Got my dad's military papers back ....

flight maintenenance gunner 748

30th Bomb Gp 270th Bomb Sq

Decorations and citations: Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon Good Conduct Ribbon World
War II Victory Medal Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with One Silver Service
Star ( A Silver Service Star is awarded in lieu of 5 Bronze Service Stars
Sharpshooter Badge with Carbine and Pistol Bars WWII Honorable Service Lapel
Button

Last rank, Sergeant, United States Air Corps
Service outside Continental US: 25 Apr 45 to 10 Nov 45

Help me understand my father, who I never understood in his life.

To me, it looks like something impressive.

He never spoke of it.

Thanks.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
Got my dad's military papers back ....

flight maintenenance gunner 748

30th Bomb Gp 270th Bomb Sq

Decorations and citations: Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon Good Conduct Ribbon World
War II Victory Medal Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with One Silver Service
Star ( A Silver Service Star is awarded in lieu of 5 Bronze Service Stars
Sharpshooter Badge with Carbine and Pistol Bars WWII Honorable Service Lapel
Button

Last rank, Sergeant, United States Air Corps
Service outside Continental US: 25 Apr 45 to 10 Nov 45

Help me understand my father, who I never understood in his life.

To me, it looks like something impressive.

He never spoke of it.

Thanks.

Steve



It IS impressive, Steve.
Looks like your dad was a warrior.
You have something to be proud of.

Research the Philippine campaigns.
Might want to read about MacArthur too.
Althouth 1945 was pretty late in the game.

None of that will tell you what your dad didn't talk about.
But you might get a good idea of what the situation was.

Respects,

Richard Lamb

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:31:40 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:

SteveB wrote:
Got my dad's military papers back ....

flight maintenenance gunner 748

30th Bomb Gp 270th Bomb Sq

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/sha...-1234P-036.jpg

http://30thbg.1hwy.com/
http://30thbg.1hwy.com/27thBS.html

http://www.armyairforces.com/forum/forumid_106/tt.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=_6w...M pNnUh5K44vw

http://www.aafha.org/order.asp?oh=9

Here are the Oral Histories you selected:
S/Sgt. Julian Rosenfeld S/Sgt. Julian Rosenfeld:
Left Waist Gunner with 30th Bomb Group
27th Squadron and 11th Bomb Group
98th Squadron B-24. 7th Air Force.
Saipan, Guam, Okinawa.
31 pages of text. 20 photographs. Map.
6 pages of Army records and papers.


Decorations and citations: Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon Good Conduct Ribbon World
War II Victory Medal Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with One Silver Service
Star ( A Silver Service Star is awarded in lieu of 5 Bronze Service Stars
Sharpshooter Badge with Carbine and Pistol Bars WWII Honorable Service Lapel
Button

Last rank, Sergeant, United States Air Corps
Service outside Continental US: 25 Apr 45 to 10 Nov 45

Help me understand my father, who I never understood in his life.

To me, it looks like something impressive.

He never spoke of it.

Thanks.

Steve



It IS impressive, Steve.
Looks like your dad was a warrior.
You have something to be proud of.

Research the Philippine campaigns.
Might want to read about MacArthur too.
Althouth 1945 was pretty late in the game.

None of that will tell you what your dad didn't talk about.
But you might get a good idea of what the situation was.

Respects,

Richard Lamb


Impressive indeed. Seems to have been in on the last of the hot
fights..at least 5 campaigns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_War



"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

SteveB wrote:
Got my dad's military papers back ....

flight maintenenance gunner 748

30th Bomb Gp 270th Bomb Sq

Decorations and citations: Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea
Bismarck Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon Good
Conduct Ribbon World War II Victory Medal Asiatic-Pacific Campaign
Medal with One Silver Service Star ( A Silver Service Star is awarded
in lieu of 5 Bronze Service Stars Sharpshooter Badge with Carbine and
Pistol Bars WWII Honorable Service Lapel Button

Last rank, Sergeant, United States Air Corps
Service outside Continental US: 25 Apr 45 to 10 Nov 45

Help me understand my father, who I never understood in his life.

To me, it looks like something impressive.

He never spoke of it.

Thanks.

Steve

I finally understood my dad after he and I had a heart-to-heart talk .
After I came home from 'Nam . He saw service in the South Pacific during
WWII .
We both did things we weren't proud of , but they were things that needed
doing .
--

Snag aka OSG #1
'90 Ultra , "Strider"
The road goes on forever ...
none to one to reply

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:11:09 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

Got my dad's military papers back ....

flight maintenenance gunner 748

30th Bomb Gp 270th Bomb Sq

Decorations and citations: Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon Good Conduct Ribbon Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon World
War II Victory Medal Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with One Silver Service
Star ( A Silver Service Star is awarded in lieu of 5 Bronze Service Stars
Sharpshooter Badge with Carbine and Pistol Bars WWII Honorable Service Lapel
Button

Last rank, Sergeant, United States Air Corps
Service outside Continental US: 25 Apr 45 to 10 Nov 45

Help me understand my father, who I never understood in his life.

To me, it looks like something impressive.

He never spoke of it.

Thanks.

Steve


Based on 20 years of USAF service:


I can find no reference to a 270th Bomb Squadron of the 30th Bomb
group, however there was a 27th Bomb squadron. From what I can
discover the Group went to the Aleutians in 1941 and were assigned to
the Pacific Theater for the whole war. In 1945 they were flying out of
Guam or somewhere or perhaps Saipan.

As far as I can tell they were flying B-24's at the end of the war.

Reading off his job description he was an aircraft gunner.

Reading his service ribbons:

Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon

This is a service medal and indicates that he was assigned to a unit
which in turn was assigned to the region at the time (probably) that
the Philippines were liberated.

Good Conduct Ribbon

This indicates that he had no disciplinary actions taken against him
for the period the medal was awarded for.

World War II Victory Medal

another service medal. Indicates that he was in the military at the
time WW-II was ended

Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with One Silver Service
Star

Again a service medal indicating that he served in the Asiatic region
for some time. I am not sure what length of service was required for a
bronze star but he must have been there for quite a while.

Sharpshooter Badge with Carbine and Pistol Bars

Means he qualified as "Sharpshooter" with both a M-1 Carbine and a
1911 pistol. Rather unusual for Army Air Force personnel to have this
medal unless he was transferred from the Army.

WWII Honorable Service Lapel Button

What it says.

His rank of Sargent in the U.S. Air force would indicate that he was
serving in 1947 or later when the US Army Air Force became the U.S.
Air Force.

The rank of "Sargent" is not complete, I believe, as he should have
been a Staff, Technical or Master Sargent in 1947. A 3 striper was
called an airman 1st Class in those days.

From the information you provide I would guess that he was a member of
a bomber aircrew and flew in combat somewhere in then Asiatic region.
As a gunner on a bomber he would not normally be in line for a major
decoration as these were normally given to aircraft commanders.

His Good conduct medal indicates that he did not receive any formal
disciplinary action.

In short he sounds like a guy that did his job, didn't screw up and
lived through it. A good airman as the saying goes.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:11:09 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

Got my dad's military papers back ....

flight maintenenance gunner 748

30th Bomb Gp 270th Bomb Sq

Decorations and citations: Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon Good Conduct Ribbon
Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon World
War II Victory Medal Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with One Silver
Service
Star ( A Silver Service Star is awarded in lieu of 5 Bronze Service Stars
Sharpshooter Badge with Carbine and Pistol Bars WWII Honorable Service
Lapel
Button

Last rank, Sergeant, United States Air Corps
Service outside Continental US: 25 Apr 45 to 10 Nov 45

Help me understand my father, who I never understood in his life.

To me, it looks like something impressive.

He never spoke of it.

Thanks.

Steve


Based on 20 years of USAF service:


I can find no reference to a 270th Bomb Squadron of the 30th Bomb
group, however there was a 27th Bomb squadron. From what I can
discover the Group went to the Aleutians in 1941 and were assigned to
the Pacific Theater for the whole war. In 1945 they were flying out of
Guam or somewhere or perhaps Saipan.

As far as I can tell they were flying B-24's at the end of the war.

Reading off his job description he was an aircraft gunner.

Reading his service ribbons:

Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon

This is a service medal and indicates that he was assigned to a unit
which in turn was assigned to the region at the time (probably) that
the Philippines were liberated.

Good Conduct Ribbon

This indicates that he had no disciplinary actions taken against him
for the period the medal was awarded for.

World War II Victory Medal

another service medal. Indicates that he was in the military at the
time WW-II was ended

Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with One Silver Service
Star

Again a service medal indicating that he served in the Asiatic region
for some time. I am not sure what length of service was required for a
bronze star but he must have been there for quite a while.

Sharpshooter Badge with Carbine and Pistol Bars

Means he qualified as "Sharpshooter" with both a M-1 Carbine and a
1911 pistol. Rather unusual for Army Air Force personnel to have this
medal unless he was transferred from the Army.

WWII Honorable Service Lapel Button

What it says.

His rank of Sargent in the U.S. Air force would indicate that he was
serving in 1947 or later when the US Army Air Force became the U.S.
Air Force.

The rank of "Sargent" is not complete, I believe, as he should have
been a Staff, Technical or Master Sargent in 1947. A 3 striper was
called an airman 1st Class in those days.

From the information you provide I would guess that he was a member of
a bomber aircrew and flew in combat somewhere in then Asiatic region.
As a gunner on a bomber he would not normally be in line for a major
decoration as these were normally given to aircraft commanders.

His Good conduct medal indicates that he did not receive any formal
disciplinary action.

In short he sounds like a guy that did his job, didn't screw up and
lived through it. A good airman as the saying goes.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

Thanks for the breakdown

I just quoted what I read from the papers I got. He was a "Sergeant" in the
"Army of The United States", and was discharged on Nov. 22, 1945 according
to the Certification of Military Service, NA FORM 13038 (REV. 04-01)

Is there any way I can find out what he did to get the bronze stars? I
understand a lot of records were lost in a fire, and this one has burn marks
on it.

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
Got my dad's military papers back ....

flight maintenenance gunner 748

30th Bomb Gp 270th Bomb Sq

Decorations and citations: Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon Good Conduct Ribbon World
War II Victory Medal Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with One Silver
Service
Star ( A Silver Service Star is awarded in lieu of 5 Bronze Service Stars
Sharpshooter Badge with Carbine and Pistol Bars WWII Honorable Service
Lapel
Button

Last rank, Sergeant, United States Air Corps
Service outside Continental US: 25 Apr 45 to 10 Nov 45

Help me understand my father, who I never understood in his life.

To me, it looks like something impressive.

He never spoke of it.

Thanks.

Steve



It is very hard to tell what a person's service was actually like, just
looking at a list of service medals. One gets them for just being
there. Someone just passing through gets the same medal as a
soldier going through hell on the ground (witness the pile of awards
a typical high-ranking officer usually sports...).

But, I'll tell you a personal story. When I was in grade school, the
father of my best friend was regarded as a bit "strange." He was a
WWII Navy veteran who had been on the USS LEXINGTON when
she was sunk. Many years later, I was in the Navy on board the
USS ENTERPRISE when she burned off the coast of Hawaii in
1969. A couple years later, I was talking about the fire to a group
of neighbors, my friend's father among them. He, perhaps hoping
against hope that, maybe, I could understand, blurted out something
about the sinking of the LEXINGTON. Even after all those years,
the look of horror on his face was terrible to behold. For a brief
moment, he revealed a gaping wound that had never healed. A few
minutes later, I saw him headed home.

Some years later, after his death, I was talking with my old friend,
his son, and told him about the exchange. My friend had never been
particularly close to his father (no one was) and had never heard.
He simply thought his father was not a very nice person. But, after
we'd talked, he began to understand a little better who this stranger,
his father, really was.

Veterans tend to talk about such things only to other veterans and
then only to those who had similar experiences because they are the
only ones who seem able to understand. This is largely the reason
for such organizations as the American Legion and the V.F.W.

So, when a veteran doesn't have much to say about his service, it is
for one of two reasons: either there is not much to tell or there is too
much to tell.

And it can be tough to know the difference.

Jerry
Viet-Nam Veteran
United States Navy

"Jerry Foster" fired this volley in
. net:
It is very hard to tell what a person's service was actually like,
just looking at a list of service medals. One gets them for just
being there. Someone just passing through gets the same medal as a
soldier going through hell on the ground (witness the pile of awards
a typical high-ranking officer usually sports...).

True enough, Jerry, but it works both ways.

I was in Nam, on "detached" duty under a Marine chicken colonel. We had
turned over our boats, and were installing defensive perimeters around
small U Minh Forest op-bases to use up our tour.

During Tet night, 1971, I picked up a grenade fragment in the face.
Nothing bad, although it missed my right eye by only about 1-1/4". I got
medi-vac'd to Bin Thuy air base for surgery. After about an hour on the
table, they surmised they weren't going to find the piece, and closed it
up -- other more serious injuries were waiting.

When I got back to my base, our colonel said in about these words, "No
metal, no medal." So I don't wear Uncle George's portrait, even though a
cosmetic surgeon took out the piece in 1992.

I'm not sour about it. A lot of guys lost limbs or worse. A lot of guys
got Bronze Stars for just being where they were at the time.

The ribbons and pins aren't as significant as they seem, one way OR the
other.


Jerry
Viet-Nam Veteran
United States Navy

Same... River Rat.

LLoyd

snip
So, when a veteran doesn't have much to say about his service, it is
for one of two reasons: either there is not much to tell or there is too
much to tell.

And it can be tough to know the difference.

snip


Well said.

George

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:14:34 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:


So, when a veteran doesn't have much to say about his service, it is
for one of two reasons: either there is not much to tell or there is too
much to tell.

And it can be tough to know the difference.

Jerry
Viet-Nam Veteran


Indeed. Well said

Gunner
71-73, RVN

"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:11:09 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

Got my dad's military papers back ....

flight maintenenance gunner 748

30th Bomb Gp 270th Bomb Sq

Decorations and citations: Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea
Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon Good Conduct Ribbon
Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon World
War II Victory Medal Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with One Silver
Service
Star ( A Silver Service Star is awarded in lieu of 5 Bronze Service
Stars
Sharpshooter Badge with Carbine and Pistol Bars WWII Honorable Service
Lapel
Button

Last rank, Sergeant, United States Air Corps
Service outside Continental US: 25 Apr 45 to 10 Nov 45

Help me understand my father, who I never understood in his life.

To me, it looks like something impressive.

He never spoke of it.

Thanks.

Steve


Based on 20 years of USAF service:


I can find no reference to a 270th Bomb Squadron of the 30th Bomb
group, however there was a 27th Bomb squadron. From what I can
discover the Group went to the Aleutians in 1941 and were assigned to
the Pacific Theater for the whole war. In 1945 they were flying out of
Guam or somewhere or perhaps Saipan.

As far as I can tell they were flying B-24's at the end of the war.

Reading off his job description he was an aircraft gunner.

Reading his service ribbons:

Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon

This is a service medal and indicates that he was assigned to a unit
which in turn was assigned to the region at the time (probably) that
the Philippines were liberated.

Good Conduct Ribbon

This indicates that he had no disciplinary actions taken against him
for the period the medal was awarded for.

World War II Victory Medal

another service medal. Indicates that he was in the military at the
time WW-II was ended

Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with One Silver Service
Star

Again a service medal indicating that he served in the Asiatic region
for some time. I am not sure what length of service was required for a
bronze star but he must have been there for quite a while.

Sharpshooter Badge with Carbine and Pistol Bars

Means he qualified as "Sharpshooter" with both a M-1 Carbine and a
1911 pistol. Rather unusual for Army Air Force personnel to have this
medal unless he was transferred from the Army.

WWII Honorable Service Lapel Button

What it says.

His rank of Sargent in the U.S. Air force would indicate that he was
serving in 1947 or later when the US Army Air Force became the U.S.
Air Force.

The rank of "Sargent" is not complete, I believe, as he should have
been a Staff, Technical or Master Sargent in 1947. A 3 striper was
called an airman 1st Class in those days.

From the information you provide I would guess that he was a member of
a bomber aircrew and flew in combat somewhere in then Asiatic region.
As a gunner on a bomber he would not normally be in line for a major
decoration as these were normally given to aircraft commanders.

His Good conduct medal indicates that he did not receive any formal
disciplinary action.

In short he sounds like a guy that did his job, didn't screw up and
lived through it. A good airman as the saying goes.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

Thanks for the breakdown

I just quoted what I read from the papers I got. He was a "Sergeant" in
the
"Army of The United States", and was discharged on Nov. 22, 1945 according
to the Certification of Military Service, NA FORM 13038 (REV. 04-01)

Is there any way I can find out what he did to get the bronze stars? I
understand a lot of records were lost in a fire, and this one has burn
marks
on it.

Steve



A bronze star on a service (campaign) medal simply means it was awarded more
than once. A "campaign" is designated by a particular time period in a
particular
place. If one was in that place during any part of a particular "campaign,"
he is
given the medal. If he was there during more than one "campaign" period, he
simply adds the stars to it.

Jerry

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:33:01 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:14:34 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:


So, when a veteran doesn't have much to say about his service, it is
for one of two reasons: either there is not much to tell or there is too
much to tell.

And it can be tough to know the difference.

Jerry
Viet-Nam Veteran


Indeed. Well said

Gunner
71-73, RVN

Gunner, how'd you guys screw that up? We had that won when I left in
'69. ...or so I was told.

--Andy Asberry--
------Texas-----

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
The rank of "Sargent" is not complete, I believe, as he should have
been a Staff, Technical or Master Sargent in 1947. A 3 striper was
called an airman 1st Class in those days.

Bruce-in-Bangkok

Bruce not quite. I was in the National Guard at the time of
the Korean war. When war broke out I was a Corporal we got
"Federalized" and at the promotion board meeting got
promoted to A1C. They had just shortly before that time
changed the rank desigantions to the Airman 3rd, 2nd, 1st
from the older ratings. This was in 1951.
Got out in Dec 53 as a s/sgt. :-)
...lew...

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:12:09 -0600, Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
The rank of "Sargent" is not complete, I believe, as he should have
been a Staff, Technical or Master Sargent in 1947. A 3 striper was
called an airman 1st Class in those days.

Bruce-in-Bangkok

Bruce not quite. I was in the National Guard at the time of
the Korean war. When war broke out I was a Corporal we got
"Federalized" and at the promotion board meeting got
promoted to A1C. They had just shortly before that time
changed the rank desigantions to the Airman 3rd, 2nd, 1st
from the older ratings. This was in 1951.
Got out in Dec 53 as a s/sgt. :-)
...lew...

Whoops, I was taught that the USAF became a separate organization in
1947 and that the "Airman" ranks dated from that time. Obviously not.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:12:09 -0600, Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
The rank of "Sargent" is not complete, I believe, as he should have
been a Staff, Technical or Master Sargent in 1947. A 3 striper was
called an airman 1st Class in those days.

Bruce-in-Bangkok

Bruce not quite. I was in the National Guard at the time of
the Korean war. When war broke out I was a Corporal we got
"Federalized" and at the promotion board meeting got
promoted to A1C. They had just shortly before that time
changed the rank desigantions to the Airman 3rd, 2nd, 1st
from the older ratings. This was in 1951.
Got out in Dec 53 as a s/sgt. :-)
...lew...

Whoops, I was taught that the USAF became a separate organization in
1947 and that the "Airman" ranks dated from that time. Obviously not.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

On my father's marker at a military cemetery, it says Sergeant, USAC.

When did the United States Air Corps change from being Army and become the
Air Force? His papers say he was in the "Army of the United States."

Steve

Army-Air corp Yes they split later but the air corp was in the army and they
had air men airman just like foot soldier Rifle man.

missile men came later. Both Air force and Army and Navy.


Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:12:09 -0600, Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
The rank of "Sargent" is not complete, I believe, as he should have
been a Staff, Technical or Master Sargent in 1947. A 3 striper was
called an airman 1st Class in those days.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
Bruce not quite. I was in the National Guard at the time of
the Korean war. When war broke out I was a Corporal we got
"Federalized" and at the promotion board meeting got
promoted to A1C. They had just shortly before that time
changed the rank desigantions to the Airman 3rd, 2nd, 1st
from the older ratings. This was in 1951.
Got out in Dec 53 as a s/sgt. :-)
...lew...

Whoops, I was taught that the USAF became a separate organization in
1947 and that the "Airman" ranks dated from that time. Obviously not.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:46:12 +0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Bruce in Bangkok quickly quoth:

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:12:09 -0600, Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
The rank of "Sargent" is not complete, I believe, as he should have
been a Staff, Technical or Master Sargent in 1947. A 3 striper was
called an airman 1st Class in those days.

Bruce-in-Bangkok

Bruce not quite. I was in the National Guard at the time of
the Korean war. When war broke out I was a Corporal we got
"Federalized" and at the promotion board meeting got
promoted to A1C. They had just shortly before that time
changed the rank desigantions to the Airman 3rd, 2nd, 1st
from the older ratings. This was in 1951.
Got out in Dec 53 as a s/sgt. :-)
...lew...

Whoops, I was taught that the USAF became a separate organization in
1947 and that the "Airman" ranks dated from that time. Obviously not.

My dad started out in the Army Air Corps, stuck with it through the
Army Air Force, and then into the U.S. Air Force. I don't recall the
years of each name.

His B-26 was shot down by Germans over France in '43 and he spent 10
months in a concentration camp.

He again flew (C-123s, I think) over VietNam at 1,000 feet in '66,
dropping crates of pigs and chickens so they could raise more food.
The animals were slaughtered the second they hit the ground. It took
3+ airmen to push a cow--harnessed to a parachute--out the open bomb
bay doors. Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

A rifle bullet came through the bottom of the craft and into his seat
bottom directly under his gonads, imbedding in the metal and leaving
him unharmed. Lucky Louis!

--
Knowledge and timber shouldn't be much used till they are seasoned.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 07:54:08 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

Thanks for the breakdown

I just quoted what I read from the papers I got. He was a "Sergeant" in the
"Army of The United States", and was discharged on Nov. 22, 1945 according
to the Certification of Military Service, NA FORM 13038 (REV. 04-01)

Is there any way I can find out what he did to get the bronze stars? I
understand a lot of records were lost in a fire, and this one has burn marks
on it.

Steve



Steve...Bronze Service Stars are unit or campaign awards.

They are not the same as The Bronze Star. Thats an individual ward
for bravery, service above an beyond and so forth. The next highest
one is the Silver Star..also an individual award.

Shrug...sometimes one or the other individual awards are given for
being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and surviving.

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:48:55 -0500, Andy Asberry
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:33:01 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:14:34 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:


So, when a veteran doesn't have much to say about his service, it is
for one of two reasons: either there is not much to tell or there is too
much to tell.

And it can be tough to know the difference.

Jerry
Viet-Nam Veteran


Indeed. Well said

Gunner
71-73, RVN

Gunner, how'd you guys screw that up? We had that won when I left in
'69. ...or so I was told.

--Andy Asberry--
------Texas-----


It WAS won when most left in late 73. The South was in full control
all the way up to the 'z

Then the Democrats cut off all war funding to the South and over the
next couple years....they simply ran out of bullets, boots and bombs.
Ultimately the well supplied NVA was able to simply walk in and take
over.

Thanks to the Democrats, all those dead and maimed were for naught.

Something..Ill never forgive them for.

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

SteveB wrote:


Thanks for the breakdown

I just quoted what I read from the papers I got. He was a "Sergeant" in the
"Army of The United States", and was discharged on Nov. 22, 1945 according
to the Certification of Military Service, NA FORM 13038 (REV. 04-01)

Is there any way I can find out what he did to get the bronze stars? I
understand a lot of records were lost in a fire, and this one has burn marks
on it.

Steve



You might try Army records in St. Louis - but they really did have a
catastrophic fire back in the 70's.

A veteran is allowed one reissue of awards and decorations.

In this case you would want the citations.

Long shot - but possibly?

Richard

Gunner Asch wrote:

Steve...Bronze Service Stars are unit or campaign awards.

They are not the same as The Bronze Star. Thats an individual ward
for bravery, service above an beyond and so forth. The next highest
one is the Silver Star..also an individual award.

Shrug...sometimes one or the other individual awards are given for
being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and surviving.


Or not.

Many have been awarded posthumously...

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:48:55 -0500, Andy Asberry
wrote:


On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:33:01 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:


On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:14:34 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:


So, when a veteran doesn't have much to say about his service, it is
for one of two reasons: either there is not much to tell or there is too
much to tell.

And it can be tough to know the difference.

Jerry
Viet-Nam Veteran


Indeed. Well said

Gunner
71-73, RVN


Gunner, how'd you guys screw that up? We had that won when I left in
'69. ...or so I was told.

--Andy Asberry--
------Texas-----



It WAS won when most left in late 73. The South was in full control
all the way up to the 'z

Then the Democrats cut off all war funding to the South and over the
next couple years....they simply ran out of bullets, boots and bombs.
Ultimately the well supplied NVA was able to simply walk in and take
over.

Thanks to the Democrats, all those dead and maimed were for naught.

Something..Ill never forgive them for.

Gunner



Well, actually, it was Walter Chronkite.

"It now seems that the war in VietNam can not be won".
Right after the '68 Tet offensive was squashed flat.

Richard

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:27:36 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:12:09 -0600, Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
The rank of "Sargent" is not complete, I believe, as he should have
been a Staff, Technical or Master Sargent in 1947. A 3 striper was
called an airman 1st Class in those days.

Bruce-in-Bangkok

Bruce not quite. I was in the National Guard at the time of
the Korean war. When war broke out I was a Corporal we got
"Federalized" and at the promotion board meeting got
promoted to A1C. They had just shortly before that time
changed the rank desigantions to the Airman 3rd, 2nd, 1st
from the older ratings. This was in 1951.
Got out in Dec 53 as a s/sgt. :-)
...lew...

Whoops, I was taught that the USAF became a separate organization in
1947 and that the "Airman" ranks dated from that time. Obviously not.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

On my father's marker at a military cemetery, it says Sergeant, USAC.

When did the United States Air Corps change from being Army and become the
Air Force? His papers say he was in the "Army of the United States."

Steve


I'm working from memory now but I believe that prior to WW-II it was
the Army Air Corps. About 1941 it became the Army Air Force and on 18
Sept 1947 the Army Air force became an independent service called the
U.S. Air Force. However, from what Lew writes, above, from 1947 until
sometime around 1950 - 1951 the new USAF used Army nomenclature for
ranks.

The statement "Army of the United States" would indicate a time before
1947 when the "Air force" stopped being a part of the Army.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:37:38 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:

SteveB wrote:


Thanks for the breakdown

I just quoted what I read from the papers I got. He was a "Sergeant" in the
"Army of The United States", and was discharged on Nov. 22, 1945 according
to the Certification of Military Service, NA FORM 13038 (REV. 04-01)

Is there any way I can find out what he did to get the bronze stars? I
understand a lot of records were lost in a fire, and this one has burn marks
on it.

Steve



You might try Army records in St. Louis - but they really did have a
catastrophic fire back in the 70's.

A veteran is allowed one reissue of awards and decorations.

In this case you would want the citations.

Long shot - but possibly?

Richard


All of the decorations you mention are "service medals", given for
being there, and I doubt that there would have been any individual
citations made. More likely simply an entry in his records jacket.
There was a section for listing decorations and service medals and
unless one received a decoration for valor, Air Medal or higher, I
think that was the only record.

By the way, there is nothing derogatory about ribbons being "Service
Ribbons", they showed that you were there . I wasn't a bit shy to wear
Korea and Vietnam service ribbons and I still think they prove a lot
more then a "went to Canada" entry in a resume.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:38:44 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Steve...Bronze Service Stars are unit or campaign awards.

They are not the same as The Bronze Star. Thats an individual ward
for bravery, service above an beyond and so forth. The next highest
one is the Silver Star..also an individual award.

Shrug...sometimes one or the other individual awards are given for
being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and surviving.


Or not.

Many have been awarded posthumously...


True indeed.


"A toast to the living, a drink to the dead

To absent friends!!"


Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned
Gunner Asch wrote on Tue, 30 Oct 2007
11:33:01 -0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:14:34 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:


So, when a veteran doesn't have much to say about his service, it is
for one of two reasons: either there is not much to tell or there is too
much to tell.

And it can be tough to know the difference.

Jerry
Viet-Nam Veteran


Indeed. Well said

Gunner
71-73, RVN

Rough rule of thumb: the more they talk about it, the less they saw.
Not a hard and fast rule, and there are exceptions. E.g., combat vets
talking to each other. The Passing of "Tribal Lore" to the next
generation. I've been told that any "sea/war story" told second or
third hand is done so because there is valuable survival information in
it.
It has taken me most of my fifty years to get more than the barest
outlines of what my Dad did to get his medals. But his response on
reading the citations after sixty years was "What a bunch of hooey! They
make it sound like I did something dangerous." Well, Dad, it was
dangerous, but you were 20 and "not stupid".

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Old farts these days - no like when I was a boy. We used to
have us Real Geezers in those days. Now, they'll let anybody
with a little gray hair be an old fart.

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:25:48 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned
Gunner Asch wrote on Tue, 30 Oct 2007
11:33:01 -0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:14:34 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:


So, when a veteran doesn't have much to say about his service, it is
for one of two reasons: either there is not much to tell or there is too
much to tell.

And it can be tough to know the difference.

Jerry
Viet-Nam Veteran


Indeed. Well said

Gunner
71-73, RVN

Rough rule of thumb: the more they talk about it, the less they saw.
Not a hard and fast rule, and there are exceptions. E.g., combat vets
talking to each other. The Passing of "Tribal Lore" to the next
generation. I've been told that any "sea/war story" told second or
third hand is done so because there is valuable survival information in
it.
It has taken me most of my fifty years to get more than the barest
outlines of what my Dad did to get his medals. But his response on
reading the citations after sixty years was "What a bunch of hooey! They
make it sound like I did something dangerous." Well, Dad, it was
dangerous, but you were 20 and "not stupid".

tschus
pyotr


I think that it is more a matter of the individual being trained for a
particular task and then performing that task. If, for example, you
have been through gunnery school and then air crew training when you
finally arrive over some hostile real estate it is just more of the
same.

I had a mate, Army Special forces, who spent three tours in Vietnam.
We had a few beers one evening and I asked him whether he was ever
scared in Vietnam. He replied that yes he had, once, when the ran into
an ambush and were pinned down on a trail in Cambodia. He said that
the other times he had been under fire he was too busy fighting back
to be scared, until it was all over.

Another friend, a C-123 pilot got about 5 air Medals for re-supplying
Special Forces camps under fire. When I asked him about it he said,
"somebody had to do it."


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:


Thanks for the breakdown

I just quoted what I read from the papers I got. He was a "Sergeant" in
the "Army of The United States", and was discharged on Nov. 22, 1945
according to the Certification of Military Service, NA FORM 13038 (REV.
04-01)

Is there any way I can find out what he did to get the bronze stars? I
understand a lot of records were lost in a fire, and this one has burn
marks on it.

Steve

You might try Army records in St. Louis - but they really did have a
catastrophic fire back in the 70's.

A veteran is allowed one reissue of awards and decorations.

In this case you would want the citations.

Long shot - but possibly?

Richard

In the letter, it is stated: "Your father is entitled to the following
awards:"

I will be in contact to see if I can get them issued and place them in a
display.

Steve

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:27:36 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:12:09 -0600, Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
The rank of "Sargent" is not complete, I believe, as he should have
been a Staff, Technical or Master Sargent in 1947. A 3 striper was
called an airman 1st Class in those days.

Bruce-in-Bangkok

Bruce not quite. I was in the National Guard at the time of
the Korean war. When war broke out I was a Corporal we got
"Federalized" and at the promotion board meeting got
promoted to A1C. They had just shortly before that time
changed the rank desigantions to the Airman 3rd, 2nd, 1st
from the older ratings. This was in 1951.
Got out in Dec 53 as a s/sgt. :-)
...lew...

Whoops, I was taught that the USAF became a separate organization in
1947 and that the "Airman" ranks dated from that time. Obviously not.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

On my father's marker at a military cemetery, it says Sergeant, USAC.

When did the United States Air Corps change from being Army and become the
Air Force? His papers say he was in the "Army of the United States."

Steve


I'm working from memory now but I believe that prior to WW-II it was
the Army Air Corps. About 1941 it became the Army Air Force and on 18
Sept 1947 the Army Air force became an independent service called the
U.S. Air Force. However, from what Lew writes, above, from 1947 until
sometime around 1950 - 1951 the new USAF used Army nomenclature for
ranks.

The statement "Army of the United States" would indicate a time before
1947 when the "Air force" stopped being a part of the Army.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

I googled it (WOW, WHAT AN IDEA!), and it was the United States Army Air
Force from 41 to 47. Previous from 26 to 41, it was the USAC, and after 47
it was the USAF.

Steve

I haven't had time to read this whole thread, so I hope I'm not
repeating anything, but you may be able to get copies of his records
from the National Personnel Records Center. Start at
http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/mil...nel/index.html and go
from there. I was able to get a lot of my dad's Army Air Corps and Army
records by simply asking. I was also able to get copies of my
grand-uncles WWI records (he was KIA in the Battle of the Meuse-Argonne
a month before the armistice was signed.... His body was never found).

Dave Young

SteveB wrote:
Got my dad's military papers back ....

flight maintenenance gunner 748

30th Bomb Gp 270th Bomb Sq

Decorations and citations: Southern Philippines Luzon New Guinea Bismarck
Archipelago Borneo Philippines Liberation Ribbon Good Conduct Ribbon World
War II Victory Medal Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with One Silver Service
Star ( A Silver Service Star is awarded in lieu of 5 Bronze Service Stars
Sharpshooter Badge with Carbine and Pistol Bars WWII Honorable Service Lapel
Button

Last rank, Sergeant, United States Air Corps
Service outside Continental US: 25 Apr 45 to 10 Nov 45

Help me understand my father, who I never understood in his life.

To me, it looks like something impressive.

He never spoke of it.

Thanks.

Steve

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:20:57 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:


Thanks for the breakdown

I just quoted what I read from the papers I got. He was a "Sergeant" in
the "Army of The United States", and was discharged on Nov. 22, 1945
according to the Certification of Military Service, NA FORM 13038 (REV.
04-01)

Is there any way I can find out what he did to get the bronze stars? I
understand a lot of records were lost in a fire, and this one has burn
marks on it.

Steve

You might try Army records in St. Louis - but they really did have a
catastrophic fire back in the 70's.

A veteran is allowed one reissue of awards and decorations.

In this case you would want the citations.

Long shot - but possibly?

Richard

In the letter, it is stated: "Your father is entitled to the following
awards:"

I will be in contact to see if I can get them issued and place them in a
display.

Steve


Here is the page you need.

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/mil...xt-of-kin.html

--Andy Asberry--
------Texas-----

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:37:38 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:

SteveB wrote:

Thanks for the breakdown

I just quoted what I read from the papers I got. He was a "Sergeant" in the
"Army of The United States", and was discharged on Nov. 22, 1945 according
to the Certification of Military Service, NA FORM 13038 (REV. 04-01)

Is there any way I can find out what he did to get the bronze stars? I
understand a lot of records were lost in a fire, and this one has burn marks
on it.

You might try Army records in St. Louis - but they really did have a
catastrophic fire back in the 70's.

A veteran is allowed one reissue of awards and decorations.

What about if th' vet has passed on and one of his children wanted
those? My wife's Dad was awarded two purple hearts, among other
awards and decorations, from th' Chosin Reservoir in Korea, Nov. -
Dec. 1950.

He was also a Sargent in th' US Army.

Snarl

wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:37:38 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:


SteveB wrote:

Thanks for the breakdown

I just quoted what I read from the papers I got. He was a "Sergeant" in the
"Army of The United States", and was discharged on Nov. 22, 1945 according
to the Certification of Military Service, NA FORM 13038 (REV. 04-01)

Is there any way I can find out what he did to get the bronze stars? I
understand a lot of records were lost in a fire, and this one has burn marks
on it.

You might try Army records in St. Louis - but they really did have a
catastrophic fire back in the 70's.

A veteran is allowed one reissue of awards and decorations.


What about if th' vet has passed on and one of his children wanted
those? My wife's Dad was awarded two purple hearts, among other
awards and decorations, from th' Chosin Reservoir in Korea, Nov. -
Dec. 1950.

He was also a Sargent in th' US Army.

Snarl


Do you know he hisory of that campaign?

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:07:12 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:37:38 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:


SteveB wrote:

Thanks for the breakdown

I just quoted what I read from the papers I got. He was a "Sergeant" in the
"Army of The United States", and was discharged on Nov. 22, 1945 according
to the Certification of Military Service, NA FORM 13038 (REV. 04-01)

Is there any way I can find out what he did to get the bronze stars? I
understand a lot of records were lost in a fire, and this one has burn marks
on it.

You might try Army records in St. Louis - but they really did have a
catastrophic fire back in the 70's.

A veteran is allowed one reissue of awards and decorations.


What about if th' vet has passed on and one of his children wanted
those? My wife's Dad was awarded two purple hearts, among other
awards and decorations, from th' Chosin Reservoir in Korea, Nov. -
Dec. 1950.

He was also a Sargent in th' US Army.

Snarl

Do you know he hisory of that campaign?

Yes I do. Living hell and he was one of th' few lucky ones who left
that place alive. Albeit he eventually lost all of his fingers due to
frostbite, on top of taking shrapnel from a grenade and then gettin'
shot and goin' back to fight after both. Dad never talked about it.

He was th' Treasurer of th' Chosin Few 'til he died from a
misdiagnosis from Madigan hospital about 14 years ago. That was 6
months after he retired. Damn shame, that. He was also instrumental
in getting th' Korean Conflict memorial in CA funded. One hell of a
man!

My wife & I would love to get a reissue of his awards and decorations.
Not sure how to go about that tho.

Sgt. Victor Stepper (Ret) R.I.P.

Snarl

"SteveB" wrote:

To me, it looks like something impressive.

He never spoke of it.

I suspect he did what a lot of guys did at the time and he wanted to forget
about it afterwards as to not relive some experiences.

His country called, he fulfilled his obligation as a citizen and didn't
screw up.

An Honorable Man and Patriot.

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:06:15 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:07:12 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:37:38 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:


SteveB wrote:

Thanks for the breakdown

I just quoted what I read from the papers I got. He was a "Sergeant" in the
"Army of The United States", and was discharged on Nov. 22, 1945 according
to the Certification of Military Service, NA FORM 13038 (REV. 04-01)

Is there any way I can find out what he did to get the bronze stars? I
understand a lot of records were lost in a fire, and this one has burn marks
on it.

You might try Army records in St. Louis - but they really did have a
catastrophic fire back in the 70's.

A veteran is allowed one reissue of awards and decorations.


What about if th' vet has passed on and one of his children wanted
those? My wife's Dad was awarded two purple hearts, among other
awards and decorations, from th' Chosin Reservoir in Korea, Nov. -
Dec. 1950.

He was also a Sargent in th' US Army.

Snarl

Do you know he hisory of that campaign?

Yes I do. Living hell and he was one of th' few lucky ones who left
that place alive. Albeit he eventually lost all of his fingers due to
frostbite, on top of taking shrapnel from a grenade and then gettin'
shot and goin' back to fight after both. Dad never talked about it.

He was th' Treasurer of th' Chosin Few 'til he died from a
misdiagnosis from Madigan hospital about 14 years ago. That was 6
months after he retired. Damn shame, that. He was also instrumental
in getting th' Korean Conflict memorial in CA funded. One hell of a
man!

My wife & I would love to get a reissue of his awards and decorations.
Not sure how to go about that tho.

Sgt. Victor Stepper (Ret) R.I.P.

Snarl

I sound like that AFLAC duck.

Here is the page you need.

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/mil...xt-of-kin.html

--Andy Asberry--
------Texas-----

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:04:15 -0500, Andy Asberry
wrote:

snip

My wife & I would love to get a reissue of his awards and decorations.
Not sure how to go about that tho.

Sgt. Victor Stepper (Ret) R.I.P.

Snarl

I sound like that AFLAC duck.

Here is the page you need.

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/mil...xt-of-kin.html

Thank you Sir!

Th' wheels are in motion, now for th' hurry up and wait part g.
It'll give me some time to make a proper display box. This made our
day.

Snarl

After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned
Bruce in Bangkok wrote on Wed, 31 Oct 2007
20:34:23 +0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:25:48 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned
Gunner Asch wrote on Tue, 30 Oct 2007
11:33:01 -0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:14:34 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:


So, when a veteran doesn't have much to say about his service, it is
for one of two reasons: either there is not much to tell or there is too
much to tell.

And it can be tough to know the difference.

Jerry
Viet-Nam Veteran


Indeed. Well said

Gunner
71-73, RVN

Rough rule of thumb: the more they talk about it, the less they saw.
Not a hard and fast rule, and there are exceptions. E.g., combat vets
talking to each other. The Passing of "Tribal Lore" to the next
generation. I've been told that any "sea/war story" told second or
third hand is done so because there is valuable survival information in
it.
It has taken me most of my fifty years to get more than the barest
outlines of what my Dad did to get his medals. But his response on
reading the citations after sixty years was "What a bunch of hooey! They
make it sound like I did something dangerous." Well, Dad, it was
dangerous, but you were 20 and "not stupid".

tschus
pyotr


I think that it is more a matter of the individual being trained for a
particular task and then performing that task. If, for example, you
have been through gunnery school and then air crew training when you
finally arrive over some hostile real estate it is just more of the
same.

I've been told that the flight surgeons wire up a bunch of Naval
Aviators flying from Yankee Station and found the launch only slightly
more stressful than flying over the target, but the landing was way more
stressful.
You do what you trained to do, but in a sensible manner. I think in
my Dad's case, something had to be done, so he did it. It was risky,
sure, but anything is risky in an artillery barrage. But if it had been
"dangerous", he probably would have stayed where he was. He was not a
reckless youth, but an experienced Combat Infantry Soldier. (Tongue
somewhat in cheek.)

I had a mate, Army Special forces, who spent three tours in Vietnam.
We had a few beers one evening and I asked him whether he was ever
scared in Vietnam. He replied that yes he had, once, when the ran into
an ambush and were pinned down on a trail in Cambodia. He said that
the other times he had been under fire he was too busy fighting back
to be scared, until it was all over.

Another friend, a C-123 pilot got about 5 air Medals for re-supplying
Special Forces camps under fire. When I asked him about it he said,
"somebody had to do it."

Yeah, that seems to be the way of it. "Somebody had to do it, and I
was the one there."
--
pyotr filipivich
"Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. "
Lucius Annaeus Seneca, circa 45 AD
(A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.)

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 17:23:42 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:04:15 -0500, Andy Asberry
wrote:

snip

My wife & I would love to get a reissue of his awards and decorations.
Not sure how to go about that tho.

Sgt. Victor Stepper (Ret) R.I.P.

Snarl

I sound like that AFLAC duck.

Here is the page you need.

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/mil...xt-of-kin.html

Thank you Sir!

Th' wheels are in motion, now for th' hurry up and wait part g.
It'll give me some time to make a proper display box. This made our
day.

Snarl

When you get the orders authorizing the award, there will likely be
many other names on it. Try to contact the old unit association. They
may need a copy of the orders to help find other members of the unit.

Just getting a correct name is sometimes all that is needed to find
these lost brothers. A Jimmy is not always a James. Many only went by
their middle name.

I've been doing this for about five years. We've found over 1400 of
1800. More than 200 deceased. Don't put it off.

--Andy Asberry--
------Texas-----