Hi folks: I am wondering which of the following methods would be the
most effective way to prevent some nuts from vibrating loose.
Lockwashers? Nyloc nuts? Loctite or similar thread locking goo,
or ???

My application is as follows: I have an aluminum angle "shelf" which
gets through-bolted through a 3" thick oak beam. The aluminum "shelf"
has an aluminum backing plate, and the oak is sandwiched between. The
fasteners are 4 each, 3/8"-16 stainless steel carriage bolts. The
"shelf" will support a diesel engine, and it's associated vibrations.

I look forward to your advice/suggestions.

Thanks and Happy New Year,
Andy
Lynn, MA

andy wrote:

My application is as follows: I have an aluminum angle "shelf" which
gets through-bolted through a 3" thick oak beam. The aluminum "shelf"
has an aluminum backing plate, and the oak is sandwiched between. The
fasteners are 4 each, 3/8"-16 stainless steel carriage bolts. The
"shelf" will support a diesel engine, and it's associated vibrations.


I'd go with nylock nuts. The wood may shrink and you will need to
re-tighten fasteners.

Wes

andy wrote:

Hi folks: I am wondering which of the following methods would be the
most effective way to prevent some nuts from vibrating loose.
Lockwashers? Nyloc nuts? Loctite or similar thread locking goo,
or ???

My application is as follows: I have an aluminum angle "shelf" which
gets through-bolted through a 3" thick oak beam. The aluminum "shelf"
has an aluminum backing plate, and the oak is sandwiched between. The
fasteners are 4 each, 3/8"-16 stainless steel carriage bolts. The
"shelf" will support a diesel engine, and it's associated vibrations.

I look forward to your advice/suggestions.

Thanks and Happy New Year,
Andy
Lynn, MA

Castle nut and cotter pin.

Given that the bolts are compressing wood, even a hardwood, I wouldn't trust
the wood to be constantly sized enough to keep conventional lockwashers working
correctly. On a warm dry day it might get enough thinner so the lockwashers
weren't bearing correctly any more. I don't know why, but I've never had much
luck with any of the Loctite products. I vote for drilling the nuts in place
and using safety wire. That's what some guys use on old Harleys, not known
for their absence of vibration ..

Grant

andy wrote:

Hi folks: I am wondering which of the following methods would be the
most effective way to prevent some nuts from vibrating loose.
Lockwashers? Nyloc nuts? Loctite or similar thread locking goo,
or ???

My application is as follows: I have an aluminum angle "shelf" which
gets through-bolted through a 3" thick oak beam. The aluminum "shelf"
has an aluminum backing plate, and the oak is sandwiched between. The
fasteners are 4 each, 3/8"-16 stainless steel carriage bolts. The
"shelf" will support a diesel engine, and it's associated vibrations.

I look forward to your advice/suggestions.

Thanks and Happy New Year,
Andy
Lynn, MA

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

I'd go with nylock nuts. The wood may shrink and you will need to
re-tighten fasteners.

Aluminum doesn't like split lockwashers. Nylon should hold up to diesel and
oil, but to be safe I would probably go with a steel flex-nut. If this is a
marine application I would use Monel, Bronze, or Stainless.
--
--
Stupendous Man
Defender of Liberty, Advocate of Justice

Grant Erwin wrote:

Given that the bolts are compressing wood, even a hardwood, I wouldn't trust
the wood to be constantly sized enough to keep conventional lockwashers working
correctly. On a warm dry day it might get enough thinner so the lockwashers
weren't bearing correctly any more. I don't know why, but I've never had much
luck with any of the Loctite products. I vote for drilling the nuts in place
and using safety wire. That's what some guys use on old Harleys, not known
for their absence of vibration ..

Grant

andy wrote:

Hi folks: I am wondering which of the following methods would be the
most effective way to prevent some nuts from vibrating loose.
Lockwashers? Nyloc nuts? Loctite or similar thread locking goo,
or ???

My application is as follows: I have an aluminum angle "shelf" which
gets through-bolted through a 3" thick oak beam. The aluminum "shelf"
has an aluminum backing plate, and the oak is sandwiched between. The
fasteners are 4 each, 3/8"-16 stainless steel carriage bolts. The
"shelf" will support a diesel engine, and it's associated vibrations.

I look forward to your advice/suggestions.

Thanks and Happy New Year,
Andy
Lynn, MA

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Ok, use a few of the cone type spring washers (as used on CNC mill
drawbars) sandwiched between a couple plain washers and secured with a
castle nut and cotter pin. Then you've got consistent tension on the
wood and a nut that isn't going to budge.

On Jan 1, 12:54*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Grant Erwin wrote:

Given that the bolts are compressing wood, even a hardwood, I wouldn't trust
the wood to be constantly sized enough to keep conventional lockwashers working
correctly. On a warm dry day it might get enough thinner so the lockwashers
weren't bearing correctly any more. I don't know why, but I've never had much
luck with any of the Loctite products. I vote for drilling the nuts in place
and using safety wire. That's what some guys use on old Harleys, not known
for their absence of vibration ..

Grant

andy wrote:

Hi folks: I am wondering which of the following methods would be the
most effective way to prevent some nuts from vibrating loose.
Lockwashers? *Nyloc nuts? Loctite or similar thread locking goo,
or ???

My application is as follows: *I have an aluminum angle "shelf" which
gets through-bolted through a 3" thick oak beam. *The aluminum "shelf"
has an aluminum backing plate, and the oak is sandwiched between. *The
fasteners are 4 each, 3/8"-16 stainless steel carriage bolts. *The
"shelf" will support a diesel engine, and it's associated vibrations.

I look forward to your advice/suggestions.

Thanks and Happy New Year,
Andy
Lynn, MA

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

Ok, use a few of the cone type spring washers (as used on CNC mill
drawbars) sandwiched between a couple plain washers and secured with a
castle nut and cotter pin. Then you've got consistent tension on the
wood and a nut that isn't going to budge.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
I will have to look into the cone spring washers. Drilling and safety
wire is also a good idea.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Andy
Lynn, MA

On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 11:50:48 -0800 (PST), andy
wrote:


I will have to look into the cone spring washers. Drilling and safety
wire is also a good idea.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Andy
Lynn, MA


try:-

http://www.mcmaster.com/

part number:- 9713K417

or similar

regards


Mark Rand
RTFM

Guess I'd go to a boatyard and ask them how they hold BIG engines in
place in wooedn boats.
This is a little tongue-in-cheek, but if you use stainless steel
bolts and nuts, they will gall and they certainly won't come apart!
But, you'd still have the wood-shrinkage problem that others have mentioned.

But, don't most engines get mounted with resilient engine mounts? Why
would you be solidly bolting an engine to a frame mechanism anyway? I'll
bet the mfr of any engine you can think of has some recommended mounting
mechanisms.

Pete Stanaitis
------------------

andy wrote:

Hi folks: I am wondering which of the following methods would be the
most effective way to prevent some nuts from vibrating loose.
Lockwashers? Nyloc nuts? Loctite or similar thread locking goo,
or ???

My application is as follows: I have an aluminum angle "shelf" which
gets through-bolted through a 3" thick oak beam. The aluminum "shelf"
has an aluminum backing plate, and the oak is sandwiched between. The
fasteners are 4 each, 3/8"-16 stainless steel carriage bolts. The
"shelf" will support a diesel engine, and it's associated vibrations.

I look forward to your advice/suggestions.

Thanks and Happy New Year,
Andy
Lynn, MA

andy wrote:

Hi folks: I am wondering which of the following methods would be the
most effective way to prevent some nuts from vibrating loose.
Lockwashers? Nyloc nuts? Loctite or similar thread locking goo,
or ???

My application is as follows: I have an aluminum angle "shelf" which
gets through-bolted through a 3" thick oak beam. The aluminum "shelf"
has an aluminum backing plate, and the oak is sandwiched between. The
fasteners are 4 each, 3/8"-16 stainless steel carriage bolts. The
"shelf" will support a diesel engine, and it's associated vibrations.

I look forward to your advice/suggestions.

Thanks and Happy New Year,
Andy
Lynn, MA

I wouldn't be concerned about fasteners at this point.
I think your engine mounting design is flawed.
A better system would be to have mounts that transfer the weight of
the engine to the top of the beam and the bolts only providing
location. Preferably, both mounts would be tied together to resist
spreading.
As it's a diesel, aluminum would not be my first choice of material
either.

Tom

On Jan 1, 6:15*pm, Tom wrote:
I wouldn't be concerned about fasteners at this point.
I think your engine mounting design is flawed.
A better system would be to have mounts that transfer the weight of
the engine to the top of the beam and the bolts only providing
location. Preferably, both mounts would be tied together to resist
spreading.
As it's a diesel, aluminum would not be my first choice of material
either.

Tom- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am not reinventing the wheel here. This is a common method of
engine mounting in my area. The reason the engine is not simply lag-
bolted down through the top of the beams is because the lags loosten
over time and the engine "jiggles" clapping out the holes. The
alternative is to through bolt "shelves" to the inboard faces of each
engine bed (beams in my earlier description). Vibration isolating
mounts bolt to the "shelves" and the engine sits on top of the mounts.
This arangement also allows for a little less precision in the
sizing/installation of the engine beds. You adjust the height by
moving the "shelves" rather than hacking material off the tops of the
beds. It also allows for a taller engine bed which is more stiff.

Here is a link to a professional shop in Maine. The 11th photo from
the top is what I am trying to describe.
http://www.clarkislandboatworks.com/...ance-large.php
I just grabbed this off the web, I have no affiliation with these
folks. - But, look around and see how the pros do it.

Thanks,
Andy

ps. Thanks Mark for the McMaster PN

This is a little tongue-in-cheek, but if you use stainless steel bolts
and nuts, they will gall and they certainly won't come apart!

Anti-seize compound will stop that

andy wrote:

On Jan 1, 6:15 pm, Tom wrote:

I wouldn't be concerned about fasteners at this point.
I think your engine mounting design is flawed.
A better system would be to have mounts that transfer the weight of
the engine to the top of the beam and the bolts only providing
location. Preferably, both mounts would be tied together to resist
spreading.
As it's a diesel, aluminum would not be my first choice of material
either.

Tom- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I am not reinventing the wheel here. This is a common method of
engine mounting in my area. The reason the engine is not simply lag-
bolted down through the top of the beams is because the lags loosten
over time and the engine "jiggles" clapping out the holes.

Pros wouldn't use lag bolts, carpenters use lag bolts.

The alternative is to through bolt "shelves" to the inboard faces of each
engine bed (beams in my earlier description). Vibration isolating
mounts bolt to the "shelves" and the engine sits on top of the mounts.

You think?

This arangement also allows for a little less precision in the
sizing/installation of the engine beds. You adjust the height by
moving the "shelves" rather than hacking material off the tops of the
beds. It also allows for a taller engine bed which is more stiff.

LOL. I'd like to see you making such adjustments.
"Hacking"? Is this a NE pro term? Like more stiff? Us "pros" prefer
shimming and stiffer.

Here is a link to a professional shop in Maine. The 11th photo from
the top is what I am trying to describe.
http://www.clarkislandboatworks.com/...ance-large.php
I just grabbed this off the web, I have no affiliation with these
folks. - But, look around and see how the pros do it.

Thanks,
Andy

That word "pro" again. Actually that particular shop looked pretty ho hum
as regards quality of design.

Tom

On 2008-01-01, Pete C. wrote:
andy wrote:

Hi folks: I am wondering which of the following methods would be the
most effective way to prevent some nuts from vibrating loose.
Lockwashers? Nyloc nuts? Loctite or similar thread locking goo,
or ???

[ ... ]

Castle nut and cotter pin.

Or drilled nuts and safety wire (assuming that you have the
pliers to twist the wire.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Hi folks: I am wondering which of the following methods would be the
most effective way to prevent some nuts from vibrating loose.
Lockwashers? Nyloc nuts? Loctite or similar thread locking goo,
or ???

[ ... ]

Castle nut and cotter pin.

Or drilled nuts and safety wire (assuming that you have the
pliers to twist the wire.

Enjoy,
DoN.

several questions - will you ever need to remove the nuts? how much
vibration? what temperature?

Nyloc nuts don't work well at high temperature (or very low either),
locktite can make removal a problem (and doesn't work at high temperature),
safety wire or cotter pin works but I had one case where the cotter pin
sheard off and the castellated nut unsecrewed (casuing the left rear wheel
to separate from my car, which made for a rather interesting driving
experience, to say the least). A small screw or a hardened pin through the
nut and bolt is effective, a second nut tightened against the first with a
lock washer inbetween is pretty good, and peening the threads over or
welding/brazing is quite effective also



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Keywords:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-01-01, Pete C. wrote:
andy wrote:

Hi folks: I am wondering which of the following methods would be the
most effective way to prevent some nuts from vibrating loose.
Lockwashers? Nyloc nuts? Loctite or similar thread locking goo,
or ???

[ ... ]

Castle nut and cotter pin.

Or drilled nuts and safety wire (assuming that you have the
pliers to twist the wire.

Years ago they had an exhibit at the Boston Museum of Science on the
Russian space program, including lots of hardware. It was very
interesting to see the different approaches to construction compared to
the satellite hardware I was building at the time. The two things I
remember most we

1) They used slotted screws instead of Phillips a lot, and you could see
scratches where they had slipped with a screwdriver.

2) Instead of using safety wire & drilled nuts, they used a soft,
slightly oversized washer under a regular hex nut. Once the nut was
tightened, they pried up the washer next to one of the flats and mashed
it (pliers? hammer?) against the flat of the nut. The washer couldn't
turn unless the nut came loose, and the nut couldn't come loose unless
the washer did. Weird (by our thinking), but elegant in its own way.

Doug White

Doug White wrote:

Keywords:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-01-01, Pete C. wrote:
andy wrote:

Hi folks: I am wondering which of the following methods would be the
most effective way to prevent some nuts from vibrating loose.
Lockwashers? Nyloc nuts? Loctite or similar thread locking goo,
or ???

[ ... ]

Castle nut and cotter pin.

Or drilled nuts and safety wire (assuming that you have the
pliers to twist the wire.

Years ago they had an exhibit at the Boston Museum of Science on the
Russian space program, including lots of hardware. It was very
interesting to see the different approaches to construction compared to
the satellite hardware I was building at the time. The two things I
remember most we

1) They used slotted screws instead of Phillips a lot, and you could see
scratches where they had slipped with a screwdriver.

2) Instead of using safety wire & drilled nuts, they used a soft,
slightly oversized washer under a regular hex nut. Once the nut was
tightened, they pried up the washer next to one of the flats and mashed
it (pliers? hammer?) against the flat of the nut. The washer couldn't
turn unless the nut came loose, and the nut couldn't come loose unless
the washer did. Weird (by our thinking), but elegant in its own way.

Doug White

That, and the english labels on emergency stuff, knowing if the brown
stuff hit the fan, they could rely on us for help.