In making a trombone, what is the soft flexible metal poured into the
brass tubing when bending?

wrote:
In making a trombone, what is the soft flexible metal poured into the
brass tubing when bending?


Probably Cerro-bend alloy. Melts at about 75C (167F).

wrote in message
ups.com...
In making a trombone, what is the soft flexible metal poured into the
brass tubing when bending?


They use soapy water. It gets frozen. The soap keeps it in a slightly mushy
condition and prevents splitting of the tube from expansion of the frozen
water. Cleanup is real easy.

Paul K. Dickman

They use soapy water. It gets frozen. The soap keeps it in a slightly
mushy condition and prevents splitting of the tube from expansion of the
frozen water. Cleanup is real easy.

Bingo. Exactly right according to the instrument maker located just 50'
from my shop...
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

On Nov 13, 11:52 am, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:
They use soapy water. It gets frozen. The soap keeps it in a slightly
mushy condition and prevents splitting of the tube from expansion of the
frozen water. Cleanup is real easy.

Bingo. Exactly right according to the instrument maker located just 50'
from my shop...
--

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R


More importantly, that's how they did it on 'how its made'...


Dave

wrote:
In making a trombone, what is the soft flexible metal poured into the
brass tubing when bending?

In the video I saw they used pitch, in the next thread over they used
soapy water.

I suspect that anything that is normally used to bend tubing will work,
and will have advantages and disadvantages. Can't one pack a tube with
sand for this operation as well, or am I hallucinating?

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim Wescott wrote:
wrote:
In making a trombone, what is the soft flexible metal poured into the
brass tubing when bending?

In the video I saw they used pitch, in the next thread over they used
soapy water.

I suspect that anything that is normally used to bend tubing will work,
and will have advantages and disadvantages. Can't one pack a tube with
sand for this operation as well, or am I hallucinating?

I suspect sand would cause internal abrasion marks that would be
undesirable.

On Nov 13, 1:38 pm, Rex wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
wrote:
In making a trombone, what is the soft flexible metal poured into the
brass tubing when bending?

In the video I saw they used pitch, in the next thread over they used
soapy water.

I suspect that anything that is normally used to bend tubing will work,
and will have advantages and disadvantages. Can't one pack a tube with
sand for this operation as well, or am I hallucinating?

I suspect sand would cause internal abrasion marks that would be
undesirable.


Sand is indeed used to bend large pipes. After packing with sand the
pipe wall is heated with torches, and then bent into shape.

Wolfgang

wrote:
More importantly, that's how they did it on 'how its made'...
--Saw that. Knew it was water but the 'soapy' part is new; glad to
know that. Gotta give it a try now! :-)



--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Whatever happened
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : to Andy Philbrick?
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
wrote:
In making a trombone, what is the soft flexible metal poured into the
brass tubing when bending?

In the video I saw they used pitch, in the next thread over they used
soapy water.

I suspect that anything that is normally used to bend tubing will work,
and will have advantages and disadvantages. Can't one pack a tube with
sand for this operation as well, or am I hallucinating?

--

Tim Wescott

Pitch would work too, but it is hard to cleanup and getting a reliable fill
might be tough.
However, for something like a french horn, where the bend is in the bell
taper, pitch would be required.
The slushy water would just squirt out the wide end. Pitch is sticky and
glues itself to the walls forming a plug that keeps the backpressure in.

Paul K. Dickman

wrote:
On Nov 13, 1:38 pm, Rex wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
wrote:
In making a trombone, what is the soft flexible metal poured into the
brass tubing when bending?
In the video I saw they used pitch, in the next thread over they used
soapy water.
I suspect that anything that is normally used to bend tubing will work,
and will have advantages and disadvantages. Can't one pack a tube with
sand for this operation as well, or am I hallucinating?
I suspect sand would cause internal abrasion marks that would be
undesirable.


Sand is indeed used to bend large pipes. After packing with sand the
pipe wall is heated with torches, and then bent into shape.

Oh, I'm well familiar with that use for things like header pipes and
roll cages.
I just wouldn't want to use that method on the internals of a musical
instrument. the clarity of tone might be affected by the internal finish.

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:25:42 -0800, wrote:
In making a trombone, what is the soft flexible metal poured into the
brass tubing when bending?

Saw this on "How it's made" the other day. They use this compound
called "Dihydrogen Monoxide" heated beyond its melting point, and then
they allow it to cool to below the melting point so it becomes a
solid that is soft enough to allow bending but strong enough to prevent
kinking. Be careful of the stuff (if it's not banned where you are),
see http://www.dhmo.org/ for details on its hazards. Inhalation hazards
and all that...

Dave

Joe AutoDrill wrote:

They use soapy water. It gets frozen. The soap keeps it in a slightly
mushy condition and prevents splitting of the tube from expansion of the
frozen water. Cleanup is real easy.


Bingo. Exactly right according to the instrument maker located just 50'
from my shop...

Cannot recall if it was an episode of "How It Is Made" or Mr Rodgers,
that I stumbled across one day, but they were in an instrument shop, and
followed through the whole process, bending, spinning and soldering
together the parts of a trombone or trumpet. I think it may have been a
trumpet, as I recall valves being there.

The freezer scene featured large, showing a person lifting out a batch
of frozen parts and bending them.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Dave Hinz writes:

Be careful of the stuff (if it's not banned where you are), ...

I hear there's a chronic shortage of it in several parts of the country.
Very impractical of you to suggest using something that exotic and hard-to-
find. Sand, on the other hand, is in everyone's shoes.

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:24:54 -0600, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Dave Hinz writes:

(DHMO)
Be careful of the stuff (if it's not banned where you are), ...

I hear there's a chronic shortage of it in several parts of the country.
Very impractical of you to suggest using something that exotic and hard-to-
find. Sand, on the other hand, is in everyone's shoes.

We're in clay country here, you insensitive *******.

Dave Hinz writes:

We're in clay country here, ...

So you can have no proper agriculture, the basis of all virture and
economic prosperity, and in turn the leisure to develop the liberal arts,
of which music is prime, so you clearly have NO NEED OF TROMBONES.

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:32:45 -0600, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Dave Hinz writes:

We're in clay country here, ...

So you can have no proper agriculture, the basis of all virture and
economic prosperity, and in turn the leisure to develop the liberal arts,
of which music is prime, so you clearly have NO NEED OF TROMBONES.

Ah, that's where you're wrong. Clay is just fine for my tree farm.
(oak/maple/ash/pine/spruce/fir/walnut). Makes 'em grow nice and
slllllow, which makes for nice lumber given proper trimming (which I
do). So, it's, er, a _feature_, not a bug, you see. So let's see the
lumber then, provides for WOODwinds, rather than brASS.

Point remains that DHMO is used in torture, found in tumors, and will
kill you if you get a lungful of the stuff. But nice try at diversion
there. Lets keep our eye on what matters, mmm-kay?

On Nov 13, 11:35 pm, Dave Hinz wrote:

So you can have no proper agriculture, the basis of all virture and
economic prosperity, and in turn the leisure to develop the liberal arts,
of which music is prime, so you clearly have NO NEED OF TROMBONES.

Ah, that's where you're wrong. Clay is just fine for my tree farm.
(oak/maple/ash/pine/spruce/fir/walnut). Makes 'em grow nice and
slllllow, which makes for nice lumber given proper trimming (which I
do). So, it's, er, a _feature_, not a bug, you see. So let's see the
lumber then, provides for WOODwinds, rather than brASS.

Point remains that DHMO is used in torture, found in tumors, and will
kill you if you get a lungful of the stuff. But nice try at diversion
there. Lets keep our eye on what matters, mmm-kay?

Not to mention ruining the sound of the trombone, so it's provided
with a purge portal.

"Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them." - Richard
Wagner

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:32:45 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Richard J Kinch quickly quoth:

Dave Hinz writes:

We're in clay country here, ...

So you can have no proper agriculture, the basis of all virture and
economic prosperity, and in turn the leisure to develop the liberal arts,
of which music is prime, so you clearly have NO NEED OF TROMBONES.

I feel that clay is of extreme importance in the use of trombones in
that it works so well as a mute!

--
Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
-- Charles Lindbergh

Actually, what I really intend to bend is steel tubing for a tubular
chassis.

A mandrel bender would be nice if I could afford it but it's just too
expensive for me.

I do have here a simple hydraulic bender (ram style bending... see
http://www.oceanmachinery.com/how-to...e-and-tube.htm) which I
think wouldn't make good, smooth bends and so I'm thinking of putting
in something to support the inside of the tube while bending.

I was thinking of some metal with a low melting point. but you guys
mentioned sand?
Can sand help me get bends similar to those of a mandrel bender?





On Nov 14, 7:59 pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:32:45 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Richard J Kinch quickly quoth:

Dave Hinz writes:

We're in clay country here, ...

So you can have no proper agriculture, the basis of all virture and
economic prosperity, and in turn the leisure to develop the liberal arts,
of which music is prime, so you clearly have NO NEED OF TROMBONES.

I feel that clay is of extreme importance in the use of trombones in
that it works so well as a mute!

--
Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
-- Charles Lindbergh

wrote in message
oups.com...
Actually, what I really intend to bend is steel tubing for a tubular
chassis.

A mandrel bender would be nice if I could afford it but it's just too
expensive for me.

I do have here a simple hydraulic bender (ram style bending... see
http://www.oceanmachinery.com/how-to...e-and-tube.htm) which I
think wouldn't make good, smooth bends and so I'm thinking of putting
in something to support the inside of the tube while bending.

I was thinking of some metal with a low melting point. but you guys
mentioned sand?
Can sand help me get bends similar to those of a mandrel bender?

"Cerrobend" is what you need. It's a low melting point, ~190F, alloy.
McMaster-Carr did stock it.



On Nov 14, 7:59 pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:32:45 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Richard J Kinch quickly quoth:

Dave Hinz writes:

We're in clay country here, ...

So you can have no proper agriculture, the basis of all virture and
economic prosperity, and in turn the leisure to develop the liberal
arts,
of which music is prime, so you clearly have NO NEED OF TROMBONES.

I feel that clay is of extreme importance in the use of trombones in
that it works so well as a mute!

--
Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
-- Charles Lindbergh

wrote:
Actually, what I really intend to bend is steel tubing for a tubular
chassis.

A mandrel bender would be nice if I could afford it but it's just too
expensive for me.

I do have here a simple hydraulic bender (ram style bending... see
http://www.oceanmachinery.com/how-to...e-and-tube.htm) which I
think wouldn't make good, smooth bends and so I'm thinking of putting
in something to support the inside of the tube while bending.

I was thinking of some metal with a low melting point. but you guys
mentioned sand?
Can sand help me get bends similar to those of a mandrel bender?




Ram style benders do a good job of crushing the bends. What you need is
a draw style bender (take a look at the small tubing benders for draw
style) And you can build one easy enough if you have some descent
welding ability.

http://www.bii1.com/benders_a1.htm is a manual one.
http://www.bii1.com/benders_b1.htm are hydraulics


--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York
NRA Member
Pacifism - The theory that if they'd fed
Jeffrey Dahmer enough human flesh,
he'd have become a vegan.

Steve W. wrote:
....
http://www.bii1.com/benders_a1.htm is a manual one.
http://www.bii1.com/benders_b1.htm are hydraulics

Damn, I hate web sites that don't have prices for their products! I
suspect it's "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" again.

Bob

Bob Engelhardt wrote:
Steve W. wrote:
...

http://www.bii1.com/benders_a1.htm is a manual one.
http://www.bii1.com/benders_b1.htm are hydraulics


Damn, I hate web sites that don't have prices for their products! I
suspect it's "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" again.

Bob

Yup.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-BAILEIGH-RDB...QQcmdZViewItem

--Winston

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:20:57 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

wrote:
Actually, what I really intend to bend is steel tubing for a tubular
chassis.

A mandrel bender would be nice if I could afford it but it's just too
expensive for me.

I do have here a simple hydraulic bender (ram style bending... see
http://www.oceanmachinery.com/how-to...e-and-tube.htm) which I
think wouldn't make good, smooth bends and so I'm thinking of putting
in something to support the inside of the tube while bending.

I was thinking of some metal with a low melting point. but you guys
mentioned sand?
Can sand help me get bends similar to those of a mandrel bender?




Ram style benders do a good job of crushing the bends. What you need is
a draw style bender (take a look at the small tubing benders for draw
style) And you can build one easy enough if you have some descent
welding ability.

http://www.bii1.com/benders_a1.htm is a manual one.
http://www.bii1.com/benders_b1.htm are hydraulics
IIRCC, it was a Greenlee hydraulic bender that impressed me the most
when I saw the electrical crew installing five inch "electrical
metallic tubing." When they brought that unit on the job, the crew
spent a couple days and a half dozen lengths of tubing, learning to
use it.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

I think it is a symptom of all of the oxygen machines in homes.
Sucks the moisture and oxygen out of the air and makes O2 to compress.

Got to be that and the silica gel used in the gardens. It sucks in all
the moisture and it disappears.

Martin - :-)
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Richard J Kinch wrote:
Dave Hinz writes:

Be careful of the stuff (if it's not banned where you are), ...

I hear there's a chronic shortage of it in several parts of the country.
Very impractical of you to suggest using something that exotic and hard-to-
find. Sand, on the other hand, is in everyone's shoes.

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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Winston wrote:
Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Steve W. wrote:
...

http://www.bii1.com/benders_a1.htm is a manual one.
http://www.bii1.com/benders_b1.htm are hydraulics



Damn, I hate web sites that don't have prices for their products! I
suspect it's "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" again.

Bob


Yup.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-BAILEIGH-RDB...QQcmdZViewItem


--Winston

Order the catalog and flyers, and use the pictures to make one.

If there was a reason to, the Chinese would have already knocked them off.

Cheers
Trevor Jones