My January landlord has a custom embroidery business. Her old XP 'puter
died. The very expensive embroidery design software doesn't see the dongle
on her new vista box. An upgrade to vista for this software is $750.

Anyway, has anyone run XP and vista on the same box? I found this tutorial
and find it a bit daunting:
http://www.apcstart.com/5485/dualbooting_vista_and_xp

Will this work well? Other suggestions? Should i tell her to pop for a
second hard disk? NOTE: she didn't get CDs of the OS and software with the
new 'puter so we're hosed if i screw up.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
My January landlord has a custom embroidery business. Her old XP 'puter
died. The very expensive embroidery design software doesn't see the dongle
on her new vista box. An upgrade to vista for this software is $750.

Anyway, has anyone run XP and vista on the same box? I found this tutorial
and find it a bit daunting:
http://www.apcstart.com/5485/dualbooting_vista_and_xp

Will this work well? Other suggestions? Should i tell her to pop for a
second hard disk? NOTE: she didn't get CDs of the OS and software with the
new 'puter so we're hosed if i screw up.


Hmm, Vista not supporting "old" hardware. What a shock.

Will this app work on Win2000? Buy a copy off ebuy and remove XP. Never
did like the phone home feature.

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
: My January landlord has a custom embroidery business. Her old XP 'puter
: died. The very expensive embroidery design software doesn't see the dongle
: on her new vista box. An upgrade to vista for this software is $750.
:
: Anyway, has anyone run XP and vista on the same box? I found this tutorial
: and find it a bit daunting:
: http://www.apcstart.com/5485/dualbooting_vista_and_xp
:
: Will this work well? Other suggestions? Should i tell her to pop for a
: second hard disk? NOTE: she didn't get CDs of the OS and software with the
: new 'puter so we're hosed if i screw up.
:
: Karl
:
:

You should try Miscosoft's Virtual PC
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...c/default.mspx
It's free and has worked for me many times to cure incompatibilities with OSs and hardware
and software. There are other similar softs, Google "virtual machine", but I like MS the
best. I believe there is a way to get Vista to work directly if you can just find the
right switch or compatibility mode. Sorry, I don't know Vista better. Let me know how it
all works out.
:

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:10:02 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

My January landlord has a custom embroidery business. Her old XP 'puter
died. The very expensive embroidery design software doesn't see the dongle
on her new vista box. An upgrade to vista for this software is $750.

Anyway, has anyone run XP and vista on the same box? I found this tutorial
and find it a bit daunting:
http://www.apcstart.com/5485/dualbooting_vista_and_xp

Will this work well? Other suggestions? Should i tell her to pop for a
second hard disk? NOTE: she didn't get CDs of the OS and software with the
new 'puter so we're hosed if i screw up.

Karl


Why run Vista? It sucks badly.

google "xp most wanted" version

Indian kid modded Xp pretty well, and its available on the net free.
Pirate ware of course, but it runs very well. Ahum...or so its
claimed..aherm....

Gunner

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:10:02 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

My January landlord has a custom embroidery business. Her old XP 'puter
died. The very expensive embroidery design software doesn't see the
dongle
on her new vista box. An upgrade to vista for this software is $750.

Anyway, has anyone run XP and vista on the same box? I found this tutorial
and find it a bit daunting:
http://www.apcstart.com/5485/dualbooting_vista_and_xp

Will this work well? Other suggestions? Should i tell her to pop for a
second hard disk? NOTE: she didn't get CDs of the OS and software with
the
new 'puter so we're hosed if i screw up.

Karl


Why run Vista? It sucks badly.

google "xp most wanted" version

Indian kid modded Xp pretty well, and its available on the net free.
Pirate ware of course, but it runs very well. Ahum...or so its
claimed..aherm....

Gunner

I've used that version I think, it's missing a few things to make room for
other things. Way cool! See my post on moding XP. The problem with some
new boxes is that they don't HAVE xp drivers available, so modified OS don't
help any.

Vista ain't so bad if you have a new box with LOTS of horsepower and tons of
memory. It's all there, just figure out where to find it. I'll wait for
SP2 before I commit critical people or applications...it's pretty, though
bloaty.

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:10:02 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

,;My January landlord has a custom embroidery business. Her old XP 'puter
,;died. The very expensive embroidery design software doesn't see the dongle
,;on her new vista box. An upgrade to vista for this software is $750.
,;
,;Anyway, has anyone run XP and vista on the same box? I found this tutorial
,;and find it a bit daunting:
,;http://www.apcstart.com/5485/dualbooting_vista_and_xp

Well daunting is in the eye of the beholder. There are some hooks in
there for the novice but if followed properly it will work.
,;
,;Will this work well? Other suggestions? Should i tell her to pop for a
,;second hard disk? NOTE: she didn't get CDs of the OS and software with the
,;new 'puter so we're hosed if i screw up.

There probably is a restore partition on the new computer HD. Call
them and tell them you trashed the OS trying to set up XP dual boot
and what should you do. They should give you a CD. At least you will
find out if they will restore the new box if you goof.

She probably already has a HD from the trashed computer. If it is the
HD that went belly up then a new HD in the old computer would fix the
problem. If you dual boot you will need a second HD or a separate
partition. Don't try to run two OS on one partition.

Yes that procedure will work. The downside is that XP will destroy all
of your Vista restore points. Yes I run vista and XP on the same box.
If you run XP be sure to create a new restore point when you go back
to Vista.

The first thing I would do is try to run Vista in compatibility mode.

1. Right Click the program you want to run (the exe file)
2. Click on properties
3. Select “Compatibility” in top bar
4. Check the box “Run this program in compatibility mode for:”
5. Select the Operating system which your software supports (XP in
this case)
6. Click on “Apply”
7. Now run the program

This probably won't work if it is a dongle problem but is worth a try.

If that doesn't work I would pick up a box that will run XP. You
already have the OS and I assume the key. I pick up these boxes at
school and give them away. I used to pick up free functioning boxes at
the recycling center that would run XP. I don't bother any longer
because I have more than my wife will tolerate already. You should be
able to find a box for less than $100 and presumably you have some
parts from the trashed computer.

In the past before I found so many free ones I used to buy from
Retrobox. They have been purchased but the same low price deals are
there. No connection and the stuff I bought was as advertised.

Try

http://www.intechraoutlet.com/rbwww/...p?bin_id=world

Pick "PC computers" and then reverse the price so you can get to the
cheapies first. I just looked at the first one and for $79 you could
get a Pentium III that would do the job.

Virtual PC is free and will run on XP on your new box. There are some
hooks in that too. My choice if compatibility mode didn't work would
be a second box (cheap).

why not just get an XP license or an XP computer?

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
My January landlord has a custom embroidery business. Her old XP 'puter
died. The very expensive embroidery design software doesn't see the
dongle on her new vista box. An upgrade to vista for this software is
$750.

Anyway, has anyone run XP and vista on the same box? I found this tutorial
and find it a bit daunting:
http://www.apcstart.com/5485/dualbooting_vista_and_xp

Will this work well? Other suggestions? Should i tell her to pop for a
second hard disk? NOTE: she didn't get CDs of the OS and software with
the new 'puter so we're hosed if i screw up.

Karl






--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

OK, you and all the other posts convinced me.

My landlord is returning the Vista box and I'm on the look for an XP box.
Doesn't look to be too hard to find.

Karl

many sellers of new systems offer the system with XP if you insist - I
believe Gateway and Dell are two that offer this - but you might save $$ to
buy two or three used XP machines and put them aside - probably $50 to $100
each, as one dies, fire up the next

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
OK, you and all the other posts convinced me.

My landlord is returning the Vista box and I'm on the look for an XP box.
Doesn't look to be too hard to find.

Karl





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:31:57 -0500, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:10:02 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

My January landlord has a custom embroidery business. Her old XP 'puter
died. The very expensive embroidery design software doesn't see the
dongle
on her new vista box. An upgrade to vista for this software is $750.

Anyway, has anyone run XP and vista on the same box? I found this tutorial
and find it a bit daunting:
http://www.apcstart.com/5485/dualbooting_vista_and_xp

Will this work well? Other suggestions? Should i tell her to pop for a
second hard disk? NOTE: she didn't get CDs of the OS and software with
the
new 'puter so we're hosed if i screw up.

Karl


Why run Vista? It sucks badly.

google "xp most wanted" version

Indian kid modded Xp pretty well, and its available on the net free.
Pirate ware of course, but it runs very well. Ahum...or so its
claimed..aherm....

Gunner

I've used that version I think, it's missing a few things to make room for
other things. Way cool! See my post on moding XP. The problem with some
new boxes is that they don't HAVE xp drivers available, so modified OS don't
help any.

Vista ain't so bad if you have a new box with LOTS of horsepower and tons of
memory. It's all there, just figure out where to find it. I'll wait for
SP2 before I commit critical people or applications...it's pretty, though
bloaty.

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:31:57 -0500, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

Why run Vista? It sucks badly.

google "xp most wanted" version

Indian kid modded Xp pretty well, and its available on the net free.
Pirate ware of course, but it runs very well. Ahum...or so its
claimed..aherm....

Gunner

I've used that version I think, it's missing a few things to make room for
other things. Way cool! See my post on moding XP. The problem with some
new boxes is that they don't HAVE xp drivers available, so modified OS don't
help any.


It loaded up everything I..er..a friend..yah..thats it..a friend had
on board and then proceeded to download all the drivers and updates
from MS. And there is a working crack for the WGA validation crapola
as well.

Gunner

If the manufacturer of the embroidery equipment and software can't provide a
solution, it's probably futile in terms of convenience or cost
effectiveness.

If the new machine is a Compaq/HP product, you can probably order the
system discs from the manufacturers website (about $16 delivered), at least
I could/did last summer when I got a new Compaq 3.4GHz PC with Vistasucks
Home Basicsucks on it.

HP saved maybe, $2 by not including the discs in the box, to get ~$14 for
them from buyers that would take the time to order them.

As it turns out, the machine itself isn't that good either.. no boot from
USB devices, way too little RAM included, incapable of getting along well
with the other children (brand new, current model HP printer), insufficient
video capabilities, and on and on.

If the machine mentioned has Home Basicsucks on it, that version is very
limited in features, compared to the other versions which cost insane money
amounts, considering that they're just more ****MSsucks products.
Looking at the list of features, one can see that the HBsucks version has
about 15% of the features of the crazy-expensive versions, such as
crippled/severely-limited backup limitations.
To copy an external HD's contents to DVD should be a very simple task, but
not really.
BTW, I think the "call home", report to HQ, etc, features can be shut off if
the user doesn't want updates (I don't).

Hardware issues, really? Not with Vistasucks. Just another ****MSsucks
product to fuel the market, by requiring purchases of more third-party
products.
The off-the-store-shelf machines never come with enough RAM, the buyer had
better at least double it (Crucial or other memory websites), and buy all
new peripherals (scanner, printer, camera etc) or tolerate problems in
getting non-vistasucks-hardware to perform as well as it did with older
****MSsucks products.

I've told people I know that I'll gouge my eyes out (with a rusty old piece
of HSS), before I use another MSsucks product.

I did get about 10 varieties of linux from an eBay seller (for about $2/disc
delivered), but haven't spent the time to get familiar with it/them, (and
the no boot from USB issue mentioned above, to make it much easier).

The bottom line here, is that most of the new technology crap doesn't have
any reality-based appreciable value.
Metalworking tools and machines are capable of performing real tasks and
doing/performing real work, which is why I can appreciate that equipment so
much more than any craptech gizmo that makes a pretty screen display or
prints in colors.
Crayons do the same thing when rubbed on paper (or freshly painted walls).

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
My January landlord has a custom embroidery business. Her old XP 'puter
died. The very expensive embroidery design software doesn't see the
dongle on her new vista box. An upgrade to vista for this software is
$750.

Anyway, has anyone run XP and vista on the same box? I found this tutorial
and find it a bit daunting:
http://www.apcstart.com/5485/dualbooting_vista_and_xp

Will this work well? Other suggestions? Should i tell her to pop for a
second hard disk? NOTE: she didn't get CDs of the OS and software with
the new 'puter so we're hosed if i screw up.

Karl

HP is well known for its penchant for screwing its customers in many,
very creative, ways.

I find that of all Linux distros, Ubuntu is the best by far. I tried
Fedora (was a RH/Fedora user for 10 years+), Debian and Ubuntu.

i

Thanks for the linux tip, Ig. Ubuntu is one or two of the new discs I have
on hand, and I've had the older version for a couple of years, but didn't
try using it on my old, slow Win98 machine.

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Ignoramus10310" wrote in message
...
HP is well known for its penchant for screwing its customers in many,
very creative, ways.

I find that of all Linux distros, Ubuntu is the best by far. I tried
Fedora (was a RH/Fedora user for 10 years+), Debian and Ubuntu.

i

On 2008-01-11, Wild_Bill wrote:
Thanks for the linux tip, Ig. Ubuntu is one or two of the new discs I have
on hand, and I've had the older version for a couple of years, but didn't
try using it on my old, slow Win98 machine.

Try the 7.10 version, it works, if you have any questions, post them
here.

i

WB
.........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Ignoramus10310" wrote in message
...
HP is well known for its penchant for screwing its customers in many,
very creative, ways.

I find that of all Linux distros, Ubuntu is the best by far. I tried
Fedora (was a RH/Fedora user for 10 years+), Debian and Ubuntu.

i

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:31:57 -0500, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

Why run Vista? It sucks badly.

google "xp most wanted" version

Indian kid modded Xp pretty well, and its available on the net free.
Pirate ware of course, but it runs very well. Ahum...or so its
claimed..aherm....

Gunner

I've used that version I think, it's missing a few things to make room for
other things. Way cool! See my post on moding XP. The problem with some
new boxes is that they don't HAVE xp drivers available, so modified OS
don't
help any.


It loaded up everything I..er..a friend..yah..thats it..a friend had
on board and then proceeded to download all the drivers and updates
from MS. And there is a working crack for the WGA validation crapola
as well.

Gunner

I have two personal boxes running Vista U, one for playing "Bioshock" and
one at work to explore in spare time. Directx 10 in Bioshock is WAY cool!
I'm wiping the drive at work because I don't do anything useful on it.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:02:23 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Thanks for the linux tip, Ig. Ubuntu is one or two of the new discs I have
on hand, and I've had the older version for a couple of years, but didn't
try using it on my old, slow Win98 machine.
============
I had the same thing. However when I installed 7.10 with its
apparently much better use of computer resources, and lower
demand, the performance improved greatly, and became entirely
adequate for several uses. I also note that several perepherials
that stopped working when I upgraded another box to w2k,
specificaly a printer and scanner [seperate], work perfectly with
7.10

One thing to remember is that if you have an older computer
limited to 256meg or so of memory the "Live CD" may not
load/function and you will have to download (and burn a cd) of
the version which is install only.
click on
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
scroll to the bottom and check the box "Check here if you need
the alternate desktop CD. This CD does not include the Live CD,
instead it uses a text-based installer."

The server edition [text based / command line] can be used on
systems with more limited resources than the console [GUI]
version.

After doing a few of these, I suggest reformating the hard drive,
checking for read/write sector errors, and starting from scratch
with a clean disk for a linux only box. If you are going for a
dual boot system, be sure and get Windows installed and running
*FIRST*.

The one item you may have problems with, if you have a POTS
internet connection, is the [win]modem. If you have a high-speed
connection with a router you should have no problems.

Good luck, and let the group know how you make out.

On 2008-01-11, Ignoramus10310 wrote:
HP is well known for its penchant for screwing its customers in many,
very creative, ways.

I find that of all Linux distros, Ubuntu is the best by far. I tried
Fedora (was a RH/Fedora user for 10 years+), Debian and Ubuntu.

As you know, I am accustomed to using unix systems by
preference.

However, I occasionally need to run programs which come with
devices to perform updates -- and often these are made only for Windows
and Macs.

I will *not* allow my old unpatched Windows 2000 pro onto the
outside net, because I don't know enough about Windows to properly
secure it -- and I suspect that Microsoft doesn't either.

So -- I just recently got a Mac Mini (tiny little box with a
dual-core Intel processor, 80 GB of internal disk, and 1GB of RAM), and
am using it for such purposes. It is built around unix, and while it
took a while to find my way around some of the weird things which they
did, I am now able to log into it over the LAN just like any of my unix
boxen. It is still behind the firewall, so it is protected from external
attack, and I'm not seriously worried about a virus for it -- though
they are possible, I'm not likely to run things which would infect it,
even if there were any serious viruses in the wild. I don't use it for
e-mail at all.

And -- unlike recent versions of Windows, it does not insist on
reporting home whenever I want to change any hardware.

Oh -- speaking of hardware -- it comes without a keyboard or a
mouse (both USB interface), so I am happily using some recent ones from
Sun -- with the Control key to the left of the 'A' key, as God intended. :-)

And I've just gotten through trying my first NFS mount of a
filesystem from the unix server onto the Mac Mini. It works nicely.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-01-11, Wild_Bill wrote:
"Ignoramus10310" wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

I find that of all Linux distros, Ubuntu is the best by far. I tried
Fedora (was a RH/Fedora user for 10 years+), Debian and Ubuntu.

Thanks for the linux tip, Ig. Ubuntu is one or two of the new discs I have
on hand, and I've had the older version for a couple of years, but didn't
try using it on my old, slow Win98 machine.

Why not? I'll bet that it runs a lot faster than Win98 on the
same hardware. :-) (Of course, while running from CD-ROM, it will be
slow, but not so once you have it on a real hard disk. Just about any
flavor of unix which will run on the hardware will be faster than
Windows on the same hardware.

Of course -- the more "eye candy" you want to use, the slower it
will get. For the fastest behavior, run it command-line only.
Otherwise, try some of the less cpu-intensive window managers with X11.
Gnome seems to be one of the most cpu-intensive ones, though there are
people who really love the appearance, so it is your choice.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-01-11, F George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:02:23 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Thanks for the linux tip, Ig. Ubuntu is one or two of the new discs I have
on hand, and I've had the older version for a couple of years, but didn't
try using it on my old, slow Win98 machine.
============
I had the same thing. However when I installed 7.10 with its
apparently much better use of computer resources, and lower
demand, the performance improved greatly, and became entirely
adequate for several uses. I also note that several perepherials
that stopped working when I upgraded another box to w2k,
specificaly a printer and scanner [seperate], work perfectly with
7.10

[ ... ]

The one item you may have problems with, if you have a POTS
internet connection, is the [win]modem. If you have a high-speed
connection with a router you should have no problems.

Also -- if you still have an external modem which connects to a
serial port on the computer, instead of being a card which hides inside
the computer, that will work fine. The winmodems replace some of the
modem hardware with software hidden in the Windows system, and (like
most things Windows) it is a proprietary format, so it is difficult for
the developers of linux, BSD or other unix variants to get enough
information to make them work.

But an external modem has another advantage -- in virus
or "call home" detection. If you know your dialup net connection is
supposed to be down, and the modem lights start flickering, you know
that it is time to quickly reach for the phone cable connector in the
back and unplug it until you discover what is trying to call out. For
this reason, the modem should be located just an eye-flick away from the
monitor, so you are more likely to notice it.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-01-12, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-01-11, Ignoramus10310 wrote:
HP is well known for its penchant for screwing its customers in many,
very creative, ways.

I find that of all Linux distros, Ubuntu is the best by far. I tried
Fedora (was a RH/Fedora user for 10 years+), Debian and Ubuntu.

As you know, I am accustomed to using unix systems by
preference.

However, I occasionally need to run programs which come with
devices to perform updates -- and often these are made only for Windows
and Macs.

I will *not* allow my old unpatched Windows 2000 pro onto the
outside net, because I don't know enough about Windows to properly
secure it -- and I suspect that Microsoft doesn't either.

I had a Windows computer (with pirated Windows XP). After a "Windows
Genuine Advantage" update, my system said that it is pirated and that
I did not have a genuine advantage. That basically bricked my XP. It
never was able to even boot to completion or work.

I did not use it for 1.5 years and did not miss it in any way and used
Linux exclusively at home. I have linux on my server, my son't
computer, plasma TV computer and my laptop.

The XP machine was finally fixed, but I no longer care to use it for
anything. I also do not like to accidentally get viruses into my
home.

Running Explorer on windows is enough to get it hacked.

I also treat that windows box as untrusted.

One person I knew, had a kid's windows computer infected by spam
zombie software. That computer started sending spam like
mad. Fortunately it was behind a Linux firewall, so we turned it off
remotely from work.

IOW, a firewall does not prevent a computer from being infected by
viruses, it only blocks *some* scenarios.

So -- I just recently got a Mac Mini (tiny little box with a
dual-core Intel processor, 80 GB of internal disk, and 1GB of RAM), and
am using it for such purposes. It is built around unix, and while it
took a while to find my way around some of the weird things which they
did, I am now able to log into it over the LAN just like any of my unix
boxen. It is still behind the firewall, so it is protected from external
attack, and I'm not seriously worried about a virus for it -- though
they are possible, I'm not likely to run things which would infect it,
even if there were any serious viruses in the wild. I don't use it for
e-mail at all.

And -- unlike recent versions of Windows, it does not insist on
reporting home whenever I want to change any hardware.

Oh -- speaking of hardware -- it comes without a keyboard or a
mouse (both USB interface), so I am happily using some recent ones from
Sun -- with the Control key to the left of the 'A' key, as God intended. :-)

And I've just gotten through trying my first NFS mount of a
filesystem from the unix server onto the Mac Mini. It works nicely.

Mac is basically FreeBSD with Apple custom GUI. I saw a mac book once
and was impressed.

i

On 2008-01-12, DoN. Nichols wrote:
Also -- if you still have an external modem which connects to a
serial port on the computer, instead of being a card which hides inside
the computer, that will work fine. The winmodems replace some of the
modem hardware with software hidden in the Windows system, and (like
most things Windows) it is a proprietary format, so it is difficult for
the developers of linux, BSD or other unix variants to get enough
information to make them work.

winmodems to external modems, are like dollar store 12v drills to a
18v Dewalt drill. They are cheap crap.

i

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:16:23 -0600, Ignoramus10310
wrote:

On 2008-01-11, Wild_Bill wrote:
Thanks for the linux tip, Ig. Ubuntu is one or two of the new discs I have
on hand, and I've had the older version for a couple of years, but didn't
try using it on my old, slow Win98 machine.

Try the 7.10 version, it works, if you have any questions, post them
here.

My big issue with most versions of Linux, Xandros being the exception,
is the **** poor way it handles dialup internet connections, let alone
finding the modem.

Ive been stockpiling USR 56K external modems. I can pick em up at the
second hand stores for $2.

You cant get any more plain jane, vanilla than a USR external modem.

Yet half the time most versions of Linux wont find the sombitch. And
if it does, it may dial out after some interminable
wait..connect..then simply sit there.

Open a browser...404...no modem light activity.

Ive tried a half dozen versions of PPP etc etc

I LIKE being able to bypass Micro**** products, but dialup support
sucks with most linux.

And I still dont understand why they, when they do dial out..simply
sit there like a brightly lit turd.

Its not rocket science to actually communcate via a modem, without
going through all manner of bull**** changes to obscure config files
and what not.

Ive tried Supra modems, yada yada yada...changed At codes, the full
monty...and it sucks.

Im currently running Xandros 4 OCE on one of my boxes, not that I
really like it..but it actually dials out and connects.

WTF, over?

Gunner

i

WB
.........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Ignoramus10310" wrote in message
...
HP is well known for its penchant for screwing its customers in many,
very creative, ways.

I find that of all Linux distros, Ubuntu is the best by far. I tried
Fedora (was a RH/Fedora user for 10 years+), Debian and Ubuntu.

i

On 12 Jan 2008 01:53:05 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


Also -- if you still have an external modem which connects to a
serial port on the computer, instead of being a card which hides inside
the computer, that will work fine.


See my previous rant.

Gunner

Ignoramus10310 writes:

Mac is basically FreeBSD with Apple custom GUI.

I thought it was based on the Mach 3.0 kernel


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Sense this thread had turned into an OS rant, I'll add mine.

I don't understand all the hubbub over Linix. It doesn't run applications!
Why o' why all the interest in something that is only good for a file server
and internet communication? of course there are some apps for Linux, but
nowhere near enough to ever consider it seriously for a work computer.

Karl

On 2008-01-12, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:16:23 -0600, Ignoramus10310
wrote:

On 2008-01-11, Wild_Bill wrote:
Thanks for the linux tip, Ig. Ubuntu is one or two of the new discs I have
on hand, and I've had the older version for a couple of years, but didn't
try using it on my old, slow Win98 machine.

Try the 7.10 version, it works, if you have any questions, post them
here.

My big issue with most versions of Linux, Xandros being the exception,
is the **** poor way it handles dialup internet connections, let alone
finding the modem.

Ive been stockpiling USR 56K external modems. I can pick em up at the
second hand stores for $2.

You cant get any more plain jane, vanilla than a USR external modem.

Yet half the time most versions of Linux wont find the sombitch. And
if it does, it may dial out after some interminable
wait..connect..then simply sit there.

Open a browser...404...no modem light activity.

Ive tried a half dozen versions of PPP etc etc

I LIKE being able to bypass Micro**** products, but dialup support
sucks with most linux.

And I still dont understand why they, when they do dial out..simply
sit there like a brightly lit turd.

Its not rocket science to actually communcate via a modem, without
going through all manner of bull**** changes to obscure config files
and what not.

Ive tried Supra modems, yada yada yada...changed At codes, the full
monty...and it sucks.

Im currently running Xandros 4 OCE on one of my boxes, not that I
really like it..but it actually dials out and connects.


The best modem dialer that I found is "wvdial". You edit its
configuration "/etc/wvdial.conf", and type wvdial on command line as
root. You can automate this and do it at boot. I used a modem from
1995 to about '2000. It was always very straightforward. I also used
it on vacation in Mexico. It was detected.

i

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:58:13 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote:
Sense this thread had turned into an OS rant, I'll add mine.

I don't understand all the hubbub over Linix. It doesn't run applications!

It doesn't? Then, I must be doing it wrong.

Why o' why all the interest in something that is only good for a file server
and internet communication? of course there are some apps for Linux, but
nowhere near enough to ever consider it seriously for a work computer.

Yeah, my employer is doing it wrong too then. If you're serious and not
trolling, what specific apps do you feel Linux does not have? 10 or 15
years ago, your statements might have had some basis but today, not so
much.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:17:37 -0800, Gunner
wrote:
snip
And I still dont understand why they, when they do dial out..simply
sit there like a brightly lit turd.

Its not rocket science to actually communcate via a modem, without
going through all manner of bull**** changes to obscure config files
and what not.

Ive tried Supra modems, yada yada yada...changed At codes, the full
monty...and it sucks.

Im currently running Xandros 4 OCE on one of my boxes, not that I
really like it..but it actually dials out and connects.

WTF, over?
=======================
This appears to be the result of "value analysis" and cost
reduction.

The result is the so-called winmodem, which is less than a full
stand-alone RS232 modem, in that it not only depends on the
computer/programs for much of its operating instructions/control
but also its power supply.

I have not gone into this in depth, but the modem manufacturers
noted that the huge majority of their products were being used
with MS Windows running on faster computers with more memory, and
it was therefore possible to reduce the component
count/complexity in the modem by shifting much of what had been
internal modem control functions to a program(s) running in the
background on the computer.

The modem [chip set] makers, and of course M$, have been
reluctant to make the details of the Winmodems and the required
operations/control programs available so Linux drivers could be
developed. I can understand their point -- proprietary
information, competitive advantage, yada-yada-yada... Still, its
a PITA for people who want to use Linux.

There are a number of websites with work-arounds, patches, etc.
but nothing that is clean [in the sense of load-n-go],
particularly for laptops with integral POTS modems.
google on winmodem linux for 54k hits

To start click on
http://www.linmodems.org/
http://www.linux.com/base/ldp/howto/...nux-HOWTO.html
http://www.linux.com/base/ldp/howto/.../hardware.html
http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/...dems_and_Linux
http://www.modemsite.com/56k/ltwin3.asp

Hope this helps.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:58:13 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
snip
of course there are some apps for Linux, but
nowhere near enough to ever consider it seriously for a work computer.
============
Much depends on what you use your work computer for, but the Open
Office Suite [word processor, database, spreadsheet, and
presentation manager] and the extensions such as the schedular,
with FireFox (with its add-ins), appears to meet most
requirements, and the price is right [free]

click on
http://www.openoffice.org/
and then on
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project

About the only shortcomings I have noted are the lack of a
label/envelope printing option in the word processor (which may
be added shortly), and the inability to run M$ word
templates/macros, neither of which is a show stopper.

The Ubuntu solitaire card graphics aren't to good either...

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:55:47 -0600, Ignoramus10310 wrote:

On 2008-01-12, DoN. Nichols wrote:
Also -- if you still have an external modem which connects to a
serial port on the computer, instead of being a card which hides inside
the computer, that will work fine. The winmodems replace some of the
modem hardware with software hidden in the Windows system, and (like
most things Windows) it is a proprietary format, so it is difficult for
the developers of linux, BSD or other unix variants to get enough
information to make them work.

winmodems to external modems, are like dollar store 12v drills to a 18v
Dewalt drill. They are cheap crap.

i

I found one internal PCI modem that works well with linux, but it's a
hardware modem with it's own controller. USR5610C... works fine.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:53:40 -0600, Ignoramus30324
wrote:

On 2008-01-12, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:16:23 -0600, Ignoramus10310
wrote:

On 2008-01-11, Wild_Bill wrote:
Thanks for the linux tip, Ig. Ubuntu is one or two of the new discs I have
on hand, and I've had the older version for a couple of years, but didn't
try using it on my old, slow Win98 machine.

Try the 7.10 version, it works, if you have any questions, post them
here.

My big issue with most versions of Linux, Xandros being the exception,
is the **** poor way it handles dialup internet connections, let alone
finding the modem.

Ive been stockpiling USR 56K external modems. I can pick em up at the
second hand stores for $2.

You cant get any more plain jane, vanilla than a USR external modem.

Yet half the time most versions of Linux wont find the sombitch. And
if it does, it may dial out after some interminable
wait..connect..then simply sit there.

Open a browser...404...no modem light activity.

Ive tried a half dozen versions of PPP etc etc

I LIKE being able to bypass Micro**** products, but dialup support
sucks with most linux.

And I still dont understand why they, when they do dial out..simply
sit there like a brightly lit turd.

Its not rocket science to actually communcate via a modem, without
going through all manner of bull**** changes to obscure config files
and what not.

Ive tried Supra modems, yada yada yada...changed At codes, the full
monty...and it sucks.

Im currently running Xandros 4 OCE on one of my boxes, not that I
really like it..but it actually dials out and connects.


The best modem dialer that I found is "wvdial". You edit its
configuration "/etc/wvdial.conf", and type wvdial on command line as
root. You can automate this and do it at boot. I used a modem from
1995 to about '2000. It was always very straightforward. I also used
it on vacation in Mexico. It was detected.

i
So now we are back to commandline stuff and modifying config files.

Guner

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:02:30 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:17:37 -0800, Gunner
wrote:
snip
And I still dont understand why they, when they do dial out..simply
sit there like a brightly lit turd.

Its not rocket science to actually communcate via a modem, without
going through all manner of bull**** changes to obscure config files
and what not.

Ive tried Supra modems, yada yada yada...changed At codes, the full
monty...and it sucks.

Im currently running Xandros 4 OCE on one of my boxes, not that I
really like it..but it actually dials out and connects.

WTF, over?
=======================
This appears to be the result of "value analysis" and cost
reduction.

The result is the so-called winmodem, which is less than a full
stand-alone RS232 modem, in that it not only depends on the
computer/programs for much of its operating instructions/control
but also its power supply.

I have not gone into this in depth, but the modem manufacturers
noted that the huge majority of their products were being used
with MS Windows running on faster computers with more memory, and
it was therefore possible to reduce the component
count/complexity in the modem by shifting much of what had been
internal modem control functions to a program(s) running in the
background on the computer.

The modem [chip set] makers, and of course M$, have been
reluctant to make the details of the Winmodems and the required
operations/control programs available so Linux drivers could be
developed. I can understand their point -- proprietary
information, competitive advantage, yada-yada-yada... Still, its
a PITA for people who want to use Linux.

There are a number of websites with work-arounds, patches, etc.
but nothing that is clean [in the sense of load-n-go],
particularly for laptops with integral POTS modems.
google on winmodem linux for 54k hits

To start click on
http://www.linmodems.org/
http://www.linux.com/base/ldp/howto/...nux-HOWTO.html
http://www.linux.com/base/ldp/howto/.../hardware.html
http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/...dems_and_Linux
http://www.modemsite.com/56k/ltwin3.asp

Hope this helps.


Thanks George..but what part of USR External Modem did you miss?
Little white/cream colored thingy..about the size of a small Sees
candy box with a row of red LEDs on the top, hooks to the serial port
with a cable....


Gunner

Gunner, I forgot something regarding modems.

The new Linux distros, for example Ubuntu and Fedora, include Network
Manager. It is an icon in the top right. Click on it to configure it
and you can configure the modem settings from a GUI window, and then
just run it from the menu. It actually works.

i

I run the following apps on linux:

- browser
- office
- email
- Pidgin (instant messaging with all platforms)
- editor
- newsreader
- movie viewer

i

Yeah, my employer is doing it wrong too then. If you're serious and not
trolling, what specific apps do you feel Linux does not have? 10 or 15
years ago, your statements might have had some basis but today, not so
much.

Well, my work has a metalworking bent. Camsoft runs my CNC machines. I use
AutoCad 2007 for design. My son uses Autodesk Inventor and Mastercam X2 on
my box to write the CNC programs.

I also use FoxPro to run our sales, payroll, and inventory application. Huge
custom program - no way I am re-writing it.

My wife uses Quick Books Pro. My landlord has an app to design embroidry.

None of this stuff is available on linux.

Karl

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:33:43 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote:

Yeah, my employer is doing it wrong too then. If you're serious and not
trolling, what specific apps do you feel Linux does not have? 10 or 15
years ago, your statements might have had some basis but today, not so
much.

Well, my work has a metalworking bent. Camsoft runs my CNC machines. I use
AutoCad 2007 for design. My son uses Autodesk Inventor and Mastercam X2 on
my box to write the CNC programs.

Ah, so what you're saying, is that you'd have to _change_ which tool you
use to get the same job done. Sometimes, yeah. Other apps work just
fine under WINE in Windows if you're tied to them.

I also use FoxPro to run our sales, payroll, and inventory application. Huge
custom program - no way I am re-writing it.
My wife uses Quick Books Pro. My landlord has an app to design embroidry.

None of this stuff is available on linux.

If you're tied to specific titles and have no interest in finding an app
which can interoperate with those files, sure. But your statement of
"no apps run on Linux" or whatever the wording is, is clearly false.
You might have to learn to click on StarOffice rather than Microsoft
Office, but, just because MS Office doesn't work on Linux, you can do
nearly everything with one that the other can do. I've only found one
very complex Excel spreadsheet that didn't just transparently work just
fine on OpenOffice, for instance.

Doesn't hurt my feelings if it doesn't meet your specific needs, but
trying to say there aren't any apps for Linux was rediculous 10 years
ago, and I'm amazed to see anyone who still says it today. Ignorance
and/or ties to legacy apps are fine, but please don't spread complete
falsehoods.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:21:02 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus30324 quickly quoth:

I run the following apps on linux:

- browser
- office
- email
- Pidgin (instant messaging with all platforms)
- editor
- newsreader
- movie viewer

What does "instant messaging" have that email doesn't? Online chat
function?

---
Chaos, panic, and disorder--my work here is done.

On 2008-01-13, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:21:02 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus30324 quickly quoth:

I run the following apps on linux:

- browser
- office
- email
- Pidgin (instant messaging with all platforms)
- editor
- newsreader
- movie viewer

What does "instant messaging" have that email doesn't? Online chat
function?

Yes, it is instant chat. Yahoo messenger, google messenger, MSN, AOL,
ICQ, that's what pidgin does. It is available under Windows too.

i

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:39:36 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus30324 quickly quoth:

On 2008-01-13, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:21:02 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus30324 quickly quoth:

I run the following apps on linux:

- browser
- office
- email
- Pidgin (instant messaging with all platforms)
- editor
- newsreader
- movie viewer

What does "instant messaging" have that email doesn't? Online chat
function?

Yes, it is instant chat. Yahoo messenger, google messenger, MSN, AOL,
ICQ, that's what pidgin does. It is available under Windows too.

Why use IM vs email or phone?

---
Chaos, panic, and disorder--my work here is done.