I can't believe it's come to this. At work I'm getting really
busy, really quickly, and one R&D project alone I could devote the
next six months to full time, unfortunately at the loss of my other
projects. It was suggested by the project manager of that particular
project that I see if I could find someone outside my company that
would be willing to help me out with a bunch of the work. The bulk of
the work that I need help with is wiring control panels, done off
premise, which is not as value-added as my uppers would like it to be.
I'm in the Seattle area and while I understand that all the
skilled folks are working full time, so I'm kinda thinking someone
retired, other folks looking for side work, or small shops. Most of
the equipment relates to heater controls, thermocouple wiring, RS-232,
smart motors, relays, 4-20mA, and other signal wiring. Most stuff is
in 19" boxes. This person would be working directly for me, not the
company, although someone else in the company on the project would be
providing payment on a direct basis (no fancy contracts, mostly word
of mouth.) I'd provide all the major parts, a lot of the smaller
stuff, diagrams (some pencil on paper, some wire lists, some worse,)
and high quality expectations. I'm easy to work for, providing that I
don't need to hold anyone's hand, and am casual about everything but
good quality work.
If anyone is interested or knows of someone or a small shop that
is capable of the work, I'm highly interested. I've never been in
this sort of position before, so I'm at a loss about how to go about
dealing with this, so any guidance someone would like to offer would
be greatly appreciated. You can reply to me directly if you'd like.

On Jan 4, 6:29*pm, Carl M wrote:
* * *I can't believe it's come to this. *At work I'm getting really
busy, really quickly, and one R&D project alone I could devote the
next six months to full time, unfortunately at the loss of my other
projects. *It was suggested by the project manager of that particular
project that I see if I could find someone outside my company that
would be willing to help me out with a bunch of the work. *The bulk of
the work that I need help with is wiring control panels, done off
premise, which is not as value-added as my uppers would like it to be.
* * *I'm in the Seattle area and while I understand that all the
skilled folks are working full time, so I'm kinda thinking someone
retired, other folks looking for side work, or small shops. *Most of
the equipment relates to heater controls, thermocouple wiring, RS-232,
smart motors, relays, 4-20mA, and other signal wiring. *Most stuff is
in 19" boxes. *This person would be working directly for me, not the
company, although someone else in the company on the project would be
providing payment on a direct basis (no fancy contracts, mostly word
of mouth.) *I'd provide all the major parts, a lot of the smaller
stuff, diagrams (some pencil on paper, some wire lists, some worse,)
and high quality expectations. *I'm easy to work for, providing that I
don't need to hold anyone's hand, and am casual about everything but
good quality work.
* * *If anyone is interested or knows of someone or a small shop that
is capable of the work, I'm highly interested. *I've never been in
this sort of position before, so I'm at a loss about how to go about
dealing with this, so any guidance someone would like to offer would
be greatly appreciated. *You can reply to me directly if you'd like.

Can't do it, I'm in NH, but a prototype to copy in addition to the
documentation helps a LOT.
Also they may need the correct, expensive tools for crimp connectors,
you can get into unforseen trouble making odd-sized panel cutouts with
locating notches, and be sure you have the wire type and gauge
specified and a source for EVERY part including PEM studs etc.

Jim Wilkins

On Jan 4, 3:55*pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Jan 4, 6:29*pm, Carl M wrote:





* * *I can't believe it's come to this. *At work I'm getting really
busy, really quickly, and one R&D project alone I could devote the
next six months to full time, unfortunately at the loss of my other
projects. *It was suggested by the project manager of that particular
project that I see if I could find someone outside my company that
would be willing to help me out with a bunch of the work. *The bulk of
the work that I need help with is wiring control panels, done off
premise, which is not as value-added as my uppers would like it to be.
* * *I'm in the Seattle area and while I understand that all the
skilled folks are working full time, so I'm kinda thinking someone
retired, other folks looking for side work, or small shops. *Most of
the equipment relates to heater controls, thermocouple wiring, RS-232,
smart motors, relays, 4-20mA, and other signal wiring. *Most stuff is
in 19" boxes. *This person would be working directly for me, not the
company, although someone else in the company on the project would be
providing payment on a direct basis (no fancy contracts, mostly word
of mouth.) *I'd provide all the major parts, a lot of the smaller
stuff, diagrams (some pencil on paper, some wire lists, some worse,)
and high quality expectations. *I'm easy to work for, providing that I
don't need to hold anyone's hand, and am casual about everything but
good quality work.
* * *If anyone is interested or knows of someone or a small shop that
is capable of the work, I'm highly interested. *I've never been in
this sort of position before, so I'm at a loss about how to go about
dealing with this, so any guidance someone would like to offer would
be greatly appreciated. *You can reply to me directly if you'd like.

Can't do it, I'm in NH, but a prototype to copy in addition to the
documentation helps a LOT.
Also they may need the correct, expensive tools for crimp connectors,
you can get into unforseen trouble making odd-sized panel cutouts with
locating notches, and be sure you have the wire type and gauge
specified and a source for EVERY part including PEM studs etc.

Jim Wilkins- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Unfortunately (or not,) everything is a one-off, quite often a heavily
upgraded/modified version of previous designs, or sometimes something
entirely different. If I needed special tools for a project, I'd get
them, and would be available if needed to anyone who needs them. If
machine work is needed of a hand drill, such as front panels, I can
either have them done by an outside vendor (Front Panel Express is in
our neighborhood and used by my group a lot, although I haven't used
them myself) or will do it myself. I'm not above stitch drilling a
square hole and filing it until it fits if I have to. There's nothing
fancy, or even high tech, here and I make up a lot of this as I go
along, and would expect someone working for me to be able to do the
same, so decent electrical and electronic experience is a must. Since
folks on the project with less electrical experience sometimes go in
and make changes, I keep things simple and create room for easy
modifications and such. There's no inspectors other than myself, and
however anyone wants to make it work that fits the general
requirements of moi, I'm easy. The beauty of R&D is that there's not
too many people looking over your shoulder, assuming those folks know
what they're looking at anyway. I got brought onto this project
because I can take a vague set of expectation, translate that into a
functional design, then go build it. As long as it works and folks
are happy, nobody questions my methods, which has served us all very
well. They give me lots of rope/room to do things my way, and I like
it like that. It's hard not to discuss how cool this program is, but
suffice to say it will change all our lives for the better in a few
years.

There are contract houses for this sort of thing. Also contact
companies like "Manpower" or whatever its called these days. Your
company's HR department should know how to get to them. Where do THEY
go to hire temps?
See where your company's retirees go for breakfast meetings,etc.
Ask HR if there is a retiree newsletter or newsgroup.
Put an ad in the newspaper. Look around on the internet for local
electronic experimenter groups. You might try local high schools,
looking for outstanding students. I could have done that job by the
time I was 12. (Not making light of it, I was REALLY into circuits)
Also, contact votechs, looking for the same things.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------------


Carl M wrote:
I can't believe it's come to this. At work I'm getting really
busy, really quickly, and one R&D project alone I could devote the
next six months to full time, unfortunately at the loss of my other
projects. It was suggested by the project manager of that particular
project that I see if I could find someone outside my company that
would be willing to help me out with a bunch of the work. The bulk of
the work that I need help with is wiring control panels, done off
premise, which is not as value-added as my uppers would like it to be.
I'm in the Seattle area and while I understand that all the
skilled folks are working full time, so I'm kinda thinking someone
retired, other folks looking for side work, or small shops. Most of
the equipment relates to heater controls, thermocouple wiring, RS-232,
smart motors, relays, 4-20mA, and other signal wiring. Most stuff is
in 19" boxes. This person would be working directly for me, not the
company, although someone else in the company on the project would be
providing payment on a direct basis (no fancy contracts, mostly word
of mouth.) I'd provide all the major parts, a lot of the smaller
stuff, diagrams (some pencil on paper, some wire lists, some worse,)
and high quality expectations. I'm easy to work for, providing that I
don't need to hold anyone's hand, and am casual about everything but
good quality work.
If anyone is interested or knows of someone or a small shop that
is capable of the work, I'm highly interested. I've never been in
this sort of position before, so I'm at a loss about how to go about
dealing with this, so any guidance someone would like to offer would
be greatly appreciated. You can reply to me directly if you'd like.

On Jan 4, 7:22*pm, Carl M wrote:
...I got brought onto this project
because I can take a vague set of expectation, translate that into a
functional design, then go build it. *As long as it works and folks
are happy, nobody questions my methods, which has served us all very
well. *They give me lots of rope/room to do things my way, and I like
it like that. *...

I've been doing that since the 60's and it's led me through a long
string of companies with great ideas that crashed, often for non-
technical reasons. The job is terrific until the genius gets
frustrated and leaves, then I paint walls or inventory the lab
equipment and send it to a scrap dealer. Now I'm nearing (or at)
retirement and can only find temp jobs fixing problems no one else
will touch.

Jim Wilkins

On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 15:29:01 -0800 (PST), Carl M
wrote:

I can't believe it's come to this. At work I'm getting really
busy, really quickly, and one R&D project alone I could devote the
next six months to full time, unfortunately at the loss of my other
projects. It was suggested by the project manager of that particular
project that I see if I could find someone outside my company that
would be willing to help me out with a bunch of the work.

If you don't mind working at a distance, I'd like to take a look. I
consider myself a mechanical designer first, but for over 20 years
I've been doing the controls that go along with the industrial
automation that's my bread and butter. I do occasionally design and
build the controls for a system where someone else has done the
mechanicals.

I can send examples of the stuff I've done if you think this could
work for your project.

--
Ned Simmons

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:29:01 -0800, Carl M wrote:

I can't believe it's come to this. At work I'm getting really busy,
really quickly, and one R&D project alone I could devote the next six
months to full time, unfortunately at the loss of my other projects. It
was suggested by the project manager of that particular project that I
see if I could find someone outside my company that would be willing to
help me out with a bunch of the work. The bulk of the work that I need
help with is wiring control panels, done off premise, which is not as
value-added as my uppers would like it to be.
I'm in the Seattle area and while I understand that all the
skilled folks are working full time, so I'm kinda thinking someone
retired, other folks looking for side work, or small shops. Most of the
equipment relates to heater controls, thermocouple wiring, RS-232, smart
motors, relays, 4-20mA, and other signal wiring. Most stuff is in 19"
boxes. This person would be working directly for me, not the company,
although someone else in the company on the project would be providing
payment on a direct basis (no fancy contracts, mostly word of mouth.)
I'd provide all the major parts, a lot of the smaller stuff, diagrams
(some pencil on paper, some wire lists, some worse,) and high quality
expectations. I'm easy to work for, providing that I don't need to hold
anyone's hand, and am casual about everything but good quality work.
If anyone is interested or knows of someone or a small shop that
is capable of the work, I'm highly interested. I've never been in this
sort of position before, so I'm at a loss about how to go about dealing
with this, so any guidance someone would like to offer would be greatly
appreciated. You can reply to me directly if you'd like.

Try doing a web search on "Seattle", "electronics" and "consultant". The
Portland IEEE consultant's group (ORCNET) has folks with skill levels
ranging from technician/engineers like you want all the way to guys with
PhD's, presumably the Seattle one does too. I'm too dang lazy to do the
search for you right now, but if you don't turn anything up send me mail
& I'll dig a bit.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Carl M wrote:
I'd provide all the major parts, a lot of the smaller
stuff, diagrams (some pencil on paper, some wire lists, some worse,)
and high quality expectations. I'm easy to work for, providing that I
don't need to hold anyone's hand,

You asked.

You are lined up on final for a landing at disaster airport. You want to
give someone poor instructions (pencil on paper, worse), have them guess
as to what you really want (high quality), order your parts for you
(smaller stuff) and presumably give you the box you need on time as a
part time activity, in between more important stuff.

If you need a box that does something, write a spec with deliverables
and a date and have somebody as good as you are do the project managment
to get you what you need.

Trying to run a tech not in your firm is not a good use of your
resources. If you need more hands, hire a temp that you can look over
the shoulder of twice a day.



Kevin Gallimore

On Jan 5, 8:22*am, axolotl wrote:
Carl M wrote:

I'd provide all the major parts, a lot of the smaller

stuff, diagrams (some pencil on paper, some wire lists, some worse,)
and high quality expectations. *I'm easy to work for, providing that I
don't need to hold anyone's hand,

You asked.

You are lined up on final for a landing at disaster airport. You want to
give someone poor instructions (pencil on paper, worse), have them guess
as to what you really want (high quality), order your parts for you
(smaller stuff) and presumably give you the box you need on time as a
part time activity, in between more important stuff.

If you need a box that does something, write a spec with deliverables
and a date and have somebody as good as you are do the project managment
to get you what you need.

Trying to run a tech not in your firm is not a good use of your
resources. If you need more hands, hire a temp that you can look over
the shoulder of twice a day.

Kevin Gallimore

Our tiny group has a small number of folks in it, all technically
oriented. By the time I defined what I wanted in clear lettering with
dots and crosses, I could have done it myself. To have our company's
contract folks/planners/money wasters get involved, it would take
months and cost ten times as much. Therefore, as I myself have been
able to take vague expectation and convert that to tangible and
functional equipment, I was hoping to find someone who has similar
abilities and put them to work for a while. I understand that I have
high expectations, but if I can do it, surely I can't be the only
one. Hiring a temp is attractive, but that complicates the process
for us phenomenally (unions, legal, etc) but I haven't ruled it out,
either. Just not my preference.
My boss is hiring other techs for other projects, but this
particular one does not rate a full time electrical lab tech,
unfortunately, as in six months my workload will taper off
dramatically for a few more months, then peak somewhere. Given our
labor costs, hiring this sort of work out makes great economic sense.
I can only do so much, unfortunately. I've also learned that folks
with my particular skill set (my knowledge is wide and shallow, rather
than narrow and deep, and can turn ideas into something that actually
works) are pretty hard to find. Most folks know their little world
really well but lack much practical knowledge beyond that, which works
for most folks, and I have no issue with it.

On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 15:29:01 -0800 (PST), Carl M
wrote:

I can't believe it's come to this. At work I'm getting really
busy, really quickly, and one R&D project alone I could devote the
next six months to full time, unfortunately at the loss of my other
projects. It was suggested by the project manager of that particular
project that I see if I could find someone outside my company that
would be willing to help me out with a bunch of the work. The bulk of
the work that I need help with is wiring control panels, done off
premise, which is not as value-added as my uppers would like it to be.
I'm in the Seattle area and while I understand that all the
skilled folks are working full time, so I'm kinda thinking someone
retired, other folks looking for side work, or small shops. Most of
the equipment relates to heater controls, thermocouple wiring, RS-232,
smart motors, relays, 4-20mA, and other signal wiring. Most stuff is
in 19" boxes. This person would be working directly for me, not the
company, although someone else in the company on the project would be
providing payment on a direct basis (no fancy contracts, mostly word
of mouth.) I'd provide all the major parts, a lot of the smaller
stuff, diagrams (some pencil on paper, some wire lists, some worse,)
and high quality expectations. I'm easy to work for, providing that I
don't need to hold anyone's hand, and am casual about everything but
good quality work.
If anyone is interested or knows of someone or a small shop that
is capable of the work, I'm highly interested. I've never been in
this sort of position before, so I'm at a loss about how to go about
dealing with this, so any guidance someone would like to offer would
be greatly appreciated. You can reply to me directly if you'd like.

"Casual" is fine if it doesn't conflict with "high quality
expectations". Don't expect others to take a casual attitude about
being paid in full and on time. I'm not inferring anything at all
about you, but independents do look for disconnects between
"engineering" and "the office". Been there, done that, got the tee
shirt.

This infers that if the job you get meets the requirements you stated
and is of good workmanship, it is acceptable -- even if it isn't quite
what you expected. You do need to convey *all* of your expectations,
including some definition of what you regard as "high quality". This
could be a simple statement of required functionality realized in a
workmanlike fashion -- but, for example, if you expect it to be made
of aluminum rather than steel or rectangular rather than round, you'd
better say so. In a "casual" setup, if it does what you said it must
do and meets your stated expectations, then it is acceptable whether
or not it was done the way you would have done it or meets any
unstated expectations.

Some expectations are often implicit in an "in house" situation. Folks
learn "how we do things here" by doing things there.

You made no mention of compensation level or business terms. By the
job or by the hour? Who does the estimating? What are your
expectations there? How would you handle mid-course corrections e.g.
changes in scope or requirements after initial quote, estimate or
whatever. Are you open re location using UPS or FedEX for goods
transport and email for communications?

Independents quickly learn that they ultimately work for whomever
signs the checks. You might provide task assignments and/or work
direction, but there also must be a valid agreement in place with
someone having authority, ability and willingness to pay. Along with a
technical understanding, there must be a clear business arrangement.
Expect to be asked for business references regarding history of prompt
payment.