I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.

for details see
http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTo...s%20Shaper.pdf

Some specific question for the group:

#1 -- Is there any place still selling replacement parts?

#2 -- I need tool holders. The American style lathe tool holders
will fit, but is the carbide style with 0 degree built in back
rake or the regular w/ 15 degree (?) better for shaper use? No
HD production shaping projected, just hobby/home use.

#3 -- How [well] does a lathe cut-off [parting off] tool holder
work for a slotter? Enco has these on sale
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMPI
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...TEM=RW250-1774
that looks like they should work.
Any one tried this?

Also the "correct" size holder [3/8 wide] takes a 3/32X5/8 blade,
which are available, but for lathe work I have had better result
with the parallel T shaped blades. The problem is that these
don't seem to be available in the 3/32X5/8 size to fit the
holder. Anyone used the H style blades in a shaper and if so is
there enough difference in performance to bother with? Again
production speed is not important, but ease of set up and use is.

The old shaper books show the use of "goose neck" tools.
Armstrong still makes a "goo sneck" cut-off tool holder [83-213 @
165$US, wrench and one blade included] that will fit, but the
price makes my socks roll up and down.
http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalo...p?groupID=1176
Anybody tried one of these, and if so is there any difference for
home/hobby use? Any alternative suppliers or used?

I am also looking for both belts guards [left and right side],
the left side "door," the 3/8 square drive "crank" for table
setting, stroke adjustment, etc., the elusive Armstrong #39 multi
position tool holder [or equivalent] and a small swivel shaper
vise.

If anyone has and uses the multi position tool holder, is it
worth the effort/cost to locate, or will a left/right lathe tool
holder work just about as well?

FWIW - I got the shaper from Ron Moore of Oklahoma City. If you
are looking for an older machine, parts for an older machine, or
tooling for an older machine, drop him an email. Nice person to
do business with. FWIW -- he may be able to
give Gunner a run for the money about who has the most "stuff."

Thanks for any leads, information or advise.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On May 16, 12:11*am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.

for details seehttp://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/techman/Atlas%20Shaper.pdf

Some specific question for the group:

#1 -- Is there any place still selling replacement parts?

#2 -- I need tool holders. *The American style lathe tool holders
will fit, but is the carbide style with 0 degree built in back
rake or the regular w/ 15 degree (?) better for shaper use? *No
HD production shaping projected, just hobby/home use.

#3 -- How [well] does a lathe cut-off [parting off] tool holder
work for a slotter? *Enco has these on salehttp://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=RW250-1774&PMPANO=0437767&PM...http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...TEM=RW250-1774
that looks like they should work.
Any one tried this?

Also the "correct" size holder [3/8 wide] takes a 3/32X5/8 blade,
which are available, but for lathe work I have had better result
with the parallel T shaped blades. *The problem is that these
don't seem to be available in the 3/32X5/8 size to fit the
holder. *Anyone used the H style blades in a shaper and if so is
there enough difference in performance to bother with? *Again
production speed is not important, but ease of set up and use is.

The old shaper books show the use of "goose neck" tools.
Armstrong still makes a "goo sneck" cut-off tool holder [83-213 @
165$US, wrench and one blade included] that will fit, but the
price makes my socks roll up and down.http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalo...p?groupID=1176
Anybody tried one of these, and if so is there any difference for
home/hobby use? *Any alternative suppliers or used?

I am also looking for both belts guards [left and right side],
the left side "door," the 3/8 square drive "crank" for table
setting, stroke adjustment, etc., the elusive Armstrong #39 multi
position tool holder [or equivalent] and a small swivel shaper
vise.

If anyone has and uses the multi position tool holder, is it
worth the effort/cost to locate, or will a left/right lathe tool
holder work just about as well? *

FWIW - I got the shaper from Ron Moore of Oklahoma City. *If you
are looking for an older machine, parts for an older machine, or
tooling for an older machine, drop him an email. *Nice person to
do business with. *FWIW -- he may be able to
give Gunner a run for the money about who has the most "stuff."

Thanks for any leads, information or advise.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

I've got a shaper, but not an Atlas. I do know that Clausing can
still supply some parts for the Atlas lathes and mills, don't know
about the shapers. There was a guy selling reproduction cast belt
guards and some other parts on eBay. The Atlas newsgroup should be a
help.

I rarely use toolholders in the shaper. You don't have to worry about
tool height, so holding a large tool bit in the toolpost works fine.
If you want to use a toolholder, either of the styles are fine - just
grind the bit to get the rake angle you want.

The toolholders that are handy are the one that allows you to set the
tool bit at different angles and the one that takes a boring bar for
use in cutting internal keyways or splines. The former is handy for
cutting T slots, dovetails and such. You can get a more rigid setup
than the "boring bar holder" by making a toolpost-type holder that
will hold the bar directly. Both of these toolholders are, as you
feared, pricey. Like shapers themselves - the big ones can go dirt
cheap, but the small ones often sell very high.

The right and left hand toolholders will do almost anything you need,
except maybe get under a T slot. If you need it, you can make one of
the adjustable holders.

Carbide bits are not recommended. They'll chip, as you're always
taking an interrupted cut with a shaper.

I've used a cutoff tool only a couple of times in the shaper. Wasn't
crazy about it. It has to re-enter the slot with every stroke, and
can bang on the edges when it does.

Shapers are a great lot of fun. Just don't get lulled into
carelessness by their slow speed - they are one of the most dangerous
machines in the shop. You'll want to clean off the chips or check the
nice surface with your finger between strokes. Your finger won't even
slow it down. Oh, and those chips are hot.

Welcome to the club. We'll teach you the secret handshake after one
year, as long as you still have most of your fingers.

John Martin

F. George McDuffee wrote:
I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.

for details see
http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTo...s%20Shaper.pdf

Some specific question for the group:

#1 -- Is there any place still selling replacement parts?

Try Joe at Plaza tools. Try Clausing.

#2 -- I need tool holders. The American style lathe tool holders
will fit, but is the carbide style with 0 degree built in back
rake or the regular w/ 15 degree (?) better for shaper use? No
HD production shaping projected, just hobby/home use.

The zero rake tool holders are better, but for light use, the HSS rake
tools will do. If you are nervous about them digging in, run the tool
holder backwards, and grind the tool to suit.

I use some larger HSS bits, held directly in the tool clamp.

#3 -- How [well] does a lathe cut-off [parting off] tool holder
work for a slotter? Enco has these on sale
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMPI
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...TEM=RW250-1774
that looks like they should work.
Any one tried this?

Grind a HSS bit as required. Cheaper ! If you really feel th need to
have one, use the shaper to cut the dovetail, and make one.

Also the "correct" size holder [3/8 wide] takes a 3/32X5/8 blade,
which are available, but for lathe work I have had better result
with the parallel T shaped blades. The problem is that these
don't seem to be available in the 3/32X5/8 size to fit the
holder. Anyone used the H style blades in a shaper and if so is
there enough difference in performance to bother with? Again
production speed is not important, but ease of set up and use is.

See above!

The old shaper books show the use of "goose neck" tools.
Armstrong still makes a "goo sneck" cut-off tool holder [83-213 @
165$US, wrench and one blade included] that will fit, but the
price makes my socks roll up and down.
http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalo...p?groupID=1176
Anybody tried one of these, and if so is there any difference for
home/hobby use? Any alternative suppliers or used?

Again with the cut-off tool. Save the money for stuff you need. The
goose neck tools were used to prevent dig-in on the cut stroke. A heavy
load on the tool would caue the tool to flex away from the work. For the
most part, you won't load the machine that much, for the times that you
do, a straight tool holder will work just fine. If you want a goose neck
tool, make one.

I am also looking for both belts guards [left and right side],
the left side "door," the 3/8 square drive "crank" for table
setting, stroke adjustment, etc., the elusive Armstrong #39 multi
position tool holder [or equivalent] and a small swivel shaper
vise.

Plaza Tools or perhaps the Sobels, for the belt guards. And Ebay.
Learn to recognize the parts you need. An awful pile of good stuff still
goes up there, that the seller has no clue of the identity of. Scan
through the "Vice" and Vise" listings every so often, and you will
likely see the correct one go by at some point. Then all you have to do
is pay more than anyone else is willing to!

If anyone has and uses the multi position tool holder, is it
worth the effort/cost to locate, or will a left/right lathe tool
holder work just about as well?

The multi position tool holder is worth watching for, but not worth
paying all your toy money for, if you know what I mean. I paid $25 for
one, and figured I got a good deal. Lathe tool holders are fine, too.

Novel thought. Make one.


Cheers
Trevor Jones

One of those was on CL in Tyler TX this week.
Nice one, running, complete. Asking $500, sold for $450.

"Lathe": http://dallas.craigslist.org/tls/677184388.html


F. George McDuffee wrote:
I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.

for details see
http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTo...s%20Shaper.pdf

Some specific question for the group:

#1 -- Is there any place still selling replacement parts?

#2 -- I need tool holders. The American style lathe tool holders
will fit, but is the carbide style with 0 degree built in back
rake or the regular w/ 15 degree (?) better for shaper use? No
HD production shaping projected, just hobby/home use.

#3 -- How [well] does a lathe cut-off [parting off] tool holder
work for a slotter? Enco has these on sale
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMPI
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...TEM=RW250-1774
that looks like they should work.
Any one tried this?

Also the "correct" size holder [3/8 wide] takes a 3/32X5/8 blade,
which are available, but for lathe work I have had better result
with the parallel T shaped blades. The problem is that these
don't seem to be available in the 3/32X5/8 size to fit the
holder. Anyone used the H style blades in a shaper and if so is
there enough difference in performance to bother with? Again
production speed is not important, but ease of set up and use is.

The old shaper books show the use of "goose neck" tools.
Armstrong still makes a "goo sneck" cut-off tool holder [83-213 @
165$US, wrench and one blade included] that will fit, but the
price makes my socks roll up and down.
http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalo...p?groupID=1176
Anybody tried one of these, and if so is there any difference for
home/hobby use? Any alternative suppliers or used?

I am also looking for both belts guards [left and right side],
the left side "door," the 3/8 square drive "crank" for table
setting, stroke adjustment, etc., the elusive Armstrong #39 multi
position tool holder [or equivalent] and a small swivel shaper
vise.

If anyone has and uses the multi position tool holder, is it
worth the effort/cost to locate, or will a left/right lathe tool
holder work just about as well?

FWIW - I got the shaper from Ron Moore of Oklahoma City. If you
are looking for an older machine, parts for an older machine, or
tooling for an older machine, drop him an email. Nice person to
do business with. FWIW -- he may be able to
give Gunner a run for the money about who has the most "stuff."

Thanks for any leads, information or advise.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Fri, 16 May 2008 12:56:15 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:


I use some larger HSS bits, held directly in the tool clamp.


thats all I use 99% of the time

Gunner, Logan shaper

Btw...there is an Atlas shaper group on Yahoo Groups. Appears pretty
active

On Thu, 15 May 2008 23:11:09 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.


George, there are a number of shaper books available on the NEMES web
site.. http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/shaper_book_page.htm

No Atlas specific books but a lot of excellent shaper information.

Errol Groff

On Thu, 15 May 2008 23:11:09 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.


Just confirming what the others have said, really.

Carbide, whether insert or brazed has a very short life on a shaper. It isn't
just the interrupted cut, dragging the tool backwards after knocking it on the
front face of the work chips the end off the tool in very short order.

Parting tools can be used for cutting slots. But don't bother with blade type
tools in holders. they _will_ snap. A parting tool ground with plenty of side
relief from a lump of HSS will cut very tidy slots.

In general, tools work best in shapers when they are as stiff as you can make
them. I get reasonable results from 1/2" square HSS blanks and for gear
cutting, excellent results from 3/8" square blanks Loctite 603'd into
3/4"x5/8"x4" slotted steel holders on my 10" Royal shaper. Basically, aim at a
tool size that will fill the toolpost if you are intending heavy work or much
overhang of the tool bit.

Having got you paranoid, left and right handed HSS lathe tools give perfectly
adequate results for most work. for the finest finishing work there are two
specific tool forms, one for brittle material like cast iron and the other for
ductile material like steel.

Moltrecht Vol 2 has examples in the very first chapter or this link has
slightly less good examples:-
http://www3.telus.net/public/aschoep...rmy7shaper.pdf

There are better references, but I can't find them right now.

Have fun :-)
Mark Rand
RTFM

On 2008-05-16, F George McDuffee wrote:
I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.

Congratulations!

for details see
http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTo...s%20Shaper.pdf

Some specific question for the group:

#1 -- Is there any place still selling replacement parts?

You could try:

"Clausing Service Center".

1 (574) 533-0371 as of July 2005.

they are part of what is left of Atlas, and may have parts for the
machine. You can check, at least. And be prepared with the model
number and serial number -- they can probably give you the date of
manufacture of your machine.

#2 -- I need tool holders. The American style lathe tool holders
will fit, but is the carbide style with 0 degree built in back
rake or the regular w/ 15 degree (?) better for shaper use? No
HD production shaping projected, just hobby/home use.

The normal holders for the shaper hold the tools parallel to the
shank, so you would have to grind a negative rake onto the tools for the
15 degree holders.

My machine is a Rockwell/Delta -- they bought the 7" machine
line from AMMCO.

What I normally use are two things:

1) One of the special shaper holders which has a castelation to
allow the tool to be set at 45 degree increments to the shank,
giving seven usable positions (since having the point over the
shank is obviously not much use.

#3 -- How [well] does a lathe cut-off [parting off] tool holder
work for a slotter? Enco has these on sale
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMPI
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...TEM=RW250-1774
that looks like they should work.
Any one tried this?

Not I -- so I don't know how it would work.

Also the "correct" size holder [3/8 wide] takes a 3/32X5/8 blade,
which are available, but for lathe work I have had better result
with the parallel T shaped blades. The problem is that these
don't seem to be available in the 3/32X5/8 size to fit the
holder. Anyone used the H style blades in a shaper and if so is
there enough difference in performance to bother with? Again
production speed is not important, but ease of set up and use is.

Since I have not used parting tools on the shaper, I have also
not used the T-profile blades.

The old shaper books show the use of "goose neck" tools.
Armstrong still makes a "goo sneck" cut-off tool holder [83-213 @
165$US, wrench and one blade included] that will fit, but the
price makes my socks roll up and down.

That would be fun to see. :-)

The purpose of the gooseneck is to have the tool tilt away from
the workpiece when it digs in -- also used for aggressive parting.
Given the forces involved in the larger shapers, they are pretty much
mandatory for those, but you can probably get around the need for our
size of machines.

http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalo...p?groupID=1176
Anybody tried one of these, and if so is there any difference for
home/hobby use? Any alternative suppliers or used?

I would like to have one for parting -- if I did not use Aloris
style tool post holders.

I am also looking for both belts guards [left and right side],
the left side "door," the 3/8 square drive "crank" for table
setting, stroke adjustment, etc., the elusive Armstrong #39 multi
position tool holder [or equivalent] and a small swivel shaper
vise.

If anyone has and uses the multi position tool holder, is it
worth the effort/cost to locate, or will a left/right lathe tool
holder work just about as well?

It gives a lot more flexibility in setup, for example when
trying to undercut something. Your standard lathe holders only have a
limited left or right as well as straight ahead (and a separate holder
for each), while the multi-position has eight positions, of which seven
are useful.

I got mine from an eBay auction -- after a few years of
watching.

FWIW - I got the shaper from Ron Moore of Oklahoma City. If you
are looking for an older machine, parts for an older machine, or
tooling for an older machine, drop him an email. Nice person to
do business with. FWIW -- he may be able to
give Gunner a run for the money about who has the most "stuff."

Useful information. Thanks.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:05:48 -0400, Errol Groff
wrote:

On Thu, 15 May 2008 23:11:09 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.


George, there are a number of shaper books available on the NEMES web
site.. http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/shaper_book_page.htm

No Atlas specific books but a lot of excellent shaper information.

Errol Groff
=========
Thanks for the URL --- excellent source and the price is right.




Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Sat, 17 May 2008 00:17:13 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Thu, 15 May 2008 23:11:09 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.
Just confirming what the others have said, really.
Carbide, whether insert or brazed has a very short life on a shaper. It isn't
just the interrupted cut, dragging the tool backwards after knocking it on the
front face of the work chips the end off the tool in very short order.
Indeed

Parting tools can be used for cutting slots. But don't bother with blade type
tools in holders. they _will_ snap. A parting tool ground with plenty of side
relief from a lump of HSS will cut very tidy slots.
Thanks -- you just saved me some money/aggrivation here. Has
anyone used the P type cutoff blades. I am thinking of two long
pieces of 3/8 key stock [as large/wide as will fit in the Atlas
tool post], with grooves cut [on the shaper naturally] to fit the
top and bottom of the blades as a P5S [3/16 wide] Anyone tried
this? I have several projects in mind that need slots.

In general, tools work best in shapers when they are as stiff as you can make
them. I get reasonable results from 1/2" square HSS blanks and for gear
cutting, excellent results from 3/8" square blanks Loctite 603'd into
3/4"x5/8"x4" slotted steel holders on my 10" Royal shaper. Basically, aim at a
tool size that will fill the toolpost if you are intending heavy work or much
overhang of the tool bit.
Limited to 3/8 width X about 1-1/8 depth on the Atlas 7B tool
post.

Having got you paranoid, left and right handed HSS lathe tools give perfectly
adequate results for most work. for the finest finishing work there are two
specific tool forms, one for brittle material like cast iron and the other for
ductile material like steel.

Moltrecht Vol 2 has examples in the very first chapter or this link has
slightly less good examples:-
http://www3.telus.net/public/aschoep...rmy7shaper.pdf
I have both vols of Moltrecht, and all the shaper books from
Lindsay. Some of the other Lindsay reprints such as the Complete
Practical Machinist by Rose [1901 edition] also have some shaper
hints. Rose shows on page 63 a planer tool holder that should
adapt to the shaper. I have a piece of CRS reserved.

The older books also show very large tool holders (or possibly
forged tools) bolted directly to the clapper block w/o the use of
a tool post. Some seem to have bolts through the tool shank and
others are retained with straps bolted to the clapper block. Has
anyone drilled and tapped their clapper block to allow this? If
so what was the result? I could use up to 1 inch square holders
with this mod, but would be limited to (4) 5/16 cap screws, which
would seem to be adequate.

There are better references, but I can't find them right now.

Have fun :-)
Mark Rand
RTFM
=========
Thanks for the feedback and info.

Has anyone machined "elling" or other form tools from A2? Enco
has a sale on A2 drill rod this month.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...PA&PMCTLG=0 1
If so what heat treat did you use and what did you draw to? Or
would I be better off grinding from a hard 1/4 X 1/2 or 5/8 tool
bit? I don't have a surface grinder, but I do have a baldor
style carbide grinder [with white rocks], a disk/belt sander
[with blue belts] and a Drimel tool.

FWIW -- I think I have located what looks like an exact
replacement S7-100 crank from Carr-Lane their sku CL-0-H
@10.25$US list, and the local mill supply is a Carr Lane dealer.
http://www.carrlane.com/Catalog/inde...3C3B2853524A55


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Fri, 16 May 2008 12:56:15 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:
snip
If you want a goose neck tool, make one.
snip
===========
If I had a suitable piece of metal "in stock" I more than likely
would. Unfortunately, if you have to [cough -- cough] buy a
suitable piece of metal, it frequently costs as much for just the
material as it does for a complete "part" from Asia.

From comments in this thread and emails, and further reading of
the old texts, it appears that much of the fancy tooling of that
era, such as goose necks, either to allow spring or place the
cutting edge on the clapper box pin center line, were either
"voodoo," a work around for inconsistent material with hard and
soft spots, or production "improvers" to allow deeper cuts,
faster speeds, bigger feed rates, etc. In the home/hobby shop
slower speeds, lighter feeds and shallower depths of cuts are
always an option, with less wear and tear on the tooling and
equipment.

That said, I more than likely will butcher yet another innocent
piece of CDS.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Fri, 16 May 2008 20:04:06 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:



The older books also show very large tool holders (or possibly
forged tools) bolted directly to the clapper block w/o the use of
a tool post. Some seem to have bolts through the tool shank and
others are retained with straps bolted to the clapper block. Has
anyone drilled and tapped their clapper block to allow this? If
so what was the result? I could use up to 1 inch square holders
with this mod, but would be limited to (4) 5/16 cap screws, which
would seem to be adequate.


What's the diameter of the toolpost? The pictures in the Atlas manual seem to
indicate a rather narrow slot in a reasonably sized post. For comparison,
mine's got a 5/8 slot in a 1 1/8 post. That's verging on too wide for the
post, but it's what it came with. It should be possible to push the toolpost
out of the back of clapper and make custom holders to bolt to a "top-hat" nut
made to fit in the back of the clapper. This is a good way to get a more rigid
design for a long overhang keyseating tool, hacksaw or similar.


Mark Rand
RTFM

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 16 May 2008 12:56:15 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:
snip

If you want a goose neck tool, make one.

snip
===========
If I had a suitable piece of metal "in stock" I more than likely
would. Unfortunately, if you have to [cough -- cough] buy a
suitable piece of metal, it frequently costs as much for just the
material as it does for a complete "part" from Asia.


Does not need to be anything special. A suitable sized chunk of hot
rolled Mild steel would suffice. Keep your eyes peeled while walking the
dog, and you are like as not to step over a chunk of spring that fell
off someones Chevy.

Old Chevy spring is a traditional source for many things, as well!

A lot of the old tool shapes were quite practical, when there was a
blacksmith shop, right out the door from the machine shop. Not so much,
now. Yo are correct, though, when you say that light cuts and patience
will get you to the end.
It is exactly this reason that shapers lost their place in the scheme
of things. There came other, faster means of moving metal, an dthe world
moved on. They still show up in the odd shop, but they are no longer
very common.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Sat, 17 May 2008 08:50:57 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

What's the diameter of the toolpost? The pictures in the Atlas manual seem to
indicate a rather narrow slot in a reasonably sized post. For comparison,
mine's got a 5/8 slot in a 1 1/8 post. That's verging on too wide for the
post, but it's what it came with. It should be possible to push the toolpost
out of the back of clapper and make custom holders to bolt to a "top-hat" nut
made to fit in the back of the clapper. This is a good way to get a more rigid
design for a long overhang keyseating tool, hacksaw or similar.

Mark Rand
RTFM
=============
As measured with "verynear" calipers

Clapper block is
0.755 thick
1.740 wide
2.710 high at widest part

tool post
top hat "brim"
1.180 diameter
0.130 thick

body
0.995 diameter

slot width
0.430 inches

Your suggestion to make a "nut" to fit the clapper block to allow
tool holders to be bolted to the face of the clapper block is a
good one. I even have a piece of salvaged pump shaft that should
be ideal material.

Most likely I will loctite a stud into the clapper "nut" and use
a flange nut to retain the holders, possibly with the addition of
an offset pin or SHCS to prevent the "nut" from turning when
clamping. After a closer examination of the clapper block there
is very little space for any drilled/tapped holes for straps. I
don't know if this is "standard" but the clapper block also has
set/grub screws to prevent the "tool post" from turning and a
set/grub screw in the clapper frame into a dimple in the clpper
block to lock it in place.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On May 15, 10:11*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.

for details seehttp://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/techman/Atlas%20Shaper.pdf

Some specific question for the group:

#1 -- Is there any place still selling replacement parts?

#2 -- I need tool holders. *The American style lathe tool holders
will fit, but is the carbide style with 0 degree built in back
rake or the regular w/ 15 degree (?) better for shaper use? *No
HD production shaping projected, just hobby/home use.

#3 -- How [well] does a lathe cut-off [parting off] tool holder
work for a slotter? *Enco has these on salehttp://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=RW250-1774&PMPANO=0437767&PM...http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...TEM=RW250-1774
that looks like they should work.
Any one tried this?

Also the "correct" size holder [3/8 wide] takes a 3/32X5/8 blade,
which are available, but for lathe work I have had better result
with the parallel T shaped blades. *The problem is that these
don't seem to be available in the 3/32X5/8 size to fit the
holder. *Anyone used the H style blades in a shaper and if so is
there enough difference in performance to bother with? *Again
production speed is not important, but ease of set up and use is.

The old shaper books show the use of "goose neck" tools.
Armstrong still makes a "goo sneck" cut-off tool holder [83-213 @
165$US, wrench and one blade included] that will fit, but the
price makes my socks roll up and down.http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalo...p?groupID=1176
Anybody tried one of these, and if so is there any difference for
home/hobby use? *Any alternative suppliers or used?

I am also looking for both belts guards [left and right side],
the left side "door," the 3/8 square drive "crank" for table
setting, stroke adjustment, etc., the elusive Armstrong #39 multi
position tool holder [or equivalent] and a small swivel shaper
vise.

If anyone has and uses the multi position tool holder, is it
worth the effort/cost to locate, or will a left/right lathe tool
holder work just about as well? *

FWIW - I got the shaper from Ron Moore of Oklahoma City. *If you
are looking for an older machine, parts for an older machine, or
tooling for an older machine, drop him an email. *Nice person to
do business with. *FWIW -- he may be able to
give Gunner a run for the money about who has the most "stuff."

Thanks for any leads, information or advise.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

I have one about that size. After reading a British book on small
shapers, I made my own tool holder to a pattern I saw in the book. It
had come with an Armstrong-type lathe tool holder, chattered like hell
because the tool tip was so far in advance of the clapper pivot that
it was digging in. The forged crank tools positioned the cutting edge
in back of the pivot so that it flexed out of the cut instead of
digging in. I came up with a 5/8" bolt, turned the head so it was
round, drilled and filed a square hole in it for 1/4" lathe bits just
under the head, then turned up a sleeve for it that was long enough to
position the tool edge just in back of clapper pivot plane. I then
welded the sleeve onto a suitable chunk of scrap structural steel that
fit the tool holder. The hole in the sleeve is positioned so the
bolt's axis is parallel with the ram's travel. When the nut is
tightened down, the bit doesn't shift at all. No more chatter, get a
great finish on parts and things just work a whole lot more smoothly.
The bolt/sleeve combination lets me position the tool in a lot more
positions, too. Williams had something like it cataloged at the time,
was like $300 in '70s dollars. Took me a Sat. afternoon and cost me
zip since everything was scrap that my dad hauled home from work.

Stan