with a mesh backing) to the 16 ga. the frame will be
made if 3/4 square tubing that i will have powdercoated

any comments would be appreciated,cj

I'd be a bit leery that the first time the table was moved the pan
would flex and cause the tiles to pop loose, or at least crack
allowing moisture a path to the steel. I believe I'd glue the tile to
a backer and just set it in the sheetmetal pan instead of glueing the
whole works down

James Waldby wrote:
On Sat, 17 May 2008 14:01:41 -0400, cj wrote:

greetings, i am planning on making a small table for our deck and i
would like to use a mosaic tile pattern for the table top so i thought
that i would make a pan out of 16 ga., turn it up side down and tack it
to the inside of the table frame, therefore giving me a flat surface to
put the tile in, and keep it flush with the top of the frame. now i am
wondering what kind of adhesive would work best to affix the tile(3/4
inch tiles sheets with a mesh backing) to the 16 ga. the frame will be
made if 3/4 square tubing that i will have powdercoated

Make the pan or recess deep enough to allow a layer of Hardibacker
(or similar cement board) under the tile. Then you can use thinset
on the tile side and silicone (as garigue suggested) or some other
adhesive on the metal side.

Cement board is available 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2" thick.
1/2" 3'x5' costs about $10.

I have been making some metal framed tile tables for indoor use:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...tile_table.jpg

I agree with James, on the hardibacker or cement board under the tile.

For my indoor tables, I used 3/8" particle board. I welded sheetmetal
ears on the inside of the frame and screwed the particle board to the
ears with short sheetmetal screws. I used the Locktite construction
adhesive to mount the tiles to the particle board.

For outdoor use, the particleboard would fall apart quickly, while the
Hardibacker or cement board would not. The ear arrangement would be a
good thing in this situation too because it would not leave any
significant space for water to accumulate.

The ears were made of 16 gauge sheetmetal with a 1/8" right angle bend
along one edge for welding to. They are about 3" long and about 1" for
mounting the backing to.

I used powdercoat, but I don't know how it holds up to UV.

Something to watch out for - some types of tile are not very consistant
in their sizes. When you design the frame, measure some of the tiles
beforehand to get an idea how consitant the tile dimensions are.

Good Luck,
BobH

cj wrote:


James Waldby wrote:

On Sat, 17 May 2008 14:01:41 -0400, cj wrote:


greetings, i am planning on making a small table for our deck and i
would like to use a mosaic tile pattern for the table top so i thought
that i would make a pan out of 16 ga., turn it up side down and tack it
to the inside of the table frame, therefore giving me a flat surface to
put the tile in, and keep it flush with the top of the frame. now i am
wondering what kind of adhesive would work best to affix the tile(3/4
inch tiles sheets with a mesh backing) to the 16 ga. the frame will be
made if 3/4 square tubing that i will have powdercoated



Make the pan or recess deep enough to allow a layer of Hardibacker
(or similar cement board) under the tile. Then you can use thinset on
the tile side and silicone (as garigue suggested) or some other
adhesive on the metal side.

Cement board is available 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2" thick.
1/2" 3'x5' costs about $10.

-jiw


thanks for the suggestion james. so,the hardibacker board will affix
well to the 16 ga. with just an off the shelf tube of silicon? also,
would the powdercoat surface be to smooth(or undesirable) for the
silicone to stick to?
cj


Silicone is not really an adhesive.
Although it will hold a little bit.

Go to the Home Despot and check out the adhesives in a tube.
Liquid Nail, PL-1, etc.

MUCH better adhesives.

The PL-1 in particular stays "flexible" over time.
Ideal for what you are doing.


Richard

--
(remove the X to email)

Now just why the HELL do I have to press 1 for English?
John Wayne

On Sat, 17 May 2008 14:01:41 -0400, cj wrote:

greetings, i am planning on making a small table for our deck and i
would like to use a mosaic tile pattern for the table top so i thought
that i would make a pan out of 16 ga., turn it up side down and tack it
to the inside of the table frame, therefore giving me a flat surface to
put the tile in, and keep it flush with the top of the frame. now i am
wondering what kind of adhesive would work best to affix the tile(3/4
inch tiles sheets with a mesh backing) to the 16 ga. the frame will be
made if 3/4 square tubing that i will have powdercoated

any comments would be appreciated,cj

I have to agree with the majority - you don't want the bottom layer
of an outside table to be a steel pan. It's going to collect all the
spills and rainwater and rust out in a big hurry.

I would use two layers of cement backer-board held together with
construction adhesive - make the two sheets to fit the table, put the
bottom one on a dead flat surface, place adhesive between the two
sheets (even pattern of big caulking gun beads on the bottom sheet),
place the top sheet on top and get them lined up, then clamp them
together with a great big pile of concrete blocks for the glue to cure
for two or three days.

The table top really doesn't need to be fastened to the steel frame,
gravity will do most of the work - you could glue it in with a thin
bead of adhesive where it sits on the frame, as long as you can get in
with a shop knife to cut the bond loose. You want to be able to take
it apart easily, because the steel will need painting every few years.

Then you can drop the cured backer into the table frame and finish
it by tiling with mastic tile adhesive - you can use thin-set mortar,
but the odds are higher that it will come apart and need reworking
after a few years. Any flexing and thin-set will crumble, where a
mastic adhesive bond will give a little.

And grout the tiles to finish.

This way when (not if) it gets wet the water that gets past the
grout or the caulking around the edges won't collect in the table top
'sandwich', the water will drain through and the backerboard will dry
out in the sun.

-- Bruce --

"cj" wrote in message
...
greetings, i am planning on making a small table for our deck and i would
like to use a mosaic tile pattern for the table top so i thought that i
would make a pan out of 16 ga., turn it up side down and tack it to the
inside of the table frame, therefore giving me a flat surface to put the
tile in, and keep it flush with the top of the frame. now i am wondering
what kind of adhesive would work best to affix the tile(3/4 inch tiles
sheets with a mesh backing) to the 16 ga. the frame will be made if 3/4
square tubing that i will have powdercoated

any comments would be appreciated,cj

My daughter and I were working on a similar table yesterday. The table came
with the house when we moved in. It appears to be commercially made. It
has a sheet metal pan about an inch deep that was filled with concrete, tile
was set on the concrete It was much abbused but structurally sound. It is
heavily galvanized and has been outside in the rain and humidity in Central
Florida for the 17 years I have been here with NO rust. We had previously
removed the old tile and concrete, and yesterday's effort was to mix up 2
bags of concrete mix and apply. We crowned the surface slightly (1/8" in
30" span) so that rain will run off. We will apply the tile with thinset
mortor and seal the grout.

With out the galvanizing I would worry about rust as other folks have
pointed out.

Carl Boyd