Well I have not seen a junk tools made either here or in Europe. Of course,
some are better than others, but never junk. However, it stands to reason
that there must be some junk made in the first world even if I haven't seen
it, but it sure in hell isn't 1 to 4, which I see regularly from mainland
China.
Steve


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:34:18 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus30765 quickly quoth:

On 2008-04-27, Black Dragon wrote:
Steve Lusardi wrote:

Please do not get me wrong. I am not prejudiced against Chinese
machines.
They are great value for money, but you need to understand what you are
buying. I have had very good luck with some, but I have really seen
some
junk.

I take it you've never seen any of the junk made here in the USA?


I personally have not seen any junk tools made in the USA.

Then you haven't been buying them here for long enough, Ig.

--
Happiness in marriage is entirely a matter of chance. If the dispositions
of the parties are ever so well known to each other or ever so similar
beforehand, it does not advance their felicity in the least. They always
continue to grow sufficiently unlike afterwards to have their share of
vexation; and it is better to know as little as possible of the defects of
the person with whom you are to pass your life.
-- Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice, 1811

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:34:18 -0500, Ignoramus30765
wrote:

On 2008-04-27, Black Dragon wrote:
Steve Lusardi wrote:

Please do not get me wrong. I am not prejudiced against Chinese machines.
They are great value for money, but you need to understand what you are
buying. I have had very good luck with some, but I have really seen some
junk.

I take it you've never seen any of the junk made here in the USA?


I personally have not seen any junk tools made in the USA.


Neither have I, actually...and Im pretty tool savvy.

Gunner

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

On 2008-04-27, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:34:18 -0500, Ignoramus30765
wrote:

On 2008-04-27, Black Dragon wrote:
Steve Lusardi wrote:

Please do not get me wrong. I am not prejudiced against Chinese machines.
They are great value for money, but you need to understand what you are
buying. I have had very good luck with some, but I have really seen some
junk.

I take it you've never seen any of the junk made here in the USA?


I personally have not seen any junk tools made in the USA.


Neither have I, actually...and Im pretty tool savvy.

By junk, I mean the tool either did not function as intended, or broke
much before its expected lifetime, under normal use. I cannot recall a
single instance of a US made tool failing in this manner.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:31:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus30765 quickly quoth:

On 2008-04-27, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:34:18 -0500, Ignoramus30765
wrote:

On 2008-04-27, Black Dragon wrote:
Steve Lusardi wrote:

Please do not get me wrong. I am not prejudiced against Chinese machines.
They are great value for money, but you need to understand what you are
buying. I have had very good luck with some, but I have really seen some
junk.

I take it you've never seen any of the junk made here in the USA?


I personally have not seen any junk tools made in the USA.


Neither have I, actually...and Im pretty tool savvy.

By junk, I mean the tool either did not function as intended, or broke
much before its expected lifetime, under normal use. I cannot recall a
single instance of a US made tool failing in this manner.

If nothing else, you never bought anything from Searz branded Crapsman
in the late 70s or early 80s, or anything not branded Crapsman at any
other time. Then again, lots of that crap is Chiwanese or Indian, and
both those sources have been producing a MUCH better product in the
last decade or so.

--
As a curmudgeon, I grok that in its entirety.
--LJ

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:31:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus30765 quickly quoth:


On 2008-04-27, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:34:18 -0500, Ignoramus30765
wrote:


On 2008-04-27, Black Dragon wrote:

Steve Lusardi wrote:


Please do not get me wrong. I am not prejudiced against Chinese machines.
They are great value for money, but you need to understand what you are
buying. I have had very good luck with some, but I have really seen some
junk.

I take it you've never seen any of the junk made here in the USA?


I personally have not seen any junk tools made in the USA.


Neither have I, actually...and Im pretty tool savvy.

By junk, I mean the tool either did not function as intended, or broke
much before its expected lifetime, under normal use. I cannot recall a
single instance of a US made tool failing in this manner.


If nothing else, you never bought anything from Searz branded Crapsman
in the late 70s or early 80s, or anything not branded Crapsman at any
other time. Then again, lots of that crap is Chiwanese or Indian, and
both those sources have been producing a MUCH better product in the
last decade or so.

--
As a curmudgeon, I grok that in its entirety.
--LJ


So, if it has a Craftsman lable it has to have been made in the
good ol' USA?

You know better than that!

Richard
--
(remove the X to email)

Now just why the HELL do I have to press 1 for English?
John Wayne

On 2008-04-27, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:31:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus30765 quickly quoth:

On 2008-04-27, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:34:18 -0500, Ignoramus30765
wrote:

On 2008-04-27, Black Dragon wrote:
Steve Lusardi wrote:

Please do not get me wrong. I am not prejudiced against Chinese machines.
They are great value for money, but you need to understand what you are
buying. I have had very good luck with some, but I have really seen some
junk.

I take it you've never seen any of the junk made here in the USA?


I personally have not seen any junk tools made in the USA.


Neither have I, actually...and Im pretty tool savvy.

By junk, I mean the tool either did not function as intended, or broke
much before its expected lifetime, under normal use. I cannot recall a
single instance of a US made tool failing in this manner.

If nothing else, you never bought anything from Searz branded Crapsman
in the late 70s or early 80s, or anything not branded Crapsman at any
other time. Then again, lots of that crap is Chiwanese or Indian, and
both those sources have been producing a MUCH better product in the
last decade or so.


Also, most of the tools I have currently, are cheap imports, though it
is slowly changing as I come across better stuff. So my experience
with US tools is limited, but I have some experience.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:27:12 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:31:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus30765 quickly quoth:


On 2008-04-27, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:34:18 -0500, Ignoramus30765
wrote:


On 2008-04-27, Black Dragon wrote:

Steve Lusardi wrote:


Please do not get me wrong. I am not prejudiced against Chinese machines.
They are great value for money, but you need to understand what you are
buying. I have had very good luck with some, but I have really seen some
junk.

I take it you've never seen any of the junk made here in the USA?


I personally have not seen any junk tools made in the USA.


Neither have I, actually...and Im pretty tool savvy.

By junk, I mean the tool either did not function as intended, or broke
much before its expected lifetime, under normal use. I cannot recall a
single instance of a US made tool failing in this manner.


If nothing else, you never bought anything from Searz branded Crapsman
in the late 70s or early 80s, or anything not branded Crapsman at any
other time. Then again, lots of that crap is Chiwanese or Indian, and
both those sources have been producing a MUCH better product in the
last decade or so.

--
As a curmudgeon, I grok that in its entirety.
--LJ


So, if it has a Craftsman lable it has to have been made in the
good ol' USA?

You know better than that!

Richard


I remember Sears selling versions of both Atlas and South Bend lathes
(I believe under their house name) that weren't exactly Best of Breed.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:31:29 -0500, Ignoramus30765
wrote:

On 2008-04-27, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:34:18 -0500, Ignoramus30765
wrote:

On 2008-04-27, Black Dragon wrote:
Steve Lusardi wrote:

Please do not get me wrong. I am not prejudiced against Chinese machines.
They are great value for money, but you need to understand what you are
buying. I have had very good luck with some, but I have really seen some
junk.

I take it you've never seen any of the junk made here in the USA?


I personally have not seen any junk tools made in the USA.


Neither have I, actually...and Im pretty tool savvy.

By junk, I mean the tool either did not function as intended, or broke
much before its expected lifetime, under normal use. I cannot recall a
single instance of a US made tool failing in this manner.

True if "expected lifetime" is a few hours. Example: Black & Decker
consumer (read disposable) tools long before Asian imports were
common. Homelite chainsaws starting more than a decade ago. Some hand
tools from Stanley and General. Etc etc.

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:31:29 -0500, Ignoramus30765
wrote:

On 2008-04-27, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:34:18 -0500, Ignoramus30765
wrote:

On 2008-04-27, Black Dragon wrote:
Steve Lusardi wrote:

Please do not get me wrong. I am not prejudiced against Chinese machines.
They are great value for money, but you need to understand what you are
buying. I have had very good luck with some, but I have really seen some
junk.

I take it you've never seen any of the junk made here in the USA?


I personally have not seen any junk tools made in the USA.


Neither have I, actually...and Im pretty tool savvy.

By junk, I mean the tool either did not function as intended, or broke
much before its expected lifetime, under normal use. I cannot recall a
single instance of a US made tool failing in this manner.


Well..on reflection..there was Ronco.....but I dont think even their
stuff was US made.

Gunner

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Larry Jaques wrote:

If nothing else, you never bought anything from Searz branded Crapsman
in the late 70s or early 80s, or anything not branded Crapsman at any
other time. Then again, lots of that crap is Chiwanese or Indian, and
both those sources have been producing a MUCH better product in the
last decade or so.

I just about quit buying Craftsman tools for that reason. It seems that just about
everything that Sears sold was slightly modified so one had to go back to them for repairs
/ parts.

The clincher was an item that cost about $15. A Craftsman wire striper. Mine broke. I
took it back and they said they had "discontinued" that item. However, they had the
identical thing on the shelf - probably made by Ideal - with the following exceptions.
The handles had been dipped in yellow plastic instead of blue - or visa versa. Also the
wording on the little "hubcap" that covered the bolt holding the parts together had been
changed from "Craftsman" to "Sears".

I told the man I'd swap him if we could also swap the "hubcap" but he wouldn't allow that.
He told me this one was guaranteed also, but it carried the SEARS guarantee (whatever
that is) instead of the "guaranteed forever" warranty of the Craftsman name.

I bought his tool because I needed one on the job. I refused to trade him and told him
I'd hold on to that broken "Craftsman" tool as a "forever reminder" of what "guaranteed
forever" meant!

I probably still have that broken reminder laying around some place! That was roughly 25
years ago - early to mid 80s.

I may spend $25 per year with them now instead of the $500 plus that I spent with them
before. *Thanks Sears!*

Al

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:13:37 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don
Foreman quickly quoth:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:31:29 -0500, Ignoramus30765
wrote:

By junk, I mean the tool either did not function as intended, or broke
much before its expected lifetime, under normal use. I cannot recall a
single instance of a US made tool failing in this manner.

True if "expected lifetime" is a few hours. Example: Black & Decker
consumer (read disposable) tools long before Asian imports were
common. Homelite chainsaws starting more than a decade ago. Some hand
tools from Stanley and General. Etc etc.

Ditto early Skil, Wen, and a few others.

--
As a curmudgeon, I grok that in its entirety.
--LJ

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:17:27 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

If nothing else, you never bought anything from Searz branded Crapsman
in the late 70s or early 80s, or anything not branded Crapsman at any
other time. Then again, lots of that crap is Chiwanese or Indian, and
both those sources have been producing a MUCH better product in the
last decade or so.

I just about quit buying Craftsman tools for that reason. It seems that just about
everything that Sears sold was slightly modified so one had to go back to them for repairs
/ parts.

The clincher was an item that cost about $15. A Craftsman wire striper. Mine broke. I
took it back and they said they had "discontinued" that item. However, they had the
identical thing on the shelf - probably made by Ideal - with the following exceptions.
The handles had been dipped in yellow plastic instead of blue - or visa versa. Also the
wording on the little "hubcap" that covered the bolt holding the parts together had been
changed from "Craftsman" to "Sears".

I told the man I'd swap him if we could also swap the "hubcap" but he wouldn't allow that.
He told me this one was guaranteed also, but it carried the SEARS guarantee (whatever
that is) instead of the "guaranteed forever" warranty of the Craftsman name.

I bought his tool because I needed one on the job. I refused to trade him and told him
I'd hold on to that broken "Craftsman" tool as a "forever reminder" of what "guaranteed
forever" meant!

I probably still have that broken reminder laying around some place! That was roughly 25
years ago - early to mid 80s.

I may spend $25 per year with them now instead of the $500 plus that I spent with them
before. *Thanks Sears!*

Al
I don't spend that unless I'm broke down on the side of the road next
to a Sears store.

Pete Keillor

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:35:13 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Pete
Keillor quickly quoth:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:17:27 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

If nothing else, you never bought anything from Searz branded Crapsman
in the late 70s or early 80s, or anything not branded Crapsman at any
other time. Then again, lots of that crap is Chiwanese or Indian, and
both those sources have been producing a MUCH better product in the
last decade or so.

I just about quit buying Craftsman tools for that reason.

I did quit and have never bought another single Crapsman tool. The
only reason I darken Searz' doorway any more is to replace yet another
broken tool. Half the ones which break nowadays are no longer made so
they can't even give me an exact replacement any more. The last one
to go was my 1/4" drive screwdriver handle with the 1/4" socket in the
back end. The new ones didn't have that and it was my most used
feature. I ended up on the Searz Customer Service lines for over an
hour, talking with some guy in India. He ended up giving me a $15
check to go spend at the local Searz, and then I couldn't find
anything I needed from them. I ended up with a long sleeved shirt.
sigh Then I went to NAPA and got the replacement handle for $8.


I may spend $25 per year with them now instead of the $500 plus that I spent with them
before. *Thanks Sears!*

Al
I don't spend that unless I'm broke down on the side of the road next
to a Sears store.

I'll walk a mile to any other store, thanks.

I won't spend a cent at a Searz store nowadays, and haven't for nearly
30 years now. F*ck 'em. They screwed themselves. Let 'em live with it.

--
As a curmudgeon, I grok that in its entirety.
--LJ

Larry Jaques wrote:

I won't spend a cent at a Searz store nowadays, and haven't for nearly
30 years now. F*ck 'em. They screwed themselves. Let 'em live with it.


Have you been in a K-mart lately? They no longer have reasonably
priced car batteries, just overpriced 'Tryhards'.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html


Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

"Pete Keillor" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:17:27 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:


snip


I probably still have that broken reminder laying around some place! That
was roughly 25
years ago - early to mid 80s.

I may spend $25 per year with them now instead of the $500 plus that I
spent with them
before. *Thanks Sears!*

Al
I don't spend that unless I'm broke down on the side of the road next
to a Sears store.

Pete Keillor

this is where I could recapitulate my story of a sears allen wrench that
they refused to replace - to make a long and amusing story short, a letter
to corporate headquarters, addressed to the president, with the damaged
wrench and a request for replacement, a copy of the warranty (lifetime) and
a suggestion that they would lose a long term customer and be guilty of
fraud got me a lightning fast response from the local sears store ("I sure
wish you hadn't written that letter"), and a replacement


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **