Hi Nick,

I'm not sure if you still read r.c.m, but I'm hoping you might be able
to help me with a couple of the finer points of technical German:

"Versuche mit geschweißten Trägern zur Beurteilung der Eignung der
verwendeten Werkstoffe und der Art der Herstellung der Träger. Prüfung
der Werkstoffe mit dem Nutschweißbiegeversuch und mit dem
Kerbschlagbiegeversuch."

In the sentences above, is "beams" the best translation of "Trägern", or
is a more general term such as "members" or "specimens" more appropriate?

Also, what does "Nutschweißbiegeversuch" mean to you? The best
translation I can figure out is "groove weld bending test", and were it
not for the fact that "Kerbschlagbiegeversuch" appears in the same
sentence, I might have thought it referred to the Charpy impact test.
But instead I'm assuming that it refers to a slow speed bending test
where the bending moment required, or the degree of bending sustained
before failure, is the quantity measured rather than energy.

The complete translation which I've figured out is (do correct me if I'm
wrong):

"Experiments with welded beams to assess the suitability of the
materials employed and the method of fabricating the beams. Testing the
materials with the groove weld bending test and notched bar impact test."

If you can shed any light on this, I'd be grateful. Or if Nick doesn't
respond, perhaps someone else can?

Many thanks,

Chris

Christopher Tidy wrote:

In the sentences above, is "beams" the best translation of "Trägern", or
is a more general term such as "members" or "specimens" more appropriate?

"Träger" is and can be something very general. Normaly it has the meaning of
beam (I-beam) or girder. In this context, it looks more like beam.

Also, what does "Nutschweißbiegeversuch" mean to you?

Oh my good! :-) I have never heard of that. Google has three hits. Your
posting (LOL!) and two to the "Hütte" (that I do not have, I never liked
that book). Didn't find that in other books, too specific.

The best translation I can figure out is "groove weld bending test",

Perfect. I would translate it the same way. "Nut" normally means more an
U-shaped groove but that doesn't make sense here. So I assume that "Nut" is
just any groove for welding (contrary to fillet welding). And bending
("...biege...") is not a dynamic test, contrary to
the "Schlag". "Kerbschlagbiegeversuch" being one of: notched bar impact
bending test; Charpy impact test; Izod test.

But instead I'm assuming that it refers to a slow speed bending test
where the bending moment required, or the degree of bending sustained
before failure, is the quantity measured rather than energy.

Absolutely. I assume it is the bending angle at failure that gives the
number. Or the requirement is a minimum bending angle.

"Experiments with welded beams to assess the suitability of the
materials employed and the method of fabricating the beams. Testing the
materials with the groove weld bending test and notched bar impact test."

Nothing to correct. If you translated that without knowing German, you get a
A+++ :-)

Wild guess:
The text is pre-60. And is about the problem of liquation ("Seigerung") of
sulfur in I-beams.



Nick
--
The lowcost-DRO:
http://www.yadro.de

Hi Nick,

Thanks very much for the response. Much appreciated!

In the sentences above, is "beams" the best translation of "Trägern", or
is a more general term such as "members" or "specimens" more appropriate?


"Träger" is and can be something very general. Normaly it has the meaning of
beam (I-beam) or girder. In this context, it looks more like beam.

I was assuming that it could have a pretty broad meaning, but I wasn't
sure if it could be even broader than "beam", such as perhaps a
"specimen". But I couldn't make that fit using a dictionary. Thanks for
clarifying it for me.

Also, what does "Nutschweißbiegeversuch" mean to you?


Oh my good! :-) I have never heard of that. Google has three hits. Your
posting (LOL!) and two to the "Hütte" (that I do not have, I never liked
that book). Didn't find that in other books, too specific.


The best translation I can figure out is "groove weld bending test",


Perfect. I would translate it the same way. "Nut" normally means more an
U-shaped groove but that doesn't make sense here. So I assume that "Nut" is
just any groove for welding (contrary to fillet welding). And bending
("...biege...") is not a dynamic test, contrary to
the "Schlag". "Kerbschlagbiegeversuch" being one of: notched bar impact
bending test; Charpy impact test; Izod test.

I'm assuming that it either refers to a groove made as a weld
preparation (as opposed to no preparation), or a large groove which the
beam is pressed into when being tested. Could it refer to a three-point
testing machine, in which a simply-supported beam is loaded in the
middle? Or doesn't that make any sense?

But instead I'm assuming that it refers to a slow speed bending test
where the bending moment required, or the degree of bending sustained
before failure, is the quantity measured rather than energy.


Absolutely. I assume it is the bending angle at failure that gives the
number. Or the requirement is a minimum bending angle.


"Experiments with welded beams to assess the suitability of the
materials employed and the method of fabricating the beams. Testing the
materials with the groove weld bending test and notched bar impact test."


Nothing to correct. If you translated that without knowing German, you get a
A+++ :-)

I know a bit of German. My written German is better than my spoken
German (because when reading, I have the time to figure out the
meaning). Some day I'd like to spend a few years in Germany and learn
the language properly.

Wild guess:
The text is pre-60. And is about the problem of liquation ("Seigerung") of
sulfur in I-beams.

It's a text by Otto Graf, published in 1943, about the strength and
testing of welded structures. I am particularly interested in the
performance of welded structures when compared to hot-riveted
structures. I don't have the full text, just a summary, as it's a book
I'm thinking of buying. If I do, I'll get back to you with the meaning
of "Nutschweißbiegeversuch"!

Many thanks,

Chris

Nick Mueller wrote:

Wild guess:
The text is pre-60. And is about the problem of liquation ("Seigerung") of
sulfur in I-beams.

In the brief "Aus dem Inhalt" summary I have, I can't find mention of
sulphur, but I don't think it's the complete list of contents. It could
be there!

Best wishes,

Chris

Christopher Tidy wrote:

I was assuming that it could have a pretty broad meaning, but I wasn't
sure if it could be even broader than "beam", such as perhaps a
"specimen". But I couldn't make that fit using a dictionary. Thanks for
clarifying it for me.

No no. Not specimen. The problem with the word "Träger" is, that it denotes
an I-beam ("Doppel-T Träger") or some carrier ("Flugzeugträger"). So it can
be something from simple to a complex structure, as long as it has to carry
some load.

[For confusion:
Under the microscope, the specimen is put onto a "Träger"]

I'm assuming that it either refers to a groove made as a weld
preparation (as opposed to no preparation),

Yes.

Could it refer to a three-point
testing machine, in which a simply-supported beam is loaded in the
middle? Or doesn't that make any sense?

No. Because "Nut" is something smallish. Certainly not big enough to bend an
I-beam into. :-)

It's a text by Otto Graf, published in 1943, about the strength and
testing of welded structures.

Ah! That explains why I couldn't google the word. A lost procedure. And I
have no old books about welding.


Nick
--
The lowcost-DRO:
http://www.yadro.de

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:35:39 +0200, Nick Mueller
wrote:

Christopher Tidy wrote:

I was assuming that it could have a pretty broad meaning, but I wasn't
sure if it could be even broader than "beam", such as perhaps a
"specimen". But I couldn't make that fit using a dictionary. Thanks for
clarifying it for me.

No no. Not specimen. The problem with the word "Träger" is, that it denotes
an I-beam ("Doppel-T Träger") or some carrier ("Flugzeugträger"). So it can
be something from simple to a complex structure, as long as it has to carry
some load.

[For confusion:
Under the microscope, the specimen is put onto a "Träger"]

I'm assuming that it either refers to a groove made as a weld
preparation (as opposed to no preparation),

Yes.

Could it refer to a three-point
testing machine, in which a simply-supported beam is loaded in the
middle? Or doesn't that make any sense?

No. Because "Nut" is something smallish. Certainly not big enough to bend an
I-beam into. :-)

It's a text by Otto Graf, published in 1943, about the strength and
testing of welded structures.

Ah! That explains why I couldn't google the word. A lost procedure. And I
have no old books about welding.


Nick

I suspect this is a slightly newer edition of the book Chris
is considering:

Versuche über die Widerstandsfähigkeit von geschweissten
Querträgeranschlüssen bei oftmals wiederholter
Biegebelastung

by Otto Graf; Fritz Munzinger

Type: Book; German
Publisher: Berlin, Springer, 1952.
OCLC: 31331779

Related Subjects: Welded joints -- Testing. | Steel,
Structural -- Testing.

http://worldcat.org/wcpa/oclc/31331779

There is suppose to be a copy at Die Deutsche
Nationalbibliothek, Frankfurt AM Main, D-60322 Germany in
case you are really curious Nick

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Nick Mueller wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote:


I was assuming that it could have a pretty broad meaning, but I wasn't
sure if it could be even broader than "beam", such as perhaps a
"specimen". But I couldn't make that fit using a dictionary. Thanks for
clarifying it for me.


No no. Not specimen. The problem with the word "Träger" is, that it denotes
an I-beam ("Doppel-T Träger") or some carrier ("Flugzeugträger"). So it can
be something from simple to a complex structure, as long as it has to carry
some load.

[For confusion:
Under the microscope, the specimen is put onto a "Träger"]

Okay. So "carrier" has to be part of the meaning.

Could it refer to a three-point
testing machine, in which a simply-supported beam is loaded in the
middle? Or doesn't that make any sense?


No. Because "Nut" is something smallish. Certainly not big enough to bend an
I-beam into. :-)

Thanks. These little differences are where it's really useful to have
the assistance of a native speaker.

Best wishes,

Chris