I've developed a problem when facing on my lathe, I do a lot of small
dia disks (20-40mm) in 6082 Aluminium and when it comes time to polish
the face I'm noticing concentric circles appearing on the finished surface.

They're not to pronounced, I'm able to polish them out easily enough,
but I'm worried it might be indicating a developeing problem.

I've tried cutting at 0.5mm down to 0.1mm with little differance both
manually & on powerfeed, I've adjusted to gibs to the cross slide (tried
it loose, spot on & too tight), varied the RPM's, differant cutting
tools/holders and I can see that the saddle isn't moving from the DRO.

I've put a dial guage against the surface with no discernable movement
when rotating !

The circles are easy to see but impossibly difficult to photo, you have
to catch the light just right but they appear to be 2-3mm apart. I
cannot tell if they are truly concentric or spiralling.

I'm thinking 2 things . . . either play in the head bearings or the
crossfeed leadscrew. Please don't let it be the head bearings but I
can't see how the leadscrew can affect the finish if the gibs are
correctly set????

Any ideas?

I work on spectrometers, which are used to analyse various metals. The one I
work on that does aluminium samples at one customer's remelt and extrusion
plant does a sample every 45 minutes 24 hours per day, 6 days per week.
Their samples are about 55mm diameter and are cut on a lathe on just one
face.

We found after a bit of experimentation, that using of the shelf triangular
bits with methylated spirits in a hand operated squirt bottle (like from
your local kitchen supplies shop) as a coolant gave the best surface finish.
Prior to that they were grinding their own tips and the variation between
operators gave quite a variation in the surface finish. This affected the
operation of the spectrometer, causing variation in results.

The metho prevents the cutting tip from getting hot and trying to spot-weld
the surface of the sample. It also dries quickly without leaving residue
that affects the spectrometer. It is a simple operation once mastered to
squeeze the trigger with one hand and direct the straight line spray (not a
wide spread spray) at the cutting tip and to operate the hand crank with the
other, and to lean against the toolpost with one hip or knee to take up the
free play in the sloppy old lathe. They have installed a no smoking sign
above the lathe.....

Their sample mold has a 3mm deep depression in the centre to save worrying
about centering the tool, and a 1mm deep swarf breaking depression that runs
from the depressed centre almost all the way to the edge. This reduces the
length of the swarf to one rotation of cut for most of the time.

They normally cut about 3 by 0.5mm to 0.75mm cuts and then a finer 0.1mm to
0.2mm cut to finish the sample. This is fed by hand winding the many years
old lathe toolpost. The finish cut is normally done with a slower winding of
the cutting tool. The lathe has a lot of slop, but you know what companies
are like when it comes to replacing equipment that still does the basic job.

As it is only one face that is prepared, and they do not need to line up the
sample in the chuck for a second time, they are not worried that a fresh cut
uses a bit more sample that it would need to.

They melt a range of 6000 series alloys, and a range of high silicon casting
alloys and these all produce excellent results this way. 6082 is one of the
alloys they produce.

Hope this helps,
Peter

"HeffaLump" "Percussion Engineering" wrote in message
et...
I've developed a problem when facing on my lathe, I do a lot of small dia
disks (20-40mm) in 6082 Aluminium and when it comes time to polish the
face I'm noticing concentric circles appearing on the finished surface.

They're not to pronounced, I'm able to polish them out easily enough, but
I'm worried it might be indicating a developeing problem.

I've tried cutting at 0.5mm down to 0.1mm with little differance both
manually & on powerfeed, I've adjusted to gibs to the cross slide (tried
it loose, spot on & too tight), varied the RPM's, differant cutting
tools/holders and I can see that the saddle isn't moving from the DRO.

I've put a dial guage against the surface with no discernable movement
when rotating !

The circles are easy to see but impossibly difficult to photo, you have to
catch the light just right but they appear to be 2-3mm apart. I cannot
tell if they are truly concentric or spiralling.

I'm thinking 2 things . . . either play in the head bearings or the
crossfeed leadscrew. Please don't let it be the head bearings but I can't
see how the leadscrew can affect the finish if the gibs are correctly
set????

Any ideas?

HeffaLump "Percussion Engineering" fired this volley in
et:

I've developed a problem when facing on my lathe, I do a lot of small
dia disks (20-40mm) in 6082 Aluminium and when it comes time to polish
the face I'm noticing concentric circles appearing on the finished
surface.

They're not to pronounced, I'm able to polish them out easily enough,
but I'm worried it might be indicating a developeing problem.

I've tried cutting at 0.5mm down to 0.1mm with little differance both
manually & on powerfeed, I've adjusted to gibs to the cross slide
(tried it loose, spot on & too tight), varied the RPM's, differant
cutting tools/holders and I can see that the saddle isn't moving from
the DRO.

I've put a dial guage against the surface with no discernable movement
when rotating !

The circles are easy to see but impossibly difficult to photo, you
have to catch the light just right but they appear to be 2-3mm apart.
I cannot tell if they are truly concentric or spiralling.

I'm thinking 2 things . . . either play in the head bearings or the
crossfeed leadscrew. Please don't let it be the head bearings but I
can't see how the leadscrew can affect the finish if the gibs are
correctly set????

I'm thinking chip relief/breaking. If any part of the chip contacts the
work, it will burnish a circle there.

Have you changed your tool or the grinding of it, or is it building a
false edge?

LLoyd

On Tue, 13 May 2008 12:35:30 +0100, HeffaLump "Percussion
Engineering" wrote:

I've developed a problem when facing on my lathe, I do a lot of small
dia disks (20-40mm) in 6082 Aluminium and when it comes time to polish
the face I'm noticing concentric circles appearing on the finished surface.

They're not to pronounced, I'm able to polish them out easily enough,
but I'm worried it might be indicating a developeing problem.

I've tried cutting at 0.5mm down to 0.1mm with little differance both
manually & on powerfeed, I've adjusted to gibs to the cross slide (tried
it loose, spot on & too tight), varied the RPM's, differant cutting
tools/holders and I can see that the saddle isn't moving from the DRO.

I've put a dial guage against the surface with no discernable movement
when rotating !

The circles are easy to see but impossibly difficult to photo, you have
to catch the light just right but they appear to be 2-3mm apart. I
cannot tell if they are truly concentric or spiralling.

I'm thinking 2 things . . . either play in the head bearings or the
crossfeed leadscrew. Please don't let it be the head bearings but I
can't see how the leadscrew can affect the finish if the gibs are
correctly set????

Any ideas?


Use a tenths indicator and check for play in your spindle bearings,
both laterally and longitudinally.

Btw..that is one of the signs of increasing backlash in
ballscrews/leadscrews in CNC machines.

About .0004-.0006 will start showing the rings

A herringbone pattern on a side turn will often indicate excessive
bearing clearance

Plain or ball/roller bearings?

Gunner


Gunner

On Tue, 13 May 2008 07:29:54 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

HeffaLump "Percussion Engineering" fired this volley in
net:

I've developed a problem when facing on my lathe, I do a lot of small
dia disks (20-40mm) in 6082 Aluminium and when it comes time to polish
the face I'm noticing concentric circles appearing on the finished
surface.

They're not to pronounced, I'm able to polish them out easily enough,
but I'm worried it might be indicating a developeing problem.

I've tried cutting at 0.5mm down to 0.1mm with little differance both
manually & on powerfeed, I've adjusted to gibs to the cross slide
(tried it loose, spot on & too tight), varied the RPM's, differant
cutting tools/holders and I can see that the saddle isn't moving from
the DRO.

I've put a dial guage against the surface with no discernable movement
when rotating !

The circles are easy to see but impossibly difficult to photo, you
have to catch the light just right but they appear to be 2-3mm apart.
I cannot tell if they are truly concentric or spiralling.

I'm thinking 2 things . . . either play in the head bearings or the
crossfeed leadscrew. Please don't let it be the head bearings but I
can't see how the leadscrew can affect the finish if the gibs are
correctly set????

I'm thinking chip relief/breaking. If any part of the chip contacts the
work, it will burnish a circle there.

Have you changed your tool or the grinding of it, or is it building a
false edge?

LLoyd

One assumes he didnt have the problem before, and now does, and hasnt
changed brands/type of inserts?

Gunner

HeffaLump writes:

The circles are easy to see but impossibly difficult to photo, you have
to catch the light just right but they appear to be 2-3mm apart. I
cannot tell if they are truly concentric or spiralling.

I second the suspicion about the cutting tool and/or coolant, rather than
the rigidity. Sounds more like a finish problem than a positioning
problem.

Bushy Pete writes:

... methylated spirits ...

I.e., what we Americans call denatured alcohol, mostly ethanol plus a
denaturant such as a very small proportion of methanol.

It still baffles me how anyone expects us to make billions of gallons of
ethanol for fuel and not have a bootlegging problem. Surely the guys in
the distillery will have every incentive to draw off a personal supply
before the stuff is denatured with gasoline. Or are we going to hire
100,000 IRS agents to watch them? This corn ethanol biz is literally just
making 200 proof vodka on an unimaginably huge scale. And this is the
country that once had Prohibition!

fwiw

I use 80 degree positive rake inserts, with an extreme hi positive on top,
specifically for non-ferrous metals.

ccmt 2xx

ccmt 3xx


"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
HeffaLump writes:

The circles are easy to see but impossibly difficult to photo, you have
to catch the light just right but they appear to be 2-3mm apart. I
cannot tell if they are truly concentric or spiralling.

I second the suspicion about the cutting tool and/or coolant, rather than
the rigidity. Sounds more like a finish problem than a positioning
problem.

HeffaLump wrote:
I've developed a problem when facing on my lathe, I do a lot of small
dia disks (20-40mm) in 6082 Aluminium and when it comes time to polish
the face I'm noticing concentric circles appearing on the finished surface.

They're not to pronounced, I'm able to polish them out easily enough,
but I'm worried it might be indicating a developeing problem.

I've tried cutting at 0.5mm down to 0.1mm with little differance both
manually & on powerfeed, I've adjusted to gibs to the cross slide (tried
it loose, spot on & too tight), varied the RPM's, differant cutting
tools/holders and I can see that the saddle isn't moving from the DRO.

I've put a dial guage against the surface with no discernable movement
when rotating !

The circles are easy to see but impossibly difficult to photo, you have
to catch the light just right but they appear to be 2-3mm apart. I
cannot tell if they are truly concentric or spiralling.

I'm thinking 2 things . . . either play in the head bearings or the
crossfeed leadscrew. Please don't let it be the head bearings but I
can't see how the leadscrew can affect the finish if the gibs are
correctly set????

Any ideas?

Could be half a dozen things. It can be built-up edge of workpiece
material on the cutting edge, variations in feedrate from your hands
(try using the power feed at a very low advance rate). Oh, OK, I see
you've already tried that! It could be looseness in the gibs allowing
the cross slide to weave back and forth slightly as you turn the crank.

If the spacing of the rings match the thread pitch of your crossfeed
screw, then the connection is nearly certain. remeber that no machine
is totally rigid, everything is slightly flexible. And, even with the
gibs "too tight", there is still an ability of the upper slide part to
rock just a little. It is possible there is a misalignment between the
screw and the nut that is applying sideways forces on the nut, thus
rocking the slide as the screw turns.

Jon

Richard J Kinch wrote:
Bushy Pete writes:

... methylated spirits ...

I.e., what we Americans call denatured alcohol, mostly ethanol plus a
denaturant such as a very small proportion of methanol.

It still baffles me how anyone expects us to make billions of gallons of
ethanol for fuel and not have a bootlegging problem. Surely the guys in
the distillery will have every incentive to draw off a personal supply
before the stuff is denatured with gasoline. Or are we going to hire
100,000 IRS agents to watch them? This corn ethanol biz is literally just
making 200 proof vodka on an unimaginably huge scale. And this is the
country that once had Prohibition!

You mean ATF.

And we may have had Prohibition, but before that we had areas of the
country where they used whiskey for money, and had insurrections over
the federal government insisting that folks pay taxes with cash instead
of in kind.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Tue, 13 May 2008 13:17:29 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Bushy Pete writes:

... methylated spirits ...

I.e., what we Americans call denatured alcohol, mostly ethanol plus a
denaturant such as a very small proportion of methanol.

It still baffles me how anyone expects us to make billions of gallons of
ethanol for fuel and not have a bootlegging problem. Surely the guys in
the distillery will have every incentive to draw off a personal supply
before the stuff is denatured with gasoline. Or are we going to hire
100,000 IRS agents to watch them? This corn ethanol biz is literally just
making 200 proof vodka on an unimaginably huge scale. And this is the
country that once had Prohibition!



Bootlegers are old school, the new generation grows rope...easier,
more profitable.

It will never matter how cheap ethanol gets IMO , when
it comes down to sippin stock, it's about quality, not price. :-) ED

HeffaLump "Percussion Engineering" wrote:

The circles are easy to see but impossibly difficult to photo, you have
to catch the light just right but they appear to be 2-3mm apart. I
cannot tell if they are truly concentric or spiralling.

I'm thinking 2 things . . . either play in the head bearings or the
crossfeed leadscrew. Please don't let it be the head bearings but I
can't see how the leadscrew can affect the finish if the gibs are
correctly set????


Check the head stock bearings. Sounds like what recently happened to one of
our LB15 Okuma's.

Wes

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...


HeffaLump wrote:
I've developed a problem when facing on my lathe, I do a lot of small dia
disks (20-40mm) in 6082 Aluminium and when it comes time to polish the
face I'm noticing concentric circles appearing on the finished surface.

They're not to pronounced, I'm able to polish them out easily enough, but
I'm worried it might be indicating a developeing problem.

I've tried cutting at 0.5mm down to 0.1mm with little differance both
manually & on powerfeed, I've adjusted to gibs to the cross slide (tried
it loose, spot on & too tight), varied the RPM's, differant cutting
tools/holders and I can see that the saddle isn't moving from the DRO.

I've put a dial guage against the surface with no discernable movement
when rotating !

The circles are easy to see but impossibly difficult to photo, you have
to catch the light just right but they appear to be 2-3mm apart. I cannot
tell if they are truly concentric or spiralling.

I'm thinking 2 things . . . either play in the head bearings or the
crossfeed leadscrew. Please don't let it be the head bearings but I can't
see how the leadscrew can affect the finish if the gibs are correctly
set????

Any ideas?

Could be half a dozen things. It can be built-up edge of workpiece
material on the cutting edge, variations in feedrate from your hands (try
using the power feed at a very low advance rate). Oh, OK, I see you've
already tried that! It could be looseness in the gibs allowing the cross
slide to weave back and forth slightly as you turn the crank.

If the spacing of the rings match the thread pitch of your crossfeed
screw, then the connection is nearly certain. remeber that no machine is
totally rigid, everything is slightly flexible. And, even with the gibs
"too tight", there is still an ability of the upper slide part to rock
just a little. It is possible there is a misalignment between the screw
and the nut that is applying sideways forces on the nut, thus rocking the
slide as the screw turns.

Jon

It seems possible that the leadscrew may be slightly bent. This can easily
rock the saddle enough to form noticeable rings.

Don Young

ED writes:

It will never matter how cheap ethanol gets IMO , when
it comes down to sippin stock, it's about quality, not price.

For drivin or for sippin, it all starts out as the same vodka out of the
still. One goes to the gasoline blender, the other into an oak barrel.

I have experienced this problem before and it turned out to be crossfeed
leadscrew alignment. Make certain that the follower nut is loaded evenly
from one end to the other end of crossfeed travel and that the resistance to
turning the dial handle doesn't increase when the crossfeed clamping screw
is tightened to the follower nut. Any aberation in the crossfeed travel will
show on the facing finish. If the problem only shows when power feeding and
not in manual feed, then look at the apron to crosslide fit for drive gear
misalignment/binding.
Steve

"HeffaLump" "Percussion Engineering" wrote in message
et...
I've developed a problem when facing on my lathe, I do a lot of small dia
disks (20-40mm) in 6082 Aluminium and when it comes time to polish the
face I'm noticing concentric circles appearing on the finished surface.

They're not to pronounced, I'm able to polish them out easily enough, but
I'm worried it might be indicating a developeing problem.

I've tried cutting at 0.5mm down to 0.1mm with little differance both
manually & on powerfeed, I've adjusted to gibs to the cross slide (tried
it loose, spot on & too tight), varied the RPM's, differant cutting
tools/holders and I can see that the saddle isn't moving from the DRO.

I've put a dial guage against the surface with no discernable movement
when rotating !

The circles are easy to see but impossibly difficult to photo, you have to
catch the light just right but they appear to be 2-3mm apart. I cannot
tell if they are truly concentric or spiralling.

I'm thinking 2 things . . . either play in the head bearings or the
crossfeed leadscrew. Please don't let it be the head bearings but I can't
see how the leadscrew can affect the finish if the gibs are correctly
set????

Any ideas?

On Wed, 14 May 2008 00:15:08 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

ED writes:

It will never matter how cheap ethanol gets IMO , when
it comes down to sippin stock, it's about quality, not price.

For drivin or for sippin, it all starts out as the same vodka out of the
still. One goes to the gasoline blender, the other into an oak barrel.



There's a micro distillery start up in this local, word is that it's
heavly regulated.

Their process is vastly different than a fuel plant. An
internal combustion engine doesn't mind nastys like aldehydes
and the higher alcohols, but I sure do. Oh I suppose one could
consider the fuel grade as a stripper batch and rerun it.
and I'm sure someone will do just that. ED

ED writes:

Their process is vastly different than a fuel plant.

What's different about a fuel vs beverage distillery? I would expect they
would both be the same. Got any links explaining it? It seems to be an
issue not readily Googled.

Clearly some blindfold taste-testing is in order.

On Fri, 16 May 2008 00:29:38 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

ED writes:

Their process is vastly different than a fuel plant.

What's different about a fuel vs beverage distillery? I would expect they
would both be the same. Got any links explaining it? It seems to be an
issue not readily Googled.

Clearly some blindfold taste-testing is in order.
Start here-very good subject material

http://homedistiller.org/

" I heard about this guy" who actually built one of those,
reflux devices for,,well you know distilling essential oils,
or something like that. (really nice metal working project)
Seen pictures...copper is so pretty.when polished....

. The devil's in the details..yeast, wash recipe. ect.

After a number of attempts he's said really have it down to a science.
A good percent of what comes out is best used for ligher
fluid,(foreshots and tails) but the middle of the run or the heads
as its called is said to be pretty darn good.., esp. after a carbon
polish.

For fuel a vacuum system would be a good
choice. where as on a reflux type thing letting it relux
for a long while and getting it stabilized before opening
the drip makes for a nicer product, or so it's been said.

On a fuel system just strip it all out quickly...acetones, cogeners,
the whole thing...

.ED who collects pint canning jars